The LBJ-CIA Assassination of JFK

[SpringHallConvert]

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

Evidence would be nice, but since LHO and LHO alone shot and killed JFK...

You don't know this with any certainty.

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

You don't know this with any certainty.

I do. LHO absolutely did it, without any help.
Only stupid people think otherwise.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

I do. LHO absolutely did it, without any help.
Only stupid people think otherwise.

I think it's more delusion than stupidity, but it leads to the same end result.

[TheRedWorm]

So out of this post, Spring comments on only the bolded:

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

So tell me exactly who took the shot, how, and why. Evidence would be nice, but since LHO and LHO alone shot and killed JFK, I know you won't be providing any. Also, when you actually get around to firing a rifle (of which I have several) at a relatively hard object enclosing a relatively soft/aqueous material, you actually come to expect the object moving back in the opposite direction of bullet travel. I got my results using a .22Mag firing at a plastic bottle filled with water.

How about all the bits immediately preceding and succeeding it?

[Mudcat]

[SpringHallConvert]

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

I do. LHO absolutely did it, without any help.

Only stupid people think this.

[The Dark Lord]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Only stupid people think this.

The irony.

[Robert Morrow]

One big reason for the JFK assassination was that the Kennedys in the fall of 1963 were within days of politically and personally destroying Lyndon Johnson.

Robert Kennedy in fall of 1963, was telling the Wash DC press that it was open season on Lyndon Johnson: The Kennedys and LBJ were having a fight: the Kennedys brought knives to it and LBJ brought guns; they had no idea how dangerous LBJ was.

Here is a good link by Phil Brennan, detailing the pressure that Robert Kennedy was putting on Lyndon Johnson at this time: http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esixthfloor/brennen.htm
"Some Relevant Facts About the JFK Assassination" by Phil Brennan, who wrote this article in 2003.

[TheRedWorm]

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

So tell me exactly who took the shot, how, and why. Evidence would be nice, but since LHO and LHO alone shot and killed JFK, I know you won't be providing any. Also, when you actually get around to firing a rifle (of which I have several) at a relatively hard object enclosing a relatively soft/aqueous material, you actually come to expect the object moving back in the opposite direction of bullet travel. I got my results using a .22Mag firing at a plastic bottle filled with water.

Originally Posted by TheRedWorm

Can't you even attempt a response, Robert?

So I'm going to go ahead and guess no.

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Only stupid people think this.

Who helped you come up with such an original comeback? I know you had to have assistance, because this is far too clever.

[SpringHallConvert]

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

Who helped you come up with such an original comeback? I know you had to have assistance, because this is far too clever.

I used your overwhelming originality as inspiration. Why, what's the matter? You don't find it very original?

Welcome to your world, pal.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

I used your overwhelming originality as inspiration. Why, what's the matter? You don't find it very original?

Welcome to your world, pal.

It is necessary to come down to your junior high school level.

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

I used your overwhelming originality as inspiration. Why, what's the matter? You don't find it very original?

Welcome to your world, pal.

You're welcome to come live in it. Then you don't have to be paranoid over imaginary boogie men.

[SpringHallConvert]

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

You're welcome to come live in it. Then you don't have to be paranoid over imaginary boogie men.

You mean, like how you are with Lee Harvey Oswald?

No thanks. You're just as paranoid as anybody else. Even worse, you're a sucker for U.S. government B.S.

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

You mean, like how you are with Lee Harvey Oswald?

No thanks. You're just as paranoid as anybody else. Even worse, you're a sucker for U.S. government B.S.

Paranoid over a dead man? Maybe you need to look up the definition. What would I need to be afraid of? Zombie LHO? Sorry, don't think he's much of a threat.

As far as being as paranoid as everyone else, I don't need to be. I'm ex-military, so I know how that works better than most. I pay my taxes, obey traffic laws, don't beat my wife or children. Nobody is out to harm me, and the only ones that want to shut me up are conspiracy loons who have no power or means to do so. Heck, most of your ilk would harm themselves trying to. Be like Elmer Fudd trying to get that wascaly wabbit.

