[Merged] Christopher Hitchens (1949-2011) - Page 5

myowninvention · 16th December 2011, 06:54 PM

May he live on in the minds of all those he inspired.

TubbaBlubba · 16th December 2011, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by aviolet4u

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...201112#slide=1

He was handsome.

That he was. I recall from the pictures in Hitch-22 that his father was also extremely handsome, and his mother was very beautiful.

Actually, he was good looking even in older years, though the overweight did not exactly suit him well, and the years of cigarettes and alcohol seemed to have taken their toll. Look at this photo for instance: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XqUnk0CGY3...00/hitch22.jpg (yeah, the beard is pretty terrible).

And I say this as a straight male.

aviolet4u · 16th December 2011, 07:05 PM

I already miss him, can't believe there won't be any new youtube videos of someone getting "hitchslapped"

Pardalis · 16th December 2011, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by aviolet4u

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...201112#slide=1

He was handsome. I'm also a bit angry that he drank and smoked so much. The world needed him several more decades!!

It's also about genetics, his father died of the same thing.

He was handsome, even later he had alot of charisma.

I already read "God is Not Great" a few years ago, but I think I'll buy the audiobook read by himself.

Roadtoad · 16th December 2011, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by Travis

So no more juicy youtube debates where he makes some religious nut look like an imbecile.

Not that his opponents made it all that hard.

Originally Posted by MoeFaux

I mourn.

Ditto, this.

Originally Posted by tim

I am deeply saddened by the loss of an intellectual giant. Mr Hitchens was not one to suffer fools gladly and many a person has felt the lashing of his tongue. That said, his lifestyle was not one that exactly promoted longevity.
Let it be said that he was never, ever, boring!

True, but most importantly, he was accurate.

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

The first I knew of Christopher Hitchens was an appearance on Politically Incorrect years ago. I found him terribly offensive because he was savaging Mother Teresa, of whom I knew only the popular mythology regarding her mission. After I looked into Mother Teresa in more detail and read Hitchen's book The Missionary Position, my opinions of both Hitchens and Mother Teresa were altered considerably.

Thank you Mr. Hitchens. Your life was shorter than it should have been, but you spent it well.

I went through this, too. Scary business, that. It does alter your mindset considerably.

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I heard--I think it was on an old interview of his on C-SPAN--that he had a Jewish grandmother from the Ukraine. Can anyone confirm this?

Wow. At no point did this have any bearing on anything of any particular consequence.

You're 10 for 10, MaGZ.

TubbaBlubba · 16th December 2011, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

It's also about genetics, his father died of the same thing.

It could be combined. I don't remember, did The Commander smoke/drink a lot?

Joey McGee · 16th December 2011, 07:54 PM

When I said this man helped me, I meant that he triggered what it is to be a free human with his ideas and words, and helped break the control of cult religion expertly. This is an example. Linked to the part I mean in "The Best of the Hitch slap"

aviolet4u · 16th December 2011, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba

That he was. I recall from the pictures in Hitch-22 that his father was also extremely handsome, and his mother was very beautiful.

Actually, he was good looking even in older years, though the overweight did not exactly suit him well, and the years of cigarettes and alcohol seemed to have taken their toll.

I understand he lived his life to the fullest on his terms. His father died of cancer and yet he didn't take any precautions. I had a professor who reminded me of him. He smoked cigars, drank, was overweight (over 250 lbs) and in his sixties at the time. He would say his father lived till his 90's smoking cigars so he had no worries.

He was intellectual- brash, witty, articulate as well. I was always intimidated, no doubt would've felt the same if I'd met Hitchens.

The Central Scrutinizer · 16th December 2011, 09:40 PM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Very sad. He was brilliant and unapologetic. There aren't any other like him.

There's at least one more.

Me.

I'm not as witty, nor as great a writer, but I am brilliant, and I never apologize for my opinions.

The Central Scrutinizer · 16th December 2011, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by h.g.Whiz

I feel weird being the only one here that had never heard of him until today. Was he a member here?

Yes. He went by "UncaYimmy".

Pardalis · 16th December 2011, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

There's at least one more.

Me.

I'm not as witty, nor as great a writer, but I am brilliant, and I never apologize for my opinions.

