The Top Ten Questions Homeopaths can't answer

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

At davefoc's suggestion, here is a handy edited list to wave in front any any homeopaths you meet.

1. Why do the effects of homeopathy, which are quite considerable when described anecdotally, dissapear when testing is performed under controlled conditions ?

2. What evidence do you have to support your assertion that "like cures like" is a natural law?

3. Exactly how does the solvent's "memory" of the active ingredient become selective, to somehow erase the intimate contact it has had with possibly millions of other compounds in its history and since the dilution process is supposed to dilute out the undesirable parts of the remedy's effects, and potentise the desirable parts, how does the remedy know which is which?

4. How is information stored in water? It's no good just saying that unexpected processes occur in solvents they must store energy and information in a completely faithful and stable manner?

5. How does the memory of water apply when the final remedy is dried onto a lactose pill?

6. How come you can prescribe for animals when you don't "prove" the remedies on animals?

7. Provings are demonstrably nonsense. In the vast majority no attention at all is paid to using controls. So it is vanishingly unlikely that many remedies in use today have the effects claimed for them in provings even if there was some validity behind the principles of homeopathy so that some remedies might truly work. So how come homeopaths using all the dodgy remedies claim success in using them? Doesn't the existence of this mass of defective remedies (even if we cannot identify them from a notional set of valid remedies) completely undermine the homeopaths' claims to make valid inferences from their much-vaunted 'clinical evidence'?

8. What can homeopathy not cure? How do these diseases differ absolutely from all the things they say it can cure. Can it cure genetic diseases?

9. What are the limits of homeopaths' credulity? Are there any alt med therapies they do not believe in? If there are really wild and weird things they do not believe in then please can they explain the rationale for making that distinction?

10. The Randi Challenge Special Question:

Is there any way to tell if a preparation is different from plain water or other solvent? Please do so and earn $1M (and no this is not a single dollar diluted homeopathically

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
At davefoc's suggestion, here is a handy edited list to wave in front any any homeopaths you meet.

1. Why do the effects of homeopathy, which are quite considerable when described anecdotally, dissapear when testing is performed under controlled conditions ?

To the awnser of first question refer my topic 'My new Question'

Q: We have to see that whether these(cosmic rays) are effecting us practically or not & if effecting, than is it practically a benificial or a damaging effect?

DaveW A: Yes, there can be an effect, but the likelihood of a measurable, noticable effect on the overall human body is so close to zero as to be indistinguishable.

However if we measure with long exposure, we may probably notice it. Homeopathic effect may be alike it.

What is E=mc2? can we convert mass in c2 or part of c2 by simple processes?

[CFLarsen]

Badly Shaved Monkey,

Excellent! Can I steal this for SkepticReport?

You can email me at webmaster@skepticreport.com for details.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Badly Shaved Monkey,

Excellent! Can I steal this for SkepticReport?

Most certainly!

[geni]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar


However if we measure with long exposure, we may probably notice it. Homeopathic effect may be alike it.

prove it. anyway thats not what homeopaths claim. they claim fairly quick results

Quote:

What is E=mc2? can we convert mass in c2 or part of c2 by simple processes? [/b]

E=mc² means energy = matter times the speed of light squared.

This means that if you convet say 2 kg of matter into energy you will end up with about 1.797*10¹⁷ jouls of energy

When you try this in practice the results tend to look like this

[CFLarsen]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
Most certainly!

You need to email me. You need to be credited.

[Yahweh]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
1. Why do the effects of homeopathy, which are quite considerable when described anecdotally, dissapear when testing is performed under controlled conditions ?

To keep you skeptics guessing.

Quote:

2. What evidence do you have to support your assertion that "like cures like" is a natural law?

To be honest, when I first heard of Homeopathy I though it was something a bit like vaccination. Something alont the lines of "One small dosage of sterilized flu virus will protect you from the flu, homeopathy sounds a lot like another form of vaccination"...

Woohoo, imagine my surprise when I read up on homeopathy...

