Elchin Khalilov: "STRANGE SOUNDS IN SKY EXPLAINED BY SCIENTISTS"

Miscreant · 13th February 2012, 06:10 PM

I've been looking for a critique of the article which recently appeared on the "GeoChange" site: "STRANGE SOUNDS IN SKY EXPLAINED BY SCIENTISTS". I hadn't been able to find anything except references to it on sites such as "Conspiracy HQ."

This GeoChange piece with its reference to “The Sound of the Apocalypse” seems more like sensationalism than rigorous science to me, but the phenomenon of "acoustic-gravity waves" does exist. Thoughts? Perhaps somebody could point me toward a source or two which give a critical examination of Khalilov's work on this topic?

Thanks.

Complexity · 13th February 2012, 07:55 PM

"Sound of the Apocalypse"?

Not science.

Miscreant · 14th February 2012, 02:15 AM

Well yes, I would tend to agree, but then again we know that people often use sensational titles or colorful phrases to draw attention to what is otherwise legitimate work. What I have found so far on "acoustic-gravity waves" is legitimate work done on a phenomenon generated by large volcanic eruptions. This seems to be something else entirely, but I have so far been unable to find anything but links back to Khalilov's site.

Complexity · 14th February 2012, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by Miscreant

Well yes, I would tend to agree, but then again we know that people often use sensational titles or colorful phrases to draw attention to what is otherwise legitimate work.

I stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo.

I suggest that you do the same.

AdMan · 14th February 2012, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by Miscreant

I've been looking for a critique of the article which recently appeared on the "GeoChange" site: "STRANGE SOUNDS IN SKY EXPLAINED BY SCIENTISTS". I hadn't been able to find anything except references to it on sites such as "Conspiracy HQ."

This GeoChange piece with its reference to “The Sound of the Apocalypse” seems more like sensationalism than rigorous science to me, but the phenomenon of "acoustic-gravity waves" does exist. Thoughts? Perhaps somebody could point me toward a source or two which give a critical examination of Khalilov's work on this topic?

Thanks.

I haven't found sources that examine Khalilov's claims, but here is the original source of the GeoChange article:

http://wosco.org/index.shtml?script=...fo&id_file=365

BTW, has anyone heard of the "World Organization for Scientific Cooperation (WOSCO)"?

I'd never heard of it, and the only entry on Wikipedia that I could find on it looks mighty fishy (as does the "WOSCO" site itself): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ea...ic_Cooperation.

Goshawk · 14th February 2012, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

BTW, has anyone heard of the "World Organization for Scientific Cooperation (WOSCO)"?

No, and I think it's telling that the only people on the Internet who have heard of their "International Geodynamic Monitoring System" are the ones quoting WOSCO itself. Which people somehow--strangely--all tend to be conspiracy theorists.

But I have to say, their Atropatena Earthquake Forecasting Station is a thing of true beauty, and I want one for my living room.
http://www.wosco.org/index.shtml?id_...3&id_node=1447

AdMan · 14th February 2012, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Goshawk

No, and I think it's telling that the only people on the Internet who have heard of their "International Geodynamic Monitoring System" are the ones quoting WOSCO itself. Which people somehow--strangely--all tend to be conspiracy theorists.

But I have to say, their Atropatena Earthquake Forecasting Station is a thing of true beauty, and I want one for my living room.
http://www.wosco.org/index.shtml?id_...3&id_node=1447

http://i.imgur.com/aqIaq.jpg

LOL I had seen a picture of that thing on the "Geocataclysm 2011" site (linked to from the GeoChange site--it seems like all these "organizations" are connected) and was wondering what the heck it was.

GeoChange's "communiqué" presented "to the UN, European Union, International Organizations and Governments of States" makes for fun reading:

Quote:

Natural cataclysms may, in a short space of time, cause catastrophic consequences for entire regions of our planet: a lot of people will die, the populations of large territories will be deprived of shelter and livelihood, economies of states will be destroyed, and large scale epidemics of serious infectious diseases will occur.

http://geochange-report.org/index.ph...d=47&Itemid=27

Yeah, I'd take their analysis of the "Sound of the Apocalypse" with a hefty grain of salt...

threadworm · 14th February 2012, 09:01 AM

If you do some research into who runs Geochange, WOSCO and the people who keep interviewing Elchin Khalilov, you'll find there is a common denominator.

