zen

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 12:38 PM

Understanding yourself and help others.

What do you think about zen?

Agatha · 12th February 2012, 12:47 PM

I think you've spelled one of your tags wrong.

I don't know that I spend any time thinking about zen. Understanding myself and helping others isn't limited to zen, it's what most adult humans do on a daily basis.

As you've started the thread, how about you expand on what zen means to you?

AlBell · 12th February 2012, 01:37 PM

mu

fishbait · 12th February 2012, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Understanding yourself and help others.

What do you think about zen?

Like all other spiritual pursuits, zen is a refuge for failed humans. Just another way of distracting yourself from who you really are.

If you meet the Buddha on the road, don't kill him; kick him in the nuts.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Understanding yourself and help others.

What do you think about zen?

Wellcome to the forum No worn ever.

I agree with fish ba it.

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 01:54 PM

Zen to me is practice 24h a day.
Remaining with what is happening in you and around you, moment to moment. Not running away from yourself. Then the wall like a dam slowly collapses and Pandora's box is revealed... ultimately you come upon what is called enlightenment, pure and clear emptiness. Out of that, compassion is passion for eerybody, naturally, and you can save all beings from suffering.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Zen to me is practice 24h a day.
Remaining with what is happening in you and around you, moment to moment. Not running away from yourself. Then the wall like a dam slowly collapses and Pandora's box is revealed... ultimately you come upon what is called enlightenment, pure and clear emptiness. Out of that, compassion is passion for eerybody, naturally, and you can save all beings from suffering.

As I just said in another thread - "Delusion is a powerful ~~force~~ farce".

You could replace "delusion" with "Zen"

Squeegee Beckenheim · 12th February 2012, 02:03 PM

A Zen Buddhist walks into a pizza parlour and says "make me one with everything".

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:04 PM

The most popular koan in zen is:
WHO ARE YOU?

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Understanding yourself and help others.

What do you think about zen?

Yet another "What do you think?" thread that's really a "This is what I think" thread.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

The most popular koan in zen is:
WHO ARE YOU?

I AM ME, THEY ARE THEM, YOU ARE YOURSELF (no zen required)

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim

A Zen Buddhist walks into a pizza parlour and says "make me one with everything".

I had forgotten that I had forgotten that one

A reporter recently told that one to the Dali Lama and it went completely over his head - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogjFO8GNEo

crimresearch · 12th February 2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

The most popular koan in zen is:
WHO ARE YOU?

No, that's a hit by a British band.

The Koan you are thinking of is more like 'What was your face before you were born'?

You aren't following the 'teachings' of Ashida Kim by any chance, are you?

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:19 PM

Ynot - you post 3 thoughts in 3 posts.
Zen is ALL 3 THOUGHTS IN ONE POST...

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:21 PM

I am following "the teachings" od Seung Sahn.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Ynot - you post 3 thoughts in 3 posts.
Zen is ALL 3 THOUGHTS IN ONE POST...

WOW! - Three for the price of one! Where can I buy a zen then.

Stupid is stupid regardless of whether its measured by one or a million.

Edited by Tricky:

Edited for rule 12.

Bikewer · 12th February 2012, 02:26 PM

The Japanese co-opted Buddhism for the purposes of the Samurai and called it "Zen". Their practice, meditating on death, enabled them (it's said...) to enter battle fearlessly and not be afraid of dying.
Since the Samurai no longer chop each other into little pieces, the practice has become somewhat more civilized.

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:27 PM

fishbait-are you not a failed human?
If not, teach me how to be human, please...

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:31 PM

Bikewer-zen masters from Japan recently apologized for all that misbehaviour of their ancestors. Zen now is much more respected, even in technology...

crimresearch · 12th February 2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

I am following "the teachings" od Seung Sahn.

Same difference.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

fishbait-are you not a failed human?
If not, teach me how to be human, please...

Being human is the default consequence of being a human (no teaching or zen required).

What is a "failed human"? What is a "succeeded human"?

