Was Osama bin Laden a caveman mastermind? Yes or no? - Page 6

MarkLindeman · 30th March 2012, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Two questions will solve this problem...

1. Did Osama bin Laden dwell, reside, or hide in caves at any time as the leader of Al-Qaeda?

2. Did Osama bin Laden ever take part in the planning, directing, or approving of any Al-Qaeda terrorist plots?

[...]Therefore, your 9/11 conspiracy theory hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a caveman mastermind super-villain, which sounds like something right out of a bad Hollywood movie.

Hey, I'm rarely afraid to point out the obvious: calling someone a "caveman mastermind super-villain" is a lot more laugh-out-loud than believing that someone both participated in terrorist plots and hid in caves.

Axxman300 · 30th March 2012, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Name one government agency, from "various countries all over the world", that has the ability and authority to fully investigate covert CIA operations. Which agency do you think has the ability to make a CIA agent answer questions pertaining to U.S. national security?

Ha, ha, ha...

The FBI.

In fact one of the reasons the CIA dropped the ball on Al Qaeda was because they were gunshy due to a massive FBI investigation in the late 1990s.

Axxman300 · 30th March 2012, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus

I don't understand why everyone's even giving this guy the time of day, let alone "engaging" him. Ignoring the stupidly irrelevant hairsplitting over whether OBL utilized caves at some point, the actual false premise was that he was the mastermind of 9/11. He was not. Remember: It was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who actually conceived the 9/11 attacks, not Osama. Bin Laden was the godfather figure behind the organization, and he was the one who gave his blessing to the attack and dictated some of the operational details (such as assignment of people to the plot) but he was not the "mastermind". If you want an operational analogy, Franklin D. Roosevelt was not the "mastermind" behind the Normandy landings, Eisenhower and his subordinates were.

Anyway, the fundamental premise isn't even correct here, and no, it's not anything to do with caves. It's the one that shows the fundamental ignorance of the truther behind the OP: What Bin Laden's actual role was. If he can't even get a most basic, fundamental fact right, why should anyone here engage him? He's not even done the most basic research into the topic; he should be ignored until he accomplishes that.

You are correct Sir!

Bin Laden took credit for many things he had no direct part in. The best example is his statement Al Qaeda shot down the two Blackhawks on the 10/3/93 Mogadishu raid. They may have trained the locals to dig holes in the ground to help with the backblast from the RPGs but that was it. Bin Laden was nothing more than a loudmouthed hick.

SpringHallConvert · 30th March 2012, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Axxman300

The FBI.

In fact one of the reasons the CIA dropped the ball on Al Qaeda was because they were gunshy due to a massive FBI investigation in the late 1990s.

Are you confident that the government will investigate itself thoroughly and credibly?

abaddon · 30th March 2012, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

There seems to be much objection coming from government truther conspiracy theorists to my referring to Osama bin Laden as a "caveman mastermind".

Again, which government?

Craig4 · 30th March 2012, 11:50 PM

I'm still waiting for evidence that he ever lived in a cave.

alienentity · 31st March 2012, 01:17 AM

There's no real evidence that OBL ever existed. Only official government statements and MSM stories. None of those are credible. Ergo, OBL did not exist, so could not have been a caveman of any kind.

These issues work against truthers as easily as for them. They render truther positions moot, as we can see. Nothing is credible, therefore nothing can exist except in propaganda. That's the truther credo distilled in pure form...

Dog Town · 31st March 2012, 02:10 AM

On the run, bin Laden lived in 5 houses

Quote:

ISLAMABAD (AP) — Osama bin Laden lived in five safe houses while on the run in Pakistan and fathered four children — two of them born in government hospitals, his youngest widow has told investigators.

The details of bin Laden's life as a fugitive in Pakistan are contained in the interrogation report of Amal Ahmed Abdel-Fatah al-Sada, bin Laden's 30-year-old Yemeni widow. They appear to raise fresh questions over how bin Laden was able to remain undetected for so long in Pakistan after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, despite being the subject of a massive international manhunt.

Details from the report were first published by the Pakistani newspaper Dawn.

http://news.yahoo.com/run-bin-laden-...131236231.html

Oystein · 31st March 2012, 03:29 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Two questions will solve this problem...

