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Tags Amanda Knox , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:48 AM   #201
Katody Matrass
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I know it's a sideshow but Ms Sharon Feinstein posted a reaction on her blog. She assures that the article definitely got printed but is not on the webpage. There are photos of Antonelli. No photos of Vittoria..
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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:52 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Why do you guess the 23rd of this month? In any case, I hope your are right.

Yes, Knox was likely "on guard" re other females in the prison, and may have come across in the ways described for that reason.
I believe that it is due right after the new year - 90 days from Oct. 3 would be Jan. 1st. Hellmann would certainly like to have it done by Christmas and the 23rd would be the best way to lose the story as much as possible in the holidays.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:18 PM   #203
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Will Hellmann make more use of the Skype call Rudy made from Germany?

I think that his free admission of Amanda not being there should be given tremendous weight. Why in the world would he admit to being there when Meredith was stabbed and dies yet definitively state Amanda wasn't there? He could have said he didn't see her but heard a female voice speaking English.

If she had tricked him into being there while she and Raffaele killed Meredith, I just can't see why he would protect her. If he didn't admit to being there, then of course he could know who was there. Exactly why Amanda couldn't swear Patrick was innocent.

The PGP would have gone crazy if Amanda had come out and said Patrick was innocent as they would contend correctly only someone there could know that.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:35 PM   #204
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Why do you guess the 23rd of this month? In any case, I hope your are right.

Yes, Knox was likely "on guard" re other females in the prison, and may have come across in the ways described for that reason.

Hellmann's report has to be published within 90 days of the reading of the verdict. The verdict came on 3rd October ("03 OCT 2011"), and 90 days from that date is 1st January 2012 ("01 JAN 2012"). Since this obviously conflicts with the New Years Day holiday, and since I suspect that Italian judiciary operates at less than full speed between Christmas and New Year, I'd say that it's not unreasonable to speculate that the report might be published just before Christmas.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:38 PM   #205
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
I had thought, too, that she likely had been advised by her attorneys not to speak in any way of the crime.

I think these recent vignettes were come by honestly by the journalist, and rather than the need to "shoot the messenger", there will probably be an attempt by some journalists to compile contradictory material. It's the democratic way, and usually balances things out in the end....
interesting article none the less, an insight of the case from the guilters view.

you had better luck than me with the contacting the journalist attempt...
I tried with Kate Mansey and she never explained her article to me.
I wondered if hers was recorded? Kate Mansey did the very early article speaking to Raffaele. It was a odd article, confusing in a way.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 12:55 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Yes, I think there was confirmation bias at work; again, not on the part of the journalist, but of the subjects themselves. Many people interested will be careful readers, and intuit this to some degree.

I can't help thinking you're being a little idealistic about the motivation and role of Feinstein, and about the issue of "free press balance" being the means to redress any balance. While I wouldn't of course suggest that Feinstein has any latent anti-Knox agenda, I think you ought to understand that she has a very strong agenda in a different (but related) area: she needs to sell sensational/provocative stories to newspapers in order to get any money.

Look at it this way: imagine if Feinstein had gone to Perugia and had found a warden and a former cellmate who both said something along the lines of "Yeah, Amanda was OK, she was pretty quiet, polite, didn't cause trouble etc". Now imagine filing a freelance piece using this information. Imagine its potential title: "Knox was quite nice and unremarkable while she was in prison, say warden and cellmate". Now imagine whether a news/features editor of a major print publication is going to get excited by this story. I think you can guess the outcome: no freelance commission. No story in the paper. No payment.

Therefore regardless of Feinstein's feelings about Knox (for all I know, she might be a strong believer in Knox's total innocence), it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there's only one potential angle on a story about Knox's time in prison that makes any possible commercial sense to a writer like her. And what's more, no other journalist - even if they feel that the warden/cellmate have badly misrepresented Knox - will ever be inclined to research (far less write) a "corrective" piece by (for instance) interviewing other wardens/cellmates who might provide a more positive picture of Knox. The reason why such a "corrective" piece will never be written is easy if you stop to think about it for a moment: what media outlet is ever going to want to run a story along these lines: "Amanda not as bad as one warder and cellmate allege, say other warders and inmates who shared Knox's prison" It's a total and utter non-story, and it's naive and idealistic to pretend that anything like this would ever happen.

Basically, no media outlet in the entire world wants to hear anything about Knox being somewhat ordinary while she was in prison. That's a total non-story. In fact, the world's media aren't really interested at all in what Knox was like in prison, since it's not part of the agenda (which is one reason why the Feinstein article never made it beyond a single down-market Sunday tabloid). If there's more about possible sexual harassment, then that would be a juicy media story, for obvious reasons. But all the media want now is 1) reporting on how Knox is "readjusting to normal life", with a particular focus on her love life; and 2) Knox's own story on her entire ordeal.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 01:01 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
I have heard an editor at a major paper has shown definite interest. I won't mention the paper as I assume the contract is pending and should thus be respected; in any case, it will be clear at publication. ( Presumably, the pieces would be presented with the chance for other anecdotes and views and of course letters to the editor to be forthcoming and in the mix. : I believe it is true that this medium is unbiased, receptive, and balanced: Traits which have always distinguish them in all things.)

