Bigsploitation: The Making and Selling of Bigfoot

[Castro]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

They'll sell close to a million units.

I just saw the webpage for the Olympic Project. Throughout the page of profiles, it's so backwards - your resume is 30 years of failure in the thing you are supposedly best at. His (Derek Randles) backpack 101 course is linked there. In reading it my eyes were getting wide, like I can't believe something like this exists. Eating in the wild. Okay, I'll try not to be a snob. But that was so fricking funny. To me anyway, it actually brought tears to my eyes.

At the same time it seems reasonable that maybe for people who grew up in a city and never had a chance to get out - they have a job now, a vehicle, the free time available so they're going to check out backpacking. And they fall into the hands of this guy, who is liable to tell them God knows what. See these eggs in the nest? Grizzly bear eggs.

Be careful with those eggs, they are fragile things.

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Great bear picture. They look like coastal brownies.

It's the most striking thing to see the carcass after you have skinned one up. They look so much like a human it's kind of creepy.

[parnassus]

Traditional academics generate knowledge/evidence, and traditional business people sell it in some form, be it books, devices, medicines, souvenirs, or other developed technology. Those demarcations are often somewhat blurred, of course. Grover Krantz was certainly a traditional academic. Those companies that sell garden bigfoot statues are certainly traditional business people.

My purpose in starting this thread was to highlight those who both generate bigfoot "evidence" (as a marketing strategy) and sell it. ie Bigfoot infomercials, for which I have coined the term "Bigfomercials."

We have mentioned a number of these operations, but not as yet discussed the "Sierra Sounds," a term for some recordings, and Bigfoot Sounds, an operation that follows the bigfoot convention trail, giving Bigfomericials I mean, talks, and marketing these recordings of purported bigfoot "speech", the first of which was obtained at a hunting camp in the Sierras many years ago. They also have a website.
There is now a spinoff (that's the word they use for new sitcom television shows that are based on a character from a previously successful sitcom series), a person who claimes that these and/or other recordings demonstrate that this "speech" constitutes an actual language.

I have reviewed the original material, and the original assessment by an academic, though not in as great a depth as RayG, who is trying to communicate with the BFFers at the moment on a thread over there.

There are three prominent points about this material (besides the obvious ones: no bigfoot, no peer reviewed paper):
1) common sense/life experience: hunting camp in the Sierra: bored guys trying to prank each other

2) speech/phonation analysis: the anatomy of the posterior pharynx/vocal cords is human, not ape
3) physical analysis of sound: the long vocal tract indicated by the analysis can be recreated by simply cupping the hands around the mouth.


Now I am sure that these folks who market this material as bigstuff are nice and honest. But I do think they are wrong. So does Ray G, and I would welcome any comments from him or anyone else on the subject.

[parnassus]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

It's the most striking thing to see the carcass after you have skinned one up. They look so much like a human it's kind of creepy.

I have made the same observation on black bears. That is one of the reasons I will never kill another one (other than self defense, obviously).

[Drewbot]

Originally Posted by parnassus

I have made the same observation on black bears. That is one of the reasons I will never kill another one (other than self defense, obviously).

See?! that is why it is difficult to shoot a Bigfoot. You get the heebie jeebies when you see one in your scope.

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Originally Posted by parnassus

I have made the same observation on black bears. That is one of the reasons I will never kill another one (other than self defense, obviously).

Yeah, I know how you feel. I felt the same way cutting up my ex wife. I don't like it. Never did, but on the other hand the've always amped the day up a notch. Going from zero to charging bears in an instant.

So I looked at that website on sierra sounds. They aren't trying to convince anyone about bigfoot, oh no. The evidence is overwhelming so they must exist. Seems to me the claim about the University of Wyoming study - that is potentially a case of constructive fraud. Universities don't like to see their name invoked to market a commercial product because it is tantamount to endorsement unless what is being said is exactly true.

You have to wonder what the study actually says (if it exists).

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Hahahaha - they slipped one by me. Read carefully what they said, edited for brevity..

Quote:

were not manufactured by...man

So the sounds WERE a man. Not manufactured by a man. So this is super slimy but not illegal. What a big surprise to see deceitful wording.

[RayG]

Originally Posted by parnassus

We have mentioned a number of these operations, but not as yet discussed the "Sierra Sounds," a term for some recordings, and Bigfoot Sounds, an operation that follows the bigfoot convention trail, giving Bigfomericials I mean, talks, and marketing these recordings of purported bigfoot "speech", the first of which was obtained at a hunting camp in the Sierras many years ago. They also have a website.
There is now a spinoff (that's the word they use for new sitcom television shows that are based on a character from a previously successful sitcom series), a person who claimes that these and/or other recordings demonstrate that this "speech" constitutes an actual language.