Oh, and do try to do something about that blood pressure. Don't want you to have a stroke! You're my new best friend!

[DGM]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

You mean, like how you are with Lee Harvey Oswald?

No thanks. You're just as paranoid as anybody else. Even worse, you're a sucker for U.S. government B.S.

But in your world you fear everyone. There are no "good guys", right? All governments are the same, everyone is out to get you.

[SpringHallConvert]

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

As far as being as paranoid as everyone else, I don't need to be. I'm ex-military, so I know how that works better than most.

Really? Do tell.

Quote:

I pay my taxes, obey traffic laws, don't beat my wife or children. Nobody is out to harm me...

At least, as far as you know of.

Quote:

...and the only ones that want to shut me up are conspiracy loons who have no power or means to do so.

Oh, yes, I'm sure those conspiracy theorists are out there with pitchforks trying to get you so they can make you shut up.

And you say you're not paranoid? Ha, ha, ha...

[JimBenArm]

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Really? Do tell.



At least, as far as you know of.



Oh, yes, I'm sure those conspiracy theorists are out there with pitchforks trying to get you so they can make you shut up.

And you say you're not paranoid? Ha, ha, ha...

So, I need to be afraid of plots to harm me I don't know about? Really. Well, if my new best friend says so, I'm terrified. I'm hiding under the bed now. Will that protect me?
And why would I be afraid of the CT'ers? Now that we're bestest buddies, they'd never hurt me. After all, I'm one of you guys now.

Did you look up the definition of paranoid yet? I really think you should.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by JimBenArm

Did you look up the definition of paranoid yet? I really think you should.

A truther doing research? Perish the thought! Ha ha ha.

[Robert Morrow]

Do you think gangster and Lansky Meyer associate, Lucky Luciano, was describing Lyndon Johnson in this vignette?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/in...howtopic=18962

“This one senator who come to see me in Naples, he drank more booze, took out more airline stewardesses and embassy secretaries, and spent more counterpart funds than any nine congressmen put together, and to top it, he had a yen to be in the White House. He also had a yen to meet me. So we met, and I found out he would steal a red-hot stove. He talked about tryin’ to fix up a way for me to come back to the States. He said he knew my record, but he also knew that Asslinger (Henry Anslinger ed.) was way off base where I was concerned; he said he’d asked the American Embassy guys, includin’ [Charles] Siragusa, to show him proof that I was connected with the drug traffic in Italy, and he said they had come up empty.

“Just before he left my apartment, he happened to look at this ring I wear on my pinky [a star sapphire and diamonds set in platinum] and he said to me, “That’s a beautiful ring. I’ve always wanted one like that.’ I could’ve thrown that hayseed right off the roof. Instead I said, ‘Senator, you can have it and a lot more the day I set foot in New York–permanent.’ We shook hands and he left and that’s the last I ever saw of that chiselin’ son of a bitch.”

(Off to one side of the room during this conversation sat an Italian friend of Luciano’s who spoke no English. But he remembered the meeting clearly, for when it was over Luciano told him the man was an important United States senator. He was not told the visitor’s name, but recently he described him as “a tall, thin man. He wore glasses and he had a very prominent nose. What I remember best about him is his enormous capacity for drinking.”

[jhunter1163]

His name was Meyer Lansky, not Lansky Meyer. And it was John McCone, not James. Getting this kind of thing wrong doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the rest of your thesis.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

Do you think gangster and Lansky Meyer associate, Lucky Luciano, was describing Lyndon Johnson in this vignette?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/in...howtopic=18962

“This one senator who come to see me in Naples, he drank more booze, took out more airline stewardesses and embassy secretaries, and spent more counterpart funds than any nine congressmen put together, and to top it, he had a yen to be in the White House. He also had a yen to meet me. So we met, and I found out he would steal a red-hot stove. He talked about tryin’ to fix up a way for me to come back to the States. He said he knew my record, but he also knew that Asslinger (Henry Anslinger ed.) was way off base where I was concerned; he said he’d asked the American Embassy guys, includin’ [Charles] Siragusa, to show him proof that I was connected with the drug traffic in Italy, and he said they had come up empty.

