The plans of God - Page 7

Toontown · 26th November 2011, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

It means Humanity is a vehicle for the spirit of God. Human bodies are like masks, costumes for God. Vessels. Temples. All the world's a stage, as the Bard said.

If that were true, you wouldn't know it. Knowing it messes up the whole effect.

TheRedWorm · 26th November 2011, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

It means Humanity is a vehicle for the spirit of God. Human bodies are like masks, costumes for God. Vessels. Temples. All the world's a stage, as the Bard said.

Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?

Resume · 26th November 2011, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?

It wouldn't. This just further demonstrates the petty nature of man made gods. No imagination.

Ichneumonwasp · 26th November 2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

If taken at face value, the Bible convincingly shows that God the Father is all powerful and that He fully intends to bring His plan to a successful conclusion, despite the best efforts of those in the physical and spiritual realms. Therefore, what we see taking place in the world cannot be God scrambling to make the best of a bad situation, but rather God's original plan unfolding. But, as strange as it seems when viewed logically in the light of Scripture, this obvious conclusion that God the Father is in total control of all things is not acknowledged by most who profess to worship Him.

The reason most have concluded that God is NOT in absolute control is because they have accepted the idea that He has given His creation "free will." Even if the Eternal Father wants to save all of mankind (I Tim. 2:4), many believe that He can't because they have been taught that God will not force anyone to be saved against their will. Effectively, the common belief is that God has ceded His sovereignty to His creation. Therefore, the creation will determine the outcome of the divine plan, not God.

The Father may not want anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance (II Pet. 3:9), but according to the prevailing view, God will NOT get what He desires. Because it is thought that He has given man the "free will" to choose life or death, some will choose NOT to be saved. In this warped scenario, the choices of mortal men are allowed to override the outcome desired by the immortal God.

Yet does this understanding square with what the Bible says? Let's see what the Scriptures teach about God's plan for ALL mankind:

JOHN 12:32 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [helkuso] ALL people to myself." (NRSV)

In this statement, Messiah Yeshua gives us a glimpse into what God planned to accomplish through the sacrifice of His Son. It's clear from the next verse (John 12:33) that the phrase "lifted up" was a reference to Yeshua's impending crucifixion. The Messiah plainly understood that his sacrificial death was a necessary part of God's plan which would eventually lead to ALL mankind accepting him as their Lord ("Master"). Paul expands on the words of Yeshua to confirm the end result of his atoning death:

PHILIPPIANS 2:8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death — even death on a cross! 9 As a result God exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee will bow — in heaven and on earth and under the earth — 11 and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (NET)
Yeshua's ability to put aside his own desires and do the will of the Father resulted in God exalting him above all things except Himself (I Cor. 15:27). In the end, the entire creation will bow to Yeshua and confess that he is Lord. This outcome will bring glory to God the Father, because it will signal the successful completion of this phase of His plan.

TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of ALL men, (RSV)

Actually re-quoted by Edge. In light of the problem of evil, do you actually believe what is quoted above?

Limbo · 26th November 2011, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?

Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.

Twiler · 26th November 2011, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God is a projection of the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' in Hinduism and call the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they play out in the field of time. The play is the thing.

How do you reconcile this view with the depiction of God in the bible?

Limbo · 26th November 2011, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Twiler

How do you reconcile this view with the depiction of God in the bible?

By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2

dafydd · 26th November 2011, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2

You are full of of yourself, for no reason that I can see.

Twiler · 26th November 2011, 03:57 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2

What does exoteric mean?

Complexity · 26th November 2011, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Twiler

What does exoteric mean?

Nothing interesting.

He's using the term in an attempt to sound super-duper-sophisticated.

It didn't work.

Resume · 26th November 2011, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2

That didn't answer the question.

Resume · 26th November 2011, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Twiler

What does exoteric mean?

Out there, basically. As opposed to the gods and goddesses some see in their minds: Esoteric. It's all very spiritual and takes a lot of reading and self-congratulation.

Elizabeth I · 26th November 2011, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by edge

There's been some intresting developments in what we know and what they recently found.
All these new finds re-enforce it seems, what we have so far.

