JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Reply
Old 26th November 2011, 01:54 PM   #241
Toontown
Illuminator
 
Toontown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4,574
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
It means Humanity is a vehicle for the spirit of God. Human bodies are like masks, costumes for God. Vessels. Temples. All the world's a stage, as the Bard said.
If that were true, you wouldn't know it. Knowing it messes up the whole effect.
Toontown is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 02:29 PM   #242
TheRedWorm
I AM the Red Worm!
 
TheRedWorm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Body: Michigan, Heart: Chicago
Posts: 4,456
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
It means Humanity is a vehicle for the spirit of God. Human bodies are like masks, costumes for God. Vessels. Temples. All the world's a stage, as the Bard said.

Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?
__________________
I'll be the best Congressman money can buy!

As usual, he doesn't understand the relevant sciences, can't Google for the right thing, and appears to rely on the notion that a word salad liberally sprinkled with Google Croutons will make his argument seem coherent. -JayUtah
TheRedWorm is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 02:33 PM   #243
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,196
Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?
It wouldn't. This just further demonstrates the petty nature of man made gods. No imagination.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 02:49 PM   #244
Ichneumonwasp
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,240
Quote:
If taken at face value, the Bible convincingly shows that God the Father is all powerful and that He fully intends to bring His plan to a successful conclusion, despite the best efforts of those in the physical and spiritual realms. Therefore, what we see taking place in the world cannot be God scrambling to make the best of a bad situation, but rather God's original plan unfolding. But, as strange as it seems when viewed logically in the light of Scripture, this obvious conclusion that God the Father is in total control of all things is not acknowledged by most who profess to worship Him.

The reason most have concluded that God is NOT in absolute control is because they have accepted the idea that He has given His creation "free will." Even if the Eternal Father wants to save all of mankind (I Tim. 2:4), many believe that He can't because they have been taught that God will not force anyone to be saved against their will. Effectively, the common belief is that God has ceded His sovereignty to His creation. Therefore, the creation will determine the outcome of the divine plan, not God.

The Father may not want anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance (II Pet. 3:9), but according to the prevailing view, God will NOT get what He desires. Because it is thought that He has given man the "free will" to choose life or death, some will choose NOT to be saved. In this warped scenario, the choices of mortal men are allowed to override the outcome desired by the immortal God.

Yet does this understanding square with what the Bible says? Let's see what the Scriptures teach about God's plan for ALL mankind:

JOHN 12:32 "And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw [helkuso] ALL people to myself." (NRSV)



In this statement, Messiah Yeshua gives us a glimpse into what God planned to accomplish through the sacrifice of His Son. It's clear from the next verse (John 12:33) that the phrase "lifted up" was a reference to Yeshua's impending crucifixion. The Messiah plainly understood that his sacrificial death was a necessary part of God's plan which would eventually lead to ALL mankind accepting him as their Lord ("Master"). Paul expands on the words of Yeshua to confirm the end result of his atoning death:

PHILIPPIANS 2:8 He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death even death on a cross! 9 As a result God exalted him and gave him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY knee will bow in heaven and on earth and under the earth 11 and EVERY tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. (NET)
Yeshua's ability to put aside his own desires and do the will of the Father resulted in God exalting him above all things except Himself (I Cor. 15:27). In the end, the entire creation will bow to Yeshua and confess that he is Lord. This outcome will bring glory to God the Father, because it will signal the successful completion of this phase of His plan.

TITUS 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared for the salvation of ALL men, (RSV)

Actually re-quoted by Edge. In light of the problem of evil, do you actually believe what is quoted above?
Ichneumonwasp is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 02:49 PM   #245
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by TheRedWorm View Post
Again, why is that necessary? Why would a being that powerful need with the song and dance?

Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 26th November 2011 at 04:27 PM.
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 02:51 PM   #246
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God is a projection of the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' in Hinduism and call the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they play out in the field of time. The play is the thing.
How do you reconcile this view with the depiction of God in the bible?
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 03:03 PM   #247
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
How do you reconcile this view with the depiction of God in the bible?

By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 03:28 PM   #248
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: On the Flanders/Nederland border.
Posts: 35,445
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2
You are full of of yourself, for no reason that I can see.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 03:57 PM   #249
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2
What does exoteric mean?
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:02 PM   #250
Complexity
The Woo Whisperer
 
Complexity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 9,263
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
What does exoteric mean?

Nothing interesting.