That's right, and you're funny too.

trustbutverify · 16th December 2011, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Another tragic victim of the Iraq war disaster.

Another fine example of the intellectual majesty that is 9/11 truth.

trustbutverify · 16th December 2011, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by angrysoba

It would be boring if there were no dissenters from the mourning of Hitchens.

I am sure that he wouldn't want a Princess Diana-style gush-a-thon and Hitchens and Cockburn had long since ceased being civil to each other.

Cockburn hated Hitchens not just for his loud support of the war but his active denigration of those who opposed it, branding the opposition to the war as "objectively pro-fascist". Also, he hated him for what Cockburn considered attention-seeking attacks on Edward Said, which began when Said was on his death-bed. Cockburn thought this was a betrayal of one of his mentors and he thought Hitchens betrayed a number of other friends and mentors that had assisted his career.

I think Cockburn has some fair points, in fact, and his obituary is not as snide as some of the other things Cockburn wrote about Hitchens when he was alive.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I consider Cockburn to be a racist, sexist self serving douchebag and Counterpunch to be Stormfronts leftist sister.

I admired and liked Hitch- and mourn his passing. There were plenty of things not to like about him and I have no problem having those things pointed out. The fact that a trivial gasbag like Cockburn is doing it is repulsive.

trustbutverify · 16th December 2011, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

You mean to say Counterpunch is anti-Zionist.

Game, set, match.

cambion · 16th December 2011, 11:11 PM

"I think...if you look at [Cockburn's] journalism, he would rightly be proud of saying that he's often written counter-obituaries of people who have been overpraised and has chosen precisely the moment when there's a lot of sentimental garbage being published to say, 'come on, this guy wasn't so great!'

-- Christopher Hitchens, apparently making some awesomely meta pre-posthumous point about Cockburn's obituary of him.

(I think Cockburn is a douche and Hitchens was great, but this quote is just hilarious in this context)

trustbutverify · 16th December 2011, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by cambion

"I think...if you look at [Cockburn's] journalism, he would rightly be proud of saying that he's often written counter-obituaries of people who have been overpraised and has chosen precisely the moment when there's a lot of sentimental garbage being published to say, 'come on, this guy wasn't so great!'

-- Christopher Hitchens, apparently making some awesomely meta pre-posthumous point about Cockburn's obituary of him.

(I think Cockburn is a douche and Hitchens was great, but this quote is just hilarious in this context)

Great find.

UnrepentantSinner · 16th December 2011, 11:31 PM

Book TV gives Hitch an hour and a half in prime time Saturday night. An interview discussing Hitch 22 and a debate with David Berlinski.
http://www.booktv.org/schedule.aspx
Both segments should be availible on-line (at least for Americans).

Originally Posted by Tony

Goodbye Mr. Hitchens, you've touched my life live no other.

ETA: I just read that he passed away at the same place as my mom here in Houston. That is surreal.

M.D. Anderson works miracles, but even they can't save everybody.

JihadJane · 17th December 2011, 03:16 AM

Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth

Hitchens died of cancer.

Maybe I should have said 9/11 (rather than Iraq), the event that pushed the old Trotskyist into the arms of George Bush and the crazed neocons, from one extreme to the other, "with no intervening period of sanity" - not an uncommon trajectory for privileged "socialists" in the UK imbued with macho delusions of military glory and hungry for the approval and the trappings of respectability.

He died with much blood on his alcoholic hands. Strange how some people here regard alcoholism as living life to the full.

There are some interesting insights into what motivated his political beliefs in this May 2010 interview:

'Christopher Hitchens: 'I was right and they were wrong'
From hero of the left to neocon turncoat, and still battling on: Christopher Hitchens talks to Decca Aitkenhead about old arguments and his new memoir'

""""In 2006, Hitchens' wife, the American writer Carol Blue, told the New Yorker her husband was one of "those men who were never really in battle and wished they had been. There's a whole tough-guy, 'I am violent, I will use violence, I will take some of these people out before I die' talk, which is key to his psychology – I don't care what he says. I think it is partly to do with his upbringing."