Quote:

3. Exactly how does the solvent's "memory" of the active ingredient become selective, to somehow erase the intimate contact it has had with possibly millions of other compounds in its history and since the dilution process is supposed to dilute out the undesirable parts of the remedy's effects, and potentise the desirable parts, how does the remedy know which is which?

Mechanized automated gyroscopically involved channeling.

Quote:

4. How is information stored in water? It's no good just saying that unexpected processes occur in solvents they must store energy and information in a completely faithful and stable manner?

Its like pressing your hand into some wet cement. Your hand is no longer there, but its impression (which metaphorically represents "information") remains. See the MAGIC process above.

Quote:

5. How does the memory of water apply when the final remedy is dried onto a lactose pill?

How does Kraft Easy-Mac work? Just add water.

Quote:

6. How come you can prescribe for animals when you don't "prove" the remedies on animals?

"Anything for a buck" is what I always says...

Quote:

7. Provings are demonstrably nonsense. In the vast majority no attention at all is paid to using controls. So it is vanishingly unlikely that many remedies in use today have the effects claimed for them in provings even if there was some validity behind the principles of homeopathy so that some remedies might truly work. So how come homeopaths using all the dodgy remedies claim success in using them? Doesn't the existence of this mass of defective remedies (even if we cannot identify them from a notional set of valid remedies) completely undermine the homeopaths' claims to make valid inferences from their much-vaunted 'clinical evidence'?

[repeat ad nauseum]

10,000 medical doctors!!!!!1!1!!!!

[/repeat ad nauseum]

Quote:

8. What can homeopathy not cure? How do these diseases differ absolutely from all the things they say it can cure. Can it cure genetic diseases?

[speaking to their handicapped son, Jimmy]

"Jimmy, God made you that way because your father and I used to make fun of disabled people in highschool".

- Southpark

Quote:

9. What are the limits of homeopaths' credulity? Are there any alt med therapies they do not believe in? If there are really wild and weird things they do not believe in then please can they explain the rationale for making that distinction?

We homeopaths really really hate "mainstream medicine". Its success rate, its observable and demonstratable reliableness. WE'LL HAVE NONE OF THAT!

Oh, and our arch nemeses: The Allopaths. They are a bastardization of True Homeopathy™.

Quote:

10. The Randi Challenge Special Question:

Is there any way to tell if a preparation is different from plain water or other solvent? Please do so and earn $1M (and no this is not a single dollar diluted homeopathically

[Insert typical "I dont have to prove myself to no one", "no one can win that challenge", and obligatory "Mr. Randi is a stupidhead" rant here]

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni


prove it. anyway thats not what homeopaths claim. they claim fairly quick results


E=mc² means energy = matter times the speed of light squared.

This means that if you convet say 2 kg of matter into energy you will end up with about 1.797*10¹⁷ jouls of energy

When you try this in practice the results tend to look like this

geni thanks. May be, homeopaths using this c2 or part of it for fairly quick results.

[geni]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
1. Why do the effects of homeopathy, which are quite considerable when described anecdotally, dissapear when testing is performed under controlled conditions ?

Because of quantum effects. When you observe something you change it

Quote:

2. What evidence do you have to support your assertion that "like cures like" is a natural law?

Quantum physics says that two eletrons can cancle each other out to form an antibonding orbital.

Quote:

3. Exactly how does the solvent's "memory" of the active ingredient become selective, to somehow erase the intimate contact it has had with possibly millions of other compounds in its history and since the dilution process is supposed to dilute out the undesirable parts of the remedy's effects, and potentise the desirable parts, how does the remedy know which is which?

By quantum concioness

Quote:

4. How is information stored in water? It's no good just saying that unexpected processes occur in solvents they must store energy and information in a completely faithful and stable manner?

