Penn & Teller: Bull! (Creationism) Friday on Showtime

ViperVisor · 12th March 2003, 01:52 AM

Penn & Teller: Bull!

Creationism

The boys look at the evolution of “Creationism,” and travel to Georgia to listen in on a school-board debate on the topic.

Fri. Showtime 11:00

BEST EPISODE YET. I CAN'T WAIT

Dub · 12th March 2003, 04:16 AM

Damn looks like it will be good. Just hope they will soon air the P&T shows I've heard about in the UK sometime. Its ridiculous, we have a whole channel devoted to woo-woos (Living-TV) and nothing, not even a regular program, for the skeptics.

Filippo Lippi · 12th March 2003, 04:29 AM

Will a transcript be made available?

mindless · 12th March 2003, 04:35 AM

www.Infidelguy.com
has a download section which features the newer P&T shows, the quality of the video is very poor but you can still make it out, its better than the alternative of not seeing it at all.

Checkmite · 12th March 2003, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ViperVisor
BEST EPISODE YET. I CAN'T WAIT

A little premature, considering that nobody's seen the episode yet, don't you think?

Filippo...you'll want to get your hands on a video copy. Penn & Teller use a lot of sight gags, so you'll miss out on a lot with just a transcript.

Filippo Lippi · 12th March 2003, 06:05 AM

In the UK and, technically at least, very dumb.

Renfield · 12th March 2003, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ViperVisor
Penn & Teller: Bull!

Creationism

The boys look at the evolution of “Creationism,” and travel to Georgia to listen in on a school-board debate on the topic.

Fri. Showtime 11:00

BEST EPISODE YET. I CAN'T WAIT

It's killing me that I can't see this. Love Penn and Teller. Why can't this show be on HBO?

ViperVisor · 14th March 2003, 04:48 PM

bump

Ipecac · 14th March 2003, 08:32 PM

I don't get Showtime but I can hear it and watch it scrambled.

Good show. Made me intensely angry at the stupidity of creationists.

I am really glad someone is giving this issue the spotlight. Way to go Penn & Teller!

Baker · 14th March 2003, 08:42 PM

I enjoy Penn & Teller's humor but should you really be posting a link to an R rated show?

BrianT · 15th March 2003, 01:31 AM

The creationist show was rated PG-13.

15th March 2003, 07:44 AM

Two magicians yapping about Creationism.

OK.

What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic?

UnrepentantSinner · 15th March 2003, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
Two magicians yapping about Creationism.

OK.

What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic?

Already been done.
http://www.drdino.com
(and by myriad other creationists)

Ad Hom much Whodini? I thought you were above attacking the source of the information and not the information itself.

...guess I was wrong.

Ipecac · 15th March 2003, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
Two magicians yapping about Creationism.

OK.

What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic?

Since the show was riddled with experts talking about the science of evolution, your point is not well taken.

Lucifuge Rofocale · 15th March 2003, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
Two magicians yapping about Creationism.

OK.

What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic?

Maybe religious leaders yapping about science in schools?

Aoidoi · 15th March 2003, 11:34 AM

I thought the show was pretty good, though I was hoping for a bit more humor and a bit less outright abuse. I think they made the case quite well, though.

For those who missed it, the main point being made by P&T (at least, to me) was that Intelligent Design = Creationism != science. They focused on a school district in Georgia where ID was up for a vote in the school board. Most of the interviews were with people involved directly or somewhere in Georgia, though they had a couple national figures as well.

The woman they had on in several clips (can't remember name/occupation) made a great comment that I hadn't thought of. She mentioned that since Creationists take the Bible to be inerrant, the reason they try to poke holes in evolution is that they see evolution the same way... that is, if one part is false it all must be. (she said this much better than I'm relaying it) Basically, her argument is that creationists simply don't understand how science works (that is, self correcting rather than infallible)

Anyway, definately an interesting 30 min.

Peach Jr. · 15th March 2003, 02:17 PM

I thought this episode really was their best one yet. I can understand the tone of the show. It's a subject they're passionate about (science and religion), and it was pretty easy IMO to be a bit hostile about the "good Xtians" of Cobb Co.

We taped this episode, so I can show it to the littlest Peach when she's old enough to go to school.

BrianT · 16th March 2003, 02:13 AM

Quote:

The woman they had on in several clips....

Eugenie Scott, one of the best science defenders out there.