Elchin Khalilov.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th February 2012, 09:31 AM

And herein one finds the answer to this whole puzzle. The usual suspect yet again: a money making scheme....

...to sell books and whatever else in this case.

It's a typical example of someone putting up a website claiming to be a national or international organization when in reality there are only a handful of people behind it. They make some outrageous claim, ITEOTWAWKI or some miracle cure are the most common themes with magical knowledge coming in third.

Skeptic Ginger · 14th February 2012, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by AdMan

...

GeoChange's "communiqué" presented "to the UN, European Union, International Organizations and Governments of States" makes for fun reading:...

Ah yes, fake credibility can be added by mailing something to an organization like the UN and claiming your scientific discovery was "presented" at the organization. I saw one once where the claimant got up to the mike at a conference then later claimed to be a "presenter" at the conference.

AdMan · 14th February 2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Goshawk

But I have to say, their Atropatena Earthquake Forecasting Station is a thing of true beauty, and I want one for my living room.
http://www.wosco.org/index.shtml?id_...3&id_node=1447

Here's an explanation of how one of these things is supposed to work (though it looks like this was an early model, not quite as aesthetically pleasing as the one above):

http://seismonet.org/page.html?id_node=156

I'm not a seismologist, but it sounds like a huge load of pseudoscience to me.

idoubtit · 14th February 2012, 10:15 AM

I just picked up this article yesterday and started digging in today. I'll certain publish something about it. I found the same info as you guys did above and through a search, discovered it being discussed here. Joy.

Miscreant · 14th February 2012, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by Complexity

I stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo.

I suggest that you do the same.

Thank you, Complexity, and all the others who've contributed to this thread thus far.

1. I don't stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo, because rather than merely attaching (what seems to me to be) an accurate label, I prefer to counter them with solid information. The main reason I joined this site is to bring issues such as the one in the OP (which I had not been able to sufficiently dissect on my own) to the attention of like-minded folks who might be able to do a better job collectively than I alone.

2. I had encountered the suspicious nature of "GeoChange" and "WOSCO" in my research on this topic, but as I wrote above, I don't consider my personal suspicions and opinions sufficiently authoritative. Pointing and laughing is all very well, but I prefer to take a fact-hammer to structures made of malarkey.

Complexity · 14th February 2012, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Miscreant

Thank you, Complexity, and all the others who've contributed to this thread thus far.

1. I don't stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo, because rather than merely attaching an accurate label, I prefer to counter them with solid information. The main reason I joined this site is to bring issues such as the one in the OP (which I had not been able to sufficiently dissect on my own) to the attention of like-minded folks who might be able to do a better job collectively than I alone.

I'm glad you still enjoy doing so.

I used to, as well. That ended many years ago.

The number of frauds and woo is enormous, and I've had to become much more stingy with my time.

idoubtit · 15th February 2012, 06:23 PM

OK. I dissected it best I could.
http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/0...unds-sciencey/

Goshawk · 15th February 2012, 07:29 PM

Good job.

Quote:

How did Khalilov get to the assumption that the increase in solar activity is causing the hum?

Logic.

1. The hum is there.
2. It wasn't there before.
3. What changed?
4. Increased solar activity.
5. Therefore, increased solar activity caused the hum.

See.

casebro · 15th February 2012, 07:41 PM

Waaaait a minute, why are they ignoring Global Warming as the cause?

Ceritus · 15th February 2012, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Complexity

I'm glad you still enjoy doing so.

I used to, as well. That ended many years ago.

The number of frauds and woo is enormous, and I've had to become much more stingy with my time.

I completely understand you with this and hey its been a while.

Miscreant · 16th February 2012, 03:26 AM

Excellent piece, idoubtit. Thank you for taking the time to pull apart the GeoChange/WOSCO article; it is exactly this type of analysis that I was hoping to find here, and I'm very glad that I posted my question.

