Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN?

The idea · 1st May 2004, 07:12 PM

Two words: Mahar Arar.

Kopji · 1st May 2004, 07:39 PM

While I have no reason to doubt he is telling the truth I doubt there will be much evidence forthcoming. Only the stupidest, most incompetently run organization would allow photographs to be taken of them torturing prisoners. (Gee, that would be us).

zenith-nadir · 2nd May 2004, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The idea
Two words: Mahar Arar.

Mahar Arar is not as innocent as he claims. Mark my words.

If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because Damascus is home to the head offices of every radical terror group in the middle east. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it sponsors terrorism and we know it. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because there is no freedom of expression or freedom of the press. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because for 30 years it has occupied Lebanon contrary to UN resolutions.

So what did the U.N. do about all that feel-good Syrian stuff? It elected Syria to sit on the UN Security Council for a two-year term on Monday, October 08, 2001. Then to add insult to injury the UN gave Syria the presidency of the Security Council on 02 June 2002.

Your UN at work...

The idea · 2nd May 2004, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982. [...]

So what did the U.N. do about all that feel-good Syrian stuff? It elected Syria to sit on the UN Security Council for a two-year term on Monday, October 08, 2001. Then to add insult to injury the UN gave Syria the presidency of the Security Council on 02 June 2002.

Maybe the UN decided that it had enough administrative oversight and that it needed some more administrative undersight?

Maybe it's part of a plan to wind up the UN and replace it with a travelling circus?

varwoche · 2nd May 2004, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir

If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because Damascus is home to the head offices of every radical terror group in the middle east. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it sponsors terrorism and we know it. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because there is no freedom of expression or freedom of the press. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because for 30 years it has occupied Lebanon contrary to UN resolutions.

Far be it for me to defend Syria. But if your criteria were to be applied across the board, there would be a lot of kicking out to do. Your last criterion is especially curious.

Bjorn · 2nd May 2004, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by varwoche
Your last criterion is especially curious.

Indeed it is.

On the other hand, is there anything in the UN charters preventing a dictatorship from being member?

Richard G · 2nd May 2004, 09:02 PM

I think we should make the U.N. move to Syria.

The idea · 3rd May 2004, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard G
I think we should make the U.N. move to Syria.

Heck! No! They would refuse to go!

Segnosaur · 3rd May 2004, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bjorn
Indeed it is.

On the other hand, is there anything in the UN charters preventing a dictatorship from being member?

Nothing specifically that I've seen.

There are general statements that human rights are to be respected (for example, in Article 1, it mentions: principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples and promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms as part of its purpose statement. But, nothing about how nations are required to respect those principles.

According to Article 6: A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council.

So, membership can be cancelled only by actions by the security council and general assembly. And the united nations is extremely unlikely to take any actions against any of its members. (Just look at all the resolutions that were passed against Iraq which were never enforced.)

Richard G · 3rd May 2004, 02:46 PM

Quote:

On the other hand, is there anything in the UN charters preventing a dictatorship from being member?

If there were, half of the world would be excluded.

zenith-nadir · 3rd May 2004, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by varwoche
Your last criterion is especially curious.

I find it the height of hypocrisy that Syria, a member of the UN Security Council, is in contravention of UN Resolution 520 since 1982, even more ironic is that Syria was given the presidency of the UN Security Council. So if members of the security council do not have to follow UN resolutions, why should anyone else?

DanishDynamite · 3rd May 2004, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
I find it the height of hypocrisy that Syria, a member of the UN Security Council, is in contravention of UN Resolution 520 since 1982, even more ironic is that Syria was given the presidency of the UN Security Council. So if members of the security council do not have to follow UN resolutions, why should anyone else?

Here is resolution 520

Which bit are they in contravention of?