He's using the term in an attempt to sound super-duper-sophisticated.

It didn't work.
__________________
"It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work."

- W. Somerset Maugham

"Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man."

- Bertrand Russell
Complexity is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:03 PM   #251
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,196
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2
That didn't answer the question.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:05 PM   #252
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,196
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
What does exoteric mean?
Out there, basically. As opposed to the gods and goddesses some see in their minds: Esoteric. It's all very spiritual and takes a lot of reading and self-congratulation.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:06 PM   #253
Elizabeth I
Olympic Equestrian Wannabe
 
Elizabeth I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Defending the Alamo
Posts: 9,920
Originally Posted by edge View Post
There's been some intresting developments in what we know and what they recently found.
All these new finds re-enforce it seems, what we have so far.


But just like the Dead Sea scrolls somebody will suppress the information for 40 years as they did with that discovery.
In that amount of time there's no telling what will be suppressed.
What the hell do you mean, it will be suppressed? It's in the Daily Mail and on the Internet. True or false, I think it's out there. Hard to put that genie back in the bottle.


Originally Posted by edge View Post
http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Mystery

I think this hits the nail on the head.
See you'll also be saved.
This will be my last post.
For now.
That sounds remarkably like a threat.


Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.
You're just saying stuff. There's no evidence for any of it, and there's only one answer to assertions like this:
__________________

There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill
Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...

Last edited by Elizabeth I; 26th November 2011 at 04:07 PM. Reason: to rearrange reply
Elizabeth I is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:22 PM   #254
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
What does exoteric mean?

If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.

__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 26th November 2011 at 04:23 PM.
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:24 PM   #255
Elizabeth I
Olympic Equestrian Wannabe
 
Elizabeth I's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Defending the Alamo
Posts: 9,920
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the soft candy.
Again, you're just saying stuff.
__________________

There is something about the outside of a horse that is good for the inside of a man. - Winston Churchill
Never wrestle with a pig - you just get dirty and the pig enjoys it.
My blog: Pardon me, may I ask...
Elizabeth I is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 04:38 PM   #256
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,196
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.

http://www.centerforsacredsciences.o...s_a2_350px.jpg
I think tootsie pops are the perfect analogy. Something for the kids while the adults enjoy some tiramasu or English toffee.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 09:27 PM   #257
Mr. Scott
Under the Amazing One's Wing
 
Mr. Scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,550
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time.

God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.
Limbo, tell us something, anything at all, that demonstrates that all this is not just happening inside your brain.
__________________
"Why is the world so different from what we thought it was?" Ting-Ting, from the 2000 film Yi Yi.
Mr. Scott is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 10:41 PM   #258
TheGoldcountry
Graduate Poster
 
TheGoldcountry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1,951
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
If you imagine religion as a tootsie roll pop, the exoteric would be the outer coating of hard candy. It contains and conceals the inner soft candy which is the esoteric.

http://www.centerforsacredsciences.o...s_a2_350px.jpg
I have a pretty good idea I know what flavor this particular Tootsie Pop tastes like, and it ain't fruity (well, not the good kind of fruity, anyway.)
__________________
Not exactly, I'm talking about something I don't know about, if its there then it is what I am talking about and thats not nothing. -punshhh

I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten
TheGoldcountry is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th November 2011, 11:30 PM   #259
Robrob
Philosopher
 
Robrob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 5,508
Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
But the idea that Christianity is monotheistic is a fraud. Aside from top God, there are lots of lesser Gods comparable to the pantheistic Gods of ancient Rome and Greece. All these angels and devils and Satan, how different are they than the gods of pantheistic religions? And in ancient Rome, royals were expected to be promoted after death to Gods themselves. How different is that from being promoted to a Saint in the Catholic religion? The only difference is they don't use the G word for them.
Don't forget the biggest "little g" god of all Catholicism, Mary!
Robrob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 12:34 AM   #260
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Mr. Scott View Post
Limbo, tell us something, anything at all, that demonstrates that all this is not just happening inside your brain.

This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 12:41 AM.
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 12:46 AM   #261
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.
To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 01:04 AM   #262
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.

Wow really? No I'm not trying to make up my own religion. I'm a Christian Mystic. My exegesis is based on studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, esoterica, parapsychology, and based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 01:05 AM.
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 01:09 AM   #263
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Wow really? No I'm not trying to make up my own religion. I'm a Christian Mystic. My exegesis is based on studying comparative religion, comparative mythology, comparative mysticism, esoterica, parapsychology, and based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.
I don't think that you yourself have done that, but I think that at some point, someone has put their own ideas into the mix.

