Atheist Arrested in Indonesia.

Brainache · 31st January 2012, 04:15 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1219778.html

Quote:

After surviving an attack from an angry mob, an Indonesian atheist is facing jail time for posting the phrase "God doesn't exist" on his Facebook page.

The man, who is being identified only as Alexander, posted the message on the social networking site and was later reported to authorities by the Indonesian Council of Ulema, an Islamic religious authority, according to the Telegraph.

Alexander arrived for work at a government office Wednesday, where he was met and attacked by a mob of people upset by his beliefs.

He was arrested on Friday and charged with blasphemy against Islam, a crime punishable by up to five years in jail.

Any Indonesians here?

Or any Muslim who can explain why Allah needs the Council of Ulema to punish Atheists; is he too busy to do it himself?

Sledge · 31st January 2012, 04:23 PM

What an idiot.

ANTPogo · 31st January 2012, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1219778.html

Any Indonesians here?

Or any Muslim who can explain why Allah needs the Council of Ulema to punish Atheists; is he too busy to do it himself?

Allah doesn't need the Council of Ulema to punish atheists; he needs the government of Indonesia itself to do it. This guy was merely turned over to the authorities by the Council; the government itself is the one who is prosecuting him, under Indonesia's laws against blasphemy of any of the six official religions in that country: Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism.

devnull · 31st January 2012, 05:54 PM

I dont understand these laws at all.

So, blashemy of all 6 official religions is outlawed. Therefore, the same protection cant be afforded to atheism as it isnt a religion. However, buddhism has no deities (AFAIK) and I think the same is true for confucianism, so would make the claim that god doesnt exist, yet they are exempt?

Is the teaching of evolution considered blasphemous? What about when reality directly contradicts a religion? What about when a religion directly contradicts another?

What about when the catholics eat their deity - isnt that blashphemous to the protestants? Does nobody in the country eat cattle for fear of blaspheming against the hindus?

Or is all of this ok as long as you don't highlight the issue by quoting out of any of the various religious texts? If the texts are to be ignored, who then decides what is blasphemy?

These people are idiots. The positive side of all this is that the country will never become organised enough to pose any real threat.

Brainache · 31st January 2012, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by devnull

I dont understand these laws at all.

So, blashemy of all 6 official religions is outlawed. Therefore, the same protection cant be afforded to atheism as it isnt a religion. However, buddhism has no deities (AFAIK) and I think the same is true for confucianism, so would make the claim that god doesnt exist, yet they are exempt?

Is the teaching of evolution considered blasphemous? What about when reality directly contradicts a religion? What about when a religion directly contradicts another?

What about when the catholics eat their deity - isnt that blashphemous to the protestants? Does nobody in the country eat cattle for fear of blaspheming against the hindus?

Or is all of this ok as long as you don't highlight the issue by quoting out of any of the various religious texts? If the texts are to be ignored, who then decides what is blasphemy?

These people are idiots. The positive side of all this is that the country will never become organised enough to pose any real threat.

I also wonder if he would be in as much trouble if he professed an "Unoffical" Religion. Would a Satanist be arrested?

ANTPogo · 31st January 2012, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

I also wonder if he would be in as much trouble if he professed an "Unoffical" Religion. Would a Satanist be arrested?

Such a thing wouldn't be allowed. Under Indonesian law, you have to belong to one of the six official religions, and it gets listed on your government-issued ID card.

EDIT: I'm not actually sure how the laws would apply to a declared Buddhist saying there's no God or gods, though it's unfortunately not at all unusual for members of one religion, usually Muslim, to try and use the blasphemy laws as a club against members of even the other official religions. However, in this particular case, the man in question has "Islam" listed on his government ID card, and so when he says there's no God, no matter what he might actually mean it, will be taken as a denial of Allah, and therefore prosecuted as blasphemy accordingly.

Brainache · 31st January 2012, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Such a thing wouldn't be allowed. Under Indonesian law, you have to belong to one of the six official religions, and it gets listed on your government-issued ID card.