Is there any truth in what his wife said? He pauses for a second. Then, unexpectedly: "Yeah. Yes. One of the things I've realised, writing the book, is that it has to be true."""""

Belz... · 17th December 2011, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I heard--I think it was on an old interview of his on C-SPAN--that he had a Jewish grandmother from the Ukraine. Can anyone confirm this?

What is it with you and Jews, anyway ?

Belz... · 17th December 2011, 03:39 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

He died with much blood on his alcoholic hands.

It's interesting how easy it is to spot heartless people on this forum.

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 03:43 AM

“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.”

RIP. The world is a better place. Thanks.

BaaBaa · 17th December 2011, 04:40 AM

Somebody mentioned something about deathbed conversions?

Ray Comfort considers the proposition and answers with an authoritative, "I dunno. Maybe?"

http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2...no-longer.html

JihadJane · 17th December 2011, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Belz...

It's interesting how easy it is to spot heartless people on this forum.

Ha ha! I don't think Hitchens would have much sympathy for sentimental superstitions about respecting the dead or airbrushing corpses.

“It is a shame that there isn’t a hell for him to go to. We have been rid of an extremely dangerous demagogue who lived by hatred of others and prejudice.” - Hitchens, on the death of Jerry Falwell.

Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. The old Trotskyist did indeed die with blood on his hands.

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Ha ha! I don't think Hitchens would have much sympathy for sentimental superstitions about respecting the dead or airbrushing corpses.

“It is a shame that there isn’t a hell for him to go to. We have been rid of an extremely dangerous demagogue who lived by hatred of others and prejudice.” - Hitchens, on the death of Jerry Falwell.

Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. The old Trotskyist did indeed die with blood on his hands.

And you say this, I suppose because you know more than he did about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time?

ETA: and in the past?

JihadJane · 17th December 2011, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by MaGZ

I heard--I think it was on an old interview of his on C-SPAN--that he had a Jewish grandmother from the Ukraine. Can anyone confirm this?

I don't remember where but I read that his brother thought this was rubbish.

Originally Posted by MaGZ

Please explain

The article I linked to, above, discusses the roots of his dramatic, post 9/11, political realignment and his dogged support for the Iraq war atrocity which destroyed his reputation in the eyes of many former admirers. It seems that it was his overwhelming desire to make a heroic stand against evil that tripped him up.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Originally Posted by Krikkiter

And you say this, I suppose because you know more than he did about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time?

ETA: and in the past?

Please flesh out this crude personalization with some content. Thanks.

Do you consider speaking ill of the dead to be an indication of heartlessness?

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 05:16 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...cca-aitkenhead

Pulp.

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

I don't remember where but I read that his brother thought this was rubbish.

The article I linked to, above, discusses the roots of his dramatic, post 9/11, political realignment and his dogged support for the Iraq war atrocity which destroyed his reputation in the eyes of many former admirers. It seems that it was his overwhelming desire to make a heroic stand against evil that tripped him up.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Please flesh out this crude personalization with some content. Thanks.

Do you consider speaking ill of the dead to be an indication of heartlessness?

I asked a simple question and this is your response.

JihadJane · 17th December 2011, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Krikkiter

I asked a simple question and this is your response.

It was a fair response to your crude content-free personalization. Your "simple question" came across as purely rhetorical with nothing substantial in it that I could respond to. That's why I requested some detail.

What special knowledge did Hitchens have "about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time"?

Originally Posted by Krikkiter

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...cca-aitkenhead

Pulp.

Knee-jerk.

It is an intimate and revealing interview.

How much of it did you read?

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

It was a fair response to your crude content-free personalization. Your "simple question" came across as purely rhetorical with nothing substantial in it that I could respond to. That's why I requested some detail.

What special knowledge did Hitchens have "about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time"?

I asked you first. Do you know more than Hitchens did about the political goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time? You haven't answered yet and I doubt that you can.

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Knee-jerk.

It is an intimate and revealing interview.

How much of it did you read?

I bet the interviewer wishes it was.

h.g.Whiz · 17th December 2011, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

Yes. He went by "UncaYimmy".

Pardalis · 17th December 2011, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man.

That one man caused death, mutilation, dislocation and trauma of millions of Iraqi and Kurdish men, women and children. But you didn't care, because that man was a socialist.

