The plans of God

[edge]

Originally Posted by Cantab

Thanks for your reply, Edge. As you can imagine, it has raised more questions in my mind...

It is a large subject matter to contemplate.

Quote:

I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that freewill only pertains to whether or not we are Christian (or pro-Christian / anti-Christian)? That's not the definition of freewill you've been using throughout this thread, so am I misreading you?

No it doesn’t just pertain to belief in God or not, it pertains to everything we do and how we act through life.

Quote:

Also, there are people who are either pro Christian or anti-Christian. There are people who have never even heard of Christianity. Further, I'm an atheist, but I'm not anti-Christian. You seem to have presented a false dichotomy as there are more than just those two categories of people.

You might be the exception to the rule especially in this forum.
I have many friends who are atheistic.

Quote:

If your god reveals himself to someone, I'd say it definitely will interfere with their freewill (especially if freewill is defined as per your first paragraph). Their right to freely believe or not believe will have been overridden. This contradicts what you have said above.

It won’t interfere as even a Christian can fall away at any time into atheism. If God gave us ultimate proof there would be no atheists, right now even those that have been shown can’t use their personal proof or any other proof because faith is still in place to test all that entire or are born here. This would interfere with his plan. I would say there is a limit to how many souls will come into being here till the last judgment and the second appearance of Christ physically on this planet, the last ones to be tested here. The promise is that before we destroy the planet completely and cause all of our extinction he will return.
All we have are the convictions of stories and with some the stories are similar or the same with those who believe

Quote:

I'm asking your opinion on the conflict between your god's plan and our supposedly God-given freewill. I'm not asking about what levels of stupidity our freewill may lead us to, or what restrictions our own stupidity may place on our freewill.
Does freewill only relate to our freedom to believe / not believe?

This is related to you last statement below also.
I was trying to show that restrictions to our freewill that are destructive, their control, powers are thrown upon us by the very belief that God doesn’t exist by people who apparently don’t believe in God but the almighty dollar by selling us their belief to us through our food because of their greed and non-belief that there will be no judgment in the end, that this life is it. It’s all about deception. There has never been a shortage of food in this age just a shortage of compassion to distribute and spend money to feed the whole world.
So when the say we are genetically engineering food to feed billons that’s a lie. We have had the capacity to feed the whole world for years now. But unfortunately no one wants to spend the money to do so.

Quote:

Does your god restrict our freewill in any way (other than revealing himself to people and thus removing their free will to disbelieve in him) when it conflicts with his plan?

No, as I said even I can fall back into non-belief because there is a balance of truth and non-truth belief non-belief. Been there and done that, but I won’t fall back again.

Quote:

I'll leave the stuff about genetically modified foods because, while interesting, it's not related to my question.

Everything is related to your questions.
Here is my point: People in power, wealth, do not want you to have freewill in your decision to buy food that has been genetically altered by not listing that fact on food labels and they did this by taking people that worked for these corporations and inserting them into the very agencies that are supposed to protect us from these hideous acts.
I asked the important questions that never get answered in here like: Would you feed your babies formulas that have been G.A. with only jokes in response to my query.
I am not your enemy just because I believe in God. Maybe at this point you could answer that for me because no matter what our beliefs I am on your side in the way of deceptions by others that have no beliefs that have the power to do the right thing but choose monetary reward over human compassion God doesn’t take your freewill away men do. Maybe you can answer that question for me? I know that I would want to have the choice like other countries have implemented.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by edge

even a Christian can fall away rise at any time into atheism.

ftfy

[Mashuna]

Originally Posted by edge

People in power, wealth, do not want you to have freewill in your decision to buy food that has been genetically altered by not listing that fact on food labels and they did this by taking people that worked for these corporations and inserting them into the very agencies that are supposed to protect us from these hideous acts.

You know that's not the type of free will that people are asking you about, right?

[joobz]

Originally Posted by edge

It won’t interfere as even a Christian can fall away at any time into atheism. If God gave us ultimate proof there would be no atheists, right now even those that have been shown can’t use their personal proof or any other proof because faith is still in place to test all that entire or are born here.

translation:
God plays favorites.