I do not think this journalist herself has any agenda, nor do I believe there is anything to fear re Knox's innocence. If, as has been conjectured, the prosecution uses this material in their appeal, then the defense can counter with their own vignettes and interviews.

*sigh*

1) The article has been published already in a Sunday newspaper. Are you suggesting that either Feinstein or The People (owned by MGN) are going to re-sell the story to another publication?

2) The information contained in this article - even if entirely accurate and true - is of absolutely no probative interest regarding the criminal charges that Knox has faced. As I (and others) have pointed out repeatedly now, it wouldn't even make a difference if Knox was provably sleeping in her own excrement while in her prison cell, and had been shouting expletive-laden insults at everyone in the prison all the time. That. Is. Not. Evidence. Of. Murder. Or. Theft. Or. Sexual. Assault. Or. Any. Of. The. Other. Charges.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 01:20 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Well, I'd will wait a bit to declare it legitimate writing.

Regardless I expect the prosecution to use this story in their appeal.

Feinstein has written stories for the Daily Mail so she does have the contacts to sell a story such as this. Who else writes for the DM besides Nick Pisa? Why wouldn't this be a Nick Pisa story? Did the "warden" just call her up?

Just checked and I don't see this story picked up by anybody else, which doesn't make sense.

Strange how this story has attracted so many "reporters" that are female travel/restaurant stringer/bloggers that seem to have these "jobs" as hobbies.

Freelancers can sell their material to anyone they like, and likewise any newspaper can employ/engage/commission any freelancer. Of course, in practice, any given freelancer tends to cultivate relationships with certain publications, and there is often an implicit relationship between the freelancer and one or more publications (e.g. Nadeau with Newsweek, Vogt with SeattlePI and Pisa with the Mail and Sky). But the very nature of freelance status means that these links are not rigid and on-to-one mapped. For example, Pisa provided Knox-related copy to the Telegraph and the Express at various times over the past few years.

And yes, there are what you might call "professional freelancers", such as Pisa, whose entire careers are geared to news gathering and reporting. And then there are what you might call "dilettante freelancers", who have other means of financial support, and who dip their toes into journalism as and when it takes their fancy. In the media coverage of the Knox/Sollecito trial, it is not hard to distinguish between the two types of journalist....

Lastly, as to how Feinstein came by this story: she says on her blog that she was introduced to the warden by "a friend", and implies that the warden led her in turn to the former cellmate. So what probably happened was this: Feinstein happened to know someone who knew (or got to know) the warden; Feinstein then decided to fly out to interview the warden, as she saw a potential story in it (presumably Feinstein would have known the warden's general views on Knox before she even decided to go to Perugia); as a total freelancer, Feinstein would have had to fund her own trip as an up-front personal expense, which she would have had to hope would be recouped as part of the payment for any subsequent publication. It's possible that Feinstein might have secured some sort of provisional agreement in principle from The People to publish the piece in advance of going to Perugia, as a risk-minimising strategy.

But one thing is rather blindingly obvious: Feinstein's extremely low volume of output, and the "puff-piece" nature of most of her work, doesn't exactly speak highly of her journalistic chops. Fair play to her, of course, but I don't see any Pulitzers or British Press Awards winging her way any time soon.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 01:46 PM   #209
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By the way, has anyone wondered how the cellmate, "Vittoria", in Feinstein's article spent 14 years in Capanne women's prison, yet (according to the article) had a 9-year-old daughter at some point while she was Knox's cellmate. Even if the incident involving her daughter took place back in 2008, and even if "Vittoria" only finished her 14 year stint in Capanne in 2011, this would mean that her daughter was born in 1999, yet the latest that "Vittoria" could possibly have started her prison sentence is 1997. So under every possible timing scenario, "Vittoria" not only gave birth while in prison, but also conceived the child while in prison! Veracity, anyone.......?
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Old 3rd December 2011, 02:25 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Yes, I think there was confirmation bias at work; again, not on the part of the journalist, but of the subjects themselves.
How do you know? Never, never underestimate the power of the journalist in "framing" the story. I strongly suspect that the "story" on this person's website is exactly the story that she went to Perugia looking for.

Do you remember the Sky News incident from the appeal, where they mistranslated one of Amanda's spontaneous statements as "we all got drunk that night"? Well, Sky News is significantly more reputable than whoever this person is.

I will believe that the quotes (not even properly notated as quotes, by the way!) -- not to mention the general tone and editorial thrust of the story to the effect that "guard and cellmate have negative opinion of Amanda" -- are accurate when, and only when, I am given access to the complete, unedited audio recording of the conversations alleged to have taken place.

This individual should post the audio recording on the site if she wants her claims to be taken seriously.

And then, at that point, of course, assuming the recording supports the story, all the points made by Kaosium and others above fully apply.

Quote:
Many people interested will be careful readers, and intuit this to some degree.
Yet many others won't; they will include guilter-types who will jump with renewed zeal to claim that this supports their portrayal of Amanda.

