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Old 27th November 2011, 09:10 AM   #281
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
You can't fool yourself forever.
You're sure trying.
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:23 AM   #282
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
blah blah blah blah
It's a yes or no question.
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:25 AM   #283
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
The Lead Codices were proven to be FORGERIES.....


The Dead Sea Scrolls are in fact DETRIMENTAL to the Authenticity of the Bible. Have a look at this post where I explain SOME of this. So if anything the obfuscation and delay in their publications would serve the Agenda of the mostly Church associated experts who had control over them.
London 22nd March 2011
Release
Quote:
The collection appears to be of mixed provenance. But initial metallurgicaltests indicate that some of the books made of lead could date from the firstcentury CE/AD, based on the form of corrosion which has taken place, whichexperts believe would be impossible to achieve artificially.Sealed books were used by early Christian writers as a code for secretteaching; they were heavily persecuted and needed to protect their knowledge. Until now, no such book has ever been found. The codices werediscovered in an area to which Christian refugees are known to have fled after the fall of Jerusalem in 70CE/AD, and where important documents from the same period have previously been found. The existence of a significant, hidden collection of sealed codices is mentioned in the Christian Bible’s Book of Revelation and in other biblical books.
From here:http://www.scribd.com/doc/51540533/L...-Press-Release
From your link in references.

What I want to know is what is written within.
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:29 AM   #284
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Originally Posted by Paulhoff View Post
The one you commented about edge, geezzz.

Paul

Geezzz, I know no one with that name?
WHO?
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:32 AM   #285
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Originally Posted by Ichneumonwasp View Post
Actually re-quoted by Edge. In light of the problem of evil, do you actually believe what is quoted above?
Yes!
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:34 AM   #286
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
By reconciling the esoteric with the exoteric. Every religion has both. The former is for spiritual adults and the latter is for spiritual children.

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. -1 Corinthians 3:2
Precisely!
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:35 AM   #287
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Yes!

So, you think God creates pain and suffering, but it's OK because eventually everyone will be saved? How can you reconcile that thought -- God's creation of pain and suffering -- with the idea that he is good?
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:38 AM   #288
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature
Yep God's real church!
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:56 AM   #289
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Originally Posted by Ichneumonwasp View Post
So, you think God creates pain and suffering, but it's OK because eventually everyone will be saved? How can you reconcile that thought -- God's creation of pain and suffering -- with the idea that he is good?
Well there are many theories on why it exists but that's not all that exists.
There are many more good emotions and experiences out there than bad.
His reasons are his reasons and this is where we are to help and pick up after ourselves, do onto others as you would have them to for you, to you ect...
Something that is indestructible like soul for instance, eventually perfected to that point would take a great deal of power, if you had that power what would you do with it, how would you handle it, how would you treat others with lesser power once you advance through perfection?
Maybe it just all a great lesson to make sure you aren't going to be abusive.

I read one person’s NDE experience where he stated that when he asked, “ what all this meant” the reply was, “ that nothing we did in our lives really mattered, what mattered was what we did from that point on, in that state that reality.”
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Old 27th November 2011, 10:07 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
This is stuff you learn as you study things like esoterica and theology and comparative mysticism and things you glean over the years from mystical experiences. I don't just make **** up as I go, ya'know.
No, but somebody made it up and you appear to have swallowed it hook, line and sinker.


Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
I am familiar with the same esoteric traditions that Limbo is referring to. It is all well documented understood and practiced by many people.

Really he is not making it up.
See above.


Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
THANKS!

Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.
I have read many books, including some by your mini-god Joseph Campbell. Besides boring me to tears, he left me with a deep and intense feeling of "So what?"


Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Yes, or go out into the woods and re-acquaint themselves with nature
What makes you think nobody here ever goes outdoors?
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Old 27th November 2011, 10:08 AM   #291
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Well there are many theories on why it exists but that's not all that exists.
There are many more good emotions and experiences out there than bad.
His reasons are his reasons and this is where we are to help and pick up after ourselves, do onto others as you would have them to for you, to you ect...
Something that is indestructible like soul for instance, eventually perfected to that point would take a great deal of power, if you had that power what would you do with it, how would you handle it, how would you treat others with lesser power once you advance through perfection?
Maybe it just all a great lesson to make sure you aren't going to be abusive.

I read one person’s NDE experience where he stated that when he asked, “ what all this meant” the reply was, “ that nothing we did in our lives really mattered, what mattered was what we did from that point on, in that state that reality.”
There are myriad problems with the above, but I wish to highlight one: let us assume that human life has worth, to begin.

How could you account for a god that directed the suffering of a newly born child infested with parasites, with flies in her eyes to die in pain at 3 months of age? What lesson did she learn about not being abusive? Contrast that with the life of an incredibly abusive Wall Street fatcat. How did he learn a lesson about not being abusive?
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Old 27th November 2011, 12:22 PM   #292
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Geezzz, I know no one with that name?
WHO?
I'm in no way responsable for you in remembering who or what you were taking about. Any quote is easy to click on to see where it came from.