But just like the Dead Sea scrolls somebody will suppress the information for 40 years as they did with that discovery.
In that amount of time there's no telling what will be suppressed.

What the hell do you mean, it will be suppressed? It's in the Daily Mail and on the Internet. True or false, I think it's out there. Hard to put that genie back in the bottle.

Originally Posted by edge

http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery

I think this hits the nail on the head.
See you'll also be saved.
This will be my last post.
For now.

That sounds remarkably like a threat.

Originally Posted by Limbo

Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.

You're just saying stuff. There's no evidence for any of it, and there's only one answer to assertions like this:

Limbo · 26th November 2011, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Twiler

What does exoteric mean?

If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.

Elizabeth I · 26th November 2011, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the soft candy.

Again, you're just saying stuff.

Resume · 26th November 2011, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.

http://www.centerforsacredsciences.o...s_a2_350px.jpg

I think tootsie pops are the perfect analogy. Something for the kids while the adults enjoy some tiramasu or English toffee.

Mr. Scott · 26th November 2011, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.

Limbo, tell us something, anything at all, that demonstrates that all this is not just happening inside your brain.

TheGoldcountry · 26th November 2011, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Limbo

If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.

http://www.centerforsacredsciences.o...s_a2_350px.jpg

I have a pretty good idea I know what flavor this particular Tootsie Pop tastes like, and it ain't fruity (well, not the good kind of fruity, anyway.)

Robrob · 26th November 2011, 11:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

But the idea that Christianity is monotheistic is a fraud. Aside from top God, there are lots of lesser Gods comparable to the pantheistic Gods of ancient Rome and Greece. All these angels and devils and Satan, how different are they than the gods of pantheistic religions? And in ancient Rome, royals were expected to be promoted after death to Gods themselves. How different is that from being promoted to a Saint in the Catholic religion? The only difference is they don't use the G word for them.

Don't forget the biggest "little g" god of all Catholicism, Mary!

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 12:34 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Scott

Limbo, tell us something, anything at all, that demonstrates that all this is not just happening inside your brain.

This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.

Twiler · 27th November 2011, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.

To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.

Wow really? No I'm not trying to make up my own religion. I'm a Christian Mystic. My exegesis is based on studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, esoterica, parapsychology, and based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.

Twiler · 27th November 2011, 01:09 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

Wow really? No I'm not trying to make up my own religion. I'm a Christian Mystic. My exegesis is based on studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, esoterica, parapsychology, and based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.

I don't think that you yourself have done that, but I think that at some point, someone has put their own ideas into the mix.

How do you define a christian?

Leumas · 27th November 2011, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.

It is like a garbage dump.... new garbage is piled on top of old rubbish.

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 01:44 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

I don't think that you yourself have done that, but I think that at some point, someone has put their own ideas into the mix.

Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street.

Quote:

How do you define a christian?

Someone who professes to a Christian creed.

Twiler · 27th November 2011, 01:47 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street.

Someone who professes to a Christian creed.

And how do you define a Christian creed?

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

And how do you define a Christian creed?

Creed \'kreed\

[ME crede, from OE creeda, from Latin credo ("I believe" the first word of the Apostles' and Nicene creeds), from credere to believe, trust, entrust; akin to OIr cretid "he believes"]

1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2: a set of fundamental beliefs
3: a guiding principle

Twiler · 27th November 2011, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

Creed \'kreed\

[ME crede, from OE creeda, from Latin credo ("I believe" the first word of the Apostles' and Nicene creeds), from credere to believe, trust, entrust; akin to OIr cretid "he believes"]

1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2: a set of fundamental beliefs
3: a guiding principle

But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?

Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol

Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions.

The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order.

Twiler · 27th November 2011, 03:07 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol

Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions.

The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order.

I don't think you're even trying to answer the question.

punshhh · 27th November 2011, 03:12 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.

I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people.

Really he is not making it up.

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 03:13 AM

Originally Posted by Twiler

I don't think you're even trying to answer the question.

*sigh*

Fine. I'll answer your pointless question.

Quote:

But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?