Foolmewunz · 17th December 2011, 06:05 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. The old Trotskyist did indeed die with blood on his hands.

This is a ridiculous contention. Hitch may have been a demi-god (ironically) in skeptic, freethinker and atheist circles. I do not know of anyone who had any say over the execution of the war who was swayed by Christopher's "conversion". I was upset by it, too. But I doubt that anyone in Whitehall St., Pennsylvania Avenue, Alexandria or Langley listened to him.

I'll stand corrected if someone can show me a government (either one) white paper citing his information or rhetoric, but I just don't think that such exists.

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

This is a ridiculous contention. Hitch may have been a demi-god (ironically) in skeptic, freethinker and atheist circles. I do not know of anyone who had any say over the execution of the war who was swayed by Christopher's "conversion". I was upset by it, too. But I doubt that anyone in Whitehall St., Pennsylvania Avenue, Alexandria or Langley listened to him.

I'll stand corrected if someone can show me a government (either one) white paper citing his information or rhetoric, but I just don't think that such exists.

And since you bring it up (rather than the op), yes I was confused, to say the least about what he had to say re: the Iraq war. But I am certain, knowing the company he kept, the secrets he must have known and his compulsive interest in politics that he knew more about the whole thing than anyone posting on this forum.

That doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with what he had to say. What it does mean though, is that I am more than likely less informed than he was.

Mojo · 17th December 2011, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

Obit in the Grauniad.

Also from the Grauniad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tchens-cartoon

Mojo · 17th December 2011, 06:18 AM

Edited by Tricky:

Edited for rule 12.

Krikkiter · 17th December 2011, 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mojo

Also from the Grauniad:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tchens-cartoon

Says a lot about that particular rag.

devnull · 17th December 2011, 06:33 AM

Edited by Tricky:

Edited for response to modded post.

Resume · 17th December 2011, 06:51 AM

Edited by Tricky:

Edited for response to modded post.

JudeBrando · 17th December 2011, 06:59 AM

The world has lost a brilliant and independent mind.

"It is appointed once for man to die, then judgment."

Father Dagon · 17th December 2011, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

No. Just very famous in the atheist community.

Never say never. He could've been an incognito member. (Not that I'd want to know. It's probablu rules against outing and I want to keep the magic. :P)

Originally Posted by Milbrandt

Hitchens' life is over, that really is the end
He knew that like no other and he never would pretend
That when his body'd perish, his soul would then go on
His soul was just the product of his brain and now it's gone
I'll miss the guy and though real soon his body may be rotten
His legacy, that's sure as hell, will never be forgotten

Enjoying a bottle of black label in his honour right now.
That may sound superstitious, but it tastes pretty good.
Cheers Christopher!

Solemn and nice.

Originally Posted by The Fallen Serpent

The Onion is a news comedy website. Basically the non-article was a compliment to Hitchens' great reasoning, debate and writing skills while insulting those who may seek to tear apart Hitchens' arguement after his death.

I know. But are you sure it isn't some kind of subscription required? Because if not, they've perfected the truly laconic comedy:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/equ...less-co,26862/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/lea...y-sente,26835/
http://www.theonion.com/articles/nas...-exhibi,26800/
:-S

16th December 2011, 06:54 PM	#161
myowninvention Thinker Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 136	May he live on in the minds of all those he inspired.
myowninvention Thinker Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 136

16th December 2011, 07:05 PM	#162
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,409	Originally Posted by aviolet4u http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...201112#slide=1 He was handsome. That he was. I recall from the pictures in Hitch-22 that his father was also extremely handsome, and his mother was very beautiful. Actually, he was good looking even in older years, though the overweight did not exactly suit him well, and the years of cigarettes and alcohol seemed to have taken their toll. Look at this photo for instance: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XqUnk0CGY3...00/hitch22.jpg (yeah, the beard is pretty terrible). And I say this as a straight male.
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

16th December 2011, 07:13 PM	#164
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by aviolet4u http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/fe...201112#slide=1 He was handsome. I'm also a bit angry that he drank and smoked so much. The world needed him several more decades!! It's also about genetics, his father died of the same thing. He was handsome, even later he had alot of charisma. I already read "God is Not Great" a few years ago, but I think I'll buy the audiobook read by himself.
	Last edited by Pardalis; 16th December 2011 at 07:15 PM.