16th March 2003, 01:38 PM

----
Ad Hom much Whodini? I thought you were above attacking the source of the information and not the information itself.

...guess I was wrong.

----

How is what I said an ad hom?

The show is off topic, like Seigfreid and Roy doing a show on crop circles or something.

16th March 2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dub
Damn looks like it will be good. Just hope they will soon air the P&T shows I've heard about in the UK sometime. Its ridiculous, we have a whole channel devoted to woo-woos (Living-TV) and nothing, not even a regular program, for the skeptics.

Hey I'm getting cable for the first time ever come Wednesday and I'll be able to get that channel! But will I be able to get these P&T shows too? I hope so!

16th March 2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
----

The show is off topic, like Seigfreid and Roy doing a show on crop circles or something.

In what manner was the show 'off topic' ? Can you explain what you mean a bit more clearly?

16th March 2003, 06:32 PM

I think that is one of the dumbest things, people who do not like this show say, "they are magicians, not scientists." So because they are magicians, they can't be smart too? What a bunch of bull.

Ipecac · 16th March 2003, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
The show is off topic, like Seigfreid and Roy doing a show on crop circles or something.

Whodini, you would be entirely correct, IF, Penn and Teller were saying, "we're right, creationists are wrong, take our word for it." But they're not. During the show, they produced a half dozen scientists who ARE qualified to share the facts about evolution.

Penn and Teller are the hosts. They summarize and guide the discussion, but the meat is provided by the scientists.

So, once again, your point is not well taken.

16th March 2003, 09:20 PM

----
During the show, they produced a half dozen scientists who ARE qualified to share the facts about evolution.
----

How many creation scientists did they have on the show?

----
They summarize and guide the discussion, but the meat is provided by the scientists.
----

Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on.

UnrepentantSinner · 16th March 2003, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
----
During the show, they produced a half dozen scientists who ARE qualified to share the facts about evolution.
----

How many creation scientists did they have on the show?

----
They summarize and guide the discussion, but the meat is provided by the scientists.
----

Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on.

Oh please. The bias accusation, apart from being so tired it causes me to yawn in sympathy ever time I read it, is bogus in this case. The show has an agenda. That's well known. How does that invalidate the content of the show? It doesn't.

17th March 2003, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini

How many creation scientists did they have on the show?

How many what, now? Sounds a bit oxymoronic to me.

Quote:

Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on.

Well, fancy that. So far this series they've toasted John Edward (the great big douche), the homeopathy industry (love those snail facials), the whole UFO cult, feng shui grifters, and even mineral water. And you expected them to be sympathetic to creationists?

Ipecac · 17th March 2003, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
---How many creation scientists did they have on the show?

Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on.

They had several Creation "scientists" and they let them speak without interruption.

Do you imagine they came off well? No, but not because anything Penn and Teller did. They were spouting nonsense.

Once again, point not well taken. Maybe you should see the show before talking about it.

17th March 2003, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by J3K
I think that is one of the dumbest things, people who do not like this show say, "they are magicians, not scientists." So because they are magicians, they can't be smart too? What a bunch of bull.

I'm not saying that though.

I'm saying that it is entertainment, hosted by two magicians, who are known to be vocal against such things, on Showtime, etc. etc. Hardly a forum to get an unbiased view, but a great forum to get entertainment from.

17th March 2003, 08:10 AM

----
The show has an agenda. That's well known. How does that invalidate the content of the show? It doesn't.
----

It certainly biases the content of the show, now doesn't it.

How do you know you are getting a fair view?

So there were a dozen scientists, but only a couple creation scientists?

Lucifuge Rofocale · 17th March 2003, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini

I'm not saying that though.

I'm saying that it is entertainment, hosted by two magicians, who are known to be vocal against such things, on Showtime, etc. etc. Hardly a forum to get an unbiased view, but a great forum to get entertainment from.

The whole point is that they covered all grounds, with creation "scientists" and real scientist, so, apart of its recreative value, the show had also a not less important informative content. You can't reduce all to entertainment, as if they only presented a bunch of jokes about cretinism.

Ipecac · 17th March 2003, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
----It certainly biases the content of the show, now doesn't it.

How do you know you are getting a fair view?

So there were a dozen scientists, but only a couple creation scientists?

Come on, Whodini! You haven't even seen the show and you're just raising these canards.