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Much worse than the Question not asked, is the Answer not Given
Don't accept an answer that can't be questioned - God is Surperfluous
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Science doesn’t know everything, but religion doesn’t know anything
Life is so horrent and also so beautiful, but without it there is nothing

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Old 27th November 2011, 01:59 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
Precisely!
there is nothing precise in mumbo jumbo.
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What's the best argument for UHC? This argument against UHC.
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Old 27th November 2011, 02:30 PM   #294
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Originally Posted by Twiler View Post
Do you mean that belief in any of them defines a christian?

The point I'm trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be much similarity between your beliefs and what you describe as the beliefs of the non-mystic christians. I think that you're trying to have your cake and eat it, having your own beliefs while still maintaining a connection to a larger community.

There is a big difference between average Christians and Christian mystics. I can see why you would think that I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too.

I think the reason you think that is because you have not yet seen how esoteric theology and mysticism transcend the borders between religions, uniting them all. Neither has the average Christian seen. Seeing how is not something I can just show you. You have to learn to see it for yourself. Studying the comparative fields is a good way to see it. Therefore I recommend that you quit wasting time on JREF and go read Joseph Campbell, Huston Smith, Karen Armstrong, Carl Jung, Mircea Eliade for a few years. Sooner or later, you'll see.

Quote:
It sounds elitist as well.

"Elitism is the belief or attitude that some individuals, who form an elite — a select group of people with intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes — are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern."

Yes special experience and training is required to be a mystic. The same is true for many things. But what does 'select group of people' mean? Mystics don't select themselves or each other. God does the selecting. I didn't decide to be a mystic - my experiences left me no choice in the matter. There is no ambitious decision to be an elitist mystic, and I don't make money from it.

And btw, mystics don't want to govern. If the will to govern politically is part of what constitutes an elite, then we aren't one. Mystics just want to advance through the stages of mystical growth, like a moth to a flame.
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Last edited by Limbo; 27th November 2011 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 27th November 2011, 02:40 PM   #295
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
What makes you think nobody here ever goes outdoors?
Contemplation and communion with nature is an important mystical practice.
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Old 27th November 2011, 02:52 PM   #296
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Contemplation and communion with nature is an important mystical practice.
Lot's of people do these things without trying to wear a self-important label.
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Old 27th November 2011, 02:53 PM   #297
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Therefore I recommend that you quit wasting time on JREF and go read Joseph Campbell, Huston Smith, Karen Armstrong, Carl Jung, Mircea Eliade for a few years. Sooner or later, you'll see.
Many here see just fine. Right through your self-important philosophy.

Last edited by Resume; 27th November 2011 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 27th November 2011, 03:03 PM   #298
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Contemplation and communion with nature is an important mystical practice.
**** nature then, Imma staying inside.
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Old 27th November 2011, 03:04 PM   #299
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Contemplation and communion with nature is an important mystical practice.

It's an important human practice.
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Old 27th November 2011, 03:25 PM   #300
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
I can't resist!
You say, “ without humans there is no God.”
I say, “Without humans there is no science.”
You guys got some double standards there bud.
...
No double standard, because no one is claiming that Science is anything but a Human invention.

God, on the other hand, is supposed to be outside of Humans, but everytime people investigate anything attributed to God, they find something else. They never ever find a god pulling strings.
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Old 27th November 2011, 03:31 PM   #301
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
I can't resist!
You say, “ without humans there is no God.”
I say, “Without humans there is no science.”

You guys got some double standards there bud.
So you can dig up a bone and say here is history, and a known fact!
But at the same time when a find like this is made it's not?
You know the only difference between you and I is God, do you get that?
You can't fool yourself forever.


Both ARE right.....since science is a human artifact it cannot exist without humans.....likewise God is a human artifact and thus cannot exist without us.


I think what you fail to appreciate is that Science is not GOD to people who love it.....it is more like a Car....we love it and use it to ENHANCE our existence.


God is more like a GUN.
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Last edited by Leumas; 27th November 2011 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 27th November 2011, 03:40 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
London 22nd March 2011
Release

From here:http://www.scribd.com/doc/51540533/L...-Press-Release
From your link in references.

What I want to know is what is written within.


If you read the link I mentioned you may noticed this
Quote:
The Greek is lifted nonsensically from an inscription published in 1958. The forger couldn't tell the difference between the Greek letters alpha and lambda. The Hebrew script is taken from the same inscription. The Hebrew text is in "code," i.e., is gibberish. The "Jesus" face is taken from a well-known mosaic. The charioteer is taken from a fake coin. The crocodile has a suspicious resemblance to a plastic toy. This forger was not Professor Moriarty. This forger was a careless bumbler. That makes it all the more galling how readily the media fell for the scam.[25]
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Old 27th November 2011, 05:15 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Contemplation and communion with nature is an important mystical practice.
Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Lots of people do these things without trying to wear a self-important label.
^^^^^^
Exactly
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Old 27th November 2011, 09:35 PM   #304
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Here's what Hitchens says about God's Plan (the best stuff starts at 3:57):