16th December 2011, 07:50 PM	#166
TubbaBlubba Knave of the Dudes Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Communist Kingdom of Sweden Posts: 7,409	Originally Posted by Pardalis It's also about genetics, his father died of the same thing. It could be combined. I don't remember, did The Commander smoke/drink a lot?
	__________________ Disagreement begets progress.

16th December 2011, 07:54 PM	#167
Joey McGee Transcendental Naturalist Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,126	When I said this man helped me, I meant that he triggered what it is to be a free human with his ideas and words, and helped break the control of cult religion expertly. This is an example. Linked to the part I mean in "The Best of the Hitch slap"
	__________________ How do I know that this is so? By looking!

16th December 2011, 07:05 PM	#163
aviolet4u Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 372	I already miss him, can't believe there won't be any new youtube videos of someone getting "hitchslapped"

16th December 2011, 07:49 PM	#165
Roadtoad Bufo Caminus Inedibilis Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Gone. Posts: 15,738	Originally Posted by Travis So no more juicy youtube debates where he makes some religious nut look like an imbecile. Not that his opponents made it all that hard. Originally Posted by MoeFaux I mourn. Ditto, this. Originally Posted by tim I am deeply saddened by the loss of an intellectual giant. Mr Hitchens was not one to suffer fools gladly and many a person has felt the lashing of his tongue. That said, his lifestyle was not one that exactly promoted longevity. Let it be said that he was never, ever, boring! True, but most importantly, he was accurate. Originally Posted by Foster Zygote The first I knew of Christopher Hitchens was an appearance on Politically Incorrect years ago. I found him terribly offensive because he was savaging Mother Teresa, of whom I knew only the popular mythology regarding her mission. After I looked into Mother Teresa in more detail and read Hitchen's book The Missionary Position, my opinions of both Hitchens and Mother Teresa were altered considerably. Thank you Mr. Hitchens. Your life was shorter than it should have been, but you spent it well. I went through this, too. Scary business, that. It does alter your mindset considerably. Originally Posted by MaGZ I heard--I think it was on an old interview of his on C-SPAN--that he had a Jewish grandmother from the Ukraine. Can anyone confirm this? Wow. At no point did this have any bearing on anything of any particular consequence. You're 10 for 10, MaGZ.

16th December 2011, 08:10 PM	#168
aviolet4u Critical Thinker Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 372	Originally Posted by TubbaBlubba That he was. I recall from the pictures in Hitch-22 that his father was also extremely handsome, and his mother was very beautiful. Actually, he was good looking even in older years, though the overweight did not exactly suit him well, and the years of cigarettes and alcohol seemed to have taken their toll. I understand he lived his life to the fullest on his terms. His father died of cancer and yet he didn't take any precautions. I had a professor who reminded me of him. He smoked cigars, drank, was overweight (over 250 lbs) and in his sixties at the time. He would say his father lived till his 90's smoking cigars so he had no worries. He was intellectual- brash, witty, articulate as well. I was always intimidated, no doubt would've felt the same if I'd met Hitchens.
	Last edited by aviolet4u; 16th December 2011 at 08:13 PM.

16th December 2011, 09:40 PM	#169
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,275	Originally Posted by Pardalis Very sad. He was brilliant and unapologetic. There aren't any other like him. There's at least one more. Me. I'm not as witty, nor as great a writer, but I am brilliant, and I never apologize for my opinions.
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

16th December 2011, 09:48 PM	#170
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,275	Originally Posted by h.g.Whiz I feel weird being the only one here that had never heard of him until today. Was he a member here? Yes. He went by "UncaYimmy".
	__________________ If I see somebody with a gun on a plane? I'll kill him.

16th December 2011, 10:18 PM	#171
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer There's at least one more. Me. I'm not as witty, nor as great a writer, but I am brilliant, and I never apologize for my opinions. That's right, and you're funny too.

16th December 2011, 10:37 PM	#172
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,082	Originally Posted by JihadJane Another tragic victim of the Iraq war disaster. Another fine example of the intellectual majesty that is 9/11 truth.

