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Tags Amanda Knox , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 2nd December 2011, 12:11 PM   #161
Lithrael
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
The majority here definitely will not like this message.
The Warden, Guard and Cellmate report exactly the personal habits and personality traits that guilt arguers have been soundly ridiculed here for previously exposing.
Interviewees are also identified by name which also says a lot to me about credibility.
Therefore, I await with bated breath the inevitable forthcoming spin about what the Warden, Guard, and Cellmate meant to say
I haven't been following this much - as someone who's not close to the situation the impression I get from that article really isn't bad, though. It sounds like a bunch of normal, emotional people running into a girl who's a severe Aspie or in a similar mental state and being pissy with her for not acting like they do and, understandably, for being a celebrity. I could easily see several people I know online acting exactly like she apparently did, and these are people I know are really good people who just don't get why they grate on everyone so much, who would absolutely think the crying cellmate would rather be left alone than consoled by them, that sort of thing.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 01:45 PM   #162
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
As far as I can see there no quotes of what these people said except inside what should be quoted. For example: But in the cell she carried on eating meat. So eventually we started teasing her: "So you're vegetarian are you? " For her it was all a strategy.

Now if this were published by some real paper, even the Daily Mail, I'd think a little more of it.

She claims to have interviewed a cellmate and a warden - she mentions a guard in the intro but then calls this person The Warden in the body of the article. Why do I say claims? Because, she is nothing but a blogger. She is no more reputable than MissRepresented.

One must ask oneself how did this person get these "exclusive interviews" Did she pay for them? How did she locate these people?

It is very hard to believe that she could compete with the entire tab industries in Italy and England and land these exclusive stories.

I would suggest to all, a quick tour of her site, noting the paucity of articles and the lack of real publications printing what she has.

Perhaps, the PGP people can find a comment on a blog that says she didn't bathe while in college and they can retell the story a thousand times.

Did Massei say she didn't shower regularly?
Yes. What also gets me: Where are all those prison mates who cried with Amanda, hugged her, made her hot chocolate, cheered for her acquittal? Why these strange people who say she smelled badly, showered without shampoo and soap (??) and wolfed down meat while being rude to all? I think its time for Marriott to do some more damage control......
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Old 2nd December 2011, 01:50 PM   #163
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If we are in character assassination mode, from Sharon Feninsteins blog about page ,we learn :

"She has also worked with London nightclubs."

What's that meant to mean?
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Old 2nd December 2011, 02:53 PM   #164
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Some funny contradictions from miss Finkelstain's "interview":

Quote:
Raffaelle wrote to her every few weeks, but she never seemed that excited when a letter came.
but
Quote:
She often mentioned Raffaelle and was quite happy when letters arrived from him, she immediately replied.



Quote:
It was like she was constantly doing a job interview and trying to show the best side of herself.
but
Quote:
But often she didn't wash [her hair] for a month and wore the same jumper and jeans for a week, though I’m not not sure about her underwear. She was always stretching and then running like a crazy person round the courtyard for the hours they were allowed out. She came in sweating but didn’t shower or change. She didn't look after herself.


It is strange that the interviewees talking about the lies and manipulative behaviour fail to give even a single example. OTOH they give a lot of examples of childish jealousy, bullying and plain abuse that they've dealt and Amanda endured without complaint.
The warden also seems quite disappointed that she failed to make Knox talk about the murder and say something incriminating.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 02:57 PM   #165
LondonJohn
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Originally Posted by Lithrael View Post
I haven't been following this much - as someone who's not close to the situation the impression I get from that article really isn't bad, though. It sounds like a bunch of normal, emotional people running into a girl who's a severe Aspie or in a similar mental state and being pissy with her for not acting like they do and, understandably, for being a celebrity. I could easily see several people I know online acting exactly like she apparently did, and these are people I know are really good people who just don't get why they grate on everyone so much, who would absolutely think the crying cellmate would rather be left alone than consoled by them, that sort of thing.

I have doubts as to the veracity and reliability of these supposed first-hand interviews, but it's important to remember that, regardless of this, they don't amount to anything in regard to Knox's involvement (non-involvement) in the murder of Meredith Kercher.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: it wouldn't have made a jot of difference if Knox had been proven to be a crack addict with a habit of bringing three different men back to her room each day for wild sex, and a personal hygiene problem that extended to her soiling her own bedding every night and not changing the sheets for months. As unpleasant and character-defaming as these traits might be, they have absolutely no bearing on whether or not Knox participated in Meredith's murder. And in regard to the murder (the subject we're all actually debating), the relevant available evidence shows utterly conclusively not only that Knox can never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have been involved, but also in fact that Knox almost certainly had nothing whatsoever to do with the murder.

It wouldn't even have made a difference if Knox had gone round after the murder shouting "Hooray! The witch is dead!" and "I'm glad Meredith's dead - I hated her guts!". Frankly, I don't care if Amanda Knox might or might not have various personality disorders, or what the state of her personal hygiene might be. The only thing I've ever been interested in debating was whether or not she (and Sollecito, of course) should be convicted of the crimes they were accused of, and to a lesser extent (lesser because it's almost impossible to know one way or the other) whether Knox/Sollecito are factually innocent of the charges. As far as I'm concerned, the answers to these important questions are extremely clear, and have - with the strange exception of the Lumumba slander charge - been identified properly by Hellmann's appeal court.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 03:19 PM   #166
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
Some funny contradictions from miss Finkelstain's "interview":


but






but




It is strange that the interviewees talking about the lies and manipulative behaviour fail to give even a single example. OTOH they give a lot of examples of childish jealousy, bullying and plain abuse that they've dealt and Amanda endured without complaint.
The warden also seems quite disappointed that she failed to make Knox talk about the murder and say something incriminating.
Yes. Knox seems to have fared no better with these cellmates than she did with her flatmates. Additionally, it would be nice if someone were to contact the author/blogger, and ask if these transcripts from her interviews are open to other translations, if they were recorded.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 03:47 PM   #167
pilot padron
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Oh Dear

Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Yes. What also gets me: Where are all those prison mates who cried with Amanda, hugged her, made her hot chocolate, cheered for her acquittal? Why these strange people who say she smelled badly, showered without shampoo and soap (??) and wolfed down meat while being rude to all? I think its time for Marriott to do some more damage control......
But I thought I had read here over and over ad nauseam that all Marriott ever did was handle media requests for the family.

Did I miss "damage control"?

Isn't that something a million dollar PR Supertanker might be called on to do ??
Maybe I read elsewhere that Marriott was really a million dollar Supertanker for Knox who would do damage control .

BTW:
1) The "strange people" Cellmate that was interviewed lived in the same cell with Knox for 3 years

2) The 'damage control' spin, interpretations, and the usual 'anything bad cannot be true' mentality here as well as the usual personal attacks on the messenger's past are ever so reminiscent of Yogi Berra's deja vous all over again.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 03:57 PM   #168
smkovalinksy
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Re Feinstein interviews in Perugia

I thought I would drop her a line; she seems friendly enough, and says she recorded the conversations.

I am surprised she did not sell these interview materials to a magazine:

Quote:
From: <Mail_from_web_site@SHARON_FEINSTEIN.CO.UK>
Reply-To: <kovalinsky03@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 02 Dec 2011 23:23:35 +0100
To: <test@sharonfeinstein.co.uk>
Subject: Susan M Kovalinsky

Name: Susan M Kovalinsky

Reply to: xxxxxxx@gmail.com

Subject: Re Amanda Knox jail pieces

Message:

Dear Ms. Feinstein:

I have read with interest your pieces in which Amanda Knox\'s Perugian jail mates and warden have shared their memories about their experiences with Ms. Knox prior to her acquittal.

