Syria and UN Security Council Decision

[bigjelmapro]

Russia has to make up for the billions lost in contracts with al-Assad and Gaddafi. Germany is still the EU's largest exporter of goods to Syria, fyi, but not weaponry. That's Russia's title, or at least what they are striving to retain.

[Moss]

I wish German companies would stay out of deals with governments (and their proxy companies) with flaky human rights records.

[Childlike Empress]

Me too. No tanks to Saudi Arabia, no submarines to Israel. And also no weapons to any party in Syria although I don't think we deliver any. Actually, no weapon exports at all would be best.

Deutsche Waffen, Deutsches Geld, morden mit in aller Welt.

[Childlike Empress]

btw, while it looked for a while that Annan's mission would be sabotaged by the unwillingness of the SNC puppet opposition to cooperate, we have a new, unilateral UN Security Council resolution now, and International Observers are already on their way to Syria. This is very positive and important, I think, and Lavrov takes the credit for pressuring a timely decision.

[bigjelmapro]

"unilateral UN Security Council resolution" sounds like an oxymoron.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

btw, while it looked for a while that Annan's mission would be sabotaged by the unwillingness of the SNC puppet opposition to cooperate, we have a new, unilateral UN Security Council resolution now, and International Observers are already on their way to Syria. This is very positive and important, I think, and Lavrov takes the credit for pressuring a timely decision.

Do you admit the Assad regime committed crimes against humanity?

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

btw, while it looked for a while that Annan's mission would be sabotaged by the unwillingness of the SNC puppet opposition to cooperate, we have a new, unilateral UN Security Council resolution now, and International Observers are already on their way to Syria. This is very positive and important, I think, and Lavrov takes the credit for pressuring a timely decision.

Utter nonsense.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro

"unilateral UN Security Council resolution" sounds like an oxymoron.

Oops, did I write that? "unanimous", I meant.

[Childlike Empress]

Interesting new short documentary which takes a look at the different diplomatic approaches of "the West" and "the Rest™" in the Syria issue, done by the Paris-based Centre for the Study of Interventionism. Critical study, that is.

Syria: Intervention or Mediation?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Virus]

I'm sure it's awesome. Just like all the other garbage you endorse.

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Interesting new short documentary which takes a look at the different diplomatic approaches of "the West" and "the Rest™" in the Syria issue, done by the Paris-based Centre for the Study of Interventionism. Critical study, that is.

Syria: Intervention or Mediation?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

More hilarious crap from the Assad propaganda machine.

[Virus]

Thuggish regimes and gangster states are big believers in non-intervention. Against them.

[DC]

[dudalb]

It's pretty apparent that to some people any crime or Atrocity is ok as long as you are Anti American, Anti Western, and Anti Zionists.

[Childlike Empress]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

'Another Russian Chartered, German Ship Intercepted Delivering Weapons To Syria'

It's still not clear what's with that ship which is still sailing. It's Ukrainian-chartered, the load doesn't come from Iran but from India, and apparently it was neither intercepted nor carries weapons, at least not heavy weapons for Syria. Seems like someone used SPIEGEL, who broke the story informed by alleged defectors in Syria, for FUD.

Cargo on German Freighter Remains a Mystery

Originally Posted by SPIEGEL

"The ship owner was requested not to call at Syrian ports," Bockstiegel Reederei's statement read. "Otherwise, the vessel would be attacked and sunk." The company said the email had been sent by an organization identifying itself as the "Syrian Revolution Naval Forces."

[Childlike Empress]

Mystery Surrounding 'Atlantic Cruiser' Ends

Originally Posted by SPIEGEL

Contrary to initial reports, it has emerged that the German freighter ship Atlantic Cruiser is not carrying weapons or munitions intended for the Syrian regime. After an inspection of the cargo that lasted several days in the Turkish port of Iskenderun, German government officials reported on Tuesday afternoon that customs officials in Turkey have determined that the ship, which is owned by Germany's Reederei Bockstiegel shipping company, had not been carrying any illegal cargo.