I have reviewed the original material, and the original assessment by an academic, though not in as great a depth as RayG, who is trying to communicate with the BFFers at the moment on a thread over there.

I don't have the qualifications to speak knowledgeably about Dr. Kirlin's findings, though I did point out he only published them in a bigfoot book and not in any scientific journals.

I do however, feel I have some training and qualifications when it comes to a certain 'crypto-linguist'. See that machine under my name to the left? It's no regular typewriter. That's a TSEC/KL-7, developed by NSA, codenamed Adonis, and something I used to encode and decode highly classified messages back in the 70's.

I also worked with a number of 'crypto-linguists' during my military career, and was even pressed into service for a few months as a crypto-linguist, probably in part because I had a good aptitude for language.

From the beginning (February 2009 at least), I questioned how a crypto-linguist would know that he's listening to sasquatch language. Crypto-linguists aren't trained to decipher unknown languages, they're trained to be fluent in one or two particular languages. They may be intercepting and recording foreign languages, but their language skills are similar to those of my daughter, who is bilingual. I also pointed out the difference between an actual linguist, and a crypto-linguist, but it hasn't made any difference to some people. (And no, a crypto-linguist is NOT a linguist who studies cryptids)

So when a bigfoot website calls a crypto-linguist a "linguistics expert" my skeptical antennae go up. And when people argue that he has the qualifications to determine whether an unknown language is being spoken by sasquatches, I'll call bs, no matter how many times they wave his resume around.

Quote:

There are three prominent points about this material (besides the obvious ones: no bigfoot, no peer reviewed paper):

And that right there is one of the biggest indications that we aren't dealing with real science. Kirlin never submitted his findings for peer review because he knew he hadn't actually proven anything. It was all speculation, nothing more than an unconfirmed, untested hypothesis.

Similarly, R. Scott Nelson knows he has nothing of interest outside of bigfootdom, so there's no way he'd take it to actual linguists for review. That's why he peddles his presentations to bigfooters, hungry for something, anything, that will make bigfoot ~sound~ plausible. (rim-shot)

Quote:

Now I am sure that these folks who market this material as bigstuff are nice and honest. But I do think they are wrong. So does Ray G, and I would welcome any comments from him or anyone else on the subject.

Thing is, I don't know if they're wrong, but I'm pretty certain a crypto-linguist isn't qualified to decipher an unknown language. That's exactly why the Navajo code-talkers were so effective in WWII, because it was unintelligible to anyone without extensive exposure and training in Navajo.

Now if Nelson is able to show that he can converse one-on-one with a sasquatch, then I will concede that I was mistaken, and apologize.

RayG

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Originally Posted by RayG

Crypto-linguists aren't trained to decipher unknown languages, they're trained to be fluent in one or two particular languages.

Same with DNA. The animal has to exist before there's any DNA analysis to be done, so all this running around doing DNA "testing" is absurd. Exactly backwards to the way it is done in reality.

This principle can be applied to every science. Maybe Merldumb can get a whole institute started in Idaho with divisions of bifoot psychology, dietary studies, anatomy, medicine, government, military science, women's studies, etc.

[parnassus]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

...
This principle can be applied to every science. Maybe Merldumb can get a whole institute started in Idaho with divisions of bifoot psychology, dietary studies, anatomy, medicine, government, military science, women's studies, etc.

This sounds like a list of threads at the BFF.
a quote from one post:

Quote:

.... movement/push recently to make BF sound like "Jack the Ripper" and the responsible party for a ton of missing persons including children, hikers, etc. etc. Yet there are accounts of humane treatment of injured/lost children, medically impaired individuals and the like.

[Drewbot]

http://www.wired.com/design/2012/07/bigfoot-on-ebay/

Guy is selling his commissioned Bigfoot statue for 80k

[Deacondark]

Originally Posted by Drewbot

http://www.wired.com/design/2012/07/bigfoot-on-ebay/

Guy is selling his commissioned Bigfoot statue for 80k

I actually saw that statue at the Iowa State Fair back in the late 70's? early 80's. I remember everyone thinking he was off his rocker because the spot where he claimed to have all of these encounters was in a pretty densely populated suburb of Des Moines. Some friends and I actually drove to the spot, and Bigfoot would have had to walk through miles of roadways and yards in order to get there. The statue is actually pretty cool to look at though.