Originally Posted by edge

This would interfere with his plan.

So he doesn't permit things that would interfere with his plan.
So the torment of children with disease and pain is part of his plan.. got it.

[Paulhoff]

It is so very funny that anyone could think that the god of the bible has anything to do with all this.

Paul

[joobz]

Originally Posted by edge

Here is my point: People in power, wealth, do not want you to have freewill in your decision to buy food that has been genetically altered by not listing that fact on food labels and they did this by taking people that worked for these corporations and inserting them into the very agencies that are supposed to protect us from these hideous acts.

GA isn't hideous and it would be fairly arbitrary application of the labeling.

Originally Posted by edge

I asked the important questions that never get answered in here like: Would you feed your babies formulas that have been G.A.

yes.

Originally Posted by edge

Maybe at this point you could answer that for me because no matter what our beliefs I am on your side in the way of deceptions by others that have no beliefs that have the power to do the right thing but choose monetary reward over human compassion

this is a train wreck of a sentence.

Originally Posted by edge

God doesn’t take your freewill away men do.

Are you claiming that god doesn't oppose same sex marriage and only men do?

Originally Posted by edge

Maybe you can answer that question for me? I know that I would want to have the choice like other countries have implemented.
[/color][/i]

What question?

[Nay_Sayer]

Deleted

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by Paulhoff

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/i..._wallpaper.jpg

It is so very funny that anyone could think that the god of the bible has anything to do with all this.

Paul

I love photos of space. They actually started me on my path to non belief.

[Rincewind]

Originally Posted by Paulhoff

http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/i..._wallpaper.jpg

It is so very funny that anyone could think that the god of the bible has anything to do with all this.

Paul

Thank you for that.

To say it's stunning is an understatement....

[edge]

Originally Posted by joobz

yes.




What question?

Like the one you copied and pasted?
It's in your own post?

Quote:

Originally Posted by edge
I asked the important questions that never get answered in here like: Would you feed your babies formulas that have been G.A. (Genetically Altered), G.A..

What is it that you don’t see or get? Genetically Altered, G.A.??? If your answer is yes don’t complain about what happens to your child. Most of these G.A. plants are roundup ready which means they won’t die when the herbicide is sprayed on the plants but the weeds keep building up resistance so that they have to spray more and more of it on the fields. What do you think that will cause? Will it cause smarter children or a smarter parent, who is causing this man or God? The weeds have never been a big issue before. Poisoning us and our children is.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by edge

Like the one you copied and pasted?
It's in your own post?


What is it that you don’t see or get? Genetically Altered, G.A.??? If your answer is yes don’t complain about what happens to your child. Most of these G.A. plants are roundup ready which means they won’t die when the herbicide is sprayed on the plants but the weeds keep building up resistance so that they have to spray more and more of it on the fields. What do you think that will cause? Will it cause smarter children or a smarter parent, who is causing this man or God? The weeds have never been a big issue before. Poisoning us and our children is.

Where can I see these cowboys rounding up plants?

[joobz]

Originally Posted by edge

What is it that you don’t see or get? Genetically Altered, G.A.???

Yes. I eat genetically altered food every day. All day.
Just as everyone else since the dawn of man has.

Originally Posted by edge

If your answer is yes don’t complain about what happens to your child.

I will let the dripping malice contained in that statement remain for all to see.

Originally Posted by edge

Most of these G.A. plants are roundup ready which means they won’t die when the herbicide is sprayed on the plants but the weeds keep building up resistance so that they have to spray more and more of it on the fields. What do you think that will cause?

Depends.

Originally Posted by edge

..., who is causing this man or God?

As you have stated, he doesn't permit things that would interfere with his plan. Hence, the torment of children with disease and pain is part of his plan.. got it.

Man did not invent polio, small pox, measles, HPV.
Man invented the vaccines that protect children from these deadly diseases.
For millenia, God was happy to let children die from disease, famine, pestilence.