From "russian-charted German ship carrying Iranian weapons for Syria intercepted" to "ukrainian-chartered German ship carrying Indian thermal power plant parts for Syria threatened" ... poor SPIEGEL, it was such a juicy story.

[bigjelmapro]

Key word 'suspected'. AFP, Spiegel, Al-Arabiya, Al-Jazeera to name a few all mentioned 'suspected'. You, however, omitted it. Not surprisingly though.

I find it quite peculiar that you seem to jump full force on a case of poor intel, the only one I know of where poor intel was the result, but are completely *crickets* when all the other times raids do result in weapons caches being found.

To name a few:

Victoria Affair

Quote:

6 C-704 anti-ship missiles
230 mortar shells, caliber 120mm
2,270 mortar shells, caliber 60 mm
2 radar systems manufactured in England
2 rocket launchers
2 hydraulic mounting cranes for the radar system
66,960 7.62x39 rounds (Commonly used in the AK-47).

MV Francop

Quote:

9,000 mortar shells, 2,125 107-mm Katyusha rockets, 685 rocket fuses, 690 122-mm rockets, 21,100 F-1 fragmentation hand grenades, and 566,220 AK-47 rounds. The Israeli military said that the shipment was equivalent to about ten percent of Hezbollah's stocks.

Karine A Affair

So not a problem? Guess it'll just be more of the same *crickets* from you until maybe 2016 when there's another boarding of a suspected vessel carrying arms that doesn't result in much?

Big conspiracy.

[Childlike Empress]

What I find peculiar is that you angrily jump with unrelated nonsense on a simple follow-up to misinformation posted in this thread.

NOTHING TO SEE HERE!!!!!!

[bigjelmapro]

Post another slew of articles to deflect from answering the previous posts, why don't you CE. Rinse repeat.

Jump up and down and yell in frustration and not see how Iranian weapons shipments between Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, and Gaza as somehow not related to this issue when its the same bloody thing 'Unrelated nonsense'. Good one.

http://static.artfire.com/admin/prod...humb_large.jpg

Edited by Locknar:

Edited, breach of rule 5.

[Virus]

Assad regime's comical attempt at faking terrorist attacks:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

We've seen these sort of feeble theatricals from the Palestinians and Hezbollah. The "dead bodies" that move and get up and walk around when they think the camera's not on them. The phony acting and histrionics. The scripted hysterics from supposedly random onlookers. Comically pathetic? Yes. But these are the people who used "12345" as the password on the government's top secret email accounts.

[JihadJane]

There's a lot of it about:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

[Virus]

Saddam did actually invade Kuwait though.

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by Virus

Saddam did actually invade Kuwait though.

Not sure what this means. Perhaps it is a joke. Are you saying that there are no terrorists operating against the Assad regime?

[Virus]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Not sure what this means. Perhaps it is a joke. Are you saying that there are no terrorists operating against the Assad regime?

I'm saying there are some terrorists there, mostly the ones the regime has been backing for ages, and that this is a transparent attempt to dupe people into believing the popular movement to overthrow the Assad regime are all jihadis.

I guess it worked on some people. The ones who can't resist the lie, no matter how clumsy the delivery.

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by Virus

I'm saying there are some terrorists there, mostly the ones the regime has been backing for ages, and that this is a transparent attempt to dupe people into believing the popular movement to overthrow the Assad regime are all jihadis.

Please provide some evidence that the Asssad regime has claimed this.

Please provide evidence that terrorist violence in Syria (e.g. car bombings) is part of the popular movement to overthrow the Assad regime.

Quote:

I guess it worked on some people. The ones who can't resist the lie, no matter how clumsy the delivery.

Are you saying there aren't a significant number of "jihadis" attacking the regime?

Why should terrorists that the regime has been backing for ages now want to overthrow the Assad regime? Please name the organizations you are referring to.

What have you got against terrorists, anyway, when you have no problem with might is right, the strong dominating the weak or any other form of political violence?

[bigjelmapro]

Hamas has stopped supporting Assad and has moved their office from Damascus. Iran has cut down its financial support of Hamas, albeit, not cut off entirely. This change by Hamas has been most probably been spurred on by the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood ascension in Egypt, of which Hamas is an offshoot of, gaining a majority in parliament there in addition, but secondarily, to the anti-Assad forces being mostly composed of Sunni Muslims.