I was wondering if you created transcripts from the Italian which might be translated in various ways, or if you recorded these conversations?

Thank you.
Very best regards;

Susan M Kovalinsky
Senior Writer, press agent, public relations manager
Metro Media Consulting Group, LLC
New York City

Hello
Yes these are all recorded
Why do you ask?
regards

Thank you for your prompt reply.
I was simply wondering how you went about acquiring this information; I had not seen anything similar in any other media venues.

Certainly made for fascinating reading!

Very best regards;
Susan M Kovalinsky
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xxxxxxx@live.com
973.229.xxxx
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Old 2nd December 2011, 04:05 PM   #169
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Addendum: Ms. Feinstein contacted me further, and said she did travel to Perugia, and spent over 7 hours and was very careful with her writing of the pieces. I told her that she might send the piece to the Associated Press. If it is legitimate writing, as it would appear to be, then it should be distributed, and then others may refute it, or offer an alternative account of their own, as need be. I was quite surprised at the accounts from the cellmates and warden, as they were so at variance with what I had read before. But she seems in earnest, as a writer, so I respect that, in any case.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 09:31 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Addendum: Ms. Feinstein contacted me further, and said she did travel to Perugia, and spent over 7 hours and was very careful with her writing of the pieces. I told her that she might send the piece to the Associated Press. If it is legitimate writing, as it would appear to be, then it should be distributed, and then others may refute it, or offer an alternative account of their own, as need be. I was quite surprised at the accounts from the cellmates and warden, as they were so at variance with what I had read before. But she seems in earnest, as a writer, so I respect that, in any case.
I wouldn't be at all surprised, from what I've learned so far, to find that the quotes are genuine.

But I would suggest that Feinstein went to Perugia/Capanne with a fat expense account and that, in effect, she BRIBED these interviewees to say what she wanted them to.

Are you reading this, Sharon? How much were they paid?
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Old 2nd December 2011, 10:08 PM   #171
Kaosium
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Very harsh treatment of Knox by an author who claims to have interviewed Perugia jail Wardens and inmates:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html
Very interesting article, SMK, I took it a little differently than some might, as perhaps I put it in a different context, notably that prison life isn't very nice, there's some nasty people in there, and some of them like to amuse themselves by bullying others, after all they don't have much else to do much of the time. The other is that I tend to put things into context, and sometimes that additional knowledge will reveal information not quite intended by a person who thinks simply because they say something, it inherently makes it true, or excuses it. This article is rife with information very complimentary to Amanda and the internal inconsistencies of the article and additional context I will provide for this post suggests something--in more than one regard.

It doesn't appear to me that the author of the piece is especially 'harsh' with Amanda, however she is indeed reporting what seem to be especially nasty things about Amanda. It looks like Sharon Feinstein is new to this issue, a quick search revealed her name came up in connection with only this article after the verdict, and it doesn't seem she's inherently biased against Amanda, at least at that point.

I'd like to point out a number of things from the interviews that I find intriguing for various reasons. I find this especially 'friendly' guard interesting, how she expected 'gratitude' for comforting her mother and was so annoyed she didn't get it she remembered it years later and recounted it to explain how cold and bereft of compassion she was. What I wonder is why she expected gratitude from Amanda for that small gesture, and why it stuck with her all those years, it's pretty flimsy evidence of her contention, why would anyone automatically expect Amanda to be thankful to a guard for something like that and definitely outwardly express it? Why is this guard so 'friendly' and seemingly so interested in Amanda's thankfulness that she'd remember it?

There's a couple reasons that spring to mind, the first that this guard was part of the 'breaking down' mindgame process to get a confession prison officials played with her, which included the entirely bogus 'murder knife' as per what the lawyers told Curt Knox, detailed in the "I was there"1 prison conversation they recorded, along with what they claimed (at that time) was a 'clear cut' 2CCTV video they were holding over her head, which you can see here was an absurd lie, but of course a guilty Amanda wouldn't have known that; an innocent Amanda would obviously be unconcerned and know they were lying. Perhaps another part of this effort was the repellent HIV scheme in which they told her she had tested positive for HIV, which also netted them a list of former partners which they gave to the tabloids, except they pretended the list was only of her encounters in her two months in Italy as opposed to her entire lifetime as was actually the case.

There's another possibility, something in this Nick Pisa piece, where he notes the diaries released indicated that a 'warder' begged her for sex,3 which unfortunately was harassment she also received from a cellmate named "Rosa" as well as others, including male guards4 and high-ranking prison officials.5

As for the cellmate, I find it hilarious that she can't see for herself what a nasty vindictive bitch she is, how poorly she treated Amanda and how she thought her bullying, teasing and nastiness was justified for such minor 'offenses.' Amanda asks her to be quiet once at a time she was distraught and she 'repaid' her by blasting the TV every time she came on it, which no doubt often included the prosecution promoting yet another lie or part of the 'Foxy Knoxy' smear, which this unpleasant woman seemed to believe entirely. Amanda doesn't like second-hand smoke, so for daring to complain she makes sure to purposely smoke to annoy her further. She admits that she deliberately annoyed and taunted her, yet nothing Amanda ever did seemed to justify anything she did in revenge, and given the opportunity she'd do violence to her for all these imagined and/or petty offenses! I especially like the one where she tells Patricia who did her hair that it looked OK, but since she didn't say 'Thank You' specifically it becomes memorable enough to require an accounting years later. I wonder what it must have been like to be subject to the whims and bullying of people like this for years, knowing each and every lapse in their expectations would be brought up again and again? It sure must have been fun for Amanda having them tell her over and over that she'd be in jail for life!

Some of the claims in this piece are confusing, or at least reveal that these two are exaggerating the scope of their knowledge of Amanda's prison experience. For one thing as was revealed in that Nick Pisa piece already linked, Amanda early on received a 'lesson' in the cleaning6 of cells, lorded over by her cellmate 'Rosa,' who'd asked her for sex earlier in the piece. Come to think of it, this 'Vittoria' also mentions Amanda's 'vegetarian' phase, which is also included in that 2008 piece, so perhaps that is a nom de guerre for 'Rosa?' It sounds like 'Rosa' decided to make Amanda her little slave-girl, and perhaps this 'Vittoria' approved?

Another strange thing is how they claim Amanda never cooked, which belies the accounts of her little camp stove7 in her room and her cooking the crab cakes8 for her birthday. Note that this cellmate baked her a cake, she must be a different one than Sharon interviewed!

As for the hygiene 'issue,' I wonder if Judy Bachrach explains just how that might have come about here when she notes that Amanda learned to fend off the unwanted advances10 of her fellow inmates, and being as the shower was in their room,11 perhaps she wasn't overly enamored of showering in front of 'Vittoria?' It reminds me that I read Anne McCaffrey died recently, and I can't help but think of Lessa's 'strategy' for avoiding the attentions of the male conquerors when she was hiding amongst them as a drudge. If one is young, female, attractive and pretty much helpless amongst those who might desire you, staying dirty and unwashed might at least dissuade some seeking your attentions.