They are stored in quantum strings

Quote:

5. How does the memory of water apply when the final remedy is dried onto a lactose pill?

Quantum entanglement

Quote:

6. How come you can prescribe for animals when you don't "prove" the remedies on animals?

Anaimals have the same underling vital force as humans which is of course supported by the mulit-demitional nature of matter as predicted by quantum string theory

Quote:

7. Provings are demonstrably nonsense. In the vast majority no attention at all is paid to using controls. So it is vanishingly unlikely that many remedies in use today have the effects claimed for them in provings even if there was some validity behind the principles of homeopathy so that some remedies might truly work. So how come homeopaths using all the dodgy remedies claim success in using them? Doesn't the existence of this mass of defective remedies (even if we cannot identify them from a notional set of valid remedies) completely undermine the homeopaths' claims to make valid inferences from their much-vaunted 'clinical evidence'?

Thus you show you do not understand the quantum holistic nature of homeopathy

Quote:

8. What can homeopathy not cure? How do these diseases differ absolutely from all the things they say it can cure. Can it cure genetic diseases?

Homeopathy can cure everything not caused by allopathy (I can't work out how to get the word quantum into this one).

Quote:

9. What are the limits of homeopaths' credulity? Are there any alt med therapies they do not believe in? If there are really wild and weird things they do not believe in then please can they explain the rationale for making that distinction?

Anything that does not follow the strick hanneman protocols is not better than allopathy.

Quote:

10. The Randi Challenge Special Question:

Is there any way to tell if a preparation is different from plain water or other solvent? Please do so and earn $1M (and no this is not a single dollar diluted homeopathically

Randi's prize would interfear with the nature of the quantum fields.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni


Because of quantum effects. When you observe something you change it


Quantum physics says that two eletrons can cancle each other out to form an antibonding orbital.


By quantum concioness



They are stored in quantum strings




Quantum entanglement



Anaimals have the same underling vital force as humans which is of course supported by the mulit-demitional nature of matter as predicted by quantum string theory



Thus you show you do not understand the quantum holistic nature of homeopathy


Homeopathy can cure everything not caused by allopathy (I can't work out how to get the word quantum into this one).



Anything that does not follow the strick hanneman protocols is not better than allopathy.



Randi's prize would interfear with the nature of the quantum fields.

All is revealed. Geni is a closet homeopath. BURN HIM! BURN HIM!!

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
*2. What evidence do you have to support your assertion that "like cures like" is a natural law?

In rep.& meteria medica on tissue salts, propotion of these tissue salts/elements in them, seems to be directly in proportion to the nos of problems. Silicea is for "Maximum problems". Probably, problems are directly proportional to our direct exposure to differant substances which may make it " like cure likes".

[Ladewig]

I would also like to know what homeopaths who make the stuff do with the rest of the solution they are diluting. Wouldn't pouring it down the drain where it could enter the water supply be quite dangerous?

Also, if these remedies are so powerful that a few drops can cure, is it possible to overdose on a homeopathic solution?

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar
Probably, problems are directly proportional to our direct exposure to differant substances which may make it " like cure likes".

No it doesn't.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ladewig
I would also like to know what homeopaths who make the stuff do with the rest of the solution they are diluting. Wouldn't pouring it down the drain where it could enter the water supply be quite dangerous?

Also, if these remedies are so powerful that a few drops can cure, is it possible to overdose on a homeopathic solution?

Used as & for preparing lower potenties. You can't furhthur awaken to an already awakend peson/cells by the remedies. However, there is a law of minimum dose in homeopathy.

BSM, why it doesn't?

[Brian the Snail]

Quote:

Originally posted by Yahweh

[repeat ad nauseum]

10,000 medical doctors!!!!!1!1!!!!

[/repeat ad nauseum]

Strawman.

It is, of course, 100,000 medical doctors.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey

3. Exactly how does the solvent's "memory" of the active ingredient become selective, to somehow erase the intimate contact it has had with possibly millions of other compounds in its history and since the dilution process is supposed to dilute out the undesirable parts of the remedy's effects, and potentise the desirable parts, how does the remedy know which is which?

4. How is information stored in water? It's no good just saying that unexpected processes occur in solvents they must store energy and information in a completely faithful and stable manner?