MRC_Hans · 16th February 2012, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by idoubtit

OK. I dissected it best I could.
http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/0...unds-sciencey/

Hans

Complexity · 16th February 2012, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Ceritus

I completely understand you with this and hey its been a while.

Hey, back at yourself. Long time, but I remember you.

Welcome back!

BenBurch · 16th February 2012, 10:32 AM

A podcast we listen to ascribed the sounds to an obscure musical instrument called a "Waterphone."

Goshawk · 16th February 2012, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

A podcast we listen to ascribed the sounds to an obscure musical instrument called a "Waterphone."

This guy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceG4KhtABUI

Stellafane · 17th February 2012, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by idoubtit

OK. I dissected it best I could.
http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/0...unds-sciencey/

Very nice articles in the latest issue of SI, btw. (I was reminded of them by your use of the word "sciencey.")

idoubtit · 17th February 2012, 05:33 AM

Ah. Yes. That's me.

I'll also be mentioning this in a piece for my next Sounds Sciencey column where I look at Fortean Flaps of the last 2 years. Keep an eye out.
Sounds Sciencey

13th February 2012, 06:10 PM	#1
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5	Elchin Khalilov: "STRANGE SOUNDS IN SKY EXPLAINED BY SCIENTISTS" I've been looking for a critique of the article which recently appeared on the "GeoChange" site: "STRANGE SOUNDS IN SKY EXPLAINED BY SCIENTISTS". I hadn't been able to find anything except references to it on sites such as "Conspiracy HQ." This GeoChange piece with its reference to “The Sound of the Apocalypse” seems more like sensationalism than rigorous science to me, but the phenomenon of "acoustic-gravity waves" does exist. Thoughts? Perhaps somebody could point me toward a source or two which give a critical examination of Khalilov's work on this topic? Thanks.
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5

13th February 2012, 07:55 PM	#2
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	"Sound of the Apocalypse"? Not science.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

14th February 2012, 02:15 AM	#3
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5	Well yes, I would tend to agree, but then again we know that people often use sensational titles or colorful phrases to draw attention to what is otherwise legitimate work. What I have found so far on "acoustic-gravity waves" is legitimate work done on a phenomenon generated by large volcanic eruptions. This seems to be something else entirely, but I have so far been unable to find anything but links back to Khalilov's site.
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5

14th February 2012, 06:38 AM	#4
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Miscreant Well yes, I would tend to agree, but then again we know that people often use sensational titles or colorful phrases to draw attention to what is otherwise legitimate work. I stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo. I suggest that you do the same.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

14th February 2012, 08:00 AM	#5
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Miscreant I've been looking for a critique of the article which recently appeared on the "GeoChange" site: "STRANGE SOUNDS IN SKY EXPLAINED BY SCIENTISTS". I hadn't been able to find anything except references to it on sites such as "Conspiracy HQ." This GeoChange piece with its reference to “The Sound of the Apocalypse” seems more like sensationalism than rigorous science to me, but the phenomenon of "acoustic-gravity waves" does exist. Thoughts? Perhaps somebody could point me toward a source or two which give a critical examination of Khalilov's work on this topic? Thanks. I haven't found sources that examine Khalilov's claims, but here is the original source of the GeoChange article: http://wosco.org/index.shtml?script=...fo&id_file=365 BTW, has anyone heard of the "World Organization for Scientific Cooperation (WOSCO)"? I'd never heard of it, and the only entry on Wikipedia that I could find on it looks mighty fishy (as does the "WOSCO" site itself): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ea...ic_Cooperation.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Last edited by AdMan; 14th February 2012 at 08:03 AM.

14th February 2012, 08:41 AM	#6
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	Originally Posted by AdMan BTW, has anyone heard of the "World Organization for Scientific Cooperation (WOSCO)"? No, and I think it's telling that the only people on the Internet who have heard of their "International Geodynamic Monitoring System" are the ones quoting WOSCO itself. Which people somehow--strangely--all tend to be conspiracy theorists. But I have to say, their Atropatena Earthquake Forecasting Station is a thing of true beauty, and I want one for my living room. http://www.wosco.org/index.shtml?id_...3&id_node=1447