Irresponsible is the word that suggests itself.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 03:15 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
smkovalinksy,

I agree that Ms. Knox's behavior would probably be different in prison than it would have otherwise been. I am aware of no evidence to suggest that Ms. Knox has Asperger's. Ms. Knox looked up to Laura and generally got along with her flatmates (apart from minor annoyances), from what I can gather. i believe that Laura and Filomena's impressions of Amanda changed because she became a murder suspect.
You are probably right. I think I have Aspberger syndrome and depression on the brain as people in my family have it. So I may tend to project it where it isn't really there.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 03:19 PM   #212
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A quick clarification on how freelance journalism works. Over on .org, Ganong asserts that

Quote:
Those journalists (Pisa, Nadeau, Vogt, Feinstein).... don't "have" to sell their work; they are paid to investigate and report because they are good at these things.

Well, Peggy, that's not really true now, is it? These freelance hacks are paid per article. And the newspapers that buy these hacks' stories are interested in 1) selling papers, 2) gaining readership (with associated advertising revenues). and 3) not getting sued. So the newspapers will generally only buy copy from freelance hacks if that copy is distinctive, provocative, and preferably volatile, sexually-suggestive and/or sensationalist. Newspapers have no interest in buying news/feature copy that is bland and neutral.

So, guess what happens? Hacks such as Pisa, Nadeau, Vogt and Feinstein are sentient enough to realise that they need to submit a certain style of copy if they want to get paid. To suggest that "they are paid to investigate and report because they are good at these things" is a pompous, pious misrepresentation of the commercial relationship between newspapers and freelance hacks. This state of affairs may well apply to tenured journalists who are essentially paid up-front for their expertise, and who therefore do not have to make sure that every article they write is a money-maker. These sorts of print journalists are often allowed to spend significant paid time purely on investigation and background, safe in the knowledge that the end product will stand as a piece of balanced, well-researched journalistic endeavour. Unfortunately, this is a luxury that a typical freelance hack simply cannot afford, both professionally and financially - even if they wanted to. Most freelance hacks are freelancers either because a) they aren't good enough to get staff positions on good publications, or b) they like the ducking-and-diving lifestyle of quick-and-dirty "rottweiler" journalism.

Oh, and by the way, just for the record: I do not work as a journalist of any sort (print, broadcast, online, other), and nor have I ever worked or sought to work as one. However, my line of work has brought me into plenty of contact with broadcast and print journalism in particular, and I'm pretty well-versed in the politics of newsrooms and editorial offices. Sorry to refute such spectacularly inept "sleuthing" though
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Old 3rd December 2011, 03:39 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
*sigh*

1) The article has been published already in a Sunday newspaper. Are you suggesting that either Feinstein or The People (owned by MGN) are going to re-sell the story to another publication?

2) The information contained in this article - even if entirely accurate and true - is of absolutely no probative interest regarding the criminal charges that Knox has faced. As I (and others) have pointed out repeatedly now, it wouldn't even make a difference if Knox was provably sleeping in her own excrement while in her prison cell, and had been shouting expletive-laden insults at everyone in the prison all the time. That. Is. Not. Evidence. Of. Murder. Or. Theft. Or. Sexual. Assault. Or. Any. Of. The. Other. Charges.
1. I think so. Or, an editor from a major paper would like to pick up the piece.
2. I know, I know, I know - and I have said as much over and over again. I have said that the acquittals are not contingent on any of these factors, good or ill. I am merely being respectful of a fellow writer (I write for my bread and butter too, oy vey) because I was the one who contacted her with questions, and she replied in a gracious and thoughtful manner. This is all too often NOT the case with authors, believe me.
2a. Ergo: That makes her due a certain respect, in my book. Does not mean I am saying, "Oh, Amanda did not use soap, look at the sociopath". Please. I have been open and frank with this author and others, regarding my support of Knox's innocence. I have said merely that all views may be told, and that opinion will counteract opinion, in the free exchange of ideas. This writer was not disrespectful to me, so I am returning that favor to her. Do not make this more than it is. I do not want anyone presuming about what I get paid to write, so I will not presume such regarding others.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 03:43 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by komponisto View Post
How do you know? Never, never underestimate the power of the journalist in "framing" the story. I strongly suspect that the "story" on this person's website is exactly the story that she went to Perugia looking for.

Do you remember the Sky News incident from the appeal, where they mistranslated one of Amanda's spontaneous statements as "we all got drunk that night"? Well, Sky News is significantly more reputable than whoever this person is.

I will believe that the quotes (not even properly notated as quotes, by the way!) -- not to mention the general tone and editorial thrust of the story to the effect that "guard and cellmate have negative opinion of Amanda" -- are accurate when, and only when, I am given access to the complete, unedited audio recording of the conversations alleged to have taken place.

This individual should post the audio recording on the site if she wants her claims to be taken seriously.

And then, at that point, of course, assuming the recording supports the story, all the points made by Kaosium and others above fully apply.



Yet many others won't; they will include guilter-types who will jump with renewed zeal to claim that this supports their portrayal of Amanda.

Irresponsible is the word that suggests itself.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 04:59 PM   #215
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
So basically people who have known Amandaly closely for decades think she's a great person, and people she didnt talk to think she's a murderess.