Yeah, sure. What's your point?

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people.

Really he is not making it up.

THANKS!

Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.

punshhh · 27th November 2011, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

THANKS!

Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.

Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature

Limbo · 27th November 2011, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature

Yeah

Twiler · 27th November 2011, 04:29 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

*sigh*

Fine. I'll answer your pointless question.

Yeah, sure. What's your point?

Do you mean that belief in any of them defines a christian?

The point I'm trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be much similarity between your beliefs and what you describe as the beliefs of the non-mystic christians. I think that you're trying to have your cake and eat it, having your own beliefs while still maintaining a connection to a larger community.

It sounds elitist as well.

Mr. Scott · 27th November 2011, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.

Eliminate that, what's only happening in your brain, and what do you have left?

dafydd · 27th November 2011, 05:22 AM

Originally Posted by Limbo

This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.

I beg to differ.

Resume · 27th November 2011, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature

And the glorious lint in one's navel.

edge · 27th November 2011, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

Without humans there is no god.

I can't resist!
You say, “ without humans there is no God.”
I say, “Without humans there is no science.”
You guys got some double standards there bud.
So you can dig up a bone and say here is history, and a known fact!
But at the same time when a find like this is made it's not?
You know the only difference between you and I is God, do you get that?
You can't fool yourself forever.

26th November 2011, 01:54 PM	#241
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,555	Originally Posted by Limbo It means Humanity is a vehicle for the spirit of God. Human bodies are like masks, costumes for God. Vessels. Temples. All the world's a stage, as the Bard said. If that were true, you wouldn't know it. Knowing it messes up the whole effect.
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,555

26th November 2011, 02:29 PM	#242
TheRedWorm I AM the Red Worm! Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Body: Michigan, Heart: Chicago Posts: 3,886	Originally Posted by Limbo It means Humanity is a vehicle for the spirit of God. Human bodies are like masks, costumes for God. Vessels. Temples. All the world's a stage, as the Bard said. Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?
	__________________ See I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve. -Joker Working them to death is murder. Making them live like pigs and dying from disease is murder. Shooting them next to a ditch is murder. Digging them up and burning them to hide your murder, is extra credit evil. -beachnut

26th November 2011, 02:33 PM	#243
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017	Originally Posted by TheRedWorm Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance? It wouldn't. This just further demonstrates the petty nature of man made gods. No imagination.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017

26th November 2011, 02:49 PM	#244
Ichneumonwasp Guest Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,221	Quote: If taken at face value, the Bible convincingly shows that God the Father is all powerful and that He fully intends to bring His plan to a successful conclusion, despite the best efforts of those in the physical and spiritual realms. Therefore, what we see taking place in the world cannot be God scrambling to make the best of a bad situation, but rather God's original plan unfolding. But, as strange as it seems when viewed logically in the light of Scripture, this obvious conclusion that God the Father is in total control of all things is not acknowledged by most who profess to worship Him. The reason most have concluded that God is NOT in absolute control is because they have accepted the idea that He has given His creation "free will." Even if the Eternal Father wants to save all of mankind (I Tim. 2:4), many believe that He can't because they have been taught that God will not force anyone to be saved against their will. Effectively, the common belief is that God has ceded His sovereignty to His creation. Therefore, the creation will determine the outcome of the divine plan, not God. The Father may not want anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance (II Pet. 3:9), but according to the prevailing view, God will NOT get what He desires. Because it is thought that He has given man the "free will" to choose life or death, some will choose NOT to be saved. In this warped scenario, the choices of mortal men are allowed to override the outcome desired by the immortal God. Yet does this understanding square with what the Bible says? Let's see what the Scriptures teach about God's plan for ALL mankind: JOHN 12:32 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [helkuso] ALL people to myself." (NRSV) In this statement, Messiah Yeshua gives us a glimpse into what God planned to accomplish through the sacrifice of His Son. It's clear from the next verse (John 12:33) that the phrase "lifted up" was a reference to Yeshua's impending crucifixion. The Messiah plainly understood that his sacrificial death was a necessary part of God's plan which would eventually lead to ALL mankind accepting him as their Lord ("Master"). Paul expands on the words of Yeshua to confirm the end result of his atoning death: PHILIPPIANS 2:8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death — even death on a cross! 9 As a result God exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee will bow — in heaven and on earth and under the earth — 11 and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (NET) Yeshua's ability to put aside his own desires and do the will of the Father resulted in God exalting him above all things except Himself (I Cor. 15:27). In the end, the entire creation will bow to Yeshua and confess that he is Lord. This outcome will bring glory to God the Father, because it will signal the successful completion of this phase of His plan. TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of ALL men, (RSV) Actually re-quoted by Edge. In light of the problem of evil, do you actually believe what is quoted above?
Ichneumonwasp Guest Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 6,221