At any rate, I am extremely dubious of the verity of these two contemners, mainly because of possible motives above, and that it doesn't corroborate with more numerous accounts of her eventually becoming quite popular in prison, getting nicknamed 'Bambi'12 and the other indications such as them cheering her when she returned from testifying in the first trial, the ostentatious ovation she received after being acquitted during her release from prison by the rest of the inmates13, and other accounts of her time in prison such as the books written by Rocco Girlanda and Florisbela Inocencio de Jesus. The latter I think the most relevant in this case, here is a woman who also was interned with Amanda and as the rather and insightful nice article by Barbie Nadeau reveals, the problem here might have been the other prisoners and not so much Amanda, and she saw how their perceptions changed as they got to know her. At first they were jealous and resentful14 of her, new prisoners not being especially well-treated by others when first incarcerated anyway, but over time the attitude changed and in the end she was well-liked and appreciated.15

I can't help but wonder just how Sharon Feinstein 'found' these two who are trying to peddle the 'Foxy Knoxy' mythology of the 'Cold as Ice manipulative 'actress' who never cries some four years after its expiration date. I imagine she might have contacted the prison to find the guard, but what would be especially telling would be how 'Vittoria' was uncovered. Did the guard 'recommend' her as a 'corroborating' witness? Did she 'coincidentally' contact Sharon Feinstein when she happened to be in Italy?

The reason I am most curious about this is with the sexual harassment issue, which according to Bob Graham here in the Sun, might lead to an inquiry,16 Capanne prison might be in an unsavory position. Italy has a good reputation for humane prisons, confirmed by none other than Rudy Guede in his diary when he hoped to be quickly extradited as he'd far prefer an Italian prison cell to a German one, however Amanda Knox received some 'special treatment' in their hands that wasn't related to computer use or letting her parents visit when they were in Italy, most probably related to attempt to break her down and confess. While guards and inmates continually propositioning her for sex and harassing her might well titillate Italians during the age of bunga-bunga, and tabloid readers no doubt might get a secret thrill as well, it might not sit well with others and with Amanda in some respects they went beyond the pale.


1
Originally Posted by Candace Dempsey's blog
Amanda: Yes, there is a doctor. I took a medicine for a headache this morning, and now I feel better, but the reason I was crying yesterday evening is because there was this pressure on my head that wouldn’t go away because I felt horrible, this person looked at me as if I was a horrible person and I collapsed.

Edda: Like I said, the lawyers believe that they are doing it on purpose, because they have nothing at all, so they are trying to put pressure on like when they interrogated you to see if you would say something more and so you have to keep calm and do not say anything to anyone.
Amanda: Yeah, when I was in the room with him I said what? … (Laughs) and then when I returned to my room I was crying. I’m very, very worried for this thing about the knife… because there is a knife from Raffaele …
Curt: Well, here, here, here are the facts… we talked yesterday with the lawyer and asked him about the knife. Every time that they have to review an item we have an expert there that will review it with them. This is an example of… this knife of which they are talking about, they have never notified anything about the knife.
Edda: So, it’s BS!
Amanda: Is it BS?
Edda: It’s ********.
Curt: It’s complete BS. It’s a total fabrication.
Edda: That’s what they’re doing now. They are simply lying.
Curt: It’s all a fabrication…
Edda: Yes, to make someone break down.

2
Originally Posted by Fox/Times 11-12-07
Police in the Italian city of Perugia said that the image was "clear cut," and flatly contradicted Knox's latest version of events, in which she reverted to her original assertion that she had spent the night of the murder with her Italian boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, and was not at the whitewashed cottage she shared with Kercher and two Italian female students.
3
Originally Posted by Nick Pisa Daily Mail 10/24/08
In one conversation she told her parents that her cell mate Rosa 'whispered to me one night if I would like to have sex with her'.

She added: 'It's because I'm pretty and they all like me.'

Earlier this year Knox revealed in her diary how a warder at the prison had also begged her for sex.
4
Originally Posted by IBT 10/11/2011
Harassed by Guards and High Ranking Jail Officials

On one occasion, a male guard allegedly entered Knox's cell alone, despite a policy against it, and made sexual remarks, ABC News reported.
5
Originally Posted by Haaretz 9/10/2011
"We learn about sexual harassment inside prison where an administrator would take her up to his office alone at night and say a number of inappropriate things to her, and that left Amanda terrified," CBS correspondent Peter Van Sant said ahead of a special broadcast due to be aired last night.
6[quote=Nick Pisa Daily Mail 10/24/08]
However she also complained of how her fingernails were broken and her hands worn because: 'Rosa makes me clean the cell the whole time.

'She is a fanatic she spends the whole day cleaning and scrubbing and she makes me do it as well - my hands are worn and my fingernails broken.'

7
Originally Posted by Nikki Battisti ABC 7/8/10
Amanda Knox will celebrate her 23rd birthday in an Italian prison with a birthday cake made by her cellmate and then later crab cakes to be cooked up on a camp stove in her cell.
8
Originally Posted by CSM 7/8/10
Jailed American student Amanda Knox will cook crab cakes on the floor of her sweltering Italian prison cell on Friday as she marks her 23rd birthday – her third behind bars since being arrested and then found guilty of murdering her British room-mate.
9
Originally Posted by Komo 10/10/11
In Perugia's Capanne prison, Knox spent 22 hours most days inside an 18-by-13-foot cell she shared with at least one and sometimes as many as three inmates. The cell had one bathroom, a small TV, an electric pan cooker and a tiny radio, according to People magazine.

"Amanda would wake up early, make herself coffee, then go out for one of her two hours of outdoor time," her mother told People magazine, adding that Amanda tried to stay fit by walking in the courtyard and doing exercises in her cell.

Knox also was able to make productive use of her time in prison - cooking, learning Italian and keeping a journal.
10
Originally Posted by Judy Bachrach quoted in Komo 10/10/11
And according to Vanity Fair magazine writer Judy Bachrach, she was also harassed by female inmates.

"I think the Italian courts, the first time around, practically made sure that Amanda was going to be harassed in prison since they made her sex life so much a focus of the first trial," Bachrach told ABC News. "They said constantly that she was a girl without morals.

The harassment allegedly stopped only when her attorney complained, Bachrach reports.

"I know that in the case of the female prisoners who harassed Amanda Knox sexually that it didn't go to the limit," she says. "In other words, gradually, Amanda Knox learned how to fend off unwanted advances from female prisoners."
11
Originally Posted by ABC Mark Mooney 12/14/09
Knox's cell, which she shares with another American who has been sentenced on drug charges, is small. "It had a little bathroom with a door, a bidet, a sink, a shower.... better than some of the things I've seen at summer camp or boarding school."
12
Originally Posted by Tom Kington Guardian 9/17/11
The nickname of "Bambi" given to Knox by her jailers now seems very appropriate.
13
Originally Posted by Natonson & Curry 10/4/11
Amanda Knox's last hours in Italy were marked by a wild hero's welcome at the prison where she spent the past four years, a James Bond-like car ride to elude pursuing media and a police escort to her plane out of Italy.

<...>

What wasn't in Daclon's plans was the raucous greeting Knox received when she returned to Capanne prison following her stunning acquittal on murder charges by an Italian appeals court. Knox and her ex-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito spent four years in the prison for the murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher before they were acquitted Monday.

"All the prisoners, 500 or 600 of them, started to greet Amanda from the windows, like soccer stardom," Daclon said. "It's difficult to describe the happiness of them seeing Amanda and greeting her and seeing her free now -- yelling, 'Oh, wow, ciao Amanda!' It was really, really incredible emotion."

Daclon said Knox walked back into the prison through its central square, surrounded by blocks and blocks of prison buildings with small windows. Two to three prisoners crammed into each small window, cheering and waving clothing in the air, like flags.

"All the prison was greeting her like a champion," he said.

An elated Knox returned the greeting.

"She was moved and jumped two times to greet them. She was so touched, you can't imagine," Corrado said.

Knox walked through the cheers to collect her belongings from her cell. She then bid farewell to her cellmate and the other girls and some of the police guards, he said.

"They always said that Amanda is a model prisoner, perfect. Never one argument in four years, never one problem with guards or other prisoners. The perfect behavior. ... But I didn't expect a reaction like this," he said.