14th February 2012, 08:57 AM	#7
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Goshawk No, and I think it's telling that the only people on the Internet who have heard of their "International Geodynamic Monitoring System" are the ones quoting WOSCO itself. Which people somehow--strangely--all tend to be conspiracy theorists. But I have to say, their Atropatena Earthquake Forecasting Station is a thing of true beauty, and I want one for my living room. http://www.wosco.org/index.shtml?id_...3&id_node=1447 http://i.imgur.com/aqIaq.jpg LOL I had seen a picture of that thing on the "Geocataclysm 2011" site (linked to from the GeoChange site--it seems like all these "organizations" are connected) and was wondering what the heck it was. GeoChange's "communiqué" presented "to the UN, European Union, International Organizations and Governments of States" makes for fun reading: Quote: Natural cataclysms may, in a short space of time, cause catastrophic consequences for entire regions of our planet: a lot of people will die, the populations of large territories will be deprived of shelter and livelihood, economies of states will be destroyed, and large scale epidemics of serious infectious diseases will occur. http://geochange-report.org/index.ph...d=47&Itemid=27 Yeah, I'd take their analysis of the "Sound of the Apocalypse" with a hefty grain of salt...
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

14th February 2012, 09:01 AM	#8
threadworm Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 564	If you do some research into who runs Geochange, WOSCO and the people who keep interviewing Elchin Khalilov, you'll find there is a common denominator. Elchin Khalilov.
threadworm Muse Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 564

14th February 2012, 09:31 AM	#9
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,563	And herein one finds the answer to this whole puzzle. The usual suspect yet again: a money making scheme.... ...to sell books and whatever else in this case. It's a typical example of someone putting up a website claiming to be a national or international organization when in reality there are only a handful of people behind it. They make some outrageous claim, ITEOTWAWKI or some miracle cure are the most common themes with magical knowledge coming in third.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

14th February 2012, 09:35 AM	#10
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,563	Originally Posted by AdMan ... GeoChange's "communiqué" presented "to the UN, European Union, International Organizations and Governments of States" makes for fun reading:... Ah yes, fake credibility can be added by mailing something to an organization like the UN and claiming your scientific discovery was "presented" at the organization. I saw one once where the claimant got up to the mike at a conference then later claimed to be a "presenter" at the conference.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

14th February 2012, 09:52 AM	#11
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	Originally Posted by Goshawk But I have to say, their Atropatena Earthquake Forecasting Station is a thing of true beauty, and I want one for my living room. http://www.wosco.org/index.shtml?id_...3&id_node=1447 Here's an explanation of how one of these things is supposed to work (though it looks like this was an early model, not quite as aesthetically pleasing as the one above): http://seismonet.org/page.html?id_node=156 I'm not a seismologist, but it sounds like a huge load of pseudoscience to me.
AdMan Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 7,173	__________________ It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. - Carl Sagan

14th February 2012, 10:15 AM	#12
idoubtit Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 318	I just picked up this article yesterday and started digging in today. I'll certain publish something about it. I found the same info as you guys did above and through a search, discovered it being discussed here. Joy.
	__________________ Sharon Hill About Me Editor, Doubtful News Blog: idoubtit.wordpress.com Twitter: idoubtit

14th February 2012, 10:21 AM	#13
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5	Originally Posted by Complexity I stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo. I suggest that you do the same. Thank you, Complexity, and all the others who've contributed to this thread thus far. 1. I don't stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo, because rather than merely attaching (what seems to me to be) an accurate label, I prefer to counter them with solid information. The main reason I joined this site is to bring issues such as the one in the OP (which I had not been able to sufficiently dissect on my own) to the attention of like-minded folks who might be able to do a better job collectively than I alone. 2. I had encountered the suspicious nature of "GeoChange" and "WOSCO" in my research on this topic, but as I wrote above, I don't consider my personal suspicions and opinions sufficiently authoritative. Pointing and laughing is all very well, but I prefer to take a fact-hammer to structures made of malarkey.
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5	Last edited by Miscreant; 14th February 2012 at 10:34 AM.