“Just before he left my apartment, he happened to look at this ring I wear on my pinky [a star sapphire and diamonds set in platinum] and he said to me, “That’s a beautiful ring. I’ve always wanted one like that.’ I could’ve thrown that hayseed right off the roof. Instead I said, ‘Senator, you can have it and a lot more the day I set foot in New York–permanent.’ We shook hands and he left and that’s the last I ever saw of that chiselin’ son of a bitch.”

(Off to one side of the room during this conversation sat an Italian friend of Luciano’s who spoke no English. But he remembered the meeting clearly, for when it was over Luciano told him the man was an important United States senator. He was not told the visitor’s name, but recently he described him as “a tall, thin man. He wore glasses and he had a very prominent nose. What I remember best about him is his enormous capacity for drinking.”

No, and after having posting the story at the link you posted, you rejected the idea that it was LBJ.

Trying your luck here? hoping it will change?

[Regnad Kcin]

Originally Posted by jhunter1163

His name was Meyer Lansky, not Lansky Meyer. And it was John McCone, not James. Getting this kind of thing wrong doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the rest of your thesis.

Correct.

And yet how can this be, considering:

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

I have been studying the JFK assassination pretty intensely for 4 years.

[Robert Morrow]

Originally Posted by BStrong

No, and after having posting the story at the link you posted, you rejected the idea that it was LBJ.

Trying your luck here? hoping it will change?

I now think Luciano was referring to Estes Kefauver, not LBJ. And I also think Luciano was making the whole thing up.

However, it does describe Lyndon Johnson and his behavior to a t.

Hey, BStrong, would you care to tell us about all your experiences "south" of the border and how you knew so many of those folks who wrote books about CIA drug smuggling.

Any details we should know?

[Robert Morrow]

LBJ on 11/22/63

Gen. Godfrey McHugh had to slapped Lyndon Johnson to compose him on 11/22/63

But Johnson had no intention of leaving until he was sworn in as President- a needless formality that could easily have taken place at a later time, once everyone was out of harm's way. He had placed a call to Federal District Judge Sarah Hughes, and now everyone was forced to sit in the sweltering afternoon heat- the airconditioning could not be turned on until the engines were started- waiting for Judge Hughes to arrive.

Johnson, meantime, was cracking. General McHugh, who at first had no idea that LBJ was even on the plane, claimed that at one point he discovered Johnson cowering in the closet of the President's cabin. "They're going to kill us," he whimpered. "They're going to shoot down the plane, they're going to kill us all." It was then, McHugh said, that he actually got LBJ to "snap out of it" by slapping him. McHugh, in turn, was observed by others on the plane as dashing up and down the center aisle a half dozen times, wild-eyed and rambling.

Neither man was a picture of composure."

[Christopher Anderson, "Jackie After Jack," p. 11]

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

I now think Luciano was referring to Estes Kefauver, not LBJ. And I also think Luciano was making the whole thing up.

However, it does describe Lyndon Johnson and his behavior to a t.

Hey, BStrong, would you care to tell us about all your experiences "south" of the border and how you knew so many of those folks who wrote books about CIA drug smuggling.

Any details we should know?

You wouldn't believe it anyway.

And as I posted earlier, the only book on your reading list that is worth reading is The Politics of heroin in S.E.A. by McCoy.

[CORed]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

LBJ on 11/22/63

Gen. Godfrey McHugh had to slapped Lyndon Johnson to compose him on 11/22/63

But Johnson had no intention of leaving until he was sworn in as President- a needless formality that could easily have taken place at a later time, once everyone was out of harm's way. He had placed a call to Federal District Judge Sarah Hughes, and now everyone was forced to sit in the sweltering afternoon heat- the airconditioning could not be turned on until the engines were started- waiting for Judge Hughes to arrive.