"Imagine, to see so many people, like a Hollywood movie, looking out of the windows, greeting Amanda and waving clothes. She was moved, like us, to see a show like this," he said.
14
Originally Posted by Barbie Nadeau Daily Beast 9/14/10
Knox’s infamy in the prison reached its height during the prosecution’s case against her. “Very bad things were going around about Amanda among the inmates,” De Jesus writes. They were gossiping about various aspects of the testimony, especially the allegations of sexual assault and Knox’s promiscuity, any chance they got.

Throughout the trial, De Jesus says the other inmates were fixated on the news of Kercher’s murder, but no one spoke directly to Knox about her trial. Instead, they largely ignored her to her face, not wanting to acknowledge her celebrity status. Knox also got special treatment as the star convict, including special visitation hours when her family was in town and leniency of the general rules, including not having to be handcuffed in court. This angered some of the other detainees. It didn’t help that Knox also got sackloads of mail and attention from parliamentarians and lawyers that made the rest of the population burn with envy.
15
Originally Posted by Barbie Nadeau Daily Beast 9/14/10
Then De Jesus was suddenly transferred again and didn’t return until March 2010. She says she followed the end of the trial, watching the verdict and wondering about her friend in Capanne. When she returned to the prison nearly eight months later, the younger Amanda was back. The inmates were celebrating the Feast of San Giuseppe and all of the female inmates were dancing and singing in the common area. “She was so light-hearted, singing, jumping and dancing and talking to everyone,” De Jesus writes, wondering if the end of the trial and, in turn, her decreased celebrity made Knox a more acceptable member of the prison population. “I saw the beautiful angel once more.”
16
Originally Posted by Bob Graham The Sun 12/3/11
Knox's account of her questioning by the guard is set to become a key part of demands for an inquiry into her treatment in jail.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:19 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
But I thought I had read here over and over ad nauseam that all Marriott ever did was handle media requests for the family.
What do you think handling media requests for the family entails?

Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
Did I miss "damage control"?
You mean like telling friends and family not to talk the tabloids and e-mailing especially gullible reporters and being blown1 off and having them sniggering amongst themselves? You know, that ought to have been a huge hint that the legendary and entirely imaginary 'PR Supertanker' couldn't possibly have the powers some contended...


Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
Isn't that something a million dollar PR Supertanker might be called on to do ??
Maybe I read elsewhere that Marriott was really a million dollar Supertanker for Knox who would do damage control .
Show me any evidence at all, outside bald assertions, that there was ever a million dollars spent on a 'PR campaign.' Where do you think that money might have come from with the Knox and Mellas families mortgaged to the hilt to pay for four years of lawyers, experts, airfare, maintaining two residences and other expenses?



Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
BTW:
1) The "strange people" Cellmate that was interviewed lived in the same cell with Knox for 3 years
What did you think of her? Did you think her bullying of Amanda justified for those 'offenses?' Did you get the impression she'd take any small fault or oddness in Amanda's behavior and make a huge deal out of it and never let it go? Do you like people like that?

Incidentally, as an aside, is it even possible she was Amanda's cellmate for three years? Off the top of my head Amanda was roomed with that 50 year-old American woman with the drug conviction, that Moldavian woman who was convicted of murder than Amanda thought innocent, and other cellmates she liked, so where does this 'Vittoria' fit in?

I wonder if perhaps she might have exaggerated a little?

Originally Posted by pilot padron View Post
2) The 'damage control' spin, interpretations, and the usual 'anything bad cannot be true' mentality here as well as the usual personal attacks on the messenger's past are ever so reminiscent of Yogi Berra's deja vous all over again.
Of course it feels like deja vu, it's 'Foxy Knoxy' redux! It's so out of date it smells like milk that got forgotten in the back of the refrigerator. Do you believe it? Does it square with the rest of the information about Amanda in prison from various sources I recently posted?

Note, both of those might have believed the nonsense they spouted, but if you're a careful reader you might have noted that their examples didn't justify their assertions. That suggests they might well have simply believed what the TV and papers were telling them about Amanda--the prosecution's contention--that she was simply manipulative and an 'actress' when in fact all that was at work was confirmation bias and they simply interpreted anything that didn't fit their expectation as 'acting' when in fact it was what Amanda was really like. The fact that what they were saying constituted 'examples' comes across as petty and irrelevant strongly suggests that. They had to search for things to condemn her for and it all came across as extremely lame when you think on it, didn't it?

Pick out the most damaging contentions and the examples they provided and let's discuss them.

1
Originally Posted by Barbie Nadeau Daily Beast 4/1/10
As he spoon-fed the Knox-approved message to American outlets that couldn’t afford to send correspondents to Italy, those of us on the ground in Perugia began passing his contradictory e-mails around as entertainment during the long days in the court.
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Old 2nd December 2011, 11:27 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Addendum: Ms. Feinstein contacted me further, and said she did travel to Perugia, and spent over 7 hours and was very careful with her writing of the pieces. I told her that she might send the piece to the Associated Press. If it is legitimate writing, as it would appear to be, then it should be distributed, and then others may refute it, or offer an alternative account of their own, as need be. I was quite surprised at the accounts from the cellmates and warden, as they were so at variance with what I had read before. But she seems in earnest, as a writer, so I respect that, in any case.
Since you have established something of a relationship, could you ask her something? I am most curious how she ended up interviewing that specific inmate. I suspect she might have been selected purposely by that guard as 'corroboration' because others would not have given those answers. I also don't think it impossible this 'Vittoria' wasn't colluding with the guards to help 'break down' Amanda and/or question her about the murder in order to provide possible evidence for the trial. Her story suggests she was rooming with Amanda in 2007-2008 when Mignini was putting together his case and the prison officials were collaborating with the prosecution with the diary, HIV test, and the 'breaking down' techniques suggested in the 'I was there' taped conversation.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 01:35 AM   #174
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I know some people have been wondering why Feinstein failed to sell her piece to a tabloid, but the blog says right at the top of the page that it was published in "The People" on November 6th. Presumably she's already been paid by the Mirror Group and can't just sell the story again to some other newspaper.

The People's online presence is rather limited. The only story I can find that might be this one is here, but this is plainly incomplete, so I imagine the rest of the interviews were printed in the paper, but not on the website, which is why Feinstein has put them on her website (if she hadn't done nobody who hadn't bought The People on 6th November - and I don't know anybody who does buy it - would know she had done the interviews.

Presumably the People's website is intended to encourage you to buy the newspaper, rather than simply duplicate its contents.

Just thought this information would be helpful in the interests of accuracy, though naturally it doesn't make the story itself any more relevant to the guilt or innocence of Knox or Sollecito.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 03:39 AM   #175
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It reads like plain, garden-variety bitchery. It's anybody's guess whether it has even the vaguest resemblance to reality as it actually existed inside that jail. I suspect it's been greatly sexed-up for shock value, either by the interviewer or the interviewees - quite possibly both.

However, what is it? It's an anecdotal account from two much older Italian woman, about an American girl of 20. It's an account of a girl who had embarked on the foreign study venture of a lifetime, and was suddenly thrown in jail on a murder charge, away from friends and family and even people who spoke her own language. Who knows how anyone might behave, or cope, in a situation like that? Is it reasonable to assume their behaviour would be normal, or even understandable?

Also what London John said. It's completely irrelevant whether Amanda Knox was an insufferable bitch who never took a bath. Insufferable bitches who never bathe go through their entire lives without murdering people all the time.

Rolfe.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 03:44 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by Supernaut View Post
Don't affect superiority with me.