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:34 PM

Crimresearch-face before birth???
"When you die, where will you go?" - That's the question, and Seung Sahn gave the answer. Do you know the answer?

Agatha · 12th February 2012, 02:37 PM

What is a "failed human"?

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:37 PM

A succeeded human is an enlightened human. A human who understand life and death. Do you understand yourself? Why do you write every day?

crimresearch · 12th February 2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Crimresearch-face before birth???
"When you die, where will you go?" - That's the question, and Seung Sahn gave the answer. Do you know the answer?

Yeah... 'face before birth' is a famous Zen koan, that anyone who had studied would recognize.

Someone being conned by a fake, like SS, would of course have nothing but empty challenges generated by their monkey mind.

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:41 PM

Student: When you die, where will you go?
Seung Sahn: To the cemetery!

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:42 PM

The world has never said that SS was a fake!

Hokulele · 12th February 2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Do you understand yourself?

No, but it keeps things interesting!

I spent several years practicing Zen meditation. There are bits that I still find useful and bits that are silly. If you can't determine which are which, you may need to stop meditating on life and death and start experiencing it.

Brainache · 12th February 2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

The most popular koan in zen is:
WHO ARE YOU?

Maybe, but I prefer "Won't get fooled again".

To me, Zen is the sound of a tree falling when no one can hear it, and the applause of a one armed man who is one with nothingness.

Whoo this cryptic mystical crap is fun!

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:49 PM

Hokulele-thank you for your teaching.
I will try to experience it.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

A succeeded human is an enlightened human.

I've lost weight lately.

Originally Posted by nowornever

A human who understand life and death.

Life is the state of not being dead. Death is the state of not being alive.

Originally Posted by nowornever

Do you understand yourself?

"Yourself" is the reflexive form of "you".

Originally Posted by nowornever

Why do you write every day?

I didn't write "every day" . . . you did.

ynot · 12th February 2012, 02:51 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

The world has never said that SS was a fake!

The world has never said anything.

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:52 PM

Brainache-but I passed the koan "WHAT IS THE SOUND OF 1 CLAPPING HAND" during a personal interview with a zen teacher while a retreat. Have you passed it?

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 02:54 PM

ynot-I write every day FOR YOU.

Agatha · 12th February 2012, 02:55 PM

Does passing a koan make your eyes water?

crimresearch · 12th February 2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by Agatha

Does passing a koan make your eyes water?

Not if you swallow enough koolaid...

Brainache · 12th February 2012, 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by nowornever

Brainache-but I passed the koan "WHAT IS THE SOUND OF 1 CLAPPING HAND" during a personal interview with a zen teacher while a retreat. Have you passed it?

Yeah, it's like "cl, cl, cl,..." or possibly "ap, ap, ap..." depending which hand you use.

mikeyx · 12th February 2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by ynot

Being human is the default consequence of being a human (no teaching or zen required).

What is a "failed human"? What is a "succeeded human"?

YOU used the term debunker, answer him.

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 03:01 PM

Agatha-passing a koan makes me experience daily living better. After passing "HANGING ON A TREE KOAN" I changed completely.

nowornever · 12th February 2012, 03:04 PM

The story entitled "Thirty birds"

Once upon a time there were 100 birds who wanted to find out what the truth is. They heard about a sage living on the peak of a mountain who knew what life was about. They flew. On the way 7o of them saw interesting things (a beautiful partner, a beautiful place, a beautiful job, a beautiful forum etc. etc.) and stayed there. The remaining 30 eventually got to the mountain peak and saw...but instead of seeing the sage to tell them what the truth was, they saw a big mirror in which they saw the thirty birds, themselves.