[Edited: The link doesn't seem to work. Try this one and go to "1982". ]

demon · 3rd May 2004, 06:13 PM

Posted by john dee on May 4, 2004, 1:45 am

Last Update: 03/05/2004 09:41
Report: Syria nabs Mossad men planning to kill Hamas leader
By Haaretz Service
Syria recently thwarted a second attempt by the Israeli Mossad espionage agency to killed Hamas leader Khaled Meshal, the Tehran Times reported Monday.
Quoting "reliable sources," the paper claims that five Yemenite Jews, disguised as Muslims, participated in a ceremony in Damascus to commemorate assassinated Hamas leader Abed al-Aziz Rantisi.

The paper claims that the five entered the Yarmook camp in Damascus to meet Meshal and Mousa Abu Marzook, a high-ranking member of the Hamas political office.

The five were dispatched by the Mossad, the paper claims, to assassinate the two top Hamas officials, but were nabbed by Meshal's bodyguards.

The five men are currently being held by the Syrian security forces, according to the report, but have still not been identified. They said during questioning that entered Syria through Jordan and were sent by the Mossad to kill the Hamas officials.

An attempt to assassinate Meshal was foiled in 1997 when two Mossad agents were caught in Jordan with forged Canadian passports. They were released a few days later and sent back to Israel.
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/423003.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ouch...I don`t want to see those photograghs...might show the mossad guys getting humiliated and abused, it`s ok though, no one gets tortured anymore...it`s all a joke and a laugh.

zenith-nadir · 3rd May 2004, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DanishDynamite
Which bit are they in contravention of?

"Taking note of Lebanon's determination to ensure the withdrawal of all non-Lebanese forces from Lebanon" and "Calls again for the strict respect for Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence under the sole and exclusive authority of the Lebanese Government through the Lebanese Army throughout Lebanon"....those parts.

am7a · 3rd May 2004, 08:35 PM

originally posted by zenith nadir:
If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982

even the muslim brothers gourp in syria got passed this Hama massacre, and both sides started dealing deplomatically with eachother leaving that past behind them. so this should concern nobody anymore.

Syria should be kicked out of the UN because Damascus is home to the head offices of every radical terror group in the middle east
Hamas and Jihad groups are only active politically in syria, and if you have any evidence to proof otherwise go ahead.
these groups are unlike Al-Qaida considered legal political palestinian parties who have the right to defend their people and their objective is to free their occupied land, now these objectives fall in with the international laws not the israeli zionist law.

Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it sponsors terrorism and we know it.

again i know you want to beleive this but were is your eveidence, and don't tell me Bush said so because he couldn't come up with the evidence himself.

Syria should be kicked out of the UN because there is no freedom of expression or freedom of the press.

it seems that your information needs to be updated in this issue, democracy still does not exist but syrian opposition started growing even inside syria, and they are working publically under the eyes of government, not secretly. but their aim is not to collaps the current ruling system or bring the democracy angle(the US) to help out like some iraqis did, rather they want to transform this system in a peacful deplomatic way with hard work ang good attitudes. its their country, their problem and this is the only way to work it out.

Syria should be kicked out of the UN because for 30 years it has occupied Lebanon contrary to UN resolutions.

the majority of lebanese disagree with that. even if syria controled lebanon politically for a while but i don't think this applies anymore. lebanese are governing themselves without any pressure from syria. the strongest tie between syria and lebanon is security and syrian military groups in lebenon are not only important for lebanon security after the civil war but also this is very crusial to syrian security as well, so israel should think twice before trying to have another chance in lebanon.

