British terror raids turn into farce

[iain]

A couple of weeks ago, Manchester police raided houses across the city and took ten "terrorist suspects" into custody. Stories came into the press that Manchester United's stadium was a terrorist target. Cue brave Man U. fans saying how they would carry on going to matches and defy the terrorists.

This is all very handy for nice Mr Blunkett and his ID cards - look at the threat everyone; we need to give up all our civil liberties now so the Government can protect us from the nasty terrorists.

Well, the truth has turned out to be somewhat different. All ten "suspects" have been released. Not one is considered to be a serious suspect by police - several were just people who knew other terrorist suspects and that was enough for them to be taken away.

And the Man United threat? One of these innocent men, wrongly identified as terrorists, was a Man Utd. fan and had a ticket to an old match in his house. That's it. At the time the papers went to press with the Man Utd. threat story, the Uk government knew there was no substance to it, but chose not to try to correct the media.

This is starting to look very dodgy to me. Yes, there is a real terrorist threat. But how much is the UK government happy to see it blown out of all proportion to justify every controlling measure they want to push through?

[shemp]

I'm going to take a wild guess that none of the media will offer an apology and a retraction of their earlier stories.

[Exposer]

Taking your word that things are exactly as you say (without any links at all), it would seem that some guys were arrested, questioned, and released.

The media should retract or correct any mistakes.

Having said that, if I were a Brit, I frankly would not be complaining right now that too many terror-related suspects were being questioned.

I have this bad, sinking feeling in my gut that Al Qaeda is determined to strike England, probably London, very soon.

I hope not.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Quote:

originally posted by Exposer
Having said that, if I were a Brit, I frankly would not be complaining right now that too many terror-related suspects were being questioned.

Brits complain when the powers that be abuse the rights of others under what they consider to be trumped up charges. They don't appreciate abandonment of the law or human rights.

[Jocko]

Quote:

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong


Brits complain when the powers that be abuse the rights of others under what they consider to be trumped up charges. They don't appreciate abandonment of the law or human rights.

And rightly so. However, the original summary (a link WOULD be appreciated, BTW) indicates some of the suspects turned out to be known associsates of confirmed terrorists. And THIS is where more detail of the situation is really needed.

Were these "connected" terrorists at liberty? In prison? Is it an abridgement of human rights to detain/question known associates of terrorists? What makes that different than police taking a material witness into custody (which IS legal)?

[iain]

Sorry for not posting a link earlier. I am bad person. (I was carefully posting the thread and got distracted. I read the original story in the printed newspaper so I had to track down the link).

Here is the latest story in The Observer.

I'm having trouble finding links to the original story on 22nd April.

Here's one in The Mirror.

Quote:

The swoop in Manchester followed the arrest of ten people on Monday when a potential suicide bomb plot was foiled. Last night they were still being questioned.

Manchester United's Old Trafford stadium and the nearby Trafford Centre shopping complex were believed to be possible targets.

The media did print the story that all the suspects were released without charge; I don't think this is an irresponsible media story (not that there aren't a lot of those around, mind).

We are currently experiencing a rather long period without any terrorist attacks in the mainland UK - probably the longest for years. Doubtless some of this is due to the terrorist threat being overdone (it's in the interests of both terrorists and governments to do so), and some is due to other factors such as good police work and good intelligence.

I'm concerned that the government is justifying limiting our liberties, controlling us more, increasing our taxes and suchlike by building up the terrorist threat to be a bogeyman out of all proportion to reality.

Maybe it's alright for innocent people to be arrested as long as they are immigrants or merely of arab or asian appearance, but I don't think so myself.

To quote Bruce Schneier in "Beyond Fear" (2003) :

Quote:

If you don't live in a major coastal metropolitan city or next to a nuclear power plant or chemical factory, you're more likely to die of a bee sting than a terrorist attack. Even if you do live in a big city or next door to a power plant, the odds of being a terrorist victim are still vanishingly small.

[Richard G]

You Brits pissed away your rights when you allowed the goverment to confiscate your guns.

Your on the slippery slope now. Its quite nauseating to watch really.

[Bjorn]

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard G
You Brits pissed away your rights when you allowed the goverment to confiscate your guns.

I think I saw a little program that allows you to post the same post at regular intervals on online forums - say, once a day.

Do you know how much it is?

[Shaun from Scotland]

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard G
You Brits pissed away your rights when you allowed the goverment to confiscate your guns.

Your on the slippery slope now. Its quite nauseating to watch really.

Dicky constantly lying about this is neither big nor clever. This has been pointed out to you umpteen times. Please try and take your blinkers off for once in your life.

[Exposer]

Quote:

Originally posted by E.J.Armstrong


Brits complain when the powers that be abuse the rights of others under what they consider to be trumped up charges. They don't appreciate abandonment of the law or human rights.

What "rights" are being abused when some guys are arrested, questioned, and released?

[iain]

Quote:

Originally posted by Exposer
What "rights" are being abused when some guys are arrested, questioned, and released?

It is an abuse of state power if people are arrested without due cause. For the police to break into people's homes, arrest them, question them, search their homes etc. there really should be good cause to suspect them first; otherwise it's just a police state.

I don't know whether there really was good cause in this case, but if so the police really ought to be improving their detective work because ten wrong out of ten isn't that great,

[richardm]

Quote:

Originally posted by iain
And the Man United threat? One of these innocent men, wrongly identified as terrorists, was a Man Utd. fan and had a ticket to an old match in his house. That's it. At the time the papers went to press with the Man Utd. threat story, the Uk government knew there was no substance to it, but chose not to try to correct the media.

Actually, I think you're wrong there. There was plenty of speculation that Man. U. was going to be the target, but the police were clear from the outset that there was no reason to think that it was the case, and said as much to the Man. U. management.

It was entirely media driven - the thought of a bomb at a footie match was obviously quite "exciting" to the papers.

[richardm]

Quote:

Originally posted by iain
I don't know whether there really was good cause in this case, but if so the police really ought to be improving their detective work because ten wrong out of ten isn't that great,

Look on the bright side: Twenty years ago, the police would have trumped up charges against them, just to save face.

[iain]

Quote:

Originally posted by richardm


Look on the bright side: Twenty years ago, the police would have trumped up charges against them, just to save face.

You have a good point, the police have cleaned up their act a lot.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Quote:

originally posted by Jocko
Were these "connected" terrorists at liberty? In prison? Is it an abridgement of human rights to detain/question known associates of terrorists? What makes that different than police taking a material witness into custody (which IS legal)?

What type of 'connections' do you mean? That they once went to the same school, that they have the same surname? It is very possible to abridge human rights by detaining people. For example, if you do it to harass and without due cause.

Decent people don't want to live in a state where human rights of any group are trampled just because of bandwagons started by rabble rouser politicians or the gutter press.

[E.J.Armstrong]

Quote:

originally posted by exposer
What "rights" are being abused when some guys are arrested, questioned, and released?

Already explained by Iain. If the police want to ask people questions, they can ask them questions. They do not need to label people terrorist suspects on the basis of faulty intelligence, apparently of similar quality to that used as a cover for invading Iraq.

[Kerberos]

Quote:

Originally posted by Richard G
You Brits pissed away your rights when you allowed the goverment to confiscate your guns.

So if this happened you in US you would take you gun and begin shoting police officers, tax collecters or other governement agents? If you wouldn't then you having guns wouldn't make a whiskers difference. If you would then please let me know when and where, so I can come and watch natural selection in action.