1. Did Osama bin Laden dwell, reside, or hide in caves at any time as the leader of Al-Qaeda?

2. Did Osama bin Laden ever take part in the planning, directing, or approving of any Al-Qaeda terrorist plots?

According to the mainstream media sources you guys regard as the holy gospel, the answer to both questions is "yes". Therefore, your 9/11 conspiracy theory hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a caveman mastermind super-villain, which sounds like something right out of a bad Hollywood movie.

This is what too much TV does to the human brain.

1. Does Barack Obama ever take a shower at any time as the President of the USA?

2. Does Obama ever take part in leading the USA?

If you say "yes" to both, your view of US politics hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a naked wet blackman.

Hmmm I thought this game would be more fun, but it is tooo stupid to be funny

Jackanory · 31st March 2012, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dog Town

On the run, bin Laden lived in 5 houseshttp://news.yahoo.com/run-bin-laden-...131236231.html

Yep. He was a busy man. Even had time to father 4 kids whilst on the run. Not bad for a ghost or a man on ice

Lived with 3 wives in Kandahar in 2000.
Was in Tora Bora in 2001. His 3rd wife confirms she was moved to Karachi.
Amal confirms she lived with him in Swat Valley in Peshawar in 2002.
Sowed his seed whilst in Haripur in 2003/2004 and had two kids.
Moved to Abbotobad with all his wives and had two more kids.

dafydd · 31st March 2012, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by Jackanory

Yep. He was a busy man. Even had time to father 4 kids whilst on the run. Not bad for a ghost or a man on ice

Lived with 3 wives in Kandahar in 2000.
Was in Tora Bora in 2001. His 3rd wife confirms she was moved to Karachi.
Amal confirms she lived with him in Swat Valley in Peshawar in 2002.
Sowed his seed whilst in Haripur in 2003/2004 and had two kids.
Moved to Abbotobad with all his wives and had two more kids.

Where do I apply to become a caveman?

jaydeehess · 31st March 2012, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Two questions will solve this problem...

1. Did Osama bin Laden dwell, reside, or hide in caves at any time as the leader of Al-Qaeda?

2. Did Osama bin Laden ever take part in the planning, directing, or approving of any Al-Qaeda terrorist plots?

According to the mainstream media sources you guys regard as the holy gospel, the answer to both questions is "yes". Therefore, your 9/11 conspiracy theory hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a caveman mastermind super-villain, which sounds like something right out of a bad Hollywood movie.

This is what too much TV does to the human brain.

Utterly ridiculous.

So tell me SCH, what plots did OBL 'mastermind (using you own definition of either "planning, directing, or approving" ) during the time he was forced to retreat to Tora Bora?

What mainstream media outlet ever referred to OBL as the 'caveman mastermind' of AQ, Or perhaps that is an invention of yours?
The term is a caricature, a cartoon invention not of any MSM, but of your imagination.

Teddy Roosevelt lived in tents at one time. Is he the tent dwelling President of the USA?

What about George Washington? Was he the "rowboat mastermind of the American Revolution" given that he was forced to retreat across a river?

Yes, "caveman mastermind" is laughable, more so because you are seriously trying to use the term. It is YOU who is caricaturing the man,, it is YOU who is attempting to make him a B-movie villain, not us, SHC.

jaydeehess · 31st March 2012, 07:42 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Are you confident that the government will investigate itself thoroughly and credibly?

Are you confident that gov'ts which are decidely unfriendly to the USA have not discovered that OBL and AQ are phantoms yet have not shouted this to the world?

Prove it!

Jackanory · 31st March 2012, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Are you confident that gov'ts which are decidely unfriendly to the USA have not discovered that OBL and AQ are phantoms yet have not shouted this to the world?

Prove it!

We live in the real world. Jason Bourne & James Bond aside, unfortunately we aren’t truly privy the workings of the intelligence community. Nor should we be.

We know that in reality we can't expect them to give the world updates on past, current and future intelligence scenarios. Imagine if the CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad etc kept the truthers updated on a daily basis. Yet that is what they want.