I'm quite aware that Italian phone directories are filled with thousands upon thousands of entries titled "dottore" - dentists, chiropodists etc'.

If they were to settle in any other Western country and continue their vocations there, they'd find themselves in a tad of trouble were they to continues calling themselves "doctor".

It seems like so very long ago that I was researching Stephanoni's use of the title and one of the places it showed up was in the abstract for a conference. I don't recall offhand what country that conference was in but if that world renowned expert were using the title of Doctor outside of Italy, wouldn't that have some ethical considerations?
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A text message was found to have been sent at 8:35PM of November 1st by KNOX's number to that of her co-defendant Patrick, in which she wrote "Ci vediamo dopo" ["See you later" or lit: "We'll see each other after"] thus confirming that in the following hours KNOX would find herself with Patrick in the apartment where the victim was. -- Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini (Order for arrests)
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Old 3rd December 2011, 04:04 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Addendum: Ms. Feinstein contacted me further, and said she did travel to Perugia, and spent over 7 hours and was very careful with her writing of the pieces. I told her that she might send the piece to the Associated Press. If it is legitimate writing, as it would appear to be, then it should be distributed, and then others may refute it, or offer an alternative account of their own, as need be. I was quite surprised at the accounts from the cellmates and warden, as they were so at variance with what I had read before. But she seems in earnest, as a writer, so I respect that, in any case.
I suspect she was handed this story. It is simply a way the prison has chosen to respond to Amanda's claims of harassment while in prison. She said bad things about them, now it is their turn to respond. This reminds me of the "drug dealer on speed dial" story in response to revelations about Curatolo. Previous stories about her prison life showed she was well-liked, now this one. What has changed?
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Old 3rd December 2011, 06:02 AM   #178
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Sharon Feinstein's interviews seems pretty genuine to me. It's slanted, and it seems the two people interviewed didn't like Amanda, but there is nothing in it that seems an outright lie. The interviews do seem a bit disjointed - very short nuggets, rather than a smooth conversational flow, and somewhat inconsistent. I wonder if she has taken short sentences out of context from a much longer interview.

I'd be interested in whether this was commissioned by anyone, where the contacts came from, how much if anything the interviewees were paid, etc. I also wonder who the inmate was - her full name seems to have been withheld. She served 14 years, which is quite a long sentence, suggesting a fairly serious offence.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 07:29 AM   #179
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I just finished Follain's book.

I'm stunned. It's really bad. I'll write more later.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 07:42 AM   #180
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So basically people who have known Amandaly closely for decades think she's a great person, and people she didnt talk to think she's a murderess.

Do you think her lawyers might have instructed her not to speak to the police/jailers?
And wasnt it the Warden, or a jailer, who was trying to only speak of sex with her all the time in a perverted manner? The lying HIV prison doctor, the other's who were not so kind. She was probably smart in not speaking to them.

I find the "smell/bad hygeine" somment interesting too.

Last time this was mentioned was Nov 2, by a police, but the smell insinuated she was cleaning the cottage after a night of a satanic sex orgy....now it means something totally different, and unrelated to cleaning up a murder.

Arm Chair Psychologist's and everyone's a Profiler now it seems.... geeez
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Old 3rd December 2011, 08:45 AM   #181
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Here we go again.... :(

I was very upset to find that someone from pmf alerted poor Ms. Feinstein, who was nothing but polite and kind to me via email, that I had a "hidden agenda" and was posting about her on JREF. I am a very uncomplicated person, and my motives are always honest and above board.

Knox can be defended in the appropriate channels, as I am sure she will. This will not negate Ms. Feinstein's interviews and hard work, but serve as a counterbalance, as all good journalists know.

After receiving her email, which she signed, "In Disappointment", here is what I have replied to her:

Quote:
Dear Ms. Feinstein:

If you read what I have posted on JREF, it is a strong DEFENSE of your methods, and your legitimacy. Others, including myself, had questioned you at first, but as a fellow writer, I have come out very strongly in my RESPECT of you and your methods, and my belief that your material is LEGITIMATE and very worthy of distribution.

If anyone wants to refute it, they must do so in appropriate terms. I ask that you PLEASE read what I have posted on JREF, and you will see that all I say is true.

I believed, naturally enough , that you would see what I posted in a google search.
Very warmest regards and respectfully yours;
Susan M Kovalinsky
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Old 3rd December 2011, 08:57 AM   #182
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Finishing up

After receiving a gracious apology from Ms. Feinstein, I informed her that, as is my belief, in the marketplace of ideas, there is nothing to fear, and all sides may be examined:

Quote:
. . . I have supported Knox's innocence BUT am a great believer that ALL facts must be presented, with no attempt at concealment in any way. Thus, your work should have a voice equal to those who would paint a different picture of Ms. Knox.
Warm regards;
SMK
Finis.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:13 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by geebee2 View Post
Sharon Feinstein's interviews seems pretty genuine to me. It's slanted, and it seems the two people interviewed didn't like Amanda, but there is nothing in it that seems an outright lie. The interviews do seem a bit disjointed - very short nuggets, rather than a smooth conversational flow, and somewhat inconsistent. I wonder if she has taken short sentences out of context from a much longer interview.

I'd be interested in whether this was commissioned by anyone, where the contacts came from, how much if anything the interviewees were paid, etc. I also wonder who the inmate was - her full name seems to have been withheld. She served 14 years, which is quite a long sentence, suggesting a fairly serious offence.
I would agree. I believe Knox's innocence is not so fragile a thing that it cannot withstand some harsher lights being shown on her character. As Ms. Feinstein agreed with me, as thinkers and writers in the marketplace of ideas, we should never be afraid of truths, but freely exchange them, and add them as "grist for the mill" within our judgments and purviews.

Democratic principles of nonconcealment should be safeguarded vigilantly.

There has been talk that Knox may have some mild form of Asperger syndrome, and for me, these pieces shed light on this possible impairment.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:20 AM   #184
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Addendum: Ms. Feinstein contacted me further, and said she did travel to Perugia, and spent over 7 hours and was very careful with her writing of the pieces. I told her that she might send the piece to the Associated Press. If it is legitimate writing, as it would appear to be, then it should be distributed, and then others may refute it, or offer an alternative account of their own, as need be. I was quite surprised at the accounts from the cellmates and warden, as they were so at variance with what I had read before. But she seems in earnest, as a writer, so I respect that, in any case.
Well, I'd will wait a bit to declare it legitimate writing.

Regardless I expect the prosecution to use this story in their appeal.

Feinstein has written stories for the Daily Mail so she does have the contacts to sell a story such as this. Who else writes for the DM besides Nick Pisa? Why wouldn't this be a Nick Pisa story? Did the "warden" just call her up?

Just checked and I don't see this story picked up by anybody else, which doesn't make sense.

Strange how this story has attracted so many "reporters" that are female travel/restaurant stringer/bloggers that seem to have these "jobs" as hobbies.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:29 AM   #185
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Originally Posted by Katody Matrass View Post
Wow Can't help but wonder why the freelance journo failed to sell this bomb of a piece to any tabloid. Let's look for an answer on her blog:

Well, it appears that she may have had this piece published in The People (a downmarket UK national Sunday tabloid) almost a month ago, on 6th November (or "06 NOV 2011" ). However, there are three somewhat strange things about this: firstly, the article does not appear to be archived on The People's website (there are a few other archived pieces from Feinstein, but not this one); secondly, Feinstein appears to have used her own publishing software to create a mocked-up facsimile of the Knox story for her website:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/mai...anda_Knox.html

The formatting, typeface, photo byline and picture captioning all appear to be at odds with those normally used on the online edition of The People. It would indeed be very strange if Feinstein were "recreating" her pieces in the style of newspaper articles for her own website.....