12th February 2012, 12:38 PM	#1
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	zen Understanding yourself and help others. What do you think about zen?
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 12:47 PM	#2
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,225	I think you've spelled one of your tags wrong. I don't know that I spend any time thinking about zen. Understanding myself and helping others isn't limited to zen, it's what most adult humans do on a daily basis. As you've started the thread, how about you expand on what zen means to you?
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

12th February 2012, 01:37 PM	#3
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,508	mu
AlBell Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,508

12th February 2012, 01:44 PM	#4
fishbait Raggin' the Blues Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: New York Posts: 1,013	Originally Posted by nowornever Understanding yourself and help others. What do you think about zen? Like all other spiritual pursuits, zen is a refuge for failed humans. Just another way of distracting yourself from who you really are. If you meet the Buddha on the road, don't kill him; kick him in the nuts.
	__________________ "I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" ************. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are." --Bill Hicks

12th February 2012, 01:51 PM	#5
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever Understanding yourself and help others. What do you think about zen? Wellcome to the forum No worn ever. I agree with fish ba it.
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise. Last edited by ynot; 12th February 2012 at 01:53 PM.

12th February 2012, 01:54 PM	#6
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Pandora's box Zen to me is practice 24h a day. Remaining with what is happening in you and around you, moment to moment. Not running away from yourself. Then the wall like a dam slowly collapses and Pandora's box is revealed... ultimately you come upon what is called enlightenment, pure and clear emptiness. Out of that, compassion is passion for eerybody, naturally, and you can save all beings from suffering.
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 01:58 PM	#7
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever Zen to me is practice 24h a day. Remaining with what is happening in you and around you, moment to moment. Not running away from yourself. Then the wall like a dam slowly collapses and Pandora's box is revealed... ultimately you come upon what is called enlightenment, pure and clear emptiness. Out of that, compassion is passion for eerybody, naturally, and you can save all beings from suffering. As I just said in another thread - "Delusion is a powerful ~~force~~ farce". You could replace "delusion" with "Zen"
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise. Last edited by ynot; 12th February 2012 at 02:03 PM.

12th February 2012, 02:03 PM	#8
Squeegee Beckenheim Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,259	A Zen Buddhist walks into a pizza parlour and says "make me one with everything".
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

12th February 2012, 02:04 PM	#9
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Who are you? The most popular koan in zen is: WHO ARE YOU?
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:06 PM	#10
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever Understanding yourself and help others. What do you think about zen? Yet another "What do you think?" thread that's really a "This is what I think" thread.
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise.

12th February 2012, 02:07 PM	#11
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever The most popular koan in zen is: WHO ARE YOU? I AM ME, THEY ARE THEM, YOU ARE YOURSELF (no zen required)
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise. Last edited by ynot; 12th February 2012 at 02:08 PM.

12th February 2012, 02:10 PM	#12
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim A Zen Buddhist walks into a pizza parlour and says "make me one with everything". I had forgotten that I had forgotten that one A reporter recently told that one to the Dali Lama and it went completely over his head - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GogjFO8GNEo
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise. Last edited by ynot; 12th February 2012 at 02:17 PM.

12th February 2012, 02:19 PM	#13
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by nowornever The most popular koan in zen is: WHO ARE YOU? No, that's a hit by a British band. The Koan you are thinking of is more like 'What was your face before you were born'? You aren't following the 'teachings' of Ashida Kim by any chance, are you?
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

12th February 2012, 02:19 PM	#14
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	10 000 Dharmas come back to 1. Where does 1 come back? Ynot - you post 3 thoughts in 3 posts. Zen is ALL 3 THOUGHTS IN ONE POST...
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:21 PM	#15
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Where are you going? Watch your step! I am following "the teachings" od Seung Sahn.
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:26 PM	#17
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,536	The Japanese co-opted Buddhism for the purposes of the Samurai and called it "Zen". Their practice, meditating on death, enabled them (it's said...) to enter battle fearlessly and not be afraid of dying. Since the Samurai no longer chop each other into little pieces, the practice has become somewhat more civilized.