Do you think her lawyers might have instructed her not to speak to the police/jailers?
And wasnt it the Warden, or a jailer, who was trying to only speak of sex with her all the time in a perverted manner? The lying HIV prison doctor, the other's who were not so kind. She was probably smart in not speaking to them.

I find the "smell/bad hygeine" somment interesting too.

Last time this was mentioned was Nov 2, by a police, but the smell insinuated she was cleaning the cottage after a night of a satanic sex orgy....now it means something totally different, and unrelated to cleaning up a murder.

Arm Chair Psychologist's and everyone's a Profiler now it seems.... geeez
It's prison - think about it. From anything I've ever heard it's not good to get naked in prison - ever. I wouldn't take a shower until it was absolutely necessary either. And as far as the other behavior goes, I really don't see it as different than any other 20-ish aged girl.

They will all eat what you make but not actually make anything themselves. (In the rare instance they do cook something the entire mess is left all over the place for the maid to clean up.)

They are self-absorbed because the world still revolves around them.

And I don't doubt Amanda didn't like those women - they were pretty mean to her. Who's to say who got mean first. For all you guys out there: any time you have 3 women together you have trouble. Women are catty creatures and I'm sure prison is no picnic. Much of that article simply describes a "catty women" situation. I read most of it as the statements of women who didn't like the person with whom they were forced to spend large quantities of time in a very small space. I don't think it's all that damning.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 05:04 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
Hellmann's report has to be published within 90 days of the reading of the verdict. The verdict came on 3rd October ("03 OCT 2011"), and 90 days from that date is 1st January 2012 ("01 JAN 2012"). Since this obviously conflicts with the New Years Day holiday, and since I suspect that Italian judiciary operates at less than full speed between Christmas and New Year, I'd say that it's not unreasonable to speculate that the report might be published just before Christmas.
More likely, in my opinion, is that it will be published a day or two after the New Year, since the 90-day requirement almost certainly excludes holidays.

(As anyone who has followed this case knows, the Italian judiciary operates at less than full speed pretty much always.)
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Old 3rd December 2011, 05:33 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
As a small piece of background on Feinstein: she is a very unremarkable and unsuccessful UK-based journalist, who was once the mistress of UK newspaper baron David Montgomery, by whom she has a child and (I imagine) a decent income. I hope that she's not *ahem* embellishing this article or the circumstances surrounding its publication. She most definitely is not a significant player in the UK newspaper industry, and is in the same position as Nadeau, Vogt and Pisa of having to hawk individual stories for money.

But, as I said before, all of the stuff in this "world exclusive" - if some or all of it is actually true - is only of interest to those with a prurient interest in Knox's personal habits and interpersonal skills.
Pisa is by far the biggest player in the bunch. Nadeau has elevated herself from travel pieces and the occasional Berlusconi hit piece (that target's gone), while Vogt probably has the widest experience but little in the way of news stories lately. I'd say they are all much more "in demand" than Sharon.

I not so sure that information about her character is without value in forming an opinion about the murder. This information has nothing to do with the trial or guilt or innocence in court, but perhaps if true it shines a little different light on the case.

It is a shame that she didn't interview many others including other cellmates.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 07:33 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by LondonJohn View Post
By the way, has anyone wondered how the cellmate, "Vittoria", in Feinstein's article spent 14 years in Capanne women's prison, yet (according to the article) had a 9-year-old daughter at some point while she was Knox's cellmate. Even if the incident involving her daughter took place back in 2008, and even if "Vittoria" only finished her 14 year stint in Capanne in 2011, this would mean that her daughter was born in 1999, yet the latest that "Vittoria" could possibly have started her prison sentence is 1997. So under every possible timing scenario, "Vittoria" not only gave birth while in prison, but also conceived the child while in prison! Veracity, anyone.......?
In many countries there is an institution of so called Conjugal visit.

IIRC women in Capanne who had small children were granted a lot of privileges and were allowed to keep the child up to a certain age.

Of course conceiving a child while serving a 14 year sentence ( probably the actual sentence was much longer) is extremely irresponsible and selfish. The child's perspective is of upbringing in prison only to be taken away from mother after a few years. Somehow it resonates true with Vittoria's personality presented in the interview.
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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:43 PM   #219
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Does anyone know if Knox is still getting death threats? I wonder what group would do that?
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Old 3rd December 2011, 11:45 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
1. I think so. Or, an editor from a major paper would like to pick up the piece.
The People is a major paper - it has a circulation of almost a million, just a little less than the Sunday Times and more than the Sunday Express, The Observer, the Independent on Sunday or the Sunday Telegraph. It just doesn't have much of a website.
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Old 4th December 2011, 04:57 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
1. I think so. Or, an editor from a major paper would like to pick up the piece.
2. I know, I know, I know - and I have said as much over and over again. I have said that the acquittals are not contingent on any of these factors, good or ill. I am merely being respectful of a fellow writer (I write for my bread and butter too, oy vey) because I was the one who contacted her with questions, and she replied in a gracious and thoughtful manner. This is all too often NOT the case with authors, believe me.
2a. Ergo: That makes her due a certain respect, in my book. Does not mean I am saying, "Oh, Amanda did not use soap, look at the sociopath". Please. I have been open and frank with this author and others, regarding my support of Knox's innocence. I have said merely that all views may be told, and that opinion will counteract opinion, in the free exchange of ideas. This writer was not disrespectful to me, so I am returning that favor to her. Do not make this more than it is. I do not want anyone presuming about what I get paid to write, so I will not presume such regarding others.
There were two very well written and civil comments from Kaosium yesterday. Today they are curiously missing. Is she interested in counter opinions and does she want those opinions to be discussed on her blog?
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Old 4th December 2011, 05:02 AM   #222
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Feinstein's take