14th February 2012, 10:31 AM	#14
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Miscreant Thank you, Complexity, and all the others who've contributed to this thread thus far. 1. I don't stop as soon as I detect idiocy and woo, because rather than merely attaching an accurate label, I prefer to counter them with solid information. The main reason I joined this site is to bring issues such as the one in the OP (which I had not been able to sufficiently dissect on my own) to the attention of like-minded folks who might be able to do a better job collectively than I alone. I'm glad you still enjoy doing so. I used to, as well. That ended many years ago. The number of frauds and woo is enormous, and I've had to become much more stingy with my time.
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

15th February 2012, 06:23 PM	#15
idoubtit Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 318	OK. I dissected it best I could. http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/0...unds-sciencey/
	__________________ Sharon Hill About Me Editor, Doubtful News Blog: idoubtit.wordpress.com Twitter: idoubtit

15th February 2012, 07:29 PM	#16
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	Good job. Quote: How did Khalilov get to the assumption that the increase in solar activity is causing the hum? Logic. 1. The hum is there. 2. It wasn't there before. 3. What changed? 4. Increased solar activity. 5. Therefore, increased solar activity caused the hum. See.

15th February 2012, 07:41 PM	#17
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,792	Waaaait a minute, why are they ignoring Global Warming as the cause?
casebro Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6,792	__________________ Please pardon me for having ideas, not facts. Some have called me cynical, but I don't believe them. It's not how many breaths you take. It's how many times you have been breathless that counts.

15th February 2012, 07:41 PM	#18
Ceritus Suspended Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: I am the mind that you call home. Posts: 650	Originally Posted by Complexity I'm glad you still enjoy doing so. I used to, as well. That ended many years ago. The number of frauds and woo is enormous, and I've had to become much more stingy with my time. I completely understand you with this and hey its been a while.

16th February 2012, 03:26 AM	#19
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5	Yay, idoubtit! Excellent piece, idoubtit. Thank you for taking the time to pull apart the GeoChange/WOSCO article; it is exactly this type of analysis that I was hoping to find here, and I'm very glad that I posted my question.
Miscreant New Blood Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 5

16th February 2012, 03:59 AM	#20
MRC_Hans Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Whithin earshot of the North Sea Posts: 16,600	Originally Posted by idoubtit OK. I dissected it best I could. http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/0...unds-sciencey/ Hans
	__________________ Don't. Just don't.

16th February 2012, 06:28 AM	#21
Complexity The Woo Whisperer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Minnesota, USA Posts: 9,263	Originally Posted by Ceritus I completely understand you with this and hey its been a while. Hey, back at yourself. Long time, but I remember you. Welcome back!
	__________________ "It is a great nuisance that knowledge can only be acquired by hard work." - W. Somerset Maugham "Thought is subversive and revolutionary, destructive and terrible; thought is merciless to privilege, established intuititions, and comfortable habit. Thought looks into the pit of hell and is not afraid. Thought is great and swift and free, the light of the world, and the chief glory of man." - Bertrand Russell

16th February 2012, 10:32 AM	#22
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,142	A podcast we listen to ascribed the sounds to an obscure musical instrument called a "Waterphone."
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

16th February 2012, 12:31 PM	#23
Goshawk Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Decatur, Illinois, USA Posts: 1,453	Originally Posted by BenBurch A podcast we listen to ascribed the sounds to an obscure musical instrument called a "Waterphone." This guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceG4KhtABUI

17th February 2012, 04:46 AM	#24
Stellafane Village Idiot. Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Green Mountains Posts: 6,275	Originally Posted by idoubtit OK. I dissected it best I could. http://idoubtit.wordpress.com/2012/0...unds-sciencey/ Very nice articles in the latest issue of SI, btw. (I was reminded of them by your use of the word "sciencey.")
	__________________ Another Shameless Googlebomb Plug for www.stopsylvia.com Last edited by Stellafane; 17th February 2012 at 04:48 AM.

17th February 2012, 05:33 AM	#25
idoubtit Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2007 Location: Central PA Posts: 318	Ah. Yes. That's me. I'll also be mentioning this in a piece for my next Sounds Sciencey column where I look at Fortean Flaps of the last 2 years. Keep an eye out. Sounds Sciencey
	__________________ Sharon Hill About Me Editor, Doubtful News Blog: idoubtit.wordpress.com Twitter: idoubtit