1st May 2004, 07:12 PM	#1
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Two words: Mahar Arar.
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

2nd May 2004, 04:27 AM	#3
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by The idea Two words: Mahar Arar. Mahar Arar is not as innocent as he claims. Mark my words. If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because Damascus is home to the head offices of every radical terror group in the middle east. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it sponsors terrorism and we know it. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because there is no freedom of expression or freedom of the press. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because for 30 years it has occupied Lebanon contrary to UN resolutions. So what did the U.N. do about all that feel-good Syrian stuff? It elected Syria to sit on the UN Security Council for a two-year term on Monday, October 08, 2001. Then to add insult to injury the UN gave Syria the presidency of the Security Council on 02 June 2002. Your UN at work...
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

2nd May 2004, 11:38 AM	#4
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982. [...] So what did the U.N. do about all that feel-good Syrian stuff? It elected Syria to sit on the UN Security Council for a two-year term on Monday, October 08, 2001. Then to add insult to injury the UN gave Syria the presidency of the Security Council on 02 June 2002. Maybe the UN decided that it had enough administrative oversight and that it needed some more administrative undersight? Maybe it's part of a plan to wind up the UN and replace it with a travelling circus?
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

2nd May 2004, 11:49 AM	#5
varwoche Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Puget Sound Posts: 7,230	Re: Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because Damascus is home to the head offices of every radical terror group in the middle east. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it sponsors terrorism and we know it. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because there is no freedom of expression or freedom of the press. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because for 30 years it has occupied Lebanon contrary to UN resolutions. Far be it for me to defend Syria. But if your criteria were to be applied across the board, there would be a lot of kicking out to do. Your last criterion is especially curious.
	__________________ To survive election season on a skeptics forum, one must understand Hymie-the-Robot (and/or Fat Jack)

2nd May 2004, 12:31 PM	#6
Bjorn Off Topic Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Diego, CA Posts: 2,974	Re: Re: Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by varwoche Your last criterion is especially curious. Indeed it is. On the other hand, is there anything in the UN charters preventing a dictatorship from being member?
	__________________ Little did I know, that all those days that came and went, were my life ....

1st May 2004, 07:39 PM	#2
Kopji Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Mogollon Rim Posts: 7,697	While I have no reason to doubt he is telling the truth I doubt there will be much evidence forthcoming. Only the stupidest, most incompetently run organization would allow photographs to be taken of them torturing prisoners. (Gee, that would be us).

2nd May 2004, 09:02 PM	#7
Richard G Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 940	I think we should make the U.N. move to Syria.
Richard G Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 940

3rd May 2004, 02:16 PM	#8
The idea Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,547	Quote: Originally posted by Richard G I think we should make the U.N. move to Syria. Heck! No! They would refuse to go!
	__________________ I resolve to neither provoke nor appease evil.

3rd May 2004, 02:33 PM	#9
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,066	Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by Bjorn Indeed it is. On the other hand, is there anything in the UN charters preventing a dictatorship from being member? Nothing specifically that I've seen. There are general statements that human rights are to be respected (for example, in Article 1, it mentions: principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples and promoting and encouraging respect for human rights and for fundamental freedoms as part of its purpose statement. But, nothing about how nations are required to respect those principles. According to Article 6: A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council. So, membership can be cancelled only by actions by the security council and general assembly. And the united nations is extremely unlikely to take any actions against any of its members. (Just look at all the resolutions that were passed against Iraq which were never enforced.)
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

3rd May 2004, 02:46 PM	#10
Richard G Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 940	Quote: On the other hand, is there anything in the UN charters preventing a dictatorship from being member? If there were, half of the world would be excluded.
Richard G Muse Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 940

3rd May 2004, 02:51 PM	#11
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Re: Re: Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by varwoche Your last criterion is especially curious. I find it the height of hypocrisy that Syria, a member of the UN Security Council, is in contravention of UN Resolution 520 since 1982, even more ironic is that Syria was given the presidency of the UN Security Council. So if members of the security council do not have to follow UN resolutions, why should anyone else?
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

3rd May 2004, 03:00 PM	#12
DanishDynamite Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: In the cold Posts: 10,802	Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by zenith-nadir I find it the height of hypocrisy that Syria, a member of the UN Security Council, is in contravention of UN Resolution 520 since 1982, even more ironic is that Syria was given the presidency of the UN Security Council. So if members of the security council do not have to follow UN resolutions, why should anyone else? Here is resolution 520 Which bit are they in contravention of? [Edited: The link doesn't seem to work. Try this one and go to "1982". ]