26th November 2011, 02:49 PM	#245
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by TheRedWorm Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance? Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time. God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." Last edited by Limbo; 26th November 2011 at 04:27 PM.

26th November 2011, 02:51 PM	#246
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God is a projection of the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' in Hinduism and call the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture. God contains all pairs of opposites and they play out in the field of time. The play is the thing. How do you reconcile this view with the depiction of God in the bible?
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

26th November 2011, 03:03 PM	#247
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler How do you reconcile this view with the depiction of God in the bible? By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

26th November 2011, 03:28 PM	#248
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,448	Originally Posted by Limbo By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2 You are full of of yourself, for no reason that I can see.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

26th November 2011, 03:57 PM	#249
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2 What does exoteric mean?
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

26th November 2011, 04:02 PM	#250
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Twiler What does exoteric mean? Nothing interesting. He's using the term in an attempt to sound super-duper-sophisticated. It didn't work.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

26th November 2011, 04:03 PM	#251
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017	Originally Posted by Limbo By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2 That didn't answer the question.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017

26th November 2011, 04:05 PM	#252
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017	Originally Posted by Twiler What does exoteric mean? Out there, basically. As opposed to the gods and goddesses some see in their minds: Esoteric. It's all very spiritual and takes a lot of reading and self-congratulation.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017

26th November 2011, 04:06 PM	#253
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,255	Originally Posted by edge There's been some intresting developments in what we know and what they recently found. All these new finds re-enforce it seems, what we have so far. But just like the Dead Sea scrolls somebody will suppress the information for 40 years as they did with that discovery. In that amount of time there's no telling what will be suppressed. What the hell do you mean, it will be suppressed? It's in the Daily Mail and on the Internet. True or false, I think it's out there. Hard to put that genie back in the bottle. Originally Posted by edge http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery I think this hits the nail on the head. See you'll also be saved. This will be my last post. For now. That sounds remarkably like a threat. Originally Posted by Limbo Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all. God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing. You're just saying stuff. There's no evidence for any of it, and there's only one answer to assertions like this:
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask... Last edited by Elizabeth I; 26th November 2011 at 04:07 PM. Reason: to rearrange reply

26th November 2011, 04:22 PM	#254
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler What does exoteric mean? If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." Last edited by Limbo; 26th November 2011 at 04:23 PM.

26th November 2011, 04:24 PM	#255
Elizabeth I Olympic Equestrian Wannabe Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Defending the Alamo Posts: 9,255	Originally Posted by Limbo If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the soft candy. Again, you're just saying stuff.
	__________________ • There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill • Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it. • My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

26th November 2011, 04:38 PM	#256
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017	Originally Posted by Limbo If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric. http://www.centerforsacredsciences.o...s_a2_350px.jpg I think tootsie pops are the perfect analogy. Something for the kids while the adults enjoy some tiramasu or English toffee.
Resume Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 8,017

26th November 2011, 09:27 PM	#257
Mr. Scott Under the Amazing One's Wing Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: USA Posts: 2,274	Originally Posted by Limbo Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time. God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing. Limbo, tell us something, anything at all, that demonstrates that all this is not just happening inside your brain.
	__________________ "thhere's waaaay too much colonialism and white supremacy in our culture to even THINK about addressing the religion of brown people, the end." A+ Global Moderator ceepolk, Dec. 9, 2012