The Abridged Feinstein: "She always slept like a baby without taking sleeping pills, almost the only prisoner who did…It was like she was constantly doing a job interview and trying to show the best side of herself. She never smoked a single cigarette or broke prison rules…She also liked crocheting, and made me and her mother a crocheted necklace…In four years she never got a bad report, she obeyed all the rules, like not turning up the TV, or hanging washing out the window...If all the prisoners behaved like Amanda, prison would function much better."

I agree that Feinstein's report does not shed much light on Ms. Knox's innocence/guilt. However, the phenomenon of this case is much broader than that question. The people who eat up Feinstein's words uncritically while ignoring the many positive reports of Ms. Knox's character are part of an almost equally interesting story. MOO.
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Old 4th December 2011, 06:16 AM   #223
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How Amanda acted in prison is a red herring, anyway. It rests upon the supressed premise that an innocent person would act one way in jail and a guilty person another. There's absolutely no evidence in all of the history of incarceration to support that.

Unless Knox sex-murdered her roommate in jail and/or admitted to another crime, her behavior is irrelevant.
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Old 4th December 2011, 06:56 AM   #224
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
There were two very well written and civil comments from Kaosium yesterday. Today they are curiously missing. Is she interested in counter opinions and does she want those opinions to be discussed on her blog?
Well, it is always the blogger's prerogative to moderate comments on their own blog. I once wrote an article on an alternative cancer doctor, and did not really care to respond to comments I got extolling the virtues of mainstream cancer treatments: I knew these could be advocated elsewhere. As a reporter, I was neutral in any case.

I think someone who is in a position to travel to Perugia, and who has an up to date International Press Pass, might go over and conduct their own interviews, and publish them, as Feinstein herself has suggested in her response. In fact, I am sure that this has probably already occurred to someone. With a free press, one perspective can always be balanced by another. It is not really so shocking that some cellmates and officials found Amanda to be very agreeable, and others, not so much. What is worrisome is that media in general would drive the process of Justice: Lady Justice is supposed to have a blindfold on, not be reading the press and watching TV.

In the end, though , I do not think any of this will have much bearing on the motivation and ensuing supreme court ruling. How long after Hellmann's motivation does the prosecution have to file its appeal? And then, how long the process to the end?
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Old 4th December 2011, 07:09 AM   #225
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
I agree that Feinstein's report does not shed much light on Ms. Knox's innocence/guilt. However, the phenomenon of this case is much broader than that question. The people who eat up Feinstein's words uncritically while ignoring the many positive reports of Ms. Knox's character are part of an almost equally interesting story. MOO.
Once again I must protest your MOO as I agree with you so it's my MOO too or OOO - Our Opinions Only .

Feinstein is clearly no great journalist and her background and stated lifestyle give us an insight into who she is. It doesn't mean her report isn't accurate to the extent she pursued the story. As I have said earlier, I wished she had interviewed more people to balance the story a bit. I wish she had told us what Vittoria had done for a 14 year sentence, or did I miss that?

What strikes me the most about the story is that we have yet another B or C or D level reporter on a case that rates in the top of news stories for the last few years. Someone else probably can quantify that but I'm guessing at least in the top 100. Why does the story get people like Feinstein, Nadeau, Vogt and Dempsey instead of more experienced professional people?
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Old 4th December 2011, 08:50 AM   #226
smkovalinksy
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Originally Posted by Matthew Best View Post
The People is a major paper - it has a circulation of almost a million, just a little less than the Sunday Times and more than the Sunday Express, The Observer, the Independent on Sunday or the Sunday Telegraph. It just doesn't have much of a website.
Oh, OK. I think the New York Times was going to be running something on it, in any case. It is still pending, so will have to wait and see.
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Old 4th December 2011, 09:23 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Once again I must protest your MOO as I agree with you so it's my MOO too or OOO - Our Opinions Only .

Feinstein is clearly no great journalist and her background and stated lifestyle give us an insight into who she is. It doesn't mean her report isn't accurate to the extent she pursued the story. As I have said earlier, I wished she had interviewed more people to balance the story a bit. I wish she had told us what Vittoria had done for a 14 year sentence, or did I miss that?

What strikes me the most about the story is that we have yet another B or C or D level reporter on a case that rates in the top of news stories for the last few years. Someone else probably can quantify that but I'm guessing at least in the top 100. Why does the story get people like Feinstein, Nadeau, Vogt and Dempsey instead of more experienced professional people?