Haniyeh visited Iran the previous month before making the statement of public support for the anti-Assad forces (Feb 2012). But as of yet, there has been no word as to what this visit was about, albeit, a request for continued financial and material support was assumed to be at the center.

In Break, Hamas Supports Syrian Opposition

On a sidenote, who is to say that these car bombings are not done by the Assad regime in the first place? Got any evidence for who is responsible here?

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Please provide some evidence that the Asssad regime has claimed this.

Please provide evidence that terrorist violence in Syria (e.g. car bombings) is part of the popular movement to overthrow the Assad regime.



Are you saying there aren't a significant number of "jihadis" attacking the regime?

Why should terrorists that the regime has been backing for ages now want to overthrow the Assad regime? Please name the organizations you are referring to.

What have you got against terrorists, anyway, when you have no problem with might is right, the strong dominating the weak or any other form of political violence?

The Nazi-left is now wrapping itself up in the anti-terrorist flag?

What an interesting turn of events.

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by bigjelmapro

On a sidenote, who is to say that these car bombings are not done by the Assad regime in the first place? Got any evidence for who is responsible here?

You may not have gotten the memo:

A. If a terrorist attack occurs against the US or some other Western Imperialist Superduper evil nation, it is to be considered an inside job.

B. If a terrorist attack occurs against an heroic anti-imperialist freedom-fighting nation, it is to be considered exactly whatever the heroic regime claims it is.

Hope this helps.

[Virus]

JihadJane's just mad because the tyrant she supports got sprung making ridiculous fake terrorist bombing videos for the state-owned media.

[Virus]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Why should terrorists that the regime has been backing for ages now want to overthrow the Assad regime?

They smell weakness and nobody sides with a loser.

Except the Nazi left who cling to dictators even as they're cowering in holes dressed in filthy rags.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by JihadJane

What have you got against terrorists, anyway, when you have no problem with might is right, the strong dominating the weak or any other form of political violence?

What exactly are your guiding principles of right and wrong?

[Darth Rotor]

Mycroft, you assume an answer within your question.

Skeptic much?

[trustbutverify]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

What exactly are your guiding principles of right and wrong?

Please don't make me laugh when I'm eating.

[JihadJane]

Originally Posted by Virus

JihadJane's just mad because the tyrant she supports got sprung making ridiculous fake terrorist bombing videos for the state-owned media.

As often happens when crude attempts at character assassination and pretend mind-reading are substituted for considered, empirical investigation, your self-serving fantasy is mistaken.

I also notice that you have yet to provide any evidence in support of your previous assertions

Originally Posted by Virus

They smell weakness and nobody sides with a loser.

Name them.

Originally Posted by Mycroft

What exactly are your guiding principles of right and wrong?

The same as yours, probably. Why do you ask?

(Start separate thread if you want to talk about me rather than Syria.)

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

'The West's Greatest Fear

Western attempts to destroy Syria have not been going to plan, revealing that what the West fears most is a peaceful resolution to the crisis'

***The strategy was simple, clear, tried and tested. It had been used successfully not only against Libya, but also Kosovo (in 1999), and was rapidly underway in Syria. It was to run as follows: train proxies to launch armed provocations; label the state's response to these provocations as genocide; intimidate the UN Security Council into agreeing that "something must be done"; incinerate the army and any other resistance with fragmentation bombs and Hellfire missiles; and finally install a weak, compliant government to sign off new contracts and alliances drawn up in London, Paris and Washington, whilst the country tore itself apart.

Result: the heart torn out of the "axis of resistance" between Iran, Syria and Hizbullah, leaving Iran isolated and the West with a free hand to attack Iran without fear of regional repercussions.

This was to be Syria's fate, drawn up years ago in the high- level planning committees of US, British and French defence departments and intelligence services. But this time, unlike in Libya, it has not all gone according to plan.***

[Virus]

Jane most people with half a clue know that Assad is the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the Arab world. Do you know that or not?