3rd May 2004, 06:13 PM	#13
demon Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,744	Posted by john dee on May 4, 2004, 1:45 am Last Update: 03/05/2004 09:41 Report: Syria nabs Mossad men planning to kill Hamas leader By Haaretz Service Syria recently thwarted a second attempt by the Israeli Mossad espionage agency to killed Hamas leader Khaled Meshal, the Tehran Times reported Monday. Quoting "reliable sources," the paper claims that five Yemenite Jews, disguised as Muslims, participated in a ceremony in Damascus to commemorate assassinated Hamas leader Abed al-Aziz Rantisi. The paper claims that the five entered the Yarmook camp in Damascus to meet Meshal and Mousa Abu Marzook, a high-ranking member of the Hamas political office. The five were dispatched by the Mossad, the paper claims, to assassinate the two top Hamas officials, but were nabbed by Meshal's bodyguards. The five men are currently being held by the Syrian security forces, according to the report, but have still not been identified. They said during questioning that entered Syria through Jordan and were sent by the Mossad to kill the Hamas officials. An attempt to assassinate Meshal was foiled in 1997 when two Mossad agents were caught in Jordan with forged Canadian passports. They were released a few days later and sent back to Israel. http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/423003.html --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ouch...I don`t want to see those photograghs...might show the mossad guys getting humiliated and abused, it`s ok though, no one gets tortured anymore...it`s all a joke and a laugh.
demon Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 2,744

3rd May 2004, 07:23 PM	#14
zenith-nadir Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 4,500	Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why Kick Syrian Government Out of UN? Quote: Originally posted by DanishDynamite Which bit are they in contravention of? "Taking note of Lebanon's determination to ensure the withdrawal of all non-Lebanese forces* from Lebanon" and "Calls again for the strict respect for Lebanon's sovereignty, territorial integrity, unity and political independence under the sole and exclusive authority of the Lebanese Government through the Lebanese Army* throughout Lebanon"....those parts.
	__________________ The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled. -- Plutarch

3rd May 2004, 08:35 PM	#15
am7a Scholar Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 62	originally posted by zenith nadir: If anything Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it is a brutal dictatorship. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because of the Hama massacre where Assad slaughtered 10,000+ Syrians in one week in 1982 even the muslim brothers gourp in syria got passed this Hama massacre, and both sides started dealing deplomatically with eachother leaving that past behind them. so this should concern nobody anymore. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because Damascus is home to the head offices of every radical terror group in the middle east Hamas and Jihad groups are only active politically in syria, and if you have any evidence to proof otherwise go ahead. these groups are unlike Al-Qaida considered legal political palestinian parties who have the right to defend their people and their objective is to free their occupied land, now these objectives fall in with the international laws not the israeli zionist law. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because it sponsors terrorism and we know it. again i know you want to beleive this but were is your eveidence, and don't tell me Bush said so because he couldn't come up with the evidence himself. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because there is no freedom of expression or freedom of the press. it seems that your information needs to be updated in this issue, democracy still does not exist but syrian opposition started growing even inside syria, and they are working publically under the eyes of government, not secretly. but their aim is not to collaps the current ruling system or bring the democracy angle(the US) to help out like some iraqis did, rather they want to transform this system in a peacful deplomatic way with hard work ang good attitudes. its their country, their problem and this is the only way to work it out. Syria should be kicked out of the UN because for 30 years it has occupied Lebanon contrary to UN resolutions. the majority of lebanese disagree with that. even if syria controled lebanon politically for a while but i don't think this applies anymore. lebanese are governing themselves without any pressure from syria. the strongest tie between syria and lebanon is security and syrian military groups in lebenon are not only important for lebanon security after the civil war but also this is very crusial to syrian security as well, so israel should think twice before trying to have another chance in lebanon.
am7a Scholar Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 62