12th February 2012, 02:27 PM	#18
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	What are you doing now? fishbait-are you not a failed human? If not, teach me how to be human, please...
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:31 PM	#19
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	When you are doing something, just do it! Bikewer-zen masters from Japan recently apologized for all that misbehaviour of their ancestors. Zen now is much more respected, even in technology...
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:31 PM	#20
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by nowornever I am following "the teachings" od Seung Sahn. Same difference.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

12th February 2012, 02:31 PM	#21
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever fishbait-are you not a failed human? If not, teach me how to be human, please... Being human is the default consequence of being a human (no teaching or zen required). What is a "failed human"? What is a "succeeded human"?
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise. Last edited by ynot; 12th February 2012 at 02:33 PM.

12th February 2012, 02:34 PM	#22
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Just do it! Don't check! Crimresearch-face before birth??? "When you die, where will you go?" - That's the question, and Seung Sahn gave the answer. Do you know the answer?
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:37 PM	#23
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,225	What is a "failed human"?
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

12th February 2012, 02:37 PM	#24
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Life will not wait for you. Hurry up! Hurry up! A succeeded human is an enlightened human. A human who understand life and death. Do you understand yourself? Why do you write every day?
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:38 PM	#25
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by nowornever Crimresearch-face before birth??? "When you die, where will you go?" - That's the question, and Seung Sahn gave the answer. Do you know the answer? Yeah... 'face before birth' is a famous Zen koan, that anyone who had studied would recognize. Someone being conned by a fake, like SS, would of course have nothing but empty challenges generated by their monkey mind.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

12th February 2012, 02:41 PM	#26
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	where will you go? Student: When you die, where will you go? Seung Sahn: To the cemetery!
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:42 PM	#27
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Don't make anything! The world has never said that SS was a fake!
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:46 PM	#28
Hokulele Official Nemesis Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Trying to decide whether to set defenses against an army, or against mole rats. Posts: 27,274	Originally Posted by nowornever Do you understand yourself? No, but it keeps things interesting! I spent several years practicing Zen meditation. There are bits that I still find useful and bits that are silly. If you can't determine which are which, you may need to stop meditating on life and death and start experiencing it.
	__________________ Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" Some person: "Why did you shoot that?" Yvette: "Blasty! Blasty! Blasty!" - Tragic Monkey

12th February 2012, 02:47 PM	#29
Brainache Nasty Brutish and Tall Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Knob Hill. Posts: 9,086	Originally Posted by nowornever The most popular koan in zen is: WHO ARE YOU? Maybe, but I prefer "Won't get fooled again". To me, Zen is the sound of a tree falling when no one can hear it, and the applause of a one armed man who is one with nothingness. Whoo this cryptic mystical crap is fun!
	__________________ Words cannot convey the vertiginous retching horror that enveloped me as I lost consciousness. - W. S. Burroughs Invert the prominent diaphragm!!!

12th February 2012, 02:49 PM	#30
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Teach me. Hokulele-thank you for your teaching. I will try to experience it.
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:50 PM	#31
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever A succeeded human is an enlightened human. I've lost weight lately. Originally Posted by nowornever A human who understand life and death. Life is the state of not being dead. Death is the state of not being alive. Originally Posted by nowornever Do you understand yourself? "Yourself" is the reflexive form of "you". Originally Posted by nowornever Why do you write every day? I didn't write "every day" . . . you did.
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise.

12th February 2012, 02:51 PM	#32
ynot Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Zealand Posts: 4,654	Originally Posted by nowornever The world has never said that SS was a fake! The world has never said anything.
	__________________ Rumours of a god’s existence have been greatly exaggerated. My post are all (IMO) unless stated otherwise.

12th February 2012, 02:52 PM	#33
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	1 hand clapping Brainache-but I passed the koan "WHAT IS THE SOUND OF 1 CLAPPING HAND" during a personal interview with a zen teacher while a retreat. Have you passed it?
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:54 PM	#34
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247	Why do you breathe every day? ynot-I write every day FOR YOU.
nowornever Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 247

12th February 2012, 02:55 PM	#35
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,225	Does passing a koan make your eyes water?
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

12th February 2012, 02:56 PM	#36
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Agatha Does passing a koan make your eyes water? Not if you swallow enough koolaid...
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618