16th December 2011, 10:42 PM	#173
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,082	Originally Posted by angrysoba It would be boring if there were no dissenters from the mourning of Hitchens. I am sure that he wouldn't want a Princess Diana-style gush-a-thon and Hitchens and Cockburn had long since ceased being civil to each other. Cockburn hated Hitchens not just for his loud support of the war but his active denigration of those who opposed it, branding the opposition to the war as "objectively pro-fascist". Also, he hated him for what Cockburn considered attention-seeking attacks on Edward Said, which began when Said was on his death-bed. Cockburn thought this was a betrayal of one of his mentors and he thought Hitchens betrayed a number of other friends and mentors that had assisted his career. I think Cockburn has some fair points, in fact, and his obituary is not as snide as some of the other things Cockburn wrote about Hitchens when he was alive. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I consider Cockburn to be a racist, sexist self serving douchebag and Counterpunch to be Stormfronts leftist sister. I admired and liked Hitch- and mourn his passing. There were plenty of things not to like about him and I have no problem having those things pointed out. The fact that a trivial gasbag like Cockburn is doing it is repulsive.
	Last edited by trustbutverify; 16th December 2011 at 11:01 PM.

16th December 2011, 10:43 PM	#174
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,082	Originally Posted by MaGZ You mean to say Counterpunch is anti-Zionist. Game, set, match.

16th December 2011, 11:11 PM	#175
cambion Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 393	"I think...if you look at [Cockburn's] journalism, he would rightly be proud of saying that he's often written counter-obituaries of people who have been overpraised and has chosen precisely the moment when there's a lot of sentimental garbage being published to say, 'come on, this guy wasn't so great!' -- Christopher Hitchens, apparently making some awesomely meta pre-posthumous point about Cockburn's obituary of him. (I think Cockburn is a douche and Hitchens was great, but this quote is just hilarious in this context)
cambion Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 393	__________________ I hate those guys. Ever since their 9-11 conspiracy debunk show which didn't debunk anything I never liked them again. Tried to make CT'S out to be utter quacks.

16th December 2011, 11:14 PM	#176
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,082	Originally Posted by cambion "I think...if you look at [Cockburn's] journalism, he would rightly be proud of saying that he's often written counter-obituaries of people who have been overpraised and has chosen precisely the moment when there's a lot of sentimental garbage being published to say, 'come on, this guy wasn't so great!' -- Christopher Hitchens, apparently making some awesomely meta pre-posthumous point about Cockburn's obituary of him. (I think Cockburn is a douche and Hitchens was great, but this quote is just hilarious in this context) Great find.

16th December 2011, 11:31 PM	#177
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,355	Book TV gives Hitch an hour and a half in prime time Saturday night. An interview discussing Hitch 22 and a debate with David Berlinski. http://www.booktv.org/schedule.aspx Both segments should be availible on-line (at least for Americans). Originally Posted by Tony Goodbye Mr. Hitchens, you've touched my life live no other. ETA: I just read that he passed away at the same place as my mom here in Houston. That is surreal. M.D. Anderson works miracles, but even they can't save everybody.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

17th December 2011, 03:16 AM	#178
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,721	Originally Posted by Sword_Of_Truth Hitchens died of cancer. Maybe I should have said 9/11 (rather than Iraq), the event that pushed the old Trotskyist into the arms of George Bush and the crazed neocons, from one extreme to the other, "with no intervening period of sanity" - not an uncommon trajectory for privileged "socialists" in the UK imbued with macho delusions of military glory and hungry for the approval and the trappings of respectability. He died with much blood on his alcoholic hands. Strange how some people here regard alcoholism as living life to the full. There are some interesting insights into what motivated his political beliefs in this May 2010 interview: 'Christopher Hitchens: 'I was right and they were wrong' From hero of the left to neocon turncoat, and still battling on: Christopher Hitchens talks to Decca Aitkenhead about old arguments and his new memoir' """"In 2006, Hitchens' wife, the American writer Carol Blue, told the New Yorker her husband was one of "those men who were never really in battle and wished they had been. There's a whole tough-guy, 'I am violent, I will use violence, I will take some of these people out before I die' talk, which is key to his psychology – I don't care what he says. I think it is partly to do with his upbringing." Is there any truth in what his wife said? He pauses for a second. Then, unexpectedly: "Yeah. Yes. One of the things I've realised, writing the book, is that it has to be true."""""
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH Last edited by JihadJane; 17th December 2011 at 03:27 AM.