26th November 2011, 10:41 PM	#258
TheGoldcountry Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1,530	Originally Posted by Limbo If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric. http://www.centerforsacredsciences.o...s_a2_350px.jpg I have a pretty good idea I know what flavor this particular Tootsie Pop tastes like, and it ain't fruity (well, not the good kind of fruity, anyway.)
	__________________ Not exactly, I'm talking about something I don't know about, if its there then it is what I am talking about and thats not nothing. -punshhh I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten

26th November 2011, 11:30 PM	#259
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott But the idea that Christianity is monotheistic is a fraud. Aside from top God, there are lots of lesser Gods comparable to the pantheistic Gods of ancient Rome and Greece. All these angels and devils and Satan, how different are they than the gods of pantheistic religions? And in ancient Rome, royals were expected to be promoted after death to Gods themselves. How different is that from being promoted to a Saint in the Catholic religion? The only difference is they don't use the G word for them. Don't forget the biggest "little g" god of all Catholicism, Mary!
Robrob Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 3,660

27th November 2011, 12:34 AM	#260
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Mr. Scott Limbo, tell us something, anything at all, that demonstrates that all this is not just happening inside your brain. This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 12:41 AM.

27th November 2011, 12:46 AM	#261
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know. To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

27th November 2011, 01:04 AM	#262
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method. Wow really? No I'm not trying to make up my own religion. I'm a Christian Mystic. My exegesis is based on studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, esoterica, parapsychology, and based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 01:05 AM.

27th November 2011, 01:09 AM	#263
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo Wow really? No I'm not trying to make up my own religion. I'm a Christian Mystic. My exegesis is based on studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, esoterica, parapsychology, and based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences. I don't think that you yourself have done that, but I think that at some point, someone has put their own ideas into the mix. How do you define a christian?
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

27th November 2011, 01:17 AM	#264
Leumas Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,493	Originally Posted by Twiler To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method. It is like a garbage dump.... new garbage is piled on top of old rubbish.
Leumas Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 2,493	__________________ "I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for his reputation if he didn't." - Jules Renard "In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection of his own." - Thomas Jefferson

27th November 2011, 01:44 AM	#265
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler I don't think that you yourself have done that, but I think that at some point, someone has put their own ideas into the mix. Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street. Quote: How do you define a christian? Someone who professes to a Christian creed.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

27th November 2011, 01:47 AM	#266
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street. Someone who professes to a Christian creed. And how do you define a Christian creed?
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

27th November 2011, 02:30 AM	#267
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler And how do you define a Christian creed? Creed \'kreed\ [ME crede, from OE creeda, from Latin credo ("I believe" the first word of the Apostles' and Nicene creeds), from credere to believe, trust, entrust; akin to OIr cretid "he believes"] 1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief 2: a set of fundamental beliefs 3: a guiding principle
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

27th November 2011, 02:40 AM	#268
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo Creed \'kreed\ [ME crede, from OE creeda, from Latin credo ("I believe" the first word of the Apostles' and Nicene creeds), from credere to believe, trust, entrust; akin to OIr cretid "he believes"] 1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief 2: a set of fundamental beliefs 3: a guiding principle But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

27th November 2011, 02:56 AM	#269
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH? Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions. The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief." Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 03:01 AM.

27th November 2011, 03:07 AM	#270
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494	Originally Posted by Limbo Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions. The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order. I don't think you're even trying to answer the question.
Twiler Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 2,494

27th November 2011, 03:12 AM	#271
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Twiler To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method. I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people. Really he is not making it up.

27th November 2011, 03:13 AM	#272
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by Twiler I don't think you're even trying to answer the question. sigh Fine. I'll answer your pointless question. Quote: But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH? Yeah, sure. What's your point?
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

27th November 2011, 03:14 AM	#273
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by punshhh I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people. Really he is not making it up. THANKS! Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

27th November 2011, 03:18 AM	#274
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Limbo THANKS! Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book. Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature

27th November 2011, 03:18 AM	#275
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	Originally Posted by punshhh Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature Yeah
Limbo Jedi Consular Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 3,000	__________________ "Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo. "Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."