I didn't keep count, but it looked like it was fairly close to one to one, creationist versus scientist. You're just making up a dozen versus a couple.

How do you EVER know you are getting a fair view? If it had Tom Brokaw as the host would you feel better?

Tricky · 17th March 2003, 08:50 AM

Considering the proportion of "creation scientists" to real scientists, they were lucky to find any at all.

Whodini, do you believe that "scientists" who don't believe in quantum mechanics ought to be given an equal podium with those who do?

Ipecac · 17th March 2003, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tricky
Considering the proportion of "creation scientists" to real scientists, they were lucky to find any at all.

I dunno. Considering that there are absolutely no qualifications for becoming a "Creation Scientist" it seems that anyone can be one.

17th March 2003, 11:01 AM

----
You haven't even seen the show and you're just raising these canards.
----

I saw the show. I'm raising the questions for public awareness.

----
I didn't keep count, but it looked like it was fairly close to one to one, creationist versus scientist.
----

uh huh.

Considering the title of the show is Bull*, oh I'm sure it was a fair treatment. LOL.

There are many scientists who believe in creation:

http://www.icr.org/creationscientists.html

just for a sampling.

Lucifuge Rofocale · 17th March 2003, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini

There are many scientists who believe in creation:

http://www.icr.org/creationscientists.html

just for a sampling.

1.- Is different to be a scientist who believes in creation to be a "creation scientist"

2.- Please spare us to present here the real titles , degrees of many of the "scientists" on that list!

Ossai · 17th March 2003, 11:21 AM

Whodini

Quote:

There are many scientists who believe in creation:

Ooooh, an apologist site. They never lie

. How many creation scientist are peer reviewed outside the creationist circles?

Ossai

17th March 2003, 11:33 AM

IF you and Lucy would read the faq on that page, they answer those common questions you've put forth.

Ipecac · 17th March 2003, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
----
You haven't even seen the show and you're just raising these canards.
----
I saw the show. I'm raising the questions for public awareness.

If you saw the show, then why the frack are you going about this thread in such a back*ss way? Sheesh. If you have critiques to make based on actual points you saw in the show, then make them.

This coy pretense is dishonest and not helpful to an actual discussion of the substance of the show.

Lucifuge Rofocale · 17th March 2003, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whodini
IF you and Lucy would read the faq on that page, they answer those common questions you've put forth.

Why do you think I haven't read the FAQ? Why do you think that it answer MY questions?

17th March 2003, 11:50 AM

----
1.- Is different to be a scientist who believes in creation to be a "creation scientist"
----

IF you did read the faq and contents of those pages, you'd haev read that a creation scientist is a scientist who believes in creation.

----
2.- Please spare us to present here the real titles , degrees of many of the "scientists" on that list!
----

Does that mean you don't want to see their degrees? Their publications in creation AND in secular journals?

C'mon now.

12th March 2003, 01:52 AM	#1
ViperVisor Student Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 44	Penn & Teller: Bull! (Creationism) Friday on Showtime Penn & Teller: Bull! Creationism The boys look at the evolution of “Creationism,” and travel to Georgia to listen in on a school-board debate on the topic. Fri. Showtime 11:00 BEST EPISODE YET. I CAN'T WAIT
ViperVisor Student Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 44	__________________ "There's no such thing as haunted houses just haunted people." - Joe Nickell

12th March 2003, 04:16 AM	#2
Dub Thinker Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 247	Damn looks like it will be good. Just hope they will soon air the P&T shows I've heard about in the UK sometime. Its ridiculous, we have a whole channel devoted to woo-woos (Living-TV) and nothing, not even a regular program, for the skeptics.
Dub Thinker Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 247	__________________ "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened." Sir Winston Churchill "Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins "Our ignorance is God; what we know is science." Robert Ingersoll "The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry." Richard Dawkins "Paranormal phenomena have a habit of going away whenever they are tested under rigorous conditions. This is why the $1 million reward of James Randi is safe." Richard Dawkins

12th March 2003, 04:29 AM	#3
Filippo Lippi Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nottingham Posts: 1,577	Will a transcript be made available?
	__________________ "There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." - Richard Dawkins

12th March 2003, 04:35 AM	#4
mindless Scholar Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 114	www.Infidelguy.com has a download section which features the newer P&T shows, the quality of the video is very poor but you can still make it out, its better than the alternative of not seeing it at all.
mindless Scholar Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 114	__________________ Gir: I need tacos! I need them or I will explode... that happens some times. Belief is not proof, your God does not exist.