17th December 2011, 03:37 AM	#179
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,500	Originally Posted by MaGZ I heard--I think it was on an old interview of his on C-SPAN--that he had a Jewish grandmother from the Ukraine. Can anyone confirm this? What is it with you and Jews, anyway ?
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17th December 2011, 03:39 AM	#180
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,500	Originally Posted by JihadJane He died with much blood on his alcoholic hands. It's interesting how easy it is to spot heartless people on this forum.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za: "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey "Physical evidence must be observed and interpreted by witnesses which makes it subjective and subject to mistakes and to fraud." - Robert Prey

17th December 2011, 03:43 AM	#181
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	“Beware the irrational, however seductive. Shun the 'transcendent' and all who invite you to subordinate or annihilate yourself. Distrust compassion; prefer dignity for yourself and others. Don't be afraid to be thought arrogant or selfish. Picture all experts as if they were mammals. Never be a spectator of unfairness or stupidity. Seek out argument and disputation for their own sake; the grave will supply plenty of time for silence. Suspect your own motives, and all excuses. Do not live for others any more than you would expect others to live for you.” RIP. The world is a better place. Thanks.
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17th December 2011, 04:40 AM	#182
BaaBaa Semi-literate hench-person Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 1,419	Somebody mentioned something about deathbed conversions? Ray Comfort considers the proposition and answers with an authoritative, "I dunno. Maybe?" http://raycomfortfood.blogspot.com/2...no-longer.html
	__________________ "Damn, i think you are illeterate"

17th December 2011, 04:51 AM	#183
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,721	Originally Posted by Belz... It's interesting how easy it is to spot heartless people on this forum. Ha ha! I don't think Hitchens would have much sympathy for sentimental superstitions about respecting the dead or airbrushing corpses. “It is a shame that there isn’t a hell for him to go to. We have been rid of an extremely dangerous demagogue who lived by hatred of others and prejudice.” - Hitchens, on the death of Jerry Falwell. Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. The old Trotskyist did indeed die with blood on his hands.
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH Last edited by JihadJane; 17th December 2011 at 04:52 AM.

17th December 2011, 05:07 AM	#184
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	Originally Posted by JihadJane Ha ha! I don't think Hitchens would have much sympathy for sentimental superstitions about respecting the dead or airbrushing corpses. “It is a shame that there isn’t a hell for him to go to. We have been rid of an extremely dangerous demagogue who lived by hatred of others and prejudice.” - Hitchens, on the death of Jerry Falwell. Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. The old Trotskyist did indeed die with blood on his hands. And you say this, I suppose because you know more than he did about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time? ETA: and in the past?
	__________________ "Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."

17th December 2011, 05:11 AM	#185
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,721	Originally Posted by MaGZ I heard--I think it was on an old interview of his on C-SPAN--that he had a Jewish grandmother from the Ukraine. Can anyone confirm this? I don't remember where but I read that his brother thought this was rubbish. Originally Posted by MaGZ Please explain The article I linked to, above, discusses the roots of his dramatic, post 9/11, political realignment and his dogged support for the Iraq war atrocity which destroyed his reputation in the eyes of many former admirers. It seems that it was his overwhelming desire to make a heroic stand against evil that tripped him up. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Originally Posted by Krikkiter And you say this, I suppose because you know more than he did about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time? ETA: and in the past? Please flesh out this crude personalization with some content. Thanks. Do you consider speaking ill of the dead to be an indication of heartlessness?
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH Last edited by JihadJane; 17th December 2011 at 05:16 AM.

17th December 2011, 05:16 AM	#186
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...cca-aitkenhead Pulp.
	__________________ "Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."