I suspect the most likely answer to this question is twofold:

1) Italy is geographically and culturally outside the remit of the two main anglo media countries: USA and UK. As such, none of the anglo broadcast media retain bureaux in Italy, and very few of the print titles have dedicated in-post Italy correspondents/reporters. As far as geography is concerned, it's also probably an important factor that the events and the trial took place in Perugia, which is some 2-3 hours' drive from Rome.

2) The Italian trial process is so time-consuming that no anglo media outlet would consider dedicating significant resource to its coverage for such a long period. It's inconceivable that any major UK or US TV network or newspaper/publication would attach a first-rate reporter to the case, since the combination of the time sink and the geography would mean that such an assignment would be a terribly inefficient use of such a reporter's time and expertise.

It's interesting that all the UK and US media were out in force in Perugia for the Hellmann verdict. The US networks bothered to fly out various big-hitters because they knew that the verdict would be a major public interest news event. And because of that, they reasoned that it was worth sending various high-profile anchors and reporters a third of the way around the world to commentate and opine on the couple of days before and after the verdict. Unfortunately, the near-inevitable by-product of this was that many of the high-profile media personalities were woefully under-informed as a result of having come to the case at the 11th hour and 59th minute.
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Old 4th December 2011, 09:31 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by Grinder View Post
Once again I must protest your MOO as I agree with you so it's my MOO too or OOO - Our Opinions Only .

Feinstein is clearly no great journalist and her background and stated lifestyle give us an insight into who she is. It doesn't mean her report isn't accurate to the extent she pursued the story. As I have said earlier, I wished she had interviewed more people to balance the story a bit. I wish she had told us what Vittoria had done for a 14 year sentence, or did I miss that?

What strikes me the most about the story is that we have yet another B or C or D level reporter on a case that rates in the top of news stories for the last few years. Someone else probably can quantify that but I'm guessing at least in the top 100. Why does the story get people like Feinstein, Nadeau, Vogt and Dempsey instead of more experienced professional people?
My answer to your question is that, despite the high level of interest in all things Knox on this thread, on PMF, IIP, etc., the minute details of this case are not that interesting to the average person. That, combined with the reduction in budgets at major news organizations over the past decade or so has resulted in an opportunity where these freelance stringers can sell stories on the case.

The case in general, and the verdicts particularly, had short term high interest in the US, UK, etc., so the major news outlets sent crews, TV cameras, etc. for the appeal verdict, for example, especially because there was a possibility of a reversal, which adds to the interest. But once the verdict is over, stories about Knox being nice to other inmates or how many days she had between showers are not at the top of most people's reading list.

Speaking for myself, I knew about the case for two years before I really read about it in any depth, and learning the details of what really occured took a lot of reading and research, given the conflicting information sources. The average person doesn't normally believe that the authorities in a country like Italy would arrest and convict an innocent young woman based on such bizarre suppositions and such flimsy evidence. I suspect if you ask someone on the street in the US, they've heard about it the case, they were interested for a day watching a sobbing Amanda get acquitted, and now they have gone back to their lives. There are no front page stories about the case, because it is not on the top of the radar of most people. We here on this thread are very interested, because we know more about the case than most, but the average person is not that knowlegeable or interested.

Although people say that the US media is respecting the request by Amanda's family and not reporting on her, if they thought there was enough interest to generate revenue, that would all go away, and she would be all over the place. They have moved on to stories that will attract readers and viewers, and make them money. That leaves the story to freelancers selling to tabloids, whose readers like to read gossip about irrelevent stuff like if Knox is going to buy toothpaste, or if the other inmates liked her in prison or not.
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Old 4th December 2011, 09:50 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
... How long after Hellmann's motivation does the prosecution have to file its appeal? And then, how long the process to the end?
From what's been said earlier on, I understand both sides have 45 days after publication of the report to submit their grounds for appeal.
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:05 AM   #230
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Finally have the timeline straight (from TJMK):

Quote:
  • Hellman sentencing report due Perugia January 1 2012
  • Cassation appeals due to be filed Rome February 15 2012
  • Cassation appeal outcome Rome probably late 2012
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:14 AM   #231
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
Well, it is always the blogger's prerogative to moderate comments on their own blog. I once wrote an article on an alternative cancer doctor, and did not really care to respond to comments I got extolling the virtues of mainstream cancer treatments: I knew these could be advocated elsewhere. As a reporter, I was neutral in any case.

I think someone who is in a position to travel to Perugia, and who has an up to date International Press Pass, might go over and conduct their own interviews, and publish them, as Feinstein herself has suggested in her response. In fact, I am sure that this has probably already occurred to someone. With a free press, one perspective can always be balanced by another. It is not really so shocking that some cellmates and officials found Amanda to be very agreeable, and others, not so much. What is worrisome is that media in general would drive the process of Justice: Lady Justice is supposed to have a blindfold on, not be reading the press and watching TV.

In the end, though , I do not think any of this will have much bearing on the motivation and ensuing supreme court ruling. How long after Hellmann's motivation does the prosecution have to file its appeal? And then, how long the process to the end?
having ability to go to Perugia and the press pass, makes me wonder why there isnt more interviews being done.

what about all the jurors/layjudges, why arent they interviewed?
I'd like to read their opinions.

the roommates, the tow truck driver, the locals and Rudys crowd, why havent they been searched out and questioned?
All of it would be interesting.