I'll give them a heads up right now. Keep an eye on what’s coming from Pakistan & Yemen. Keep an eye on OBL's remaining family, wives, and kids. They have plenty to say about the ghost on ice.

Will it convince them? Who cares!

carlitos · 31st March 2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Oystein

1. Does Barack Obama ever take a shower at any time as the President of the USA?

2. Does Obama ever take part in leading the USA?

If you say "yes" to both, your view of US politics hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a naked wet blackman.

Hmmm I thought this game would be more fun, but it is tooo stupid to be funny

No, it's not funny, but you made your point well.

jaydeehess · 31st March 2012, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Jackanory

We live in the real world. Jason Bourne & James Bond aside, unfortunately we aren’t truly privy the workings of the intelligence community. Nor should we be.

We know that in reality we can't expect them to give the world updates on past, current and future intelligence scenarios. Imagine if the CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad etc kept the truthers updated on a daily basis. Yet that is what they want.

I'll give them a heads up right now. Keep an eye on what’s coming from Pakistan & Yemen. Keep an eye on OBL's remaining family, wives, and kids. They have plenty to say about the ghost on ice.

Will it convince them? Who cares!

My prediction. They will not care. It will simply be more proof that TPTB are continueing to supply misinformation to the MSM that OBL was real and that AQ was real.

It is either laughable or tragic that people would hold to these delusions that OBL and AQ were fake

jaydeehess · 31st March 2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Are you confident that gov'ts which are decidely unfriendly to the USA have not discovered that OBL and AQ are phantoms yet have not shouted this to the world?

Prove it!

Another approach

Are you confident that a gov't unfriendly to the USA has not planted a fiction on the internet that OBL and AQ are phantoms and blamed the USA and Israel for their creation?

Prove it?

Jackanory · 31st March 2012, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

Another approach

Are you confident that a gov't unfriendly to the USA has not planted a fiction on the internet that OBL and AQ are phantoms and blamed the USA and Israel for their creation?

Prove it?

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a prime example. 911 was an inside jobby to sell small arms. Want's the UN to ‘investigate 911’. He is known to frequent conspiracy sites.........and he hates the jews.

Gadaffi.

Mugabe.

Bashar al-Assad being the ex head of head of the Syrian Computer Society is also known to have a few wacky ideas.

All known to use the media/internet to whip up a conspiracy or two.

Oz1976 · 1st April 2012, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Jackanory

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a prime example. 911 was an inside jobby to sell small arms. Want's the UN to ‘investigate 911’. He is known to frequent conspiracy sites.........and he hates the jews.

Gadaffi.

Mugabe.

Bashar al-Assad being the ex head of head of the Syrian Computer Society is also known to have a few wacky ideas.

All known to use the media/internet to whip up a conspiracy or two.

Gadaffi and al-Assad have claimed though that the uprisings in their countries were the result of al-Qaeda infiltrators...so there we have two terrorist despots confirming the existence of al-Qaeda as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uf0doPKyYg (Gaddafi claiming al-Qaeda responsibility)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...-assad-syria12

1337m4n · 3rd April 2012, 12:46 PM

So basically, you're admitting that you want to use terminology that you concede is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, for the sole purpose of making the other side's argument *sound* sillier than it actually is. Isn't that hypocritical given that you claim to be opposed to the use of propaganda tactics?

Would I be wrong to assume that, at some point in your life, you have set foot inside a forest? Or climbed a tree, like maybe when you were a child? Therefore I would be technically correct to refer to you as a "tree-dweller".

So be it. For as long as you insist on referring to OBL as a "caveman", I am going to refer to you and all Truthers everywhere as "tree-dwellers". Because you technically are, right?

1337m4n · 3rd April 2012, 12:48 PM

9/11 Truth Movement: A bunch of tree-dwellers who think they know better than actual scientists and engineers.

SpringHallConvert · 3rd April 2012, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by 1337m4n

9/11 Truth Movement: A bunch of tree-dwellers who think they know better than actual scientists and engineers.

What good are scientists and engineers going to do you in if Al-Qaeda was covertly funded from a CIA black budget?