17th December 2011, 05:18 AM	#187
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	Originally Posted by JihadJane I don't remember where but I read that his brother thought this was rubbish. The article I linked to, above, discusses the roots of his dramatic, post 9/11, political realignment and his dogged support for the Iraq war atrocity which destroyed his reputation in the eyes of many former admirers. It seems that it was his overwhelming desire to make a heroic stand against evil that tripped him up. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Please flesh out this crude personalization with some content. Thanks. Do you consider speaking ill of the dead to be an indication of heartlessness? I asked a simple question and this is your response.
	__________________ "Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."

17th December 2011, 05:24 AM	#188
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,721	Originally Posted by Krikkiter I asked a simple question and this is your response. It was a fair response to your crude content-free personalization. Your "simple question" came across as purely rhetorical with nothing substantial in it that I could respond to. That's why I requested some detail. What special knowledge did Hitchens have "about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time"? Originally Posted by Krikkiter http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010...cca-aitkenhead Pulp. Knee-jerk. It is an intimate and revealing interview. How much of it did you read?
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH Last edited by JihadJane; 17th December 2011 at 05:27 AM.

17th December 2011, 05:35 AM	#189
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	Originally Posted by JihadJane It was a fair response to your crude content-free personalization. Your "simple question" came across as purely rhetorical with nothing substantial in it that I could respond to. That's why I requested some detail. What special knowledge did Hitchens have "about the goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time"? I asked you first. Do you know more than Hitchens did about the political goings on in Washington, London and Iraq at the time? You haven't answered yet and I doubt that you can. Originally Posted by JihadJane Knee-jerk. It is an intimate and revealing interview. How much of it did you read? I bet the interviewer wishes it was.
	__________________ "Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."

17th December 2011, 05:38 AM	#190
h.g.Whiz Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Egoville Posts: 3,083	Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer Yes. He went by "UncaYimmy".
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17th December 2011, 05:49 AM	#191
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by JihadJane Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. That one man caused death, mutilation, dislocation and trauma of millions of Iraqi and Kurdish men, women and children. But you didn't care, because that man was a socialist.

17th December 2011, 06:05 AM	#192
Foolmewunz Grammar Resistance Leader Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Pattaya, Thailand Posts: 20,516	Originally Posted by JihadJane Hitchens' propagandizing contributed to the death, mutilation, dislocation and traumatization of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi men, women and children. To his mind, all this was justified by the removal of one man. The old Trotskyist did indeed die with blood on his hands. This is a ridiculous contention. Hitch may have been a demi-god (ironically) in skeptic, freethinker and atheist circles. I do not know of anyone who had any say over the execution of the war who was swayed by Christopher's "conversion". I was upset by it, too. But I doubt that anyone in Whitehall St., Pennsylvania Avenue, Alexandria or Langley listened to him. I'll stand corrected if someone can show me a government (either one) white paper citing his information or rhetoric, but I just don't think that such exists.
	__________________ Ha! Foolmewunz has just been added to the list of people who aren't complete idiots. Hokulele Don't you wish someone had slapped baby Hitler really really hard? [i] Dr. Buzzo 02/13 [i]

17th December 2011, 06:12 AM	#193
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	Originally Posted by Foolmewunz This is a ridiculous contention. Hitch may have been a demi-god (ironically) in skeptic, freethinker and atheist circles. I do not know of anyone who had any say over the execution of the war who was swayed by Christopher's "conversion". I was upset by it, too. But I doubt that anyone in Whitehall St., Pennsylvania Avenue, Alexandria or Langley listened to him. I'll stand corrected if someone can show me a government (either one) white paper citing his information or rhetoric, but I just don't think that such exists. And since you bring it up (rather than the op), yes I was confused, to say the least about what he had to say re: the Iraq war. But I am certain, knowing the company he kept, the secrets he must have known and his compulsive interest in politics that he knew more about the whole thing than anyone posting on this forum. That doesn't mean that I necessarily agree with what he had to say. What it does mean though, is that I am more than likely less informed than he was.
	__________________ "Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."

17th December 2011, 06:13 AM	#194
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,089	Originally Posted by zooterkin Obit in the Grauniad. Also from the Grauniad: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tchens-cartoon
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17th December 2011, 06:19 AM	#196
Krikkiter Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,261	Originally Posted by Mojo Also from the Grauniad: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...tchens-cartoon Says a lot about that particular rag.
	__________________ "Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."