Tim Minchin censored on UK TV

zooterkin · 22nd December 2011, 06:08 AM

Tim Minchin wrote and recorded a new Christmas song (WoodyAllenJesus) specially for the Jonathan Ross show to be shown tomorrow night (23rd), only for it to be cut out later.

Quote:

Suzi and her team edited the show and everybody was happy. Suzi felt it had a nice balance of big-ticket celeb action, local talent, and a nice bit of that cheeky, iconoclastic spirit for which Jonathan is known and widely loved.

And then someone got nervous and sent the tape to ITV’s director of television, Peter Fincham.

And Peter Fincham demanded that I be cut from the show.

He did this because he’s scared of the ranty, ****-stirring, right-wing press, and of the small minority of Brits who believe they have a right to go through life protected from anything that challenges them in any way.

Full story here.

Here's the song:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

commandlinegamer · 22nd December 2011, 07:18 AM

Oh, the irony of something involved with Jonathan Ross being censored.

zooterkin · 22nd December 2011, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

Jonathan Ross is a **** anyway.

Maybe so, but he is also a skeptic in general (he was in the audience at TAM London), though he plays it down in public, I think (he had Adam Savage on his radio show at the time of TAM London, at which Savage spoke, but it was not mentioned on air). It would be interesting to know how much of a fight he put up.

richardm · 22nd December 2011, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

It would be interesting to know how much of a fight he put up.

Bearing in mind what happened last time he got the press' backs up - possibly not much.

Rat · 22nd December 2011, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by zooterkin

It would be interesting to know how much of a fight he put up.

All he's said on Twitter so far is that it was "out of my hands".

Matthew Best · 22nd December 2011, 08:51 AM

Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny.

Wildy · 22nd December 2011, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by matthew best

maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny.

blasphmey!!! Kill the unbeliever!!!

Rat · 22nd December 2011, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny.

That's not what ITV said -- although I guess they wouldn't even if that were the reason.

Skepticemea · 22nd December 2011, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny.

I find Minchin hit and miss, at best.

Matthew Best · 22nd December 2011, 09:12 AM

It's also too long.

Rat · 22nd December 2011, 09:20 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

It's also too long.

But neither this nor its possibly not being funny are relevant if it occurred as TM himself tells it. By his account, it was in the show and Ross, the producer, and everyone else was very happy with it. It was allegedly pulled much later when the ITV head of television heard about it.

Matthew Best · 22nd December 2011, 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by Rat

That's not what ITV said -- although I guess they wouldn't even if that were the reason.

What did ITV say?

zooterkin · 22nd December 2011, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

What did ITV say?

Not much, so far. According to the BBC:

Quote:

ITV said the decision to cut the song would have been taken by senior executives in conjunction with Jonathan Ross's production company, Hot Sauce.

It did not confirm Mr Fincham's involvement directly. But it is likely the broadcaster's director of television would have final approval of the programme, to be broadcast on 23 December.

"We often make changes to programmes before transmission," ITV said in its statement.

Rat · 22nd December 2011, 09:28 AM

Not right for the tone of the show, apparently.

http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2011/1...christmas_song

Matthew Best · 22nd December 2011, 09:30 AM

As far as I can tell from various news sources, ITV say:

it did not work “editorially”.

it “didn’t feel right for the show"

"didn't quite work editorially"

was "not right tonally"

Maybe if it had been funnier it would have been more in keeping with the tone of the show?

JoeTheJuggler · 22nd December 2011, 09:32 AM

Non-believers simply aren't supposed to say (or sing) "Jesus".

Whether the song was funny or not, good satire or not, victimless or not, are all beside the point, IMO.

ETA: I'm thinking of the Simpsons episode when Homer cries out, "Help me, Jeebus!" For whatever reason, that seems much more innocuous than if he'd cried out, "Help me, Jesus!"

cwalner · 22nd December 2011, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny.

I don't know, I kinda liked:

Jesus died and rose from the dead
Just like a movie with Simon Pegg.

Although Minchin does need to turn in his Geek card for mis-attributing 'With great power comes great responsibility' to Superman

Matthew Best · 22nd December 2011, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler

Whether the song was funny or not, good satire or not, victimless or not, are all beside the point, IMO.