We havent even been able to read the testimony's of many people, just tiny snippets of the day.

Is it there isn't a interest enough for more media attention?

But this can't be the case looking at the abundance if empty articles in the news everyday.

I'll guess the people closely associated to the case have chosen not to speak. Anyone agree?
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:31 AM   #232
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Originally Posted by komponisto View Post
How do you know? Never, never underestimate the power of the journalist in "framing" the story. I strongly suspect that the "story" on this person's website is exactly the story that she went to Perugia looking for.
Bingo.

Ms. Feinstein's recent replies to comments on her blog have unmasked her as a garden variety guilter. There is no question that she went to Perugia and Capanne with the assumption of Knox's guilt.

Like the puny cadre of guilt supporters still making their jabs in this thread, she has a vise-like grip on her talking points. In her complete disinterest in merely incidental characters like Rudy Guede and Raffaele Sollecito, she is also identical to the die hards.

Events on the ground render Feinstein's efforts as boring and as ineffectual as the remaining stalwarts on PMF and TJMK, among whose number she presumably counts herself behind the guise of some florid nom de guerre.
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:32 AM   #233
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Originally Posted by Didaktylos View Post
From what's been said earlier on, I understand both sides have 45 days after publication of the report to submit their grounds for appeal.
Ah, yeah, thanks---looked it up on TJMK and you are correct.
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:37 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
having ability to go to Perugia and the press pass, makes me wonder why there isnt more interviews being done.

what about all the jurors/layjudges, why arent they interviewed?
I'd like to read their opinions.

the roommates, the tow truck driver, the locals and Rudys crowd, why havent they been searched out and questioned?
All of it would be interesting.

We havent even been able to read the testimony's of many people, just tiny snippets of the day.

Is it there isn't a interest enough for more media attention?

But this can't be the case looking at the abundance if empty articles in the news everyday.

I'll guess the people closely associated to the case have chosen not to speak. Anyone agree?
There were in fact a very few articles with the lay judges (a couple of them) giving their opinions. As for the rest: In the U.S., this case was painted in broad strokes: Had I not been reading forums, I would have known very little detail concerning the case. Perhaps in Italy they have done those interviews, but here, no one even knows that there WERE any flatmates, or tow truck driver, or a Rudy,or even a Raffaele - unless they read here, or on PMF or TJMK. I have spoken to family members who knew only that "Amanda Knox was that American girl who killed a girl in a dorm fight at a college in Italy".
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Old 4th December 2011, 10:56 AM   #235
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As this strange little furore over the Feinstein article continues, I thought I'd make some Q&A observations about it:

1. Did Feinstein accurately report the words and intent of the two interview subjects?
I don't think there's any reason to believe that Feinstein didn't do a decent, professional job of accurately reporting what was told to her. I don't see any "lost in translation" problems, and I assume that she has full audio recordings of the interviews (as all professional reporters these days do as a matter of course).

2. Did the interview subjects accurately relate their experiences of Knox to Feinstein?
This is harder to answer. I don't doubt that Knox might have had some personal habits that others found annoying or even offensive. But I wonder whether the two interview subjects (the warden and the cellmate) might have engaged in post-hoc rationalisation in their recollections: remembering and even amplifying the "bad" parts, and minimising or even forgetting the "good" parts.

3. How come the interview subjects were even speaking to a reporter?
I'm more than a little intrigued by this question. I can see how a former cellmate might be at liberty to talk about her experience of Knox in Capanne prison, but I have significant suspicions about the role of the warden, Angela Antonelli. I find it hard to believe that she would ordinarily be allowed to discuss inmates under her command, regardless of whether or not she has now retired. And she does so seemingly without the cloak of anonymity or off-the record protection. Certainly in the UK or the US, prison wardens would be expressly forbidden from discussing inmates with the media. Occasionally some break ranks to do so - but it's almost always anonymously and for payment, and there is usually a subsequent inquiry by the prison service to try to uncover the culprit. Here, though, we have a named warden talking about Knox in depth, and including some details that are definitely in the anti-privacy arena. Did this warden, Angela Antonelli, therefore get some sort of implicit or explicit dispensation to talk to a journalist? Could this be in any way linked to a possible sexual harassment suit brought by Knox against Capanne prison?

4. How did the warden and the cellmate get in contact with Feinstein?

Another slightly curious question. Feinstein herself says that an anonymous contact "introduced" her to the warden, Angela Antonelli, and that Antonelli provided the link to the cellmate ("Vittoria"). But what was the relationship between Antonelli, the middleman contact, and Feinstein? And how/why was Antonelli in contact with the cellmate? Why would a now-freed cellmate be in contact with one of her former wardens, or vice versa?

5. Are these interviews a breach of Knox's privacy?
I'd argue that very possibly they are. This is particularly the case when it comes to the relationship between a prison warden and a prisoner in his/her custody. While the privacy of this relationship is clearly not legally enshrined in the same way as attorney-client privilege, or the relationship between someone and a religious cleric, I would imagine that a court might decide that a prisoner has a reasonable right to assume that prison wardens should not divulge details of them to third parties - especially journalists. Perhaps Feinstein should offer to appear before the Leveson inquiry to justify her intrusion into Knox's life.....

