"In quotes: Excerpts from Nato report on Taliban"

Humes fork · 3rd February 2012, 10:25 AM

From BBC:

Quote:

A secret Nato report seen by the BBC suggests the Taliban in Afghanistan are being directly helped by the Pakistani security service (ISI).

Here are excerpts from the report, based on interrogations of more than 4,000 captured Taliban, al-Qaeda, foreign fighters and civilians.

"Reflections from detainees indicate that Pakistan's manipulation of Taliban senior leadership continues unabatedly."

"In the last year there has been unprecedented interest, even from GIRoA [Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan] members, in joining the the insurgent cause. Afghan civilians frequently prefer Taliban governance over GIRoA, usually as a result of government corruption, ethnic bias and lack of connection with local religious and tribal leaders. The effectiveness of Taliban governance allows for increased recruitment rates which, subsequently, bolsters their ability to replace losses."

"ISI is thoroughly aware of Taliban activities and the whereabouts of all senior Taliban personnel. The Haqqani family, for example, resides immediately west of the ISI office at the airfield in Miram Shah, Pakistan."

CONTINUES

(Can also be found at The Economist.)

In other words, Pakistan is preparing to get their buddies back in power.

Thinking about it, why would the Taliban be willing to negotiate? NATO and ISAF are going to leave rather soon and then Afghanistan will be up for grabs. The Karzai government doesn't have much bargaining power.

Before 2001, the Taliban recieved extensive Pakistani support, both that many Taliban rank and file came from Pakistani madrassas and direct aid by the Pakistani army. Pakistan wants the Taliban to rule Afghanistan because they create order in the neighbourhood and will aid them against India in the fight over Kashmir.

I don't know how much the Pakistani generals and politicians and ISI agents and topshots buy into the Taliban's Islamist ideology on a personal level, but I guess they are happy as long as the Taliban do their bidding.

Darth Rotor · 3rd February 2012, 03:59 PM

It's not like this surprises anyone who's been following that region of the world for the past 10 years ... which makes me wonder why such a report is classified "NATO SECRET," as that classification only means that Greeks will leak it over a cup of coffee, the rest require few drinks ... and the Norwegians a case of something.

KwamiFabu · 4th February 2012, 04:32 PM

Business as usual, US troops come home, Obama re-elected, everybody happy?

geni · 4th February 2012, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

It's not like this surprises anyone who's been following that region of the world for the past 10 years ... which makes me wonder why such a report is classified "NATO SECRET," as that classification only means that Greeks will leak it over a cup of coffee, the rest require few drinks ... and the Norwegians a case of something.

Because the CIA is forbidden by law from trying to get it published in US papers and dumping on on the whole of NATO means that MI6 gets plausable deniability.

Gazpacho · 4th February 2012, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Humes fork

In other words, Pakistan is preparing to get their buddies back in power.

Pakistan is preparing for the return of the Taliban to power with or without its help. The image of the Taliban as a mere Pakistani puppet army has been an exaggeration from day 1. Instead it is the political credibility of the Taliban within Afghanistan that obliges Pakistan to deal with them.

Sad to think of Kabul being shelled to smithereens yet again.

Darth Rotor · 4th February 2012, 07:27 PM

Originally Posted by Gazpacho

Pakistan is preparing for the return of the Taliban to power with or without its help. The image of the Taliban as a mere Pakistani puppet army has been an exaggeration from day 1. Instead it is the political credibility of the Taliban within Afghanistan that obliges Pakistan to deal with them.

Sad to think of Kabul being shelled to smithereens yet again.

Not to me.

Let 'em play.

They seem to enjoy it, whether we are there or not. Maybe we should stop interfering.

Gazpacho · 4th February 2012, 07:32 PM

Yeah, I mean it's not like Afghans are people with aspirations or anything.

Darth Rotor · 4th February 2012, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Gazpacho

Yeah, I mean it's not like Afghans are people with aspirations or anything.