Johnson, meantime, was cracking. General McHugh, who at first had no idea that LBJ was even on the plane, claimed that at one point he discovered Johnson cowering in the closet of the President's cabin. "They're going to kill us," he whimpered. "They're going to shoot down the plane, they're going to kill us all." It was then, McHugh said, that he actually got LBJ to "snap out of it" by slapping him. McHugh, in turn, was observed by others on the plane as dashing up and down the center aisle a half dozen times, wild-eyed and rambling.

Neither man was a picture of composure."

[Christopher Anderson, "Jackie After Jack," p. 11]

You know, I have no idea whether you story of LBJ getting into a panic after JFK's assassination is true or not (but considering the source I would put quite a bit of money on not), but, if your theory that LBJ was behind the JFK assassination is true, it doesn't make any sense at all that LBJ would be in a panic that "they" were going to kill him next. It looks like you've shot yourself in the foot in your effort to demonstrate how much inside dirt you know about.

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

But Johnson had no intention of leaving until he was sworn in as President- a needless formality that could easily have taken place at a later time, once everyone was out of harm's way. He had placed a call to Federal District Judge Sarah Hughes, and now everyone was forced to sit in the sweltering afternoon heat- the airconditioning could not be turned on until the engines were started- waiting for Judge Hughes to arrive.

Bull. My parents are retired secondary-school teachers, and they've told me about how upset their students were at the announcement of Kennedy's death. My mother in particular said that her students asked her if it meant the government was destroyed, and she had to reassure them that "the government would continue." Your source is a fool.

[Regnad Kcin]

In fairness, there is a story in a recent issue of The New Yorker, focusing on Mr. Johnson on the day of the assassination, both leading up to, and following the event. In the piece the author examines the oath-of-office issue from the perspective of the players at the time, including the office of the AG. Their conclusion: the oath is merely a ceremonial matter insofar as the Vice President becomes President immediately upon the latter's death.

Apparently Mr. Johnson's insistence on taking the oath as soon as possible had to do with, among several factors, a desire to clearly establish the fact in the eyes of the public, as well as his own sense of reality.

He may have become president, but speaking the words of the oath out loud may have served to firmly state that official reality.

ETA: Here is a link to the article, available for purchase.

[BaaBaa]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

I now think Luciano was referring to Estes Kefauver, not LBJ. And I also think Luciano was making the whole thing up.

However, it does describe Lyndon Johnson and his behavior to a t.

So another persons' behaviour demonstrates that LBJ was corrupt?

[Robert Morrow]

Originally Posted by CORed

You know, I have no idea whether you story of LBJ getting into a panic after JFK's assassination is true or not (but considering the source I would put quite a bit of money on not), but, if your theory that LBJ was behind the JFK assassination is true, it doesn't make any sense at all that LBJ would be in a panic that "they" were going to kill him next. It looks like you've shot yourself in the foot in your effort to demonstrate how much inside dirt you know about.

LBJ in a panic? Of course he knows he is not due to be shot. He is a psychopath "playacting" for his audience. Overselling, if you ask me.

Read this book and you will understand "Lyndon Johnson: Power Beyond Reason: The Mental Collapse of Lyndon Johnson"

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Beyond-R...4474391&sr=1-1

[Robert Morrow]

Originally Posted by BStrong

You wouldn't believe it anyway.

And as I posted earlier, the only book on your reading list that is worth reading is The Politics of heroin in S.E.A. by McCoy.

That is pretty lame *non-answer.*

Were you working with the US government in its operations against Nicaragua? Were you working for the US government, if so, in what capacity in the countries of El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama?

Were you military at the time? What did you do?

Have you personally met either Terry Reed, Barry Seal, Felix Rodriguez, Chip Tatum, Oliver North, William Barr (that is just a starter list)? If so what was your capacity in dealing with those folks?

[Robert Morrow]

Lyndon Johnson was far, far worse than he has been betrayed in his biographies; it doesn't mean he murdered JFK, but he did with the help of military intelligence.

http://thebeerbarrel.net/threads/lbj...a-bitch.12198/

Mack White:

I worked at the library for about a year. It was easy work, and interesting. I would cue up the tapes on a reel-to-reel player, put on a pair of headphones, and, working a foot pedal to rewind, pause and fast-forward, transcribe interviews that had been conducted with people who had known Johnson at different times of his life.