[AttorneyTom]

Originally Posted by Deacondark

I actually saw that statue at the Iowa State Fair back in the late 70's? early 80's. I remember everyone thinking he was off his rocker because the spot where he claimed to have all of these encounters was in a pretty densely populated suburb of Des Moines. Some friends and I actually drove to the spot, and Bigfoot would have had to walk through miles of roadways and yards in order to get there. The statue is actually pretty cool to look at though.

I was going to say how would someone miss that out in a cornfield.. um.. for miles ? Perhaps it could hide in cemeteries from time to time... or behind the local Walmart/Cracker Barrell/Bob Evans/Wendy's/whatever it is they throw at every interstate off ramp to make most of the U.S. seem like one big hamster wheel ? A pet peeve of mine.

Then again.. corn has great nutritional value ?

You know .. now that I think about it BF is thriving on our Agricultural system.. and also all those dog and cat dishes left outside for Ralph and Mr. Whiskers !

[rockinkt]

^If we could somehow get Bigfoot to leave his poop for fertilizer in those very cornfields we would have no need for the evil machinations of the devils at Monsanto.
Bigfoot - the savior of the world!

[Deacondark]

Originally Posted by AttorneyTom

I was going to say how would someone miss that out in a cornfield.. um.. for miles ? Perhaps it could hide in cemeteries from time to time... or behind the local Walmart/Cracker Barrell/Bob Evans/Wendy's/whatever it is they throw at every interstate off ramp to make most of the U.S. seem like one big hamster wheel ? A pet peeve of mine.

Then again.. corn has great nutritional value ?

You know .. now that I think about it BF is thriving on our Agricultural system.. and also all those dog and cat dishes left outside for Ralph and Mr. Whiskers !

Yeah, even though Iowa is mostly farms, Des Moines, even at that time, ad a population of about 300,000. And he was right in the middle of the largest suburb. We laughed when we realized how ridiculous his claim was.

[William Parcher]

Originally Posted by AttorneyTom

... and also all those dog and cat dishes left outside for Ralph and Mr. Whiskers !

Bigfoot is a majestic creature and he doesn't eat those kinds of things.

[AttorneyTom]

Originally Posted by William Parcher

Bigfoot is a majestic creature and he doesn't eat those kinds of things.

Well.. But how does it keep such a clean and shiny coat ? Must be some vitamin supplements or something going on there. Something ??

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Originally Posted by Deacondark

Yeah, even though Iowa is mostly farms, Des Moines, even at that time, ad a population of about 300,000. And he was right in the middle of the largest suburb. We laughed when we realized how ridiculous his claim was.

I'm going to be a forthright skeptic here and say that it is very easy to ride the trains into suburban areas of Iowa. Any cluster of grain elevators is going to be on a railhead, and this will coincidentally be where bigfoot is feeding on grains.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

. . . all this running around doing DNA "testing" is absurd. Exactly backwards to the way it is done in reality.

I don't have a problem with it, ABP. We should be able to run DNA analysis on some kind of tissue sample and map the sample's genetic distance to known organisms in a cladogram or some other form of phylogenetic tree.

I modified the cladogram below (from doi: 10.1073/pnas.97.9.5003 PNAS April 25, 2000 vol. 97 no. 9 5003-5006 ) to provide a rough illustration of what I mean:

cladogram.jpg

If a DNA sample was obtained (and double- or triple-checked by independent labs as appropriate) that showed something like I've indicated in red, that would be quite interesting. If we really had a piece of something that was really close to modern human and really close to chimps - but was clearly NOT either of those organisms - then I would be very interested in that original piece of something.

Now when that original piece of something returns a human signature and people proclaim it to be proof of bigfoot, there's a combination of chicanery and victimization of those with logical deficits going on. But these DNA tests could reveal something unique, if there was a unique something out there that could be sampled. The process doesn't strike me as qualitatively different than what biologists do frequently regarding the identification of "hidden species" that are morphologically similar but genetically distinct.

[Drewbot]

I got more detailed than you did however.

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Originally Posted by The Shrike

I don't have a problem with it, ABP .

Of course not. I encourage you to get involved in funding them.

[The Shrike]

Originally Posted by AlaskaBushPilot

Of course not. I encourage you to get involved in funding them.

I hear Bill Munns is flush right now; I'll hit him up for some coin.

[AttorneyTom]

You guys with your fancy graphs and charts.