Why do you defend such evil?

Originally Posted by edge

The weeds have never been a big issue before.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by edge

The weeds have never been a big issue before.

We talk about nothing else around these parts. Weeds, weeds weeds, that's all you ever hear.

[Nay_Sayer]

Originally Posted by edge

Like the one you copied and pasted?
It's in your own post?


What is it that you don’t see or get? Genetically Altered, G.A.??? If your answer is yes don’t complain about what happens to your child. Most of these G.A. plants are roundup ready which means they won’t die when the herbicide is sprayed on the plants but the weeds keep building up resistance so that they have to spray more and more of it on the fields. What do you think that will cause? Will it cause smarter children or a smarter parent, who is causing this man or God? The weeds have never been a big issue before. Poisoning us and our children is.

God, Bcause he gave us knowledge of how to alter said plants and food and thus posion our children.

Hey explaining away everything to god is easier then i thought.

[Elizabeth I]

Originally Posted by dafydd

We talk about nothing else around these parts. Weeds, weeds weeds, that's all you ever hear.

You sure it's not, "Weed, weed, weed"?

[Akhenaten]

Originally Posted by dafydd

We talk about nothing else around these parts. Weeds, weeds weeds, that's all you ever hear.

We have far more important things to deal with down here.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

You sure it's not, "Weed, weed, weed"?

[edge]

Quote:

Genetically modified grains and other plants have no nutrition value and become part poison- image by Max Planck Institute of Molecular Plant Physiology Bioinformatics Group




With "Roundup ready" genetically modified grain seeds, Roundup becomes a part of the plant's DNA. Weed killer is a part of what the plant "is." So now, the plant is not only stripped of its micro-nutrients in a process known as chelation (note: chelation is beneficial when applied properly), the seed becomes part poison. When the plant grows from the seed, the plant is almost completely empty of any nutrition and is part poison.

Animals and humans are eating this.

What have we begun to see?


Botulism in feedlot cattle, because the Roundup in the grain is killing the healthy gut bacteria
A new fungus in alfalfa is causing Sudden Death Syndrome, miscarriages and other fertility issues in cattle
An entirely new microorganism is also causing an alarming abortion rate in several kinds of livestock. It's causing sterility in bulls. If this continues, it will have a real impact on the amount of commercially available meat in grocery stores
An alarming increase in miscarriages and fertility issues in the US over the past ten years
Soil ecology, plant ecology, microbial ecology, and intestinal ecology in animals and humans are all being compromised by the deadly pathogens now being created from glyphosate
Salmonella outbreaks in egg farms have increased
GMO foods are being linked to autism

From here:http://bluebonnetnaturalhealingthera...seeds-are.html
This isn't counting the pesticides, and sure we have no choice almost everything we are eating and including drinking with corn syrup is tainted.

[Helen]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

You sure it's not, "Weed, weed, weed"?

My thoughts exactly.

Don't you find it at all strange, edge, that child mortality rates were much higher before pesticides and corn syrup?

[edge]

Originally Posted by joobz

Yes. I eat genetically altered food every day. All day.
Just as everyone else since the dawn of man has.

Yes this is the only thing you got semi-right.
We have been doing this for a great while but it has been through natural selection not Gene manipulation by inserting e-coli, antibiotics, plus genes from viruses, and bacteria and not to mention the poison in those genes.
So in this way it becomes part of those plants and as I said they want to insert a terminator gene which makes the seeds that food plants produce sterile so that they have a monopoly. So all the food that we have worked hard to get today, is eliminated. Got it? Somehow you think this is a good thing go and figure?

[MarkCorrigan]

Originally Posted by edge

[i][color="DarkRed"]Right then... by your statement there are no choices to make in life?

Check the free will thread that's just been started.

[edge]

Originally Posted by Helen

My thoughts exactly.

Don't you find it at all strange, edge, that child mortality rates were much higher before pesticides and corn syrup?