Most of the interviewees spoke glowingly of him. Even those who were critical of him—Kennedy staffers, most notably—went to some pains to soften their criticism and try to find something nice to say. And yet, despite everyone's best efforts, what emerged from this Citizen Kane-style composite of interviews was not pretty. It was not said in so many words—in fact, was left entirely unsaid—but nothing could obscure the picture: Lyndon Johnson was an overbearing, coarse, ruthless, sociopathic, low-life, power-mad monster.

Another bad habit of his was to dictate letters and conduct meetings while seated on the toilet. Also, if he happened to be near the White House swimming pool, he would suddenly strip naked, no matter who was present, and jump in. His apologists defend these behaviors as harmless eccentricities, a charming earthiness in his character. This earthiness, however, would also cause him to do things less charming, such as fondle women in front of other people, including his wife, Lady Bird.

And these weren't even his worst traits. He was also a bully. In one of the oral histories, I recall a reporter describing an incident in which a drunken Vice President Johnson followed him around at a Washington party all evening, angrily haranguing him about something he had written. The harangue only ended when the man fled the party.

And everyone had stories to tell about Johnson's famous techniques of persuasion: his big face only inches from his victim's, talking, begging, pleading, imploring, threatening, while his hands worked constantly, grabbing an arm, grabbing a lapel, jabbing the chest, grabbing and jabbing and moving ever closer with no regard for social distance, until the victim agreed to whatever Johnson wanted.

These are animal behaviors. Animals defecate in public, for instance, and mate in public, without the least concern for who might see. Also, alpha males of many species engage in various behaviors to assert their dominance. The ape showing its genitals, for instance, has its human counterpart in Johnson stripping in front of everyone for an impromptu skinny-dip. His haranguing the reporter or shouting and gesturing at the heckler also correspond to primate aggression displays. Apes also assert their dominance by mounting their fellow apes, a behavior different only by degree from Johnson's violation of social distance and grabbing and jabbing.

[Tomtomkent]

What a sentence: "it doesn't mean he murdered JFK, but he did..."

So it doesn't mean what it means.


Glad you cleared that right up.

[SpitfireIX]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

LBJ in a panic? Of course he knows he is not due to be shot. He is a psychopath "playacting" for his audience. Overselling, if you ask me.

No one asked you.

[Robert Morrow]

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

What a sentence: "it doesn't mean he murdered JFK, but he did..."

So it doesn't mean what it means.


Glad you cleared that right up.

Just because Lyndon Johnson was a psychopath, sociopath, pathological liar and alcoholic with his own personal hit man Malcolm Wallace and who hated John Kennedy and triply so Robert Kennedy *does not mean in and of itself* that LBJ murdered John Kennedy.

But he did and he had a lot of help from military intelligence. And LBJ certainly was a prime candidate for participation in it.

Here is a book that I consider a psychological "smoking gun" to the JFK assassination - "Power Beyond Reason: The Mental Collapse of Lyndon Johnson"

http://www.amazon.com/Power-Beyond-R...4528173&sr=1-1

[Robert Morrow]

JFK assassination researcher Charles Drago:

"Let me set the record straight: My friend and mentor George Michael Evica correctly understood and thoroughly documented LBJ's criminal role in the assassination conspiracy to be that of Facilitator. He properly identified LBJ as a FALSE Sponsor of the assassination.

Further, George Michael was among the vanguard of deep political scientists who at an early date understood and documented the fact that far from pulling deep political strings, the occupants of the Oval Office were in fact among the puppets whose strings were being pulled by forces who operated behind and above the painted backdrops of Cold War differences.

With the exception, that is, of John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

Hence the need for his removal."

[Robert Morrow]

Journalist Robert Novak married an aide of Lyndon Johnson. In summer, 1962, LBJ was telling Novak 1) the Kennedys were losing the Cold War 2) losing to conservatives in Congress and 3) that Robert Kennedy was planning to dump him from the 1964 Democratic ticket.