Answer: Not much.

alienentity · 3rd April 2012, 01:29 PM

AQ was funded by the Saudis. QED

SpringHallConvert · 3rd April 2012, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

AQ was funded by the Saudis. QED

Were they? And who were the Saudis funded by? Were the Saudis put in place as a go-between? Who gave them sanction to fund Al-Qaeda?

jaydeehess · 3rd April 2012, 02:23 PM

one of the world's countries most flush with cash needs another to fund anything?

jaydeehess · 3rd April 2012, 02:29 PM

I still hold that China is responsible for the entire 911 conspiracy meme.

I further assert that SHC is an operative of this Chinese program.

Come on comrade tell us the truth, what is your rank ?

alienentity · 3rd April 2012, 02:30 PM

Al Qaeda funding:
'a complex fundraising network fueled by financial facilitators and diverted Islamic charity donations. Prior to September 11, the financial facilitators raised money from Gulf country donors, particularly Saudi Arabia. They primarily relied on imams at mosques who diverted compulsory charitable donations known as zakat to al Qaeda. They also received money from individuals in corrupted charities. Al Qaeda operatives infiltrated large charitable organizations with loose external oversight or controlled smaller ones. They used these employment positions to gain access to the organization's bank accounts.'

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...da-funding.htm

'The CIA estimated that prior to September 11, al Qaeda spent $30 million dollars annually, '

Please prove that Al Qaeda was NOT funded in this way. Provide sources for the info.

jaydeehess · 3rd April 2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

What good are scientists and engineers going to do you in if Al-Qaeda was covertly funded from a CIA black budget?

Answer: Not much.

what does any of that matter if The Matrix was actually a docuementary?

alienentity · 3rd April 2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

what does any of that matter if The Matrix was actually a docuementary?

Prove that we are not living inside the matrix.

plague311 · 3rd April 2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Were they? And who were the Saudis funded by? Were the Saudis put in place as a go-between? Who gave them sanction to fund Al-Qaeda?

If a train leaves for Chicago with a cargo car, and a smoking car what time will it reach Cleveland?

SpringHallConvert · 3rd April 2012, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

one of the world's countries most flush with cash needs another to fund anything?

Nice straw man.

Who said anything about "need"?

SpringHallConvert · 3rd April 2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

Al Qaeda funding:
'a complex fundraising network fueled by financial facilitators and diverted Islamic charity donations. Prior to September 11, the financial facilitators raised money from Gulf country donors, particularly Saudi Arabia. They primarily relied on imams at mosques who diverted compulsory charitable donations known as zakat to al Qaeda. They also received money from individuals in corrupted charities. Al Qaeda operatives infiltrated large charitable organizations with loose external oversight or controlled smaller ones. They used these employment positions to gain access to the organization's bank accounts.'

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...da-funding.htm

'The CIA estimated that prior to September 11, al Qaeda spent $30 million dollars annually, '

Please prove that Al Qaeda was NOT funded in this way. Provide sources for the info.

Please prove that they were. Prove that 100% of their funding came from non-U.S./Israeli government sources.

Justin39640 · 3rd April 2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Were they? And who were the Saudis funded by? Were the Saudis put in place as a go-between? Who gave them sanction to fund Al-Qaeda?

Exxon, Hess, Mobil, etc...

jaydeehess · 3rd April 2012, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by alienentity

Prove that we are not living inside the matrix.

I could better prove we are.
SHC behaves more like a program, a 'bot' if you will, than what we would expect from a human

SpringHallConvert · 3rd April 2012, 02:53 PM

It's funny watching government truthers operate. Ask them to prove why they believe what they believe, and when they can't, they start talking about the Matrix, Star Wars, and other movies.

It's like, "believe what we believe right now or we'll invoke Hollywood! That will teach ya!"

DGM · 3rd April 2012, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

It's funny watching government truthers operate. Ask them to prove why they believe what they believe, and when they can't, they start talking about the Matrix, Star Wars, and other movies.

It's like, "believe what we believe right now or we'll invoke Hollywood! That will teach ya!"

Who are you talking too? If we're the "government truthers", it only seem to reason you're talking to yourself.

Kind of creepy

.

SpringHallConvert · 3rd April 2012, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by DGM

...it only seem to reason...

Now how about in English?

DGM · 3rd April 2012, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Now how about in English?