EDIT: I'm not actually sure how the laws would apply to a declared Buddhist saying there's no God or gods, though it's unfortunately not at all unusual for members of one religion, usually Muslim, to try and use the blasphemy laws as a club against members of even the other official religions. However, in this particular case, the man in question has "Islam" listed on his government ID card, and so when he says there's no God, no matter what he might actually mean it, will be taken as a denial of Allah, and therefore prosecuted as blasphemy accordingly.

OK. Thanks.

I heard a report on the radio about this case. It said that the guy has told authorities that he was wrong and he has converted back to Islam. I don't blame him, why be a martyr for Atheism?

But it does raise a question: Do the Authorities have to just accept his word that he now believes in God, or does he have to pass some kind of test?

If so, what kind of test could they use? Knowledge of holy texts is no guarantee of belief (just look at all the Atheist bible scholars around this place), so how could a Court decide such a question?

Foster Zygote · 31st January 2012, 06:24 PM

God doesn't exist!

crimresearch · 31st January 2012, 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

OK. Thanks.

I heard a report on the radio about this case. It said that the guy has told authorities that he was wrong and he has converted back to Islam. I don't blame him, why be a martyr for Atheism?

But it does raise a question: Do the Authorities have to just accept his word that he now believes in God, or does he have to pass some kind of test?

If so, what kind of test could they use? Knowledge of holy texts is no guarantee of belief (just look at all the Atheist bible scholars around this place), so how could a Court decide such a question?

Maybe they could borrow/modify some of the old Christian tests of faith. (But I suspect they already have their own).

Darth Rotor · 31st January 2012, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1219778.html

Any Indonesians here?

Or any Muslim who can explain why Allah needs the Council of Ulema to punish Atheists; is he too busy to do it himself?

Looks like Allah delegated that one.

Foster, you are probably in the clear so long as you don't head for Indonesia any time soon, and piss off those in the local population who get all hot and bothered over such things.

Craig4 · 31st January 2012, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

What an idiot.

It's either brave or stupid given the vast body of evidence indicating that there's a sizable minority of Muslims who cannot be trusted to act rationally.

crimresearch · 31st January 2012, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Looks like Allah delegated that one.

Foster, you are probably in the clear so long as you don't head for Indonesia any time soon, and piss off those in the local population who get all hot and bothered over such things.

I don't know, the inlay on that banjo is clearly spelling out a particularly dirty limerick with Mohammed as the butt of the joke.

Wolfman · 31st January 2012, 07:41 PM

ANTpogo explained it quite well. All Indonesian citizens must be registered as belonging to one of those six religions. Criticism of a religion other than the one listed on your ID will generally face less severe consequences than criticism or denial of the religion you are registered as. Likewise, since Islam predominates, criticism or denial of Islam will generally be more serious than similar attitudes towards other religions.

This guy did both. If he did it out of naivety, not thinking about or realizing what the result would be, I feel really sorry for him. If he did it intentionally, then the dude's got balls of steel...but he's gonna' have a rough ride ahead of him.

As a side note, changing religions in Indonesia is also very complicated; and converting to a religion other than one of the six official ones pretty much impossible. In addition, if you are registered as a Muslim, then you are also subject to Muslim law, which includes a provision that for a Muslim to convert to another religion is illegal (other religions don't have similar proscriptions), and an act of blasphemy in and of itself.

Pardalis · 1st February 2012, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

What an idiot.

Blaming the victim are we?

steve s · 1st February 2012, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Brainache

or does he have to pass some kind of test?

If so, what kind of test could they use?

Put on a bomb vest and blow himself up in a crowded market?

Steve S

mikeyx · 1st February 2012, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

God doesn't exist!

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Multivac · 2nd February 2012, 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by mikeyx

Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybe, but it's still the truth. God does not exist.

Humes fork · 2nd February 2012, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Such a thing wouldn't be allowed. Under Indonesian law, you have to belong to one of the six official religions, and it gets listed on your government-issued ID card.

What a stupid law.

McHrozni · 2nd February 2012, 02:44 AM

Originally Posted by Wolfman

As a side note, changing religions in Indonesia is also very complicated; and converting to a religion other than one of the six official ones pretty much impossible. In addition, if you are registered as a Muslim, then you are also subject to Muslim law, which includes a provision that for a Muslim to convert to another religion is illegal (other religions don't have similar proscriptions), and an act of blasphemy in and of itself.