How do you define a christian?
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 01:17 AM   #264
Leumas
Master Poster
 
Leumas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,696
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.


It is like a garbage dump.... new garbage is piled on top of old rubbish.
__________________
"I don't know if God exists, but it would be better for his reputation if he didn't" - Jules Renard
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty" - Thomas Jefferson
"It is easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" - Mark Twain
Leumas is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 01:44 AM   #265
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
I don't think that you yourself have done that, but I think that at some point, someone has put their own ideas into the mix.

Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street.

Quote:
How do you define a christian?

Someone who professes to a Christian creed.
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 01:47 AM   #266
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street.




Someone who professes to a Christian creed.
And how do you define a Christian creed?
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 02:30 AM   #267
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
And how do you define a Christian creed?

Creed \'kreed\

[ME crede, from OE creeda, from Latin credo ("I believe" the first word of the Apostles' and Nicene creeds), from credere to believe, trust, entrust; akin to OIr cretid "he believes"]

1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2: a set of fundamental beliefs
3: a guiding principle
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 02:40 AM   #268
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Creed \'kreed\

[ME crede, from OE creeda, from Latin credo ("I believe" the first word of the Apostles' and Nicene creeds), from credere to believe, trust, entrust; akin to OIr cretid "he believes"]

1: a brief authoritative formula of religious belief
2: a set of fundamental beliefs
3: a guiding principle
But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 02:56 AM   #269
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?

Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol

Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions.

The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order.
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."

Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 03:01 AM.
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 03:07 AM   #270
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol

Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions.

The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order.
I don't think you're even trying to answer the question.
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 03:12 AM   #271
punshhh
Illuminator
 
punshhh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rural England
Posts: 4,813
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
To me, this just sounds like an attempt by someone to make up their own religion and pass it off as christianity via the 'What it says is not what it means.' method.
I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people.

Really he is not making it up.
punshhh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 03:13 AM   #272
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
I don't think you're even trying to answer the question.

*sigh*

Fine. I'll answer your pointless question.

Quote:
But what defines a Christian creed? Belief in the bible? In Jesus? In YHVH?

Yeah, sure. What's your point?
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 03:14 AM   #273
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people.

Really he is not making it up.

THANKS!

Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 03:18 AM   #274
punshhh
Illuminator
 
punshhh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Rural England
Posts: 4,813
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
THANKS!

Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.
Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature
punshhh is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 03:18 AM   #275
Limbo
Jedi Consular
 
Limbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,104
Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature

Yeah
__________________
"Faith in what?" he asked himself, adrift in limbo.

"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
Limbo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 04:29 AM   #276
Twiler
Master Poster
 
Twiler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,491
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
*sigh*

Fine. I'll answer your pointless question.




Yeah, sure. What's your point?
Do you mean that belief in any of them defines a christian?

The point I'm trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be much similarity between your beliefs and what you describe as the beliefs of the non-mystic christians. I think that you're trying to have your cake and eat it, having your own beliefs while still maintaining a connection to a larger community.

It sounds elitist as well.
Twiler is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 04:48 AM   #277
Mr. Scott
Under the Amazing One's Wing
 
Mr. Scott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 2,550
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
based on insights gleaned from my own mystical experiences.
Eliminate that, what's only happening in your brain, and what do you have left?
__________________
"Why is the world so different from what we thought it was?" Ting-Ting, from the 2000 film Yi Yi.
Mr. Scott is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 05:22 AM   #278
dafydd
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: On the Flanders/Nederland border.
Posts: 35,445
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.
I beg to differ.
dafydd is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 07:48 AM   #279
Resume
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10,196
Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature
And the glorious lint in one's navel.
Resume is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th November 2011, 08:09 AM   #280
edge
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Where my two best friends are, in here now.
Posts: 5,436
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Without humans there is no god.
I can't resist!
You say, “ without humans there is no God.”
I say, “Without humans there is no science.”
You guys got some double standards there bud.
So you can dig up a bone and say here is history, and a known fact!
But at the same time when a find like this is made it's not?
You know the only difference between you and I is God, do you get that?
You can't fool yourself forever.
edge is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

JREF Forum » General Topics » Religion and Philosophy

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:13 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.