Ivory tower much? You might want to do a little research, and see how the Afghani people handled the expulsion of the Soviets.

Try to remember something: Taliban are Afghanis too (at least most of them are).

Do you not care for THEIR aspirations, or are you selective in your caring?

Gazpacho · 4th February 2012, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Darth Rotor

Ivory tower much? You might want to do a little research, and see how the Afghani people handled the expulsion of the Soviets.

Do tell me what sources will convince me that Kabul deserves to be destroyed.

Darth Rotor · 4th February 2012, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Gazpacho

Do tell me what sources will convince me that Kabul deserves to be destroyed.

Funny, I didn't say that, but you did.

Run along now, your silliness isn't getting any better.

Humes fork · 5th February 2012, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by Gazpacho

Pakistan is preparing for the return of the Taliban to power with or without its help. The image of the Taliban as a mere Pakistani puppet army has been an exaggeration from day 1. Instead it is the political credibility of the Taliban within Afghanistan that obliges Pakistan to deal with them.

Sad to think of Kabul being shelled to smithereens yet again.

Maybe so, but it's pretty hard to deny that much of the Taliban's success pre-2001 was due to Pakistani support. That was a reason why they lost so quickly in 2001. Many commanders had simply been bribed over by ISI and were perfectly happy to switch sides when they saw who was winning.

3rd February 2012, 10:25 AM	#1
Humes fork Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,342	"In quotes: Excerpts from Nato report on Taliban" From BBC: Quote: A secret Nato report seen by the BBC suggests the Taliban in Afghanistan are being directly helped by the Pakistani security service (ISI). Here are excerpts from the report, based on interrogations of more than 4,000 captured Taliban, al-Qaeda, foreign fighters and civilians. "Reflections from detainees indicate that Pakistan's manipulation of Taliban senior leadership continues unabatedly." "In the last year there has been unprecedented interest, even from GIRoA [Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan] members, in joining the the insurgent cause. Afghan civilians frequently prefer Taliban governance over GIRoA, usually as a result of government corruption, ethnic bias and lack of connection with local religious and tribal leaders. The effectiveness of Taliban governance allows for increased recruitment rates which, subsequently, bolsters their ability to replace losses." "ISI is thoroughly aware of Taliban activities and the whereabouts of all senior Taliban personnel. The Haqqani family, for example, resides immediately west of the ISI office at the airfield in Miram Shah, Pakistan." CONTINUES (Can also be found at The Economist.) In other words, Pakistan is preparing to get their buddies back in power. Thinking about it, why would the Taliban be willing to negotiate? NATO and ISAF are going to leave rather soon and then Afghanistan will be up for grabs. The Karzai government doesn't have much bargaining power. Before 2001, the Taliban recieved extensive Pakistani support, both that many Taliban rank and file came from Pakistani madrassas and direct aid by the Pakistani army. Pakistan wants the Taliban to rule Afghanistan because they create order in the neighbourhood and will aid them against India in the fight over Kashmir. I don't know how much the Pakistani generals and politicians and ISI agents and topshots buy into the Taliban's Islamist ideology on a personal level, but I guess they are happy as long as the Taliban do their bidding.
	__________________ "Faith is the surrender of the mind; it’s the surrender of reason, it’s the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It’s our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated." - Christopher Hitchens

3rd February 2012, 03:59 PM	#2
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,225	It's not like this surprises anyone who's been following that region of the world for the past 10 years ... which makes me wonder why such a report is classified "NATO SECRET," as that classification only means that Greeks will leak it over a cup of coffee, the rest require few drinks ... and the Norwegians a case of something.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

4th February 2012, 04:32 PM	#3
KwamiFabu Scholar Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 102	Business as usual, US troops come home, Obama re-elected, everybody happy?
KwamiFabu Scholar Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 102