[Laeke]

Pierre Piccinin is a belgian politologue that was holding a moderate view on Syria up until now, you can judge for yourselves with his own website and his interview with Russia Today, for instance (9th May of this year). It should be noted though that he seems to he was trying to be even-handed in his criticism, saying that the Baatist regime had some responsability in the media distortion. I'm sure some here will go to the conclusion that he was an out and out Assad apologist, hiding his hand behind a veil of sophisticated language, it may be true but it is not my point*.

Piccinin was arrested a few days ago in Syria, apparently on the ground of being a french spy. He was just liberated, after transiting from a Homs prison to Damas.
He went on to the RTBF, the main public broadcast in Belgium, to describe what he saw...
Syrian prison is "hell on earth", there was "widespread, non stop torture" using electricity, the detainees "screamed all night". "I was wrong" about the extent of the uprising, he says, and is now advocating an humanitarian intervention.
You can read and hear (in french though....) his testimony here (La Libre Belgique article) and here (RTBF interview).

The testimony may be up to examination, but the change of mind is pretty significant, me thinks...

EDIT: To be expected, there's already people to find fault with his testimony, "alterinfo.net" for instance...
Obviously the only possible explanation was that he was a COINTELPRO agent all along

* The accusation has been certainly risen against him.

[Childlike Empress]

As diplomatic tensions are running high again about the Syria stand-off and the shut-down of a Turkish fighter plane, the thread about the Houla massacre is getting drawn into the dreaded "big picture" for which it was not started.

So *bump*

[Childlike Empress]

Dragged from the other thread, mentioned PDF from a Clinton speech at the Brookings Institution mid-June, in which she made the remarks about Russian helicopters on the way to Syria which caused some diplomatic stir, here.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

[...] i'll post what Clinton said two paragraphs later in the PDF bigjelmapro posted:

Originally Posted by Hillary Clinton

So how we manage a political transition, assuming we could manage a political transition; how we provide reassurance and some level of protection to Christians, Druze, Alawites, Kurds, Sunni business leaders and the like; how we prevent a massive inflow of refugees across the Jordanian and Turkish borders; how we protect Lebanon from getting caught up in the sectarian divides that afflict them as well as Syria – if these questions had self-apparent and actualizing answers, I would certainly share them with you. But as things stand, this is our constant, painful analysis as to how we can push the Assad regime out – there’s no doubt it needs to go – but create a transition that gives at least some possible reassurance to those who fear what comes next.

So I think with that, I’ll end.

Regime change at any cost, no matter how detrimental the consequences are and no matter how obvious it is that we have no plan what to do about the predictable chaos caused by our actions. We'll just tell the complainers that all will turn out well, maybe they'll throw some flowers at us.

Too strongly worded?

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

[...] You seem to have a lot of difficulty parsing Mrs. Clinton's statements. First you somehow read "there are attack helicopters on the way from Russia to Syria" as "Clinton claimed that Russia is delivering new helicopters to Syria".

Now you're reading Clinton's statement that Assad needs to go, but in a way that ensures as much as possible that there is no chaos and uncertainty in the aftermath (something that she says has no easy or straightforward solution), as her actually saying "Assad must be removed at any cost, chaos and uncertainty and consequences be damned!"

That's exactly what she said - we know "we pushing out" Assad will cause a lot of trouble and have no idea what to do about it, but he has to go. After Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya ... I find that revolting.

[DC]

ah you forgot to quote the part where you claimed Clinton said new helicopters.

[Childlike Empress]

Good catch Diktatorchen, bad on me that I provided the links to the posts spoiling my deception.

I just read the first half of this thread again - I stand by almost everything I said and think that my position turned out to be reasonable and confirmed by current events. Had to laugh at this one - don't know if I miss him, as cute as he was, though:

Originally Posted by Pardalis

But you admire autocracies, we all know you're a fan of Castro, Ahmadinejad, Putin, Chávez and Assad. You must be secretly seeking a father figure.

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

While you fancy the King of Saud, the Emir of Qatar, Ayman Al-Zawahiri and Hillary Clinton. You must be secretly seeking a mother figure as they all wear skirts.