And thirdly, Feinstein's twitter page makes no contemporaneous mention of the piece appearing in The People on 6th November 2011. One would imagine that a freelance journalist who has very, very little work published would probably mention the publication of a "world exclusive" article in a UK national newspaper on her twitter page, but not a word from her on twitter between 31st October and 10th November. This contrasts markedly with her excitement on twitter over the way in which the article has been picked up over the past few days.

As a small piece of background on Feinstein: she is a very unremarkable and unsuccessful UK-based journalist, who was once the mistress of UK newspaper baron David Montgomery, by whom she has a child and (I imagine) a decent income. I hope that she's not *ahem* embellishing this article or the circumstances surrounding its publication. She most definitely is not a significant player in the UK newspaper industry, and is in the same position as Nadeau, Vogt and Pisa of having to hawk individual stories for money.

But, as I said before, all of the stuff in this "world exclusive" - if some or all of it is actually true - is only of interest to those with a prurient interest in Knox's personal habits and interpersonal skills. It is of no interest to anyone whose primary interest is in the relationship between Knox (and Sollecito) and the murder of Meredith Kercher. It's simply irrelevant in that regard. Some people elsewhere allege that pro-acquittal or pro-innocence arguers have always tried to insist that Knox is a "whiter-than-white" individual who is near-angelic. But to me (and, I suspect, many other rational commentators), I've never believed this, and nor have I wanted or needed to believe it. Perhaps it's more a case of projection by those pro-guilt commentators who have always found it necessary to believe that Meredith Kercher was close to sainthood (and an inevitable path to greatness had she lived). Sad and illogical thinking, unfortunately. Oh, and Pilot, it was stollen I was making, not strudel
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:44 AM   #186
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
After receiving a gracious apology from Ms. Feinstein, I informed her that, as is my belief, in the marketplace of ideas, there is nothing to fear, and all sides may be examined:
That's great and everything, but it doesn't change the fact that this piece is just irrelevant gossip and an invasion of privacy. Whether Knox washes a lot, a little or not at all is nobody's business but hers and those she lives with.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:47 AM   #187
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I know some people have been wondering why Feinstein failed to sell her piece to a tabloid, but the blog says right at the top of the page that it was published in "The People" on November 6th. Presumably she's already been paid by the Mirror Group and can't just sell the story again to some other newspaper.

Just thought this information would be helpful in the interests of accuracy, though naturally it doesn't make the story itself any more relevant to the guilt or innocence of Knox or Sollecito.
Thanks for the search and sharing it. I still find it strange with her previous connection to the Daily Mail, their significant interest in the story and their direct connection to the Kerchers that she wasn't able to make a much better deal with them. If she chose to go with "The People" for some reason but retained the rights to publish elsewhere, it is odd that no one has published it online and in print. This is a much bigger story than pictures of her on the street drinking a latte.

The other commenters that have noted why the "warden" and Vittoria might be fabricating or why Amanda may have exhibited some of the behaviors make perfect sense.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:47 AM   #188
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Originally Posted by Kaosium View Post
Since you have established something of a relationship, could you ask her something? I am most curious how she ended up interviewing that specific inmate. I suspect she might have been selected purposely by that guard as 'corroboration' because others would not have given those answers. I also don't think it impossible this 'Vittoria' wasn't colluding with the guards to help 'break down' Amanda and/or question her about the murder in order to provide possible evidence for the trial. Her story suggests she was rooming with Amanda in 2007-2008 when Mignini was putting together his case and the prison officials were collaborating with the prosecution with the diary, HIV test, and the 'breaking down' techniques suggested in the 'I was there' taped conversation.
Yes; valid questions, and I recommend that you contact her yourself, via the website, as I did. I think she would be open to answering these, and other questions. She certainly seems a pleasant person.

As said, I have long supported Knox's innocence, and do not believe there is any danger posed by allowing input from all sides. As someone here has noted, a person may be poor in their hygiene habits and yet if the evidence acquits, this must be respected. In my youth I went through periods of depression in which I never wanted to shower. Of course I did shower, but if I could avoid it for days, I did. The writer Syliva Plath once went 18 days in the same shirt and pants without showering. Knox may have been depressed in jail.

The "flat affect" may also have stemmed from depression. She appeared clean and fresh when she appeared in court. Her troubles with her flatmates prior to the murder may have stemmed from some undiagnosed depression or Asperger syndrome. It is all "grist for the mill". Innocence is not contingent on any of these factors, but may have made her come across as suspicious to the law enforcement present at the cottage on that day.

From my brief communications with Ms. Feinstein, she appears open, honest, and without a particular agenda. I think there must be journalists who could interview other inmates who might have different things to say, without any need to attack Feinstein's work. Yes, the warden and cellmate may have been engaging in "bitchery", and the journalist caught it, and conveyed it to us.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 09:53 AM   #189
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[quote=Kaosium;7811593]Very interesting article, SMK, I took it a little differently than some might, as perhaps I put it in a different context, notably that prison life isn't very nice, there's some nasty people in there, and some of them like to amuse themselves by bullying others, after all they don't have much else to do much of the time. The other is that I tend to put things into context, and sometimes that additional knowledge will reveal information not quite intended by a person who thinks simply because they say something, it inherently makes it true, or excuses it. This article is rife with information very complimentary to Amanda and the internal inconsistencies of the article and additional context I will provide for this post suggests something--in more than one regard.

It doesn't appear to me that the author of the piece is especially 'harsh' with Amanda, however she is indeed reporting what seem to be especially nasty things about Amanda. It looks like Sharon Feinstein is new to this issue, a quick search revealed her name came up in connection with only this article after the verdict, and it doesn't seem she's inherently biased against Amanda, at least at that point.

I'd like to point out a number of things from the interviews that I find intriguing for various reasons. I find this especially 'friendly' guard interesting, how she expected 'gratitude' for comforting her mother and was so annoyed she didn't get it she remembered it years later and recounted it to explain how cold and bereft of compassion she was. What I wonder is why she expected gratitude from Amanda for that small gesture, and why it stuck with her all those years, it's pretty flimsy evidence of her contention, why would anyone automatically expect Amanda to be thankful to a guard for something like that and definitely outwardly express it? Why is this guard so 'friendly' and seemingly so interested in Amanda's thankfulness that she'd remember it?

There's a couple reasons that spring to mind, the first that this guard was part of the 'breaking down' mindgame process to get a confession prison officials played with her, which included the entirely bogus 'murder knife' as per what the lawyers told Curt Knox, detailed in the "I was there"1 prison conversation they recorded, along with what they claimed (at that time) was a 'clear cut' 2CCTV video they were holding over her head, which you can see here was an absurd lie, but of course a guilty Amanda wouldn't have known that; an innocent Amanda would obviously be unconcerned and know they were lying. Perhaps another part of this effort was the repellent HIV scheme in which they told her she had tested positive for HIV, which also netted them a list of former partners which they gave to the tabloids, except they pretended the list was only of her encounters in her two months in Italy as opposed to her entire lifetime as was actually the case.