It must indeed suck to be them.

McHrozni

DC · 2nd February 2012, 02:49 AM

they must have a very weak belief in Indonesia when they have to arrest people that think otherwise.

Humes fork · 2nd February 2012, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by DC

they must have a very weak belief in Indonesia when they have to arrest people that think otherwise.

Muhammad cannot have had strong beliefs in his claims, as he ordered execution of apostates from Islam.

Beerina · 2nd February 2012, 04:27 AM

Originally Posted by Sledge

What an idiot.

Why? God doesn't exist. How can the truth be illegal?

Unless...unless it threatens those in power.

ANTPogo · 2nd February 2012, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by Humes fork

Muhammad cannot have had strong beliefs in his claims, as he ordered execution of apostates from Islam.

We have no idea what Muhammad believed and did. All we know is what Muslims think he believed and did, and they don't always agree on what that was. Not even about the issue of apostasy.

Cainkane1 · 2nd February 2012, 04:59 AM

That guys braver than I am; either that or very stupid or suicidal.

Sledge · 2nd February 2012, 05:00 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

Blaming the victim are we?

Blaming the criminal.

Arcade22 · 2nd February 2012, 05:05 AM

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, dumbass.

Safe-Keeper · 2nd February 2012, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Blaming the victim are we?

Blaming the criminal.

Yeah, the world would be a better place without disrupting people like this. Who needs free speech/religion anyhow.
Like that idiot Rosa Park. Stop disrupting, already.

Sledge · 2nd February 2012, 11:20 AM

I'm sure that posting on Facebook is the best way to change the world. And I'm sure we all remember how Rosa Parks immediately backed down when faced with the legal consequences of her actions. The two cases are pretty much identical.

Toontown · 2nd February 2012, 05:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCTYxIsLThA

Doctor, my eyes have seen the years
And the slow parade of fears without crying
Now I want to understand
I have done all that I could
To see the evil and the good without hiding
You must help me if you can

Doctor my eyes
Tell me what is wrong
Was I unwise to leave them open for so long

I have wandered through this world
And as each moment has unfurled
I've been waiting to awaken from these dreams
People go just where they will
I never noticed them until I got this feeling
That it's later than it seems

Doctor my eyes
Tell me what you see
I hear their cries, just say if it's too late for me

Doctor my eyes
I cannot see the sky
Is this the price for having learned how not to cry...

Pardalis · 2nd February 2012, 11:28 PM

Originally Posted by Sledge

Blaming the criminal.

The guy is a criminal because he spoke his mind?

Originally Posted by Sledge

I'm sure that posting on Facebook is the best way to change the world.

And giving consent to totalitarianism on message boards will?

Quote:

The two cases are pretty much identical.

So according to you, Rosa Parks was an idiot and a criminal?

TheGoldcountry · 3rd February 2012, 01:08 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

So according to you, Rosa Parks was an idiot and a criminal?

What? I think your sarcasm meter needs a new dilliwog.

marplots · 3rd February 2012, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Brainache

But it does raise a question: Do the Authorities have to just accept his word that he now believes in God, or does he have to pass some kind of test?

If so, what kind of test could they use? Knowledge of holy texts is no guarantee of belief (just look at all the Atheist bible scholars around this place), so how could a Court decide such a question?

They have a really good test. You kill him and see if he goes to paradise.

Pardalis · 3rd February 2012, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry

What? I think your sarcasm meter needs a new dilliwog.

It's not sarcasm, it's exactly what he said.

Arcade22 · 3rd February 2012, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

The guy is a criminal because he spoke his mind?

Yes, the same thing that is criminalized in much of wonderful Europe, renowned for all its fabled FREEDOMS.

Mister Agenda · 3rd February 2012, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

It's not sarcasm, it's exactly what he said.

And we all know people only mean exactly what they say. That's why there's no such thing as sarcasm.

TheGoldcountry · 3rd February 2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

It's not sarcasm, it's exactly what he said.

No, I don't believe that he thinks this guy is just like Rosa Parks. He was being just a wee bit facetious.

Have you ever seen a Sledge post before?