Well, they're not beside the point if you're trying to edit together a good programme. If it's not funny then you might not want to include it.

DC · 22nd December 2011, 09:58 AM

i found it not very funny, but thanks to it being cut out of the programm it got far more attention than otherwise. its all over my Youtube start page

Mojo · 23rd December 2011, 02:26 AM

The Daily Wail has put two copies of the video in this story: Jonathan Ross show forced to pull comic's Jesus song in case it offends Christians

Just in case any Christians want to be offended, I suppose (check out the url, btw).

brodski · 23rd December 2011, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Maybe if it had been funnier it would have been more in keeping with the tone of the show?

That would have put it much futher out of line with anything Ross does...

Captain_Swoop · 23rd December 2011, 03:20 AM

Well, I have never found Minchin funny, and what's with the stupid hair and makeup? is it supposed to make him look 'efgy' or 'alternative'?

Seems to me he has puffed up some nice publicity for himself 'look how I am being censored by 'The Man'.

Ross himself is as funny as Botulism but he hasn't realised yet.

Last of the Fraggles · 23rd December 2011, 03:43 AM

Originally Posted by Matthew Best

Well, they're not beside the point if you're trying to edit together a good programme. If it's not funny then you might not want to include it.

Well, given that its not a comedy show I'm not sure if funny is the only criteria being used for whether it gets included or not.

I don't find much of what Minchin does 'funny' to be honest, but it's usually quite clever and entertaining. As is this.

This wasn't cut for reasons of not being very good, even if it was are you telling me that an additional 3 minutes of previously cut Tom Cruise or Downtown Abbey cast member chit-chat will be better?

Tsukasa Buddha · 23rd December 2011, 04:14 AM

I, for one, already worship Minchin, so this song was nothing new. He really is quite honest about it here:

Quote:

So I got to writing. Being Christmas, I thought it would be fun to do a song about Jesus, but being TV, I knew it would have to be gentle. The idea was to compare him to Woody Allen (short, Jewish, philosophical, a bit hesitant), and expand into redefining his other alleged attributes using modern, popular-culture terminology.

It’s not a particularly original idea, I admit, but it’s quite cute. It’s certainly not very contentious, but even so, compliance people and producers and lawyers all checked my lyrics long before the cameras rolled. As always with these bespoke writing jobs, I was really stressed for about 3 days, and almost chucked it in the bin 5 times, and freaked out that it wasn’t funny and all that boring **** that people like me go through when we’re lucky enough to have with a big audience with high expectations. And if I’m honest, it ain’t a world-changing bit of comedy. Regardless…

...

Yesterday I wrote a big rant about comedy and risk and conservatism; about the fact that my joke has no victim; about sacredness (oh God, not again!) and about the importance of laughing at dumb but pervasive ideas. But I trashed it because it’s boring and takes it all too seriously. It’s hardly the end of the world.

But I have to admit I’m really ******* disappointed.

It’s 2011. The appropriate reaction to people who think Jesus is a supernatural being is mild embarrassment, sighing tolerance and patient education.

Linky.

Pretty much my take on the song and the controversy.

zooterkin · 20th April 2012, 03:48 AM

Not related to the TV show, but this looks like the most appropriate thread to bump.

Tim Minchin is appearing on BBC Radio 4 Extra on Saturday night; this is a recording of a concert from 2008. The reason that it's worth mentioning is that you should be able to listen to this wherever you are, as the BBC doesn't restrict access to the radio programmes in the same way that they limit BBC iPlayer for TV.

You may also be able to save a copy if you happened to use something like Radio Downloader.

22nd December 2011, 07:18 AM	#2
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,891	Oh, the irony of something involved with Jonathan Ross being censored.
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house. Last edited by commandlinegamer; 22nd December 2011 at 07:27 AM.

22nd December 2011, 07:31 AM	#3
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,568	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer Jonathan Ross is a **** anyway. Maybe so, but he is also a skeptic in general (he was in the audience at TAM London), though he plays it down in public, I think (he had Adam Savage on his radio show at the time of TAM London, at which Savage spoke, but it was not mentioned on air). It would be interesting to know how much of a fight he put up.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

22nd December 2011, 08:20 AM	#4
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	Originally Posted by zooterkin It would be interesting to know how much of a fight he put up. Bearing in mind what happened last time he got the press' backs up - possibly not much.
richardm Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,270	__________________ Rimmer: Look at her! Magnificent woman! Very prim, very proper, almost austere. Some people took her for cold, thought she was aloof. Not a bit of it. She just despised fools. Quite tragic, really, because otherwise I think we'd have got on famously.