There is absolutely no question about point #3. RFK was out to politically destroy LBJ and fall 11/22/63 was within days of achieving that goal.

Robert Novak:

"After a Texas-style cookout, LBJ reclined, nearly prone, by the swimming pool. It was just the two of us drinking Scotch, and he spoke with a candor he never bestowed on me before or after. He felt the Kennedy administration was in serious trouble, losing the cold war to the Soviet Union and losing the legislative war to conservatives in Congress. He said that he had done everything the Kennedys had wanted, including foreign missions that only guaranteed him bad publicity.
He was repaid with insults and humiliation, especially from the attorney general. Johnson was sure Bobby Kennedy was plotting to dump him in 1964. "But I'm going to fool them," he said. "I'm going to pack it in after the term ends and go home to Texas." That would have been a huge scoop, but I knew Johnson was just blowing off steam.
As for going back to Texas, the political environment there was hardly more congenial for LBJ than it was in Washington. Johnson's protege, John B. Connally, had just won the Democratic nomination for governor of Texas, which still all but guaranteed election in Texas. As secretary of the Navy, Connally had been the highest Kennedy administration official bearing the LBJ brand.

But campaigning for governor, Connally removed the brand. With JFK and LBJ both unpopular in Texas, Connally ran against the administration he had just left, and won. Talking about Big John in that summer evening in 1962 led Johnson into self-pity. "John has turned my picture to the wall," LBJ told me. "You know I would never turn his picture to the wall.""

[Robert Novak, "The Prince of Darkness," p. 90-91]

[MSgtWeiss]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

GHW Bush certainly was a homosexual pederast for a long time. Google "Chip Tatum Pegasus" and you will learn about his terror campaign against Ross Perot in 1992. GHW Bush was heavy into the drug trade in the 1980's with CIA/Clintons/Oliver North.

The fact that you regard the deranged Chip Tatum as some kind of reliable source doesn't add much to your credibility.

Tatum's phony "documentation" was some of the worst, childishly-forged claptrap I've ever seen, which matched his "special ops" fairy tales pretty well. The DD-214 he provided pretty much put the lie to his exploits, but he was so inexperienced in the field he didn't even realize he impeached himself nicely with it, disproving his far-fetched POW claims.

No one who has been anywhere near the intel community or White House correspondence would believe that pathetic White House letter ostensibly signed by George Bush, giving Tatum exemption from responsibility for killing whomever seemed necessary. Oh yes, we just KNOW a President would stick his ass this far out.

One has to wonder at the amazing gullibility of conspiracy freaks that they actually swallow this crapola without reflex vomiting.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Robert Morrow

That is pretty lame *non-answer.*

Were you working with the US government in its operations against Nicaragua? Were you working for the US government, if so, in what capacity in the countries of El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Costa Rica, Panama?

Were you military at the time? What did you do?

Have you personally met either Terry Reed, Barry Seal, Felix Rodriguez, Chip Tatum, Oliver North, William Barr (that is just a starter list)? If so what was your capacity in dealing with those folks?

Am I under oath?

The major difference between your conspiracy monger reading list and McCoy's work is that McCoy actually spoke with individuals with bona fides, who knew the subject matter. He actually went where the evidence took him.

Your reading list is populated with writers who had theories or political angles and wrote whatever they felt proved their hypothesis - facts be damned. The only place the writers on your list went to is down the rabbit hole.

I would suggest that individuals interested in what went down in the south during this time study the failure of the Christic Institute lawsuit against individuals who they described as being a so-called "Secret Team" of government.

Pay particular attention to what happened when it was time to provide evidence, as in real evidence, not wishful thinking, heresay or rumors, or in some cases, flat out ******** stories from individuals who loved the sound of their own voice, talking to the gullible who loved the sound of their BS right up until they had to prove it in court.

That's the way it goes with grand conspiracies - Murrow's reading list and obsession with sexual misconduct included.