CynicalSkeptic · 3rd February 2012, 07:54 AM

Originally Posted by Pardalis

The guy is a criminal because he spoke his mind?

In this case, yes.

Pardalis · 3rd February 2012, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by CynicalSkeptic

In this case, yes.

Do you think freedom of speech is a universal right or just good for the West?

Silly Green Monkey · 3rd February 2012, 12:53 PM

No right is universal. They're all given by humans, why should all humans be like you?

Pardalis · 3rd February 2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Silly Green Monkey

No right is universal. They're all given by humans, why should all humans be like you?

Is this sarcasm, or simply idiocy?

31st January 2012, 04:15 PM	#1
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Atheist Arrested in Indonesia. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1219778.html Quote: After surviving an attack from an angry mob, an Indonesian atheist is facing jail time for posting the phrase "God doesn't exist" on his Facebook page. The man, who is being identified only as Alexander, posted the message on the social networking site and was later reported to authorities by the Indonesian Council of Ulema, an Islamic religious authority, according to the Telegraph. Alexander arrived for work at a government office Wednesday, where he was met and attacked by a mob of people upset by his beliefs. He was arrested on Friday and charged with blasphemy against Islam, a crime punishable by up to five years in jail. Any Indonesians here? Or any Muslim who can explain why Allah needs the Council of Ulema to punish Atheists; is he too busy to do it himself?
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!! Last edited by Brainache; 31st January 2012 at 04:18 PM.

31st January 2012, 04:23 PM	#2
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	What an idiot.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

31st January 2012, 04:50 PM	#3
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,315	Originally Posted by Brainache http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1219778.html Any Indonesians here? Or any Muslim who can explain why Allah needs the Council of Ulema to punish Atheists; is he too busy to do it himself? Allah doesn't need the Council of Ulema to punish atheists; he needs the government of Indonesia itself to do it. This guy was merely turned over to the authorities by the Council; the government itself is the one who is prosecuting him, under Indonesia's laws against blasphemy of any of the six official religions in that country: Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Hinduism, Buddhism and Confucianism.
	__________________ "A nation can survive with kufr, but not with zulm." - ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib "No more hurting people" - Martin William Richard Currently Reading: Righteous Victims, by Benny Morris

31st January 2012, 05:54 PM	#4
devnull Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 4,532	I dont understand these laws at all. So, blashemy of all 6 official religions is outlawed. Therefore, the same protection cant be afforded to atheism as it isnt a religion. However, buddhism has no deities (AFAIK) and I think the same is true for confucianism, so would make the claim that god doesnt exist, yet they are exempt? Is the teaching of evolution considered blasphemous? What about when reality directly contradicts a religion? What about when a religion directly contradicts another? What about when the catholics eat their deity - isnt that blashphemous to the protestants? Does nobody in the country eat cattle for fear of blaspheming against the hindus? Or is all of this ok as long as you don't highlight the issue by quoting out of any of the various religious texts? If the texts are to be ignored, who then decides what is blasphemy? These people are idiots. The positive side of all this is that the country will never become organised enough to pose any real threat.
	__________________ no, i don't think i need to read naturalistic literature more accurately, to be convinced its true. - Gibhor

31st January 2012, 06:00 PM	#5
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Originally Posted by devnull I dont understand these laws at all. So, blashemy of all 6 official religions is outlawed. Therefore, the same protection cant be afforded to atheism as it isnt a religion. However, buddhism has no deities (AFAIK) and I think the same is true for confucianism, so would make the claim that god doesnt exist, yet they are exempt? Is the teaching of evolution considered blasphemous? What about when reality directly contradicts a religion? What about when a religion directly contradicts another? What about when the catholics eat their deity - isnt that blashphemous to the protestants? Does nobody in the country eat cattle for fear of blaspheming against the hindus? Or is all of this ok as long as you don't highlight the issue by quoting out of any of the various religious texts? If the texts are to be ignored, who then decides what is blasphemy? These people are idiots. The positive side of all this is that the country will never become organised enough to pose any real threat. I also wonder if he would be in as much trouble if he professed an "Unoffical" Religion. Would a Satanist be arrested?
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