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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Old 27th November 2011, 10:34 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Leumas View Post
For all I know the bacteria that inhabit my lower intestines could be burning offerings for me right now....in fact that might be how they help me digest my food.
Your similes and metaphors are getting kinda gross, but this one really made me laugh.
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Old 27th November 2011, 10:35 PM   #306
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
It might not have been hard to handle at one time, but now it is.
Or till we get straight with ourselves and God, at which point nothing is impossible.
Are you straight with God and yourself, edge?
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Old 27th November 2011, 10:51 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Haha yeah it seems like two different religions doesn't it. No it's just the difference between the esoteric Christianity of a mystic and the exoteric Christianity of the man-on-the-street.
Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Are you trying to figure out who put their own ideas into the mix? lol

Here's the thing. There are two kinds of theology in religions. There is the theology of the mystics, who make the religions. And there is the theology of the non-mystics, who misunderstand the religions.

The theology of the mystics runs hidden underneath the surface of the religion, like a current. It's reserved for initiates of the mystical order.
Ah, so you're a Christian mystic, eh? Heh. Thomas Merton, you ain't.

I've also read much of Merton's work and I have a great deal of respect for him. A deep thinker and really lived what he preached.



Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
THANKS!

Can you believe these guys? They need to quit hanging out on the net and read a book.
Can you believe yourself? You need to quit hanging out on the net and write a book.

I guess it's easier to be all coy on the internets when people are genuinely curious and ask questions. Do you think your heroes like Merton would have been reluctant and petulant and superior-acting when asked similar questions?

Merton and his peers spent their lives trying to patiently explain what they thought and why they thought it. Methinks you haven't the faith in yourself enough to meet the challenges issued on JREF.
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Old 28th November 2011, 01:58 AM   #308
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Originally Posted by Ichneumonwasp View Post
It's an important human practice.
Yes like providing suitable nourishment for the body.
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Old 28th November 2011, 02:03 AM   #309
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
^^^^^^
Exactly
Yes mystical practice shares many practices with the practice of being a human.
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Old 28th November 2011, 04:12 AM   #310
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Yes mystical practice shares many practices with the practice of being a human.
Practice of being a human? Look up the word 'practice' in a dictionary. You are gibbering again.
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Old 28th November 2011, 05:19 AM   #311
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
Yes mystical practice shares many practices with the practice of being a human.
No.
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Old 28th November 2011, 05:22 AM   #312
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Originally Posted by Elizabeth I View Post
No.

What are you, Pixy Misa II?
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"Faith in faith," he replied. "It isn't necessary to have something to believe in. It's only necessary to believe that somewhere there's something worthy of belief."
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Old 28th November 2011, 05:54 AM   #313
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
I didn't decide to be a mystic - my experiences left me no choice in the matter. There is no ambitious decision to be an elitist mystic, and I don't make money from it.
You don't seem to do much of anything with your mysticism other than make lofty uncorroborated claims about it, then ignore the valid criticism of those claims.
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Old 28th November 2011, 06:51 AM   #314
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Originally Posted by dafydd View Post
Practice of being a human? Look up the word 'practice' in a dictionary. You are gibbering again.
If some folk had practiced a little harder we wouldn't be in the mess we are in at the moment.
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Old 28th November 2011, 06:58 AM   #315
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
If some folk had practiced a little harder we wouldn't be in the mess we are in at the moment.
Which mess would that be?
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Old 28th November 2011, 09:46 AM   #316
dafydd
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Originally Posted by punshhh View Post
If some folk had practiced a little harder we wouldn't be in the mess we are in at the moment.
Which mess would that be? Me and mine are doing fine, sans woo and mysticism.
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Old 29th November 2011, 12:53 PM   #317
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Originally Posted by edge View Post
God's power is such that whatever He has decided to do, that is what will be done. God tells us that He has designed a plan that will be implemented because no one (not man nor angel) has the power to thwart or withstand His purpose.
In that case, the fact of me not believing in God is part of the plan, and I need not worry about it. It's not like I can do anything about it.
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Old 29th November 2011, 12:55 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by Mark6 View Post
In that case, the fact of me not believing in God is part of the plan, and I need not worry about it. It's not like I can do anything about it.
How truly troubling if people start believing this again. It's a cheap and easy way to avoid any responsibility.
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Old 29th November 2011, 02:05 PM   #319
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
What are you, Pixy Misa II?
No.
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Old 30th November 2011, 02:35 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
Because God isn't a separate being in the sense that you and I are separate beings. God-images are projections to the ego-self from the deepest part of our collective psyche or soul, which is called 'Atman' or 'Brahman' in Hinduism and called the 'archetype of the Self' in Jungian terms. God is beyond any one particular form or name or culture or symbol because God is inside us all AND outside us all at the same time.
Surely this contradicts everything said about god in the bible.

Originally Posted by Limbo View Post
God contains all pairs of opposites and they all play out in the field of time, through us. Humanity is an aspect of God. The Trinity is really a Quaternity. The play is the thing.
You may be part of god, but I don't want anything to do with the racist, homophobic, petulant and misogynistic god described in the bible.
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