Ya ain't seen nothing yet.
Europe is going to wait and see what happens to our children for ten years before they implement what we are doing.
Smart move.


http://www.chem-tox.com/pesticides/

[joobz]

Originally Posted by edge

Yes this is the only thing you got semi-right.
We have been doing this for a great while but it has been through natural selection not Gene manipulation by inserting e-coli, antibiotics, plus genes from viruses, and bacteria and not to mention the poison in those genes.
So in this way it becomes part of those plants and as I said they want to insert a terminator gene which makes the seeds that food plants produce sterile so that they have a monopoly. So all the food that we have worked hard to get today, is eliminated. Got it? Somehow you think this is a good thing go and figure?

Why does it matter how the genese get there?
further, you still havnt explained how this violates gods plan.

[Paulhoff]

Bluebonnet Natural Healing Therapy

Oh please..................

and she doesn't make money with this, she is so pure.

Do you in anyone edge think that apples etc have never been changed by man before GM.


Paul

[Halfcentaur]

Originally Posted by AdMan

I believe that was Ali, not edge. edge wanted to apply for the MDC by dowsing.

Ah, thanks.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by edge

Yes this is the only thing you got semi-right.
We have been doing this for a great while but it has been through natural selection not Gene manipulation by inserting e-coli, antibiotics, plus genes from viruses, and bacteria and not to mention the poison in those genes.
So in this way it becomes part of those plants and as I said they want to insert a terminator gene which makes the seeds that food plants produce sterile so that they have a monopoly. So all the food that we have worked hard to get today, is eliminated. Got it? Somehow you think this is a good thing go and figure?

So now natural selection is cross-breeding?

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by AdMan

I believe that was Ali, not edge. edge wanted to apply for the MDC by dowsing.

Stopped by the fact that edge cannot dowse.

[tsig]

Originally Posted by edge

Yes this is the only thing you got semi-right.
We have been doing this for a great while but it has been through natural selection not Gene manipulation by inserting e-coli, antibiotics, plus genes from viruses, and bacteria and not to mention the poison in those genes.
So in this way it becomes part of those plants and as I said they want to insert a terminator gene which makes the seeds that food plants produce sterile so that they have a monopoly. So all the food that we have worked hard to get today, is eliminated. Got it? Somehow you think this is a good thing go and figure?

What's unnatural about Gene manipulation?

[Elizabeth I]

Originally Posted by tsig

What's unnatural about Gene manipulation?

I guess it depends on how Gene gets manipulated.

[AdMan]

Originally Posted by dafydd

Stopped by the fact that edge cannot dowse.

Well, anyone can dowse. Just not successfully.

Originally Posted by Shakespeare

GLENDOWER

I can call spirits from the vasty deep.

HOTSPUR

Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them?

[edge]

Originally Posted by joobz

Why does it matter how the genese get there?
further, you still havnt explained how this violates gods plan.

Read the links I posted.

[edge]

Originally Posted by Paulhoff

Bluebonnet Natural Healing Therapy

Oh please..................

and she doesn't make money with this, she is so pure.

Do you in anyone edge think that apples etc have never been changed by man before GM.


Paul

Wow this is just beneath me for a response.

[edge]

Originally Posted by dafydd

So now natural selection is cross-breeding?

Same as Paul.

[edge]

Originally Posted by dafydd

Stopped by the fact that edge cannot dowse.

Off topic!

[edge]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

I guess it depends on how Gene gets manipulated.

Hints of perversion and off topic.

[edge]

Originally Posted by AdMan

Well, anyone can dowse. Just not successfully.

Same old crap.

[edge]

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Check the free will thread that's just been started.

I did and thanks, finally something relevant.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by edge

Same as Paul.

Above you is the correct phrase. How is the reality TV gold dowsing going? Are you a millionaire yet?

[dafydd]

So we can conclude that this god (edge is not specific about which one) has no plans?

[Elizabeth I]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth I

I guess it depends on how Gene gets manipulated.

Originally Posted by edge

Hints of perversion and off topic.

Wow, who knew the JREF would turn out to be a Rorschach blot? "Hints of perversion"? Really?