31st January 2012, 06:09 PM	#6
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,315	Originally Posted by Brainache I also wonder if he would be in as much trouble if he professed an "Unoffical" Religion. Would a Satanist be arrested? Such a thing wouldn't be allowed. Under Indonesian law, you have to belong to one of the six official religions, and it gets listed on your government-issued ID card. EDIT: I'm not actually sure how the laws would apply to a declared Buddhist saying there's no God or gods, though it's unfortunately not at all unusual for members of one religion, usually Muslim, to try and use the blasphemy laws as a club against members of even the other official religions. However, in this particular case, the man in question has "Islam" listed on his government ID card, and so when he says there's no God, no matter what he might actually mean it, will be taken as a denial of Allah, and therefore prosecuted as blasphemy accordingly.
	__________________ "A nation can survive with kufr, but not with zulm." - ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib "No more hurting people" - Martin William Richard Currently Reading: Righteous Victims, by Benny Morris Last edited by ANTPogo; 31st January 2012 at 06:14 PM.

31st January 2012, 06:21 PM	#7
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Originally Posted by ANTPogo Such a thing wouldn't be allowed. Under Indonesian law, you have to belong to one of the six official religions, and it gets listed on your government-issued ID card. EDIT: I'm not actually sure how the laws would apply to a declared Buddhist saying there's no God or gods, though it's unfortunately not at all unusual for members of one religion, usually Muslim, to try and use the blasphemy laws as a club against members of even the other official religions. However, in this particular case, the man in question has "Islam" listed on his government ID card, and so when he says there's no God, no matter what he might actually mean it, will be taken as a denial of Allah, and therefore prosecuted as blasphemy accordingly. OK. Thanks. I heard a report on the radio about this case. It said that the guy has told authorities that he was wrong and he has converted back to Islam. I don't blame him, why be a martyr for Atheism? But it does raise a question: Do the Authorities have to just accept his word that he now believes in God, or does he have to pass some kind of test? If so, what kind of test could they use? Knowledge of holy texts is no guarantee of belief (just look at all the Atheist bible scholars around this place), so how could a Court decide such a question?
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

31st January 2012, 06:24 PM	#8
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,385	God doesn't exist!
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

31st January 2012, 06:54 PM	#9
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Brainache OK. Thanks. I heard a report on the radio about this case. It said that the guy has told authorities that he was wrong and he has converted back to Islam. I don't blame him, why be a martyr for Atheism? But it does raise a question: Do the Authorities have to just accept his word that he now believes in God, or does he have to pass some kind of test? If so, what kind of test could they use? Knowledge of holy texts is no guarantee of belief (just look at all the Atheist bible scholars around this place), so how could a Court decide such a question? Maybe they could borrow/modify some of the old Christian tests of faith. (But I suspect they already have their own).
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

31st January 2012, 07:28 PM	#10
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,248	Originally Posted by Brainache http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1219778.html Any Indonesians here? Or any Muslim who can explain why Allah needs the Council of Ulema to punish Atheists; is he too busy to do it himself? Looks like Allah delegated that one. Foster, you are probably in the clear so long as you don't head for Indonesia any time soon, and piss off those in the local population who get all hot and bothered over such things.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis Last edited by Darth Rotor; 31st January 2012 at 07:29 PM.

31st January 2012, 07:38 PM	#11
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363	Originally Posted by Sledge What an idiot. It's either brave or stupid given the vast body of evidence indicating that there's a sizable minority of Muslims who cannot be trusted to act rationally.
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363

31st January 2012, 07:38 PM	#12
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Looks like Allah delegated that one. Foster, you are probably in the clear so long as you don't head for Indonesia any time soon, and piss off those in the local population who get all hot and bothered over such things. I don't know, the inlay on that banjo is clearly spelling out a particularly dirty limerick with Mohammed as the butt of the joke.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