There's another possibility, something in this Nick Pisa piece, where he notes the diaries released indicated that a 'warder' begged her for sex,3 which unfortunately was harassment she also received from a cellmate named "Rosa" as well as others, including male guards4 and high-ranking prison officials.5

As for the cellmate, I find it hilarious that she can't see for herself what a nasty vindictive bitch she is, how poorly she treated Amanda and how she thought her bullying, teasing and nastiness was justified for such minor 'offenses.' Amanda asks her to be quiet once at a time she was distraught and she 'repaid' her by blasting the TV every time she came on it, which no doubt often included the prosecution promoting yet another lie or part of the 'Foxy Knoxy' smear, which this unpleasant woman seemed to believe entirely. Amanda doesn't like second-hand smoke, so for daring to complain she makes sure to purposely smoke to annoy her further. She admits that she deliberately annoyed and taunted her, yet nothing Amanda ever did seemed to justify anything she did in revenge, and given the opportunity she'd do violence to her for all these imagined and/or petty offenses! I especially like the one where she tells Patricia who did her hair that it looked OK, but since she didn't say 'Thank You' specifically it becomes memorable enough to require an accounting years later. I wonder what it must have been like to be subject to the whims and bullying of people like this for years, knowing each and every lapse in their expectations would be brought up again and again? It sure must have been fun for Amanda having them tell her over and over that she'd be in jail for life!

Some of the claims in this piece are confusing, or at least reveal that these two are exaggerating the scope of their knowledge of Amanda's prison experience. For one thing as was revealed in that Nick Pisa piece already linked, Amanda early on received a 'lesson' in the cleaning6 of cells, lorded over by her cellmate 'Rosa,' who'd asked her for sex earlier in the piece. Come to think of it, this 'Vittoria' also mentions Amanda's 'vegetarian' phase, which is also included in that 2008 piece, so perhaps that is a nom de guerre for 'Rosa?' It sounds like 'Rosa' decided to make Amanda her little slave-girl, and perhaps this 'Vittoria' approved?

Another strange thing is how they claim Amanda never cooked, which belies the accounts of her little camp stove7 in her room and her cooking the crab cakes8 for her birthday. Note that this cellmate baked her a cake, she must be a different one than Sharon interviewed!

As for the hygiene 'issue,' I wonder if Judy Bachrach explains just how that might have come about here when she notes that Amanda learned to fend off the unwanted advances10 of her fellow inmates, and being as the shower was in their room,11 perhaps she wasn't overly enamored of showering in front of 'Vittoria?' It reminds me that I read Anne McCaffrey died recently, and I can't help but think of Lessa's 'strategy' for avoiding the attentions of the male conquerors when she was hiding amongst them as a drudge. If one is young, female, attractive and pretty much helpless amongst those who might desire you, staying dirty and unwashed might at least dissuade some seeking your attentions.

At any rate, I am extremely dubious of the verity of these two contemners, mainly because of possible motives above, and that it doesn't corroborate with more numerous accounts of her eventually becoming quite popular in prison, getting nicknamed 'Bambi'12 and the other indications such as them cheering her when she returned from testifying in the first trial, the ostentatious ovation she received after being acquitted during her release from prison by the rest of the inmates13, and other accounts of her time in prison such as the books written by Rocco Girlanda and Florisbela Inocencio de Jesus. The latter I think the most relevant in this case, here is a woman who also was interned with Amanda and as the rather and insightful nice article by Barbie Nadeau reveals, the problem here might have been the other prisoners and not so much Amanda, and she saw how their perceptions changed as they got to know her. At first they were jealous and resentful14 of her, new prisoners not being especially well-treated by others when first incarcerated anyway, but over time the attitude changed and in the end she was well-liked and appreciated.15

I can't help but wonder just how Sharon Feinstein 'found' these two who are trying to peddle the 'Foxy Knoxy' mythology of the 'Cold as Ice manipulative 'actress' who never cries some four years after its expiration date. I imagine she might have contacted the prison to find the guard, but what would be especially telling would be how 'Vittoria' was uncovered. Did the guard 'recommend' her as a 'corroborating' witness? Did she 'coincidentally' contact Sharon Feinstein when she happened to be in Italy?

The reason I am most curious about this is with the sexual harassment issue, which according to Bob Graham here in the Sun, might lead to an inquiry,16 Capanne prison might be in an unsavory position. Italy has a good reputation for humane prisons, confirmed by none other than Rudy Guede in his diary when he hoped to be quickly extradited as he'd far prefer an Italian prison cell to a German one, however Amanda Knox received some 'special treatment' in their hands that wasn't related to computer use or letting her parents visit when they were in Italy, most probably related to attempt to break her down and confess. While guards and inmates continually propositioning her for sex and harassing her might well titillate Italians during the age of bunga-bunga, and tabloid readers no doubt might get a secret thrill as well, it might not sit well with others and with Amanda in some respects they went beyond the pale.


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Originally Posted by Nick Pisa Daily Mail 10/24/08
However she also complained of how her fingernails were broken and her hands worn because: 'Rosa makes me clean the cell the whole time.

'She is a fanatic she spends the whole day cleaning and scrubbing and she makes me do it as well - my hands are worn and my fingernails broken.'

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Lots of counterbalancing material here. This is why there is never a need to attack or refute a writer's material, if compiled legitimately. Counterbalance is the best method, and the free flow of ideas and information usually finds its own balance.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 10:00 AM   #190
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
So basically people who have known Amandaly closely for decades think she's a great person, and people she didnt talk to think she's a murderess.

Do you think her lawyers might have instructed her not to speak to the police/jailers?
And wasnt it the Warden, or a jailer, who was trying to only speak of sex with her all the time in a perverted manner? The lying HIV prison doctor, the other's who were not so kind. She was probably smart in not speaking to them.

I find the "smell/bad hygeine" somment interesting too.

Last time this was mentioned was Nov 2, by a police, but the smell insinuated she was cleaning the cottage after a night of a satanic sex orgy....now it means something totally different, and unrelated to cleaning up a murder.

Arm Chair Psychologist's and everyone's a Profiler now it seems.... geeez
I had thought, too, that she likely had been advised by her attorneys not to speak in any way of the crime.

I think these recent vignettes were come by honestly by the journalist, and rather than the need to "shoot the messenger", there will probably be an attempt by some journalists to compile contradictory material. It's the democratic way, and usually balances things out in the end....
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Old 3rd December 2011, 10:07 AM   #191
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Changing the subject.

Am I remembering correctly that Amanda attended the concert where she met Raffaele with Meredith. Were any of the English girlfriends with them? Were any of Amanda's roommates or building mates with them?

It would appear that Meredith went with Amanda as a friend. After that Amanda is said to have spent most of her time with Raffaele, at school and working. I'm having a problem figuring out when and why Meredith stopped being friends with her.

Any guesses as to when the Hellmann report will appear? My guess is the 23rd of December.

Does anybody know if he will have to address every Massei theory or if he can just say that none of the evidence is enough to get to beyond reasonable doubt pointing out that prints don't match, that witnesses aren't reliable and time lines for the kids to be involved don't work.

Kaosium said something about staying unwashed to reduce her attractiveness. there used to be a debt collector who wouldn't wash and would sit in the waiting room of a company until they paid their bill. It worked.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 10:30 AM   #192
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Changing the subject.

Am I remembering correctly that Amanda attended the concert where she met Raffaele with Meredith. Were any of the English girlfriends with them? Were any of Amanda's roommates or building mates with them?

It would appear that Meredith went with Amanda as a friend. After that Amanda is said to have spent most of her time with Raffaele, at school and working. I'm having a problem figuring out when and why Meredith stopped being friends with her.

Any guesses as to when the Hellmann report will appear? My guess is the 23rd of December.

Does anybody know if he will have to address every Massei theory or if he can just say that none of the evidence is enough to get to beyond reasonable doubt pointing out that prints don't match, that witnesses aren't reliable and time lines for the kids to be involved don't work.

Kaosium said something about staying unwashed to reduce her attractiveness. there used to be a debt collector who wouldn't wash and would sit in the waiting room of a company until they paid their bill. It worked.
Why do you guess the 23rd of this month? In any case, I hope your are right.