5. How does the memory of water apply when the final remedy is dried onto a lactose pill?

6. How come you can prescribe for animals when you don't "prove" the remedies on animals?

7. Provings are demonstrably nonsense. In the vast majority no attention at all is paid to using controls. So it is vanishingly unlikely that many remedies in use today have the effects claimed for them in provings even if there was some validity behind the principles of homeopathy so that some remedies might truly work. So how come homeopaths using all the dodgy remedies claim success in using them? Doesn't the existence of this mass of defective remedies (even if we cannot identify them from a notional set of valid remedies) completely undermine the homeopaths' claims to make valid inferences from their much-vaunted 'clinical evidence'?

10. The Randi Challenge Special Question:

Is there any way to tell if a preparation is different from plain water or other solvent? Please do so and earn $1M (and no this is not a single dollar diluted homeopathically

Awnsers to Point nos 3 to 7 & 10 may relate to this logic.

[geni]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kumar


Awnsers to Point nos 3 to 7 & 10 may relate to this logic.

Well this chemistry student says that you are wrong.

[Pantastic]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ladewig
I would also like to know what homeopaths who make the stuff do with the rest of the solution they are diluting. Wouldn't pouring it down the drain where it could enter the water supply be quite dangerous?

I find this notion deeply disturbing. Imagine one careless homeopath losing a single drop of solution down the drain, it would be diluted in the water supply of the entire area! Imagine the potency of such a solution! Thousands could be poisoned!

And this also occurs to me. What if you spilled some homeopathic solution on the ground, and it evapourated and then came down later somewhere else as rain? If you got a single drop of that rain in your mouth you could be killed instantly!

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by geni


Well this chemistry student says that you are wrong.

OR geni
an Anti-homeopathy illuminati member says?

[Bottle or the Gun]

My question is why people and animals get sick at all.

Aren't there enough homepathic traces of whatever we may need in our immediate environment to continually cure us, maintain our health at desired levels?

Anybody?

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
My question is why people and animals get sick at all.

It's all a conspiracy by Big Pharma. Fool!

OR

It's all natural. Enjoy it. Your mind is too small to see this BIG Truth. (http://www.hpathy.com/forum/display_...PagePosition=1)

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

All the stuff in the environment wasn't succussed correctly. You gotta succuss!

Furthermore, even if you succuss, when you dump it down the drain, it becomes desuccussed.

~~ Paul

[Prester John]

I'd have put a question in about how they QC remedies, what testing they do to confirm the remedies contain what they say they do

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Prester John
I'd have put a question in about how they QC remedies, what testing they do to confirm the remedies contain what they say they do

With the godlike power of editor arrogated to myself I decided that, while this is very pertinent, it is subsumed under the Randi
Challenge Special Question. Because if they can QC it then they can win the money.

[Ladewig]

Quote:

Used as & for preparing lower potenties. You can't furhthur awaken to an already awakend peson/cells by the remedies. However, there is a law of minimum dose in homeopathy.

Well, that just brings up more questions.

13a. Why do cells "fall asleep" in the first place?

13b. When a homeopathic solution "wakes up" a cell, how long does this wakefulness last?

13c. Do cells ever "wake up" on their own?

13d. Can anything else (allopathic medicine, crystal energy, harmonic vibrations, meditation) "wake up" these cells?

14. If it is impossible to further wake up cells, why does the solution have to be "infinitly" diluted. Why can't a 2X solution relieve the symptoms just as well.

[Kumar]

Quote:

Originally posted by Bottle or the Gun
My question is why people and animals get sick at all.

Aren't there enough homepathic traces of whatever we may need in our immediate environment to continually cure us, maintain our health at desired levels?

Anybody?

It is intresting question & should be researched. In "My New Question" I asked for the effect of atmospheric particles on us but no one has replied. We may get some homeopathic effects from tree droplets, Morning, evening droplets. We may crave or repulse for environment/atmospheric substances( crave to go out or come back to home etc.) We may get something by taking bath in differant water sources. I asked previously somewhere that if we take bath or drink pure/ distilled water free from all mineral, what will be the effect? These particles may be having some role in the benefits of Morning/evening walks.