22nd December 2011, 08:40 AM	#5
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,051	Originally Posted by zooterkin It would be interesting to know how much of a fight he put up. All he's said on Twitter so far is that it was "out of my hands".
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

22nd December 2011, 08:58 AM	#7
Wildy Adelaidean Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Australia, not that you'll read the "location" field. Posts: 9,921	Originally Posted by matthew best maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny. blasphmey!!! Kill the unbeliever!!!
	__________________ Latest Blog Posts:Atheism+ More Atheism+ stuff

22nd December 2011, 08:51 AM	#6
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,113	Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny.

22nd December 2011, 08:59 AM	#8
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,051	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny. That's not what ITV said -- although I guess they wouldn't even if that were the reason.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

22nd December 2011, 09:00 AM	#9
Skepticemea Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: London, UK Posts: 2,277	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny. I find Minchin hit and miss, at best.

22nd December 2011, 09:12 AM	#10
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,113	It's also too long.

22nd December 2011, 09:20 AM	#11
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,051	Originally Posted by Matthew Best It's also too long. But neither this nor its possibly not being funny are relevant if it occurred as TM himself tells it. By his account, it was in the show and Ross, the producer, and everyone else was very happy with it. It was allegedly pulled much later when the ITV head of television heard about it.
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

22nd December 2011, 09:24 AM	#12
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,113	Originally Posted by Rat That's not what ITV said -- although I guess they wouldn't even if that were the reason. What did ITV say?

22nd December 2011, 09:27 AM	#13
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,568	Originally Posted by Matthew Best What did ITV say? Not much, so far. According to the BBC: Quote: ITV said the decision to cut the song would have been taken by senior executives in conjunction with Jonathan Ross's production company, Hot Sauce. It did not confirm Mr Fincham's involvement directly. But it is likely the broadcaster's director of television would have final approval of the programme, to be broadcast on 23 December. "We often make changes to programmes before transmission," ITV said in its statement.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

22nd December 2011, 09:28 AM	#14
Rat Not bored. Never bored. Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Leicester, UK Posts: 7,051	Not right for the tone of the show, apparently. http://www.chortle.co.uk/news/2011/1...christmas_song
	__________________ "Man muß den Menschen vor allem nach seinen Lastern beurteilen. Tugenden können vorgetäuscht sein. Laster sind echt." - Klaus Kinski UKLS 1988- Sitting on the fence throwing stones at both sides.

22nd December 2011, 09:30 AM	#15
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,113	As far as I can tell from various news sources, ITV say: it did not work “editorially”. it “didn’t feel right for the show" "didn't quite work editorially" was "not right tonally" Maybe if it had been funnier it would have been more in keeping with the tone of the show?

22nd December 2011, 09:32 AM	#16
JoeTheJuggler Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: St. Louis Posts: 26,728	Non-believers simply aren't supposed to say (or sing) "Jesus". Whether the song was funny or not, good satire or not, victimless or not, are all beside the point, IMO. ETA: I'm thinking of the Simpsons episode when Homer cries out, "Help me, Jeebus!" For whatever reason, that seems much more innocuous than if he'd cried out, "Help me, Jesus!"
	__________________ "That is a very graphic analogy which aids understanding wonderfully while being, strictly speaking, wrong in every possible way." —Ponder Stibbons Last edited by JoeTheJuggler; 22nd December 2011 at 09:34 AM.

22nd December 2011, 09:41 AM	#17
cwalner Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Deepest Darkest Indiana Posts: 5,694	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Maybe it was dropped because it's not very funny. I don't know, I kinda liked: Jesus died and rose from the dead Just like a movie with Simon Pegg. Although Minchin does need to turn in his Geek card for mis-attributing 'With great power comes great responsibility' to Superman
	__________________ Vecini - Inconceivable! Inigo - You keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

22nd December 2011, 09:45 AM	#18
Matthew Best Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Leicester Square, London Posts: 4,113	Originally Posted by JoeTheJuggler Whether the song was funny or not, good satire or not, victimless or not, are all beside the point, IMO. Well, they're not beside the point if you're trying to edit together a good programme. If it's not funny then you might not want to include it.