Yes, Knox was likely "on guard" re other females in the prison, and may have come across in the ways described for that reason.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 10:36 AM   #193
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
That's great and everything, but it doesn't change the fact that this piece is just irrelevant gossip and an invasion of privacy. Whether Knox washes a lot, a little or not at all is nobody's business but hers and those she lives with.
Yes, I would agree that these remarks convey a certain "Knox" by a couple of people who knew her at close proximity for sometime; nothwithstanding, it does not speak in any way badly of the acquittals. To be sure. I have defended the journalist for her presentation and work, but that does not mean I believe the material ought to be, or was even intended to be, relevant re the pending supreme court trial.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 10:54 AM   #194
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HUH? Cannot have it both ways

Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
That's great and everything, but it doesn't change the fact that this piece is just irrelevant gossip and an invasion of privacy. Whether Knox washes a lot, a little or not at all is nobody's business but hers and those she lives with.
Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post

As a small piece of background on Feinstein: she is a very unremarkable and unsuccessful UK-based journalist, who was once the mistress of UK newspaper baron David Montgomery, by whom she has a child and (I imagine) a decent income. I hope that she's not *ahem* embellishing this article or the circumstances surrounding its publication. She most definitely is not a significant player in the UK newspaper industry, and is in the same position as Nadeau, Vogt and Pisa of having to hawk individual stories for money.
Oh how we expose our disturbing lack of logic when arguing with such obvious agenda driven bias.

Speaking of Knox's odors and lack of hygiene as reported by a named Cellmate in a documented Article is just gossip and nobody's business.
It is irrelevant gossip and even (horrors) an invasion of privacy

But speaking ill about that horrid messenger who wrote the Article, Ms Feinstein, being a mistress and having an illegitimate child, without even a hint of documentation, is in the best tradition of skeptical arguing.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 10:59 AM   #195
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
I know some people have been wondering why Feinstein failed to sell her piece to a tabloid, but the blog says right at the top of the page that it was published in "The People" on November 6th. Presumably she's already been paid by the Mirror Group and can't just sell the story again to some other newspaper.

The People's online presence is rather limited. The only story I can find that might be this one is here, but this is plainly incomplete, so I imagine the rest of the interviews were printed in the paper, but not on the website, which is why Feinstein has put them on her website (if she hadn't done nobody who hadn't bought The People on 6th November - and I don't know anybody who does buy it - would know she had done the interviews.

Presumably the People's website is intended to encourage you to buy the newspaper, rather than simply duplicate its contents.

Just thought this information would be helpful in the interests of accuracy, though naturally it doesn't make the story itself any more relevant to the guilt or innocence of Knox or Sollecito.
I have heard an editor at a major paper has shown definite interest. I won't mention the paper as I assume the contract is pending and should thus be respected; in any case, it will be clear at publication. ( Presumably, the pieces would be presented with the chance for other anecdotes and views and of course letters to the editor to be forthcoming and in the mix. : I believe it is true that this medium is unbiased, receptive, and balanced: Traits which have always distinguish them in all things.)

I do not think this journalist herself has any agenda, nor do I believe there is anything to fear re Knox's innocence. If, as has been conjectured, the prosecution uses this material in their appeal, then the defense can counter with their own vignettes and interviews.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:33 AM   #196
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Changing the subject.

Am I remembering correctly that Amanda attended the concert where she met Raffaele with Meredith. Were any of the English girlfriends with them? Were any of Amanda's roommates or building mates with them?

It would appear that Meredith went with Amanda as a friend. After that Amanda is said to have spent most of her time with Raffaele, at school and working. I'm having a problem figuring out when and why Meredith stopped being friends with her.

Any guesses as to when the Hellmann report will appear? My guess is the 23rd of December.

Does anybody know if he will have to address every Massei theory or if he can just say that none of the evidence is enough to get to beyond reasonable doubt pointing out that prints don't match, that witnesses aren't reliable and time lines for the kids to be involved don't work.

Kaosium said something about staying unwashed to reduce her attractiveness. there used to be a debt collector who wouldn't wash and would sit in the waiting room of a company until they paid their bill. It worked.
Yes, the timeline is so short, that one wonders how a friendship would even have become solid enough to deteriorate: This usually occurs over months, not weeks. And yes, I believe MK attended the concert with Knox. Good question about the motivation, hope someone can answer who knows.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:48 AM   #197
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Kaosium View Post
I have supported Knox's innocence BUT am a great believer that ALL facts must be presented, with no attempt at concealment in any way. Thus, your work should have a voice equal to those who would paint a different picture of Ms. Knox.
Warm regards;
SMK

Note, both of those might have believed the nonsense they spouted, but if you're a careful reader you might have noted that their examples didn't justify their assertions. That suggests they might well have simply believed what the TV and papers were telling them about Amanda--the prosecution's contention--that she was simply manipulative and an 'actress' when in fact all that was at work was confirmation bias and they simply interpreted anything that didn't fit their expectation as 'acting' when in fact it was what Amanda was really like. The fact that what they were saying constituted 'examples' comes across as petty and irrelevant strongly suggests that. They had to search for things to condemn her for and it all came across as extremely lame when you think on it, didn't it?
Yes, I think there was confirmation bias at work; again, not on the part of the journalist, but of the subjects themselves. Many people interested will be careful readers, and intuit this to some degree.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:00 PM   #198
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I don't know which part of the "Amanda in Prison" article is accurate, and as LJ stated, it really doesn't matter. I also agree with Kaosium in that a lot of what is said in that story is actually complimentary to Amanda if one does not start out with some negative view of her. She refused to take drugs, she was not that open to these inmates that were treating her horribly, etc. Seems like what I would do if I were in prison in a foreign country with criminals and I was innocent.

What I have always found odd is the expectations people have for Amanda's behavior, in jail, and out. What would they do if they were tossed into jail in Italy under similar circumstances? Picture this: you are 20 years old, a woman, and there are all sorts of false stories being told about you. You say something as innocuous as "I was there, I can't lie about it ... I have nothing to fear from the truth", and people are trying to use that against you to convict you of murder. You are surrounded by strangers who are either in jail for murder, rape, theft, etc., or prison guards who are either trying to get you to admit to the murder, or hitting on you for sex.

If this was me, I would probably stay as much to myself as possible, and say as little as possible to anyone. I would be frightened to shower in the cell with these people there. People seem to forget this was a prison, not summer camp. This is a girl who's only connection to law enforcement was having a cop come to her door and tell her the band was too loud at a party. It's a wonder she didn't spend days on end curled up crying.

It also seems odd that Amanda, on the one hand, has been portrayed as "freshed faced, like soap and water", and then alternatively as dirty and unhygenic. I think people spend way too much time trying to take innocent, day to day behavior, and make it mean something it doesn't mean.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:24 PM   #199
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flatmates

Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
The "flat affect" may also have stemmed from depression. She appeared clean and fresh when she appeared in court. Her troubles with her flatmates prior to the murder may have stemmed from some undiagnosed depression or Asperger syndrome. It is all "grist for the mill". Innocence is not contingent on any of these factors, but may have made her come across as suspicious to the law enforcement present at the cottage on that day.
smkovalinksy,

I agree that Ms. Knox's behavior would probably be different in prison than it would have otherwise been. I am aware of no evidence to suggest that Ms. Knox has Asperger's. Ms. Knox looked up to Laura and generally got along with her flatmates (apart from minor annoyances), from what I can gather. i believe that Laura and Filomena's impressions of Amanda changed because she became a murder suspect.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:31 PM   #200
smkovalinksy
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FYI:

The author (Sharon Feinstein) has posted her response to the many comments @ this blog:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/blog/
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