[Prester John]

For the hardcore Homeopaths:

If illnesses are not caused by bacteria and viruses, why have we got an immune system ?

[Kumar]

[quote]Originally posted by Ladewig


Well, that just brings up more questions.

13a. Why do cells "fall asleep" in the first place?

Just consider Insulin or other resistances. It is due to excess/physiological reason.

13b. When a homeopathic solution "wakes up" a cell, how long does this wakefulness last?

May be equal to the time uptill any remedy looks to be effective.

13c. Do cells ever "wake up" on their own?

Can be if any substance become in short suuply or due to any other stimulant. Consider fasting's, accupunture etc. logics.

13d. Can anything else (allopathic medicine, crystal energy, harmonic vibrations, meditation) "wake up" these cells?

Why not, it depends on type of any medication/treatment-- it can awaken & correct OR kill & treat?

14. If it is impossible to further wake up cells, why does the solution have to be "infinitly" diluted. Why can't a 2X solution relieve the symptoms just as well.

It may depend upon how deep their sleep is?

Eg; One can be awkened just by few water drops & other may need its full mug if not bucket.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

15. What do you do with your medical waste?

~~ Paul

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Just in case anyone was wondering about this thread it's still here and the homeopaths have still provided no answers.

Recently I posted the Ten Questions at Hpathy, which led them to delete the post and suspend my account, so I think we should take that as a pretty good indication that they really can't cope with them.

By the way some merry japester has registered at Hpathy as BadShavedMonkey and has posted very similarly to me. I suspect it may be one of their members doing it in the interests of satire, but this would imply an attempt at humour which is atypical of those po-faced self-aggrandisers. Would anyone here like to 'fess up to being the Bad monkey?

[Prester John]

If i can intecede on behalf of the homeopaths, i think you will find that all these questions have been adequatly answered already in this thread. Any attempt to get anactual answer will of course be trolling. If i had my way that would result in a rigged vote followed by banning of all who dare question the power of homeopathy.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Prester John
If i can intecede on behalf of the homeopaths, i think you will find that all these questions have been adequatly answered already in this thread. Any attempt to get anactual answer will of course be trolling. If i had my way that would result in a rigged vote followed by banning of all who dare question the power of homeopathy.

Wot? Are you some kind of a psychic?

Oh...it's just what they always do in the face of hard questions.

[bvw12]

why were people discussing E=mc^2 earlier in this thread? it didn't seem to have much to do with anything, except for wildly speculative jawboning.

as far as your question no. 1, see my other thread. try to figure it out.

[Prester John]

Nicely done Bach. One small problem tho', our glorious faculty of homeopathy has a journal that publishes loads of "scientific" papers showing homeopathys effectiveness. The bitchin part is that when done by reputable labs under better controlled circumstances the effects disapear. Maybe you think the faculty is wrong to try scientific method?
Then i suppose not being a homeopath yourself you don't really understand the field as well as myself. Keep up the good work tho'.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by bvw12
why were people discussing E=mc^2 earlier in this thread?

Because Kumar brought it up and he is on your side!

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Quote:

Originally posted by Prester John
Nicely done Bach. One small problem tho', our glorious faculty of homeopathy has a journal that publishes loads of "scientific" papers showing homeopathys effectiveness. The bitchin part is that when done by reputable labs under better controlled circumstances the effects disapear. Maybe you think the faculty is wrong to try scientific method?
Then i suppose not being a homeopath yourself you don't really understand the field as well as myself. Keep up the good work tho'.

PJ

As a homeopath, do you find there to be any authority that can remove your ability to prescribe to patients, if ,say, someone began to go blind with ocular haemorrhages, while you were fiddling away with your magic water?

I would hope that I could get your a*** struck off from some register so I don't have to go through the courts to prove that you led me to disaster. I hear homeopaths carry indemnity insurance, but that isn't going to stop you neglectfully damaging people is it?