12th March 2003, 06:02 AM	#5
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,896	Re: Penn & Teller: Bull! (Creationism) Friday on Showtime Quote: Originally posted by ViperVisor BEST EPISODE YET. I CAN'T WAIT A little premature, considering that nobody's seen the episode yet, don't you think? Filippo...you'll want to get your hands on a video copy. Penn & Teller use a lot of sight gags, so you'll miss out on a lot with just a transcript.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

12th March 2003, 06:05 AM	#6
Filippo Lippi Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Nottingham Posts: 1,577	In the UK and, technically at least, very dumb.
	__________________ "There is no refutation of Darwinian evolution in existence. If a refutation ever were to come about, it would come from a scientist, and not an idiot." - Richard Dawkins

12th March 2003, 11:29 AM	#7
Renfield Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,055	Re: Penn & Teller: Bull! (Creationism) Friday on Showtime Quote: Originally posted by ViperVisor Penn & Teller: Bull! Creationism The boys look at the evolution of “Creationism,” and travel to Georgia to listen in on a school-board debate on the topic. Fri. Showtime 11:00 BEST EPISODE YET. I CAN'T WAIT It's killing me that I can't see this. Love Penn and Teller. Why can't this show be on HBO?
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14th March 2003, 04:48 PM	#8
ViperVisor Student Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 44	bump
ViperVisor Student Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 44	__________________ "There's no such thing as haunted houses just haunted people." - Joe Nickell

14th March 2003, 08:32 PM	#9
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	I don't get Showtime but I can hear it and watch it scrambled. Good show. Made me intensely angry at the stupidity of creationists. I am really glad someone is giving this issue the spotlight. Way to go Penn & Teller!
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852

14th March 2003, 08:42 PM	#10
Baker Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,121	I enjoy Penn & Teller's humor but should you really be posting a link to an R rated show?
Baker Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,121

15th March 2003, 01:31 AM	#11
BrianT Bitter Old Coot Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Georgetown, TX Posts: 111	The creationist show was rated PG-13.
	__________________ "I hate my interests." -Ghost World "Reality is a sandwich I did not order."-Zippy the Pinhead "What a stupid world."-Calvin

15th March 2003, 07:44 AM	#12
Guest Posts: n/a	Two magicians yapping about Creationism. OK. What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic?
Guest Posts: n/a

15th March 2003, 07:47 AM	#13
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,363	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini Two magicians yapping about Creationism. OK. What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic? Already been done. http://www.drdino.com (and by myriad other creationists) Ad Hom much Whodini? I thought you were above attacking the source of the information and not the information itself. ...guess I was wrong.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

15th March 2003, 08:06 AM	#14
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini Two magicians yapping about Creationism. OK. What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic? Since the show was riddled with experts talking about the science of evolution, your point is not well taken.
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852

15th March 2003, 08:13 AM	#15
Lucifuge Rofocale Prime Minister of Hell Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 968	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini Two magicians yapping about Creationism. OK. What will we have next, two Creationists yapping about magic? Maybe religious leaders yapping about science in schools?
	__________________ AGW is the Democrat's war on terror. The "precautionary principle" is a favourite Greenie idea -- but isn't that what George Bush was doing when he invaded Iraq? Wasn't that a precaution against Saddam getting or having any WMDs? So Greenies all agree with the Iraq intervention? If not, why not? -John Ray Help Us to find Waldo! http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1999#comments

15th March 2003, 11:34 AM	#16
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,418	I thought the show was pretty good, though I was hoping for a bit more humor and a bit less outright abuse. I think they made the case quite well, though. For those who missed it, the main point being made by P&T (at least, to me) was that Intelligent Design = Creationism != science. They focused on a school district in Georgia where ID was up for a vote in the school board. Most of the interviews were with people involved directly or somewhere in Georgia, though they had a couple national figures as well. The woman they had on in several clips (can't remember name/occupation) made a great comment that I hadn't thought of. She mentioned that since Creationists take the Bible to be inerrant, the reason they try to poke holes in evolution is that they see evolution the same way... that is, if one part is false it all must be. (she said this much better than I'm relaying it) Basically, her argument is that creationists simply don't understand how science works (that is, self correcting rather than infallible) Anyway, definately an interesting 30 min.
Aoidoi Illuminator Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 4,418	__________________ "The priests used to say that faith can move mountains, and nobody believed them. Today the scientists say that they can level mountains, and nobody doubts them." - Joseph Campbell We cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. —Edward R. Murrow