What didn't you understand?

jaydeehess · 3rd April 2012, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Nice straw man.

Who said anything about "need"?

If that was a problem then perhaps you should have used more words in your post on the subject.

So, some other entity may have funded the Saudis who in turn used those funds for the 911 attacks in which many of the perpetrators were to be Saudis, but which were actually designed to garner American resolve to invade Afghanistan and Iraq?

Yes, I know you did not say anything about those two countries but perhaps you'd care to notice the 'may have'. Rather than deflect the question perhaps you'd care to address it.

alienentity · 3rd April 2012, 03:38 PM

Until it is moved to this forum, take a look at my parallel thread which examines the important question 'Are 9/11 Truthers Tree-Dwelling Conspiracists?'
The thread also states clearly the fact that such 9/11 Truthers are vocal apologists for the Al Qaeda terror network and Osama Bin Laden.

Have fun!

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=233487

30th March 2012, 09:26 PM	#202
Axxman300 Scholar Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 113	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Name one government agency, from "various countries all over the world", that has the ability and authority to fully investigate covert CIA operations. Which agency do you think has the ability to make a CIA agent answer questions pertaining to U.S. national security? Ha, ha, ha... The FBI. In fact one of the reasons the CIA dropped the ball on Al Qaeda was because they were gunshy due to a massive FBI investigation in the late 1990s.
Axxman300 Scholar Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 113

30th March 2012, 09:31 PM	#203
Axxman300 Scholar Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 113	Originally Posted by ElMondoHummus I don't understand why everyone's even giving this guy the time of day, let alone "engaging" him. Ignoring the stupidly irrelevant hairsplitting over whether OBL utilized caves at some point, the actual false premise was that he was the mastermind of 9/11. He was not. Remember: It was *Khalid Sheikh Mohammed* who actually conceived the 9/11 attacks, not Osama. Bin Laden was the godfather figure behind the organization, and he was the one who gave his blessing to the attack and dictated some of the operational details (such as assignment of people to the plot) but he was not the "mastermind". If you want an operational analogy, Franklin D. Roosevelt was not the "mastermind" behind the Normandy landings, Eisenhower and his subordinates were. Anyway, the fundamental premise isn't even correct here, and no, it's not anything to do with caves. It's the one that shows the fundamental ignorance of the truther behind the OP: What Bin Laden's actual role was. If he can't even get a most basic, fundamental fact right, why should anyone here engage him? He's not even done the most basic research into the topic; he should be ignored until he accomplishes that. You are correct Sir! Bin Laden took credit for many things he had no direct part in. The best example is his statement Al Qaeda shot down the two Blackhawks on the 10/3/93 Mogadishu raid. They may have trained the locals to dig holes in the ground to help with the backblast from the RPGs but that was it. Bin Laden was nothing more than a loudmouthed hick.
Axxman300 Scholar Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 113

30th March 2012, 11:40 PM	#205
abaddon Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,574	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert There seems to be much objection coming from government truther conspiracy theorists to my referring to Osama bin Laden as a "caveman mastermind". Again, which government?
abaddon Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 3,574	__________________ Who is General Failure? And why is he reading my hard drive?

30th March 2012, 11:50 PM	#206
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363	I'm still waiting for evidence that he ever lived in a cave.
Craig4 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 5,363

31st March 2012, 01:17 AM	#207
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	There's no real evidence that OBL ever existed. Only official government statements and MSM stories. None of those are credible. Ergo, OBL did not exist, so could not have been a caveman of any kind. These issues work against truthers as easily as for them. They render truther positions moot, as we can see. Nothing is credible, therefore nothing can exist except in propaganda. That's the truther credo distilled in pure form...
	__________________ Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'

30th March 2012, 09:16 PM	#201
MarkLindeman Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 391	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Two questions will solve this problem... 1. Did Osama bin Laden dwell, reside, or hide in caves at any time as the leader of Al-Qaeda? 2. Did Osama bin Laden ever take part in the planning, directing, or approving of any Al-Qaeda terrorist plots? [...]Therefore, your 9/11 conspiracy theory hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a caveman mastermind super-villain, which sounds like something right out of a bad Hollywood movie. Hey, I'm rarely afraid to point out the obvious: calling someone a "caveman mastermind super-villain" is a lot more laugh-out-loud than believing that someone both participated in terrorist plots and hid in caves.