22nd December 2011, 09:58 AM	#19
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,646	i found it not very funny, but thanks to it being cut out of the programm it got far more attention than otherwise. its all over my Youtube start page
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

23rd December 2011, 02:26 AM	#20
Mojo Mostly harmless Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Nor Flanden Posts: 22,086	The Daily Wail has put two copies of the video in this story: Jonathan Ross show forced to pull comic's Jesus song in case it offends Christians Just in case any Christians want to be offended, I suppose (check out the url, btw).
	__________________ "You got to use your brain." - McKinley Morganfield "The poor mystic homeopaths feel like petted house-cats thrown at high flood on the breaking ice." - Leon Trotsky

23rd December 2011, 02:50 AM	#21
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,074	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Maybe if it had been funnier it would have been more in keeping with the tone of the show? That would have put it much futher out of line with anything Ross does...
brodski Tea-Time toad Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 15,074

23rd December 2011, 03:20 AM	#22
Captain_Swoop Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: North Yorkshire Posts: 3,915	Well, I have never found Minchin funny, and what's with the stupid hair and makeup? is it supposed to make him look 'efgy' or 'alternative'? Seems to me he has puffed up some nice publicity for himself 'look how I am being censored by 'The Man'. Ross himself is as funny as Botulism but he hasn't realised yet.

23rd December 2011, 03:43 AM	#23
Last of the Fraggles Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 3,355	Originally Posted by Matthew Best Well, they're not beside the point if you're trying to edit together a good programme. If it's not funny then you might not want to include it. Well, given that its not a comedy show I'm not sure if funny is the only criteria being used for whether it gets included or not. I don't find much of what Minchin does 'funny' to be honest, but it's usually quite clever and entertaining. As is this. This wasn't cut for reasons of not being very good, even if it was are you telling me that an additional 3 minutes of previously cut Tom Cruise or Downtown Abbey cast member chit-chat will be better?

23rd December 2011, 04:14 AM	#24
Tsukasa Buddha Other (please write in) Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: NeverLand Posts: 9,898	I, for one, already worship Minchin, so this song was nothing new. He really is quite honest about it here: Quote: So I got to writing. Being Christmas, I thought it would be fun to do a song about Jesus, but being TV, I knew it would have to be gentle. The idea was to compare him to Woody Allen (short, Jewish, philosophical, a bit hesitant), and expand into redefining his other alleged attributes using modern, popular-culture terminology. It’s not a particularly original idea, I admit, but it’s quite cute. It’s certainly not very contentious, but even so, compliance people and producers and lawyers all checked my lyrics long before the cameras rolled. As always with these bespoke writing jobs, I was really stressed for about 3 days, and almost chucked it in the bin 5 times, and freaked out that it wasn’t funny and all that boring ** that people like me go through when we’re lucky enough to have with a big audience with high expectations. And if I’m honest, it ain’t a world-changing bit of comedy. Regardless… ... Yesterday I wrote a big rant about comedy and risk and conservatism; about the fact that my joke has no victim; about sacredness (oh God, not again!) and about the importance of laughing at dumb but pervasive ideas. But I trashed it because it’s boring and takes it all too seriously. It’s hardly the end of the world. But I have to admit I’m really ***** disappointed. It’s 2011. The appropriate reaction to people who think Jesus is a supernatural being is mild embarrassment, sighing tolerance and patient education. Linky. Pretty much my take on the song and the controversy.
	__________________ As cultural anthropologists have always said "human culture" = "human nature". You might as well put a fish on the moon to test how it "swims naturally" without the "influence of water". -Earthborn

20th April 2012, 03:48 AM	#25
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,568	Not related to the TV show, but this looks like the most appropriate thread to bump. Tim Minchin is appearing on BBC Radio 4 Extra on Saturday night; this is a recording of a concert from 2008. The reason that it's worth mentioning is that you should be able to listen to this wherever you are, as the BBC doesn't restrict access to the radio programmes in the same way that they limit BBC iPlayer for TV. You may also be able to save a copy if you happened to use something like Radio Downloader.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232