15th March 2003, 02:17 PM	#17
Peach Jr. Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 258	I thought this episode really was their best one yet. I can understand the tone of the show. It's a subject they're passionate about (science and religion), and it was pretty easy IMO to be a bit hostile about the "good Xtians" of Cobb Co. We taped this episode, so I can show it to the littlest Peach when she's old enough to go to school.
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16th March 2003, 02:13 AM	#18
BrianT Bitter Old Coot Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Georgetown, TX Posts: 111	Quote: The woman they had on in several clips.... Eugenie Scott, one of the best science defenders out there.
	__________________ "I hate my interests." -Ghost World "Reality is a sandwich I did not order."-Zippy the Pinhead "What a stupid world."-Calvin

16th March 2003, 01:38 PM	#19
Guest Posts: n/a	---- Ad Hom much Whodini? I thought you were above attacking the source of the information and not the information itself. ...guess I was wrong. ---- How is what I said an ad hom? The show is off topic, like Seigfreid and Roy doing a show on crop circles or something.
Guest Posts: n/a

16th March 2003, 01:55 PM	#20
Interesting Ian Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Dub Damn looks like it will be good. Just hope they will soon air the P&T shows I've heard about in the UK sometime. Its ridiculous, we have a whole channel devoted to woo-woos (Living-TV) and nothing, not even a regular program, for the skeptics. Hey I'm getting cable for the first time ever come Wednesday and I'll be able to get that channel! But will I be able to get these P&T shows too? I hope so!
Interesting Ian Guest Posts: n/a

16th March 2003, 02:33 PM	#21
Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini ---- The show is off topic, like Seigfreid and Roy doing a show on crop circles or something. In what manner was the show 'off topic' ? Can you explain what you mean a bit more clearly?
Guest Posts: n/a

16th March 2003, 06:32 PM	#22
J3K Guest Posts: n/a	I think that is one of the dumbest things, people who do not like this show say, "they are magicians, not scientists." So because they are magicians, they can't be smart too? What a bunch of bull.
J3K Guest Posts: n/a

16th March 2003, 07:08 PM	#23
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini The show is off topic, like Seigfreid and Roy doing a show on crop circles or something. Whodini, you would be entirely correct, IF, Penn and Teller were saying, "we're right, creationists are wrong, take our word for it." But they're not. During the show, they produced a half dozen scientists who ARE qualified to share the facts about evolution. Penn and Teller are the hosts. They summarize and guide the discussion, but the meat is provided by the scientists. So, once again, your point is not well taken.
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	__________________ www.taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com

16th March 2003, 09:20 PM	#24
Guest Posts: n/a	---- During the show, they produced a half dozen scientists who ARE qualified to share the facts about evolution. ---- How many creation scientists did they have on the show? ---- They summarize and guide the discussion, but the meat is provided by the scientists. ---- Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on.
Guest Posts: n/a

16th March 2003, 10:06 PM	#25
UnrepentantSinner A post by Alan Smithee Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: USAian is not a word Posts: 26,363	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini ---- During the show, they produced a half dozen scientists who ARE qualified to share the facts about evolution. ---- How many creation scientists did they have on the show? ---- They summarize and guide the discussion, but the meat is provided by the scientists. ---- Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on. Oh please. The bias accusation, apart from being so tired it causes me to yawn in sympathy ever time I read it, is bogus in this case. The show has an agenda. That's well known. How does that invalidate the content of the show? It doesn't.
	__________________ I am an American citizen who is part of American society and briefly served in the American armed forces. I use American dollars and pay taxes that support the American government. And yes, despite the editorial decison to change American politics to the nonsensical "USA politics" subforum, I follow and comment on American politics.