6.Does the Feinstein article shed any light on Knox's involvement in the murder of Meredith Kercher?
Obviously not. Regardless of whether some or all of the details in the article are true, they have absolutely no relevance to whether or not Knox was a participant in the murder. Knox's alleged personality issues and personal hygiene problems are of no evidential value in regard to the criminal charges that she (and Sollecito) faced. They are therefore nothing more than "human interest" tittle-tattle, designed to appeal to readers with a prurient interest in Knox's personal life. They are of no value whatsoever to anyone debating the murder and the associated criminal cases.

7. Did Feinstein have a vested interest in a particular angle to her story?
Yes. While I've said before that Feinstein might indeed hold the personal view that Knox is entirely innocent (although it appears from her blog that she's leaning towards guilt), it stands to reason that Feinstein would have been seeking an "anti-Knox" angle for this story. Clearly, had the interview subjects related a reasonably sober and uncontroversial account of Knox as as normal, quiet, law-abiding prisoner, there would have been no story for Feinstein to write. And therefore no story for her to sell. And therefore no money. She therefore had a vested interest in writing a provocative, eye-catching story, and the only way to make this story provocative or eye-catching is to paint Knox in a bad light. Note that I'm not suggesting that Feinstein in any way willfully pushed or distorted the story in that direction: it's merely fortunate for her story (and her bank balance) that the two interview subjects were full of such juicy, quotable character assassinations of Knox.
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Old 4th December 2011, 11:41 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by RoseMontague View Post
There were two very well written and civil comments from Kaosium yesterday. Today they are curiously missing. Is she interested in counter opinions and does she want those opinions to be discussed on her blog?
There seem to be there under the original post.
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Old 4th December 2011, 12:46 PM   #237
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Quote:
Although people say that the US media is respecting the request by Amanda's family and not reporting on her, if they thought there was enough interest to generate revenue, that would all go away, and she would be all over the place. They have moved on to stories that will attract readers and viewers, and make them money. That leaves the story to freelancers selling to tabloids, whose readers like to read gossip about irrelevent stuff like if Knox is going to buy toothpaste, or if the other inmates liked her in prison or not.
I'm not suggesting that TV networks should have had a crew there 24/7 for the last 4 years. I am saying that this was a big story (the week of the appeal verdict #5 in Google searches) and I'm surprised that better coverage in the sense of higher quality writers weren't on the case at times.

I'm not surprised that the top newspapers didn't have full time people on the case but I'm surprised that at a minimum better free lancers weren't involved. Vogt and Nadeau have upped their careers immensely because they had little competition.

Perhaps a decent journalist is working on the book right now.
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Old 4th December 2011, 01:03 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by smkovalinksy View Post
FYI:

The author (Sharon Feinstein) has posted her response to the many comments @ this blog:

http://www.sharonfeinstein.co.uk/blog/
Quote:
My interviews were recorded and the interviewees were NOT paid.
Yeh, the interviewees were just SO altruistic, they wouldn't accept a penny.

Do you really expect anyone to believe that. Sharon?
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Old 4th December 2011, 03:01 PM   #239
Dougm
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Originally Posted by JREF2010 View Post
having ability to go to Perugia and the press pass, makes me wonder why there isnt more interviews being done.

what about all the jurors/layjudges, why arent they interviewed?
I'd like to read their opinions.

the roommates, the tow truck driver, the locals and Rudys crowd, why havent they been searched out and questioned?
All of it would be interesting.

We havent even been able to read the testimony's of many people, just tiny snippets of the day.

Is it there isn't a interest enough for more media attention?

But this can't be the case looking at the abundance if empty articles in the news everyday.

I'll guess the people closely associated to the case have chosen not to speak. Anyone agree?
There is interest, just not large scale interest. I agree with what LJ said about it not being a good use of funds for mainstream UK and US media. Even the recent Daily Mail stories have been mostly met with comments saying "stop reporting on this" (Amanda's activities especially). I also think that anyone close to the case that was willing to talk has done so over the past 4 years.
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Old 4th December 2011, 03:48 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Dougm View Post
There is interest, just not large scale interest. I agree with what LJ said about it not being a good use of funds for mainstream UK and US media. Even the recent Daily Mail stories have been mostly met with comments saying "stop reporting on this" (Amanda's activities especially). I also think that anyone close to the case that was willing to talk has done so over the past 4 years.
The comments may indicate that but the hits are what the paper looks at and by the fact that they are still buying the pics I'd say they are high.

Without a doubt the interest for the tabs has been pretty strong as they given plenty of "ink" to the story.

I have to disagree with both you and LJ because it really wouldn't be very expensive to have higher quality stringers or have the Rome guy head over to Perugia for a few days for some in depth research.

I'm not just talking about now, I'm talking about the whole trial. It appears we can just count on poor coverage as quality journalists are all becoming spokespeople for corporations and politicians.

Don't forget that Nadeau covered some significant stories for Newsweek, which shows the poor state of journalism.
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