4th February 2012, 07:24 PM	#5
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by Humes fork In other words, Pakistan is preparing to get their buddies back in power. Pakistan is preparing for the return of the Taliban to power with or without its help. The image of the Taliban as a mere Pakistani puppet army has been an exaggeration from day 1. Instead it is the political credibility of the Taliban within Afghanistan that obliges Pakistan to deal with them. Sad to think of Kabul being shelled to smithereens yet again.
	__________________ _{Google search help}

4th February 2012, 07:27 PM	#6
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,225	Originally Posted by Gazpacho Pakistan is preparing for the return of the Taliban to power with or without its help. The image of the Taliban as a mere Pakistani puppet army has been an exaggeration from day 1. Instead it is the political credibility of the Taliban within Afghanistan that obliges Pakistan to deal with them. Sad to think of Kabul being shelled to smithereens yet again. Not to me. Let 'em play. They seem to enjoy it, whether we are there or not. Maybe we should stop interfering.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

4th February 2012, 04:43 PM	#4
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,555	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor It's not like this surprises anyone who's been following that region of the world for the past 10 years ... which makes me wonder why such a report is classified "NATO SECRET," as that classification only means that Greeks will leak it over a cup of coffee, the rest require few drinks ... and the Norwegians a case of something. Because the CIA is forbidden by law from trying to get it published in US papers and dumping on on the whole of NATO means that MI6 gets plausable deniability.

4th February 2012, 07:32 PM	#7
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Yeah, I mean it's not like Afghans are people with aspirations or anything.
	__________________ _{Google search help}

4th February 2012, 07:35 PM	#8
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,225	Originally Posted by Gazpacho Yeah, I mean it's not like Afghans are people with aspirations or anything. Ivory tower much? You might want to do a little research, and see how the Afghani people handled the expulsion of the Soviets. Try to remember something: Taliban are Afghanis too (at least most of them are). Do you not care for THEIR aspirations, or are you selective in your caring?
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

4th February 2012, 07:45 PM	#9
Gazpacho Master Poster Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Valley Lodge, USA Posts: 2,136	Originally Posted by Darth Rotor Ivory tower much? You might want to do a little research, and see how the Afghani people handled the expulsion of the Soviets. Do tell me what sources will convince me that Kabul deserves to be destroyed.
	__________________ _{Google search help}

4th February 2012, 08:43 PM	#10
Darth Rotor Salted Sith Cynic Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Rat cheer Posts: 34,225	Originally Posted by Gazpacho Do tell me what sources will convince me that Kabul deserves to be destroyed. Funny, I didn't say that, but you did. Run along now, your silliness isn't getting any better.
	__________________ Helicopters don't so much fly as beat the air into submission. "Jesus wept, but did He laugh?"--F.H. Buckley____"There is one thing that was too great for God to show us when He walked upon our earth ... His mirth." --Chesterton__"If the barbarian in us is excised, so is our humanity."--D'rok__ "I only use my gun whenever kindness fails."-- Robert Earl Keen__"Sturgeon spares none.". -- The Marquis

5th February 2012, 08:50 AM	#11
Humes fork Master Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sweden Posts: 2,342	Originally Posted by Gazpacho Pakistan is preparing for the return of the Taliban to power with or without its help. The image of the Taliban as a mere Pakistani puppet army has been an exaggeration from day 1. Instead it is the political credibility of the Taliban within Afghanistan that obliges Pakistan to deal with them. Sad to think of Kabul being shelled to smithereens yet again. Maybe so, but it's pretty hard to deny that much of the Taliban's success pre-2001 was due to Pakistani support. That was a reason why they lost so quickly in 2001. Many commanders had simply been bribed over by ISI and were perfectly happy to switch sides when they saw who was winning.
	__________________ "Faith is the surrender of the mind; it’s the surrender of reason, it’s the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals. It’s our need to believe, and to surrender our skepticism and our reason, our yearning to discard that and put all our trust or faith in someone or something, that is the sinister thing to me. Of all the supposed virtues, faith must be the most overrated." - Christopher Hitchens