17th March 2003, 01:23 AM	#26
phobos Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini How many creation scientists did they have on the show? How many what, now? Sounds a bit oxymoronic to me. Quote: Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on. Well, fancy that. So far this series they've toasted John Edward (the great big douche), the homeopathy industry (love those snail facials), the whole UFO cult, feng shui grifters, and even mineral water. And you expected them to be sympathetic to creationists?
phobos Guest Posts: n/a

17th March 2003, 06:36 AM	#27
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini ---How many creation scientists did they have on the show? Yeah, and gee, I wonder what side Penn and Teller are situated on. They had several Creation "scientists" and they let them speak without interruption. Do you imagine they came off well? No, but not because anything Penn and Teller did. They were spouting nonsense. Once again, point not well taken. Maybe you should see the show before talking about it.
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	__________________ www.taste-of-ipecac.blogspot.com

17th March 2003, 08:08 AM	#28
Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by J3K I think that is one of the dumbest things, people who do not like this show say, "they are magicians, not scientists." So because they are magicians, they can't be smart too? What a bunch of bull. I'm not saying that though. I'm saying that it is entertainment, hosted by two magicians, who are known to be vocal against such things, on Showtime, etc. etc. Hardly a forum to get an unbiased view, but a great forum to get entertainment from.
Guest Posts: n/a

17th March 2003, 08:10 AM	#29
Guest Posts: n/a	---- The show has an agenda. That's well known. How does that invalidate the content of the show? It doesn't. ---- It certainly biases the content of the show, now doesn't it. How do you know you are getting a fair view? So there were a dozen scientists, but only a couple creation scientists?
Guest Posts: n/a

17th March 2003, 08:12 AM	#30
Lucifuge Rofocale Prime Minister of Hell Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 968	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini I'm not saying that though. I'm saying that it is entertainment, hosted by two magicians, who are known to be vocal against such things, on Showtime, etc. etc. Hardly a forum to get an unbiased view, but a great forum to get entertainment from. The whole point is that they covered all grounds, with creation "scientists" and real scientist, so, apart of its recreative value, the show had also a not less important informative content. You can't reduce all to entertainment, as if they only presented a bunch of jokes about cretinism.
	__________________ AGW is the Democrat's war on terror. The "precautionary principle" is a favourite Greenie idea -- but isn't that what George Bush was doing when he invaded Iraq? Wasn't that a precaution against Saddam getting or having any WMDs? So Greenies all agree with the Iraq intervention? If not, why not? -John Ray Help Us to find Waldo! http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1999#comments

17th March 2003, 08:42 AM	#31
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini ----It certainly biases the content of the show, now doesn't it. How do you know you are getting a fair view? So there were a dozen scientists, but only a couple creation scientists? Come on, Whodini! You haven't even seen the show and you're just raising these canards. I didn't keep count, but it looked like it was fairly close to one to one, creationist versus scientist. You're just making up a dozen versus a couple. How do you EVER know you are getting a fair view? If it had Tom Brokaw as the host would you feel better?
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17th March 2003, 08:50 AM	#32
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,371	Considering the proportion of "creation scientists" to real scientists, they were lucky to find any at all. Whodini, do you believe that "scientists" who don't believe in quantum mechanics ought to be given an equal podium with those who do?

17th March 2003, 10:18 AM	#33
Ipecac Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,852	Quote: Originally posted by Tricky Considering the proportion of "creation scientists" to real scientists, they were lucky to find any at all. I dunno. Considering that there are absolutely no qualifications for becoming a "Creation Scientist" it seems that anyone can be one.
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17th March 2003, 11:01 AM	#34
Guest Posts: n/a	---- You haven't even seen the show and you're just raising these canards. ---- I saw the show. I'm raising the questions for public awareness. ---- I didn't keep count, but it looked like it was fairly close to one to one, creationist versus scientist. ---- uh huh. Considering the title of the show is Bull*, oh I'm sure it was a fair treatment. LOL. There are many scientists who believe in creation: http://www.icr.org/creationscientists.html just for a sampling.
Guest Posts: n/a

17th March 2003, 11:12 AM	#35
Lucifuge Rofocale Prime Minister of Hell Join Date: Dec 2001 Posts: 968	Quote: Originally posted by Whodini There are many scientists who believe in creation: http://www.icr.org/creationscientists.html just for a sampling. 1.- Is different to be a scientist who believes in creation to be a "creation scientist" 2.- Please spare us to present here the real titles , degrees of many of the "scientists" on that list!
	__________________ AGW is the Democrat's war on terror. The "precautionary principle" is a favourite Greenie idea -- but isn't that what George Bush was doing when he invaded Iraq? Wasn't that a precaution against Saddam getting or having any WMDs? So Greenies all agree with the Iraq intervention? If not, why not? -John Ray Help Us to find Waldo! http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=1999#comments