31st January 2012, 07:41 PM	#13
Wolfman Chief Solipsistic Autosycophant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Dongguan, China Posts: 11,809	ANTpogo explained it quite well. All Indonesian citizens must be registered as belonging to one of those six religions. Criticism of a religion other than the one listed on your ID will generally face less severe consequences than criticism or denial of the religion you are registered as. Likewise, since Islam predominates, criticism or denial of Islam will generally be more serious than similar attitudes towards other religions. This guy did both. If he did it out of naivety, not thinking about or realizing what the result would be, I feel really sorry for him. If he did it intentionally, then the dude's got balls of steel...but he's gonna' have a rough ride ahead of him. As a side note, changing religions in Indonesia is also very complicated; and converting to a religion other than one of the six official ones pretty much impossible. In addition, if you are registered as a Muslim, then you are also subject to Muslim law, which includes a provision that for a Muslim to convert to another religion is illegal (other religions don't have similar proscriptions), and an act of blasphemy in and of itself.
	__________________ The Meta-Solipsistic Autosycophant mantra: "I post, therefore I am nominated"

1st February 2012, 06:04 PM	#14
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by Sledge What an idiot. Blaming the victim are we?

1st February 2012, 06:18 PM	#15
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,657	Originally Posted by Brainache or does he have to pass some kind of test? If so, what kind of test could they use? Put on a bomb vest and blow himself up in a crowded market? Steve S
steve s Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3,657	__________________ "Nature abhors a moron." -- H. L. Mencken

1st February 2012, 07:10 PM	#16
mikeyx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,570	Originally Posted by Foster Zygote God doesn't exist! Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mikeyx Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,570

2nd February 2012, 12:25 AM	#17
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,931	Originally Posted by mikeyx Blasphemy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe, but it's still the truth. God does not exist.

2nd February 2012, 12:46 AM	#18
Humes fork Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by ANTPogo Such a thing wouldn't be allowed. Under Indonesian law, you have to belong to one of the six official religions, and it gets listed on your government-issued ID card. What a stupid law.
	__________________ "Faith is the surrender of the mind; it’s the surrender of reason, it’s the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It’s our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated." - Christopher Hitchens

2nd February 2012, 02:44 AM	#19
McHrozni Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,555	Originally Posted by Wolfman As a side note, changing religions in Indonesia is also very complicated; and converting to a religion other than one of the six official ones pretty much impossible. In addition, if you are registered as a Muslim, then you are also subject to Muslim law, which includes a provision that for a Muslim to convert to another religion is illegal (other religions don't have similar proscriptions), and an act of blasphemy in and of itself. It must indeed suck to be them. McHrozni
McHrozni Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 3,555

2nd February 2012, 02:49 AM	#20
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,647	they must have a very weak belief in Indonesia when they have to arrest people that think otherwise.
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

2nd February 2012, 03:19 AM	#21
Humes fork Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,350	Originally Posted by DC they must have a very weak belief in Indonesia when they have to arrest people that think otherwise. Muhammad cannot have had strong beliefs in his claims, as he ordered execution of apostates from Islam.
	__________________ "Faith is the surrender of the mind; it’s the surrender of reason, it’s the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It’s our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated." - Christopher Hitchens

2nd February 2012, 04:27 AM	#22
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Sledge What an idiot. Why? God doesn't exist. How can the truth be illegal? Unless...unless it threatens those in power.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

2nd February 2012, 04:51 AM	#23
ANTPogo Unique Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 9,315	Originally Posted by Humes fork Muhammad cannot have had strong beliefs in his claims, as he ordered execution of apostates from Islam. We have no idea what Muhammad believed and did. All we know is what Muslims think he believed and did, and they don't always agree on what that was. Not even about the issue of apostasy.
	__________________ "A nation can survive with kufr, but not with zulm." - ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib "No more hurting people" - Martin William Richard Currently Reading: Righteous Victims, by Benny Morris

2nd February 2012, 04:59 AM	#24
Cainkane1 Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The great American southeast Posts: 7,189	That guys braver than I am; either that or very stupid or suicidal.
	__________________ If at first you don't succeed try try again. Then if you fail to succeed to Hell with that. Try something else.

2nd February 2012, 05:00 AM	#25
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	Originally Posted by Pardalis Blaming the victim are we? Blaming the criminal.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain.