You should sell them on ebay and make a few bucks.. I dont know maybe $1.50 plus shipping and handling.

Perhaps you could throw in a letter of authenticity " This Authentic Graph ( or chart) is certified to be authentic and its depiction and graphic description of (insert term of choice)_______________". Just a thought ? Perhaps throw in a personal and signed letter also of how the graph and or chart was put together ? "Dear__________, thank you for your order and interest in Bigfoot".

[Billy Willard]

The Sasquatch Watch logo was designed by a professional team of designers, please move on to other lying rumors.

[Castro]

Originally Posted by Billy Willard

The Sasquatch Watch logo was designed by a professional team of designers, please move on to other lying rumors.

You should contact them for the design of your casts, Billy.

[mikeyx]

Originally Posted by Voodoosix

the part of bigfoot exploitation that kills me is people offering up copyrighted "evidence".

ive had a few run ins with critique of copyrighted photos and such, as in having videos removed from youtube and being threatened with lawsuits for making video analysis of this "evidence" since i havent purchased the "rights" to show the image (even though its clearly covered by fair use, i dont have the time or $ to fight a lawsuit). to me these folks are more concerned with making money than what the truth of the matter really is, they just dont want their cash cows exposed.

This.....................

[rockinkt]

Originally Posted by Billy Willard

The Sasquatch Watch logo was designed by a professional team of designers, please move on to other lying rumors.

A professional logo on your page does not cover-up the fact that your organization is just another run-of-the-mill group that embraces the latest in Bigfoot nonsense and peddles it to the rest of the world as factual.

[GT/CS]

Originally Posted by Billy Willard

The Sasquatch Watch logo was designed by a professional team of designers, please move on to other lying rumors.

Wow, that's shocking!
I hope they weren't paid much for that cheap looking thing.

[GT/CS]

That cast has such a curve to it I don't see how anyone could think the associated print could have come from a real foot.

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Originally Posted by Billy Willard

The Sasquatch Watch logo was designed by a professional team of designers, please move on to other lying rumors.

Oh hey, Billy. I went to your site and saw the most recent investigation in Chilhowie, Va. In the Skull's Gap area.

There's only 73 people per square mile in Smyth county so I can see why a bigfoot population would roam there without much notice. For twelve thousand years. It's only in the last 500 years that there have been detailed written records from the Spanish and English exploration/settlement.

When you're driving through Skull's Gap on Whitetop Road in your passenger car like all of you did - there isn't a house for a long ways. A bigfoot could be driving his car right behind you in that wilderness, and you wouldn's see him. I'm pretty awed by the courage of the two men, both of whom left the safety of their cars to look down this power line. Armed only with rifles against a creature with fur - they mustered up all the courage they could... and fled the scene.

Google earth shows incredible detail in that area, even individual trees. There are stretches of that main power line my two year old would take almost an hour to hike through.

[GT/CS]

What the hell?
http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...8&postcount=46

Who is ths guy?

[Castro]

Another footer going ape?

[Drewbot]

Billy, are you talking about your logo on Sasquatchwatch.org
http://www.sasquatchwatch.org/index.html

or are you talking about the logo on Sasqwatchwatch.com
http://www.sasqwatchwatch.com/

?? Please advise.

[GT/CS]

Not to speak for him but I'm pretty sure he's talking about his Virginia logo.

The hands and upper arms of that funky looking bigfoot crack me up every time I look at it.

[GT/CS]

Here is a bigfoot museum store
http://www.bigfootmuseum.com/bigfoot-store/index.php

[Drewbot]

I am getting the patch and putting it on my tin foil hat

[GT/CS]

The cast for sale isn't from a Wallace-stomper, is it?

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by GT/CS

The cast for sale isn't from a Wallace-stomper, is it?

It's definitely a fake print.

[GT/CS]

They're all fake prints so how is this one any more fake than any of the others?
Are you saying it isn't from the PGF trackway as claimed?

[AttorneyTom]

Originally Posted by GT/CS

They're all fake prints so how is this one any more fake than any of the others?
Are you saying it isn't from the PGF trackway as claimed?

Everything.. is fake about BF ! The footprints.. the hand smears... the licking of cars.. the crossing the road video... the testing submissions.. the filmings.. the photos.. the shows that purport that they exist... those that claim to have seen them with no evidence.. those that claim to see them with some sort of evidence that they fake ! The ebay blood, hair and stories ( that would be a good band btw..).

The only thing real about BF are the people that promote a lie and the zealouts that cannot figure that out.