[bvw12]

[quote]Originally posted by Prester John
[b]Nicely done Bach. why, thank you! mebbe i should go home right now! One small problem tho', our glorious faculty of homeopathy has a journal that publishes loads of "scientific" papers showing homeopathys effectiveness. The bitchin part is that when done by reputable labs under better controlled circumstances the effects disapear. Maybe you think the faculty is wrong to try scientific method?] ok, as long as you continue to ignore the fact that i support research - i'll rephrase the problem i tried to present to you: in the face of mountains of dbpc showing poorly for homeopathy, what are the two basic reasons that could explain these outcomes? the answer: homeopathy doesn't work or the dbpc's have been done poorly. of course, there's the possibility that your analysis of the society's research is inadequate, or that the results do not fit neatly in with your usual yes/no, right/wrong, works/doesn't work, black/white mindset. ok, so that's 4 things that might be going on here, not two, so shoot me. i know you'd love to.

aaaanyway, what could have gone wrong in all those 'well controlled studies' .... hummm, soooo tough to figure out. but munch on it, i've got another game coming up with tiger .... so i won't be around for awhile. Then i suppose not being a homeopath yourself you don't really understand the field as well as myself. Keep up the good work tho'. ]oh thanks, what a standard bearer and leading light you be .[/QUOTE

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by bvw12
now what could have gone wrong in all those 'well controlled studies' .... hummm, soooo tough to figure out. but munch on it.

OK, put us out of our misery. What was done wrong in all those well-conducted trials? And specifics, please, not inapplicable analogies.

And do try to use the quote facility on this forum properly - if you enclose your own text within the quote it won't appear in a subsequent quote without special manipulations. It's not that hard to close the quote, insert your own comments, then reopen it.

And don't add extra text to your posts ten minutes later without indicating it as such with an "Edited to add" flag or something similar.

Rolfe.

[bvw12]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rolfe
OK, put us out of our misery. What was done wrong in all those well-conducted trials? And specifics, please, not inapplicable analogies. THEY LACK CREDIBILITY. THEY FALL APART ON CLINICAL (AS COMPARED TO STATISTICAL) ANALYSIS. PLEASE SEE MY ANALYSIS OF SOME BELL RESEARCH, IN THE "WHY" THREAD OVER AT HPATHY, MAYBE 3-5 PAGES INTO THE THREAD, FOR AN EXAMPLE. THE ANALOGY, BTW, WAS QUITE APPLICABLE, AS IT ILLUSTRATED THE POINT, THOUGH CERTAINLY DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING, AS ANALOGIES NEVER DO.

And do try to use the quote facility on this forum properly I WON'T BE AROUND LONG ENOUGH TO BOTHER, OTHERWISE, YEH, THAT WOULD BE GOOD.- if you enclose your own text within the quote it won't appear in a subsequent quote without special manipulations. It's not that hard to close the quote, insert your own comments, then reopen it.

And don't add extra text to your posts ten minutes later without indicating it as such with an "Edited to add" flag or something similar.SORRY.

Rolfe.

[Rolfe]

Quote:

Originally posted by bvw12
THEY LACK CREDIBILITY. THEY FALL APART ON CLINICAL (AS COMPARED TO STATISTICAL) ANALYSIS. PLEASE SEE MY ANALYSIS OF SOME BELL RESEARCH, IN THE "WHY" THREAD OVER AT HPATHY, MAYBE 3-5 PAGES INTO THE THREAD, FOR AN EXAMPLE.

I read it. I thought it was complete nonsense. If you want anyone else to read it, the least you could do is to link to the page.

Over at H'pathy, all you get is sycophancy from people who understand things as little as you do yourself. When anyone with any real arguments against you comes along they get branded a troll, banned, and their posts deleted. So if you have any arguments worth making, that will stand up in a forum where debate is allowed and you can't ask for anyone who makes you look a fool to be banned, present them here.

If you can't be bothered to present your points here and debate them here, then it wasn't worth your while registering.

Rolfe.