2nd February 2012, 05:05 AM	#26
Arcade22 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 1,823	Don't do the crime if you can't do the time, dumbass.
	__________________ The habit of the religious way of thinking has biased our mind so grievously that we are — terrified at ourselves in our nakedness and naturalness; it has degraded us so that we deem ourselves depraved by nature, born devils. Max Stirner

2nd February 2012, 08:18 AM	#27
Safe-Keeper Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sogndal, Norway Posts: 7,123	Quote: Quote: Blaming the victim are we? Blaming the criminal. Yeah, the world would be a better place without disrupting people like this. Who needs free speech/religion anyhow. Like that idiot Rosa Park. Stop disrupting, already.

2nd February 2012, 11:20 AM	#28
Sledge Grammaton Cleric Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Swingin' on a star Posts: 7,123	I'm sure that posting on Facebook is the best way to change the world. And I'm sure we all remember how Rosa Parks immediately backed down when faced with the legal consequences of her actions. The two cases are pretty much identical.
	__________________ "The perfect haiku would have just two syllables: Airwolf" ~ Ernest Cline "Science knows it doesn't know everything, otherwise it would stop" ~ Dara O'Briain. Last edited by Sledge; 2nd February 2012 at 11:24 AM.

2nd February 2012, 05:10 PM	#29
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,555	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCTYxIsLThA Doctor, my eyes have seen the years And the slow parade of fears without crying Now I want to understand I have done all that I could To see the evil and the good without hiding You must help me if you can Doctor my eyes Tell me what is wrong Was I unwise to leave them open for so long I have wandered through this world And as each moment has unfurled I've been waiting to awaken from these dreams People go just where they will I never noticed them until I got this feeling That it's later than it seems Doctor my eyes Tell me what you see I hear their cries, just say if it's too late for me Doctor my eyes I cannot see the sky Is this the price for having learned how not to cry...
Toontown Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 3,555	__________________ SEARCH NOW THE SPHERES PROBE THE UNIVERSE SEND BACK WORD WHAT FORCE SO IRRESISTIBLE AS THE WILL OF FREE MEN

2nd February 2012, 11:28 PM	#30
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by Sledge Blaming the criminal. The guy is a criminal because he spoke his mind? Originally Posted by Sledge I'm sure that posting on Facebook is the best way to change the world. And giving consent to totalitarianism on message boards will? Quote: The two cases are pretty much identical. So according to you, Rosa Parks was an idiot and a criminal?
	Last edited by Pardalis; 2nd February 2012 at 11:39 PM.

3rd February 2012, 01:08 AM	#31
TheGoldcountry Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1,530	Originally Posted by Pardalis So according to you, Rosa Parks was an idiot and a criminal? What? I think your sarcasm meter needs a new dilliwog.
	__________________ Not exactly, I'm talking about something I don't know about, if its there then it is what I am talking about and thats not nothing. -punshhh I have no idea what you're trying to say, but I'm still pretty sure that you're wrong. -Akhenaten

3rd February 2012, 03:17 AM	#32
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,367	Originally Posted by Brainache But it does raise a question: Do the Authorities have to just accept his word that he now believes in God, or does he have to pass some kind of test? If so, what kind of test could they use? Knowledge of holy texts is no guarantee of belief (just look at all the Atheist bible scholars around this place), so how could a Court decide such a question? They have a really good test. You kill him and see if he goes to paradise.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,367

3rd February 2012, 06:24 AM	#33
Pardalis Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montréal Posts: 25,831	Originally Posted by TheGoldcountry What? I think your sarcasm meter needs a new dilliwog. It's not sarcasm, it's exactly what he said.

3rd February 2012, 06:40 AM	#34
Arcade22 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Västerbotten, Sweden Posts: 1,823	Originally Posted by Pardalis The guy is a criminal because he spoke his mind? Yes, the same thing that is criminalized in much of wonderful Europe, renowned for all its fabled FREEDOMS.
	__________________ The habit of the religious way of thinking has biased our mind so grievously that we are — terrified at ourselves in our nakedness and naturalness; it has degraded us so that we deem ourselves depraved by nature, born devils. Max Stirner

3rd February 2012, 07:21 AM	#35
Mister Agenda Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Columbia, SC Posts: 2,619	Originally Posted by Pardalis It's not sarcasm, it's exactly what he said. And we all know people only mean exactly what they say. That's why there's no such thing as sarcasm.