30th March 2012, 09:35 PM	#204
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by Axxman300 The FBI. In fact one of the reasons the CIA dropped the ball on Al Qaeda was because they were gunshy due to a massive FBI investigation in the late 1990s. Are you confident that the government will investigate itself thoroughly and credibly?

31st March 2012, 02:10 AM	#208
Dog Town Space for Rent Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sunny blue sky, cold water. Posts: 4,462	On the run, bin Laden lived in 5 houses On the run, bin Laden lived in 5 houses Quote: ISLAMABAD (AP) — Osama bin Laden lived in five safe houses while on the run in Pakistan and fathered four children — two of them born in government hospitals, his youngest widow has told investigators. The details of bin Laden's life as a fugitive in Pakistan are contained in the interrogation report of Amal Ahmed Abdel-Fatah al-Sada, bin Laden's 30-year-old Yemeni widow. They appear to raise fresh questions over how bin Laden was able to remain undetected for so long in Pakistan after the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks, despite being the subject of a massive international manhunt. Details from the report were first published by the Pakistani newspaper Dawn. http://news.yahoo.com/run-bin-laden-...131236231.html
	__________________ "Yes. I often wonder why it is that the nutjobs, who clearly think they're among a tiny handful of people who "get it", are wholly incapable of communicating effectively enough so that other people can understand them and "get it", too." Gee Mack, JREF 5/15/09

31st March 2012, 03:29 AM	#209
Oystein Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Germany Posts: 9,755	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Two questions will solve this problem... 1. Did Osama bin Laden dwell, reside, or hide in caves at any time as the leader of Al-Qaeda? 2. Did Osama bin Laden ever take part in the planning, directing, or approving of any Al-Qaeda terrorist plots? According to the mainstream media sources you guys regard as the holy gospel, the answer to both questions is "yes". Therefore, your 9/11 conspiracy theory hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a caveman mastermind super-villain, which sounds like something right out of a bad Hollywood movie. This is what too much TV does to the human brain. 1. Does Barack Obama ever take a shower at any time as the President of the USA? 2. Does Obama ever take part in leading the USA? If you say "yes" to both, your view of US politics hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a naked wet blackman. Hmmm I thought this game would be more fun, but it is tooo stupid to be funny

31st March 2012, 06:34 AM	#210
Jackanory Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 1,339	Originally Posted by Dog Town On the run, bin Laden lived in 5 houseshttp://news.yahoo.com/run-bin-laden-...131236231.html Yep. He was a busy man. Even had time to father 4 kids whilst on the run. Not bad for a ghost or a man on ice Lived with 3 wives in Kandahar in 2000. Was in Tora Bora in 2001. His 3rd wife confirms she was moved to Karachi. Amal confirms she lived with him in Swat Valley in Peshawar in 2002. Sowed his seed whilst in Haripur in 2003/2004 and had two kids. Moved to Abbotobad with all his wives and had two more kids.
	__________________ The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract. Oliver Wendell Holmes

31st March 2012, 07:16 AM	#211
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,469	Originally Posted by Jackanory Yep. He was a busy man. Even had time to father 4 kids whilst on the run. Not bad for a ghost or a man on ice Lived with 3 wives in Kandahar in 2000. Was in Tora Bora in 2001. His 3rd wife confirms she was moved to Karachi. Amal confirms she lived with him in Swat Valley in Peshawar in 2002. Sowed his seed whilst in Haripur in 2003/2004 and had two kids. Moved to Abbotobad with all his wives and had two more kids. Where do I apply to become a caveman?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st March 2012, 07:37 AM	#212
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Two questions will solve this problem... 1. Did Osama bin Laden dwell, reside, or hide in caves at any time as the leader of Al-Qaeda? 2. Did Osama bin Laden ever take part in the planning, directing, or approving of any Al-Qaeda terrorist plots? According to the mainstream media sources you guys regard as the holy gospel, the answer to both questions is "yes". Therefore, your 9/11 conspiracy theory hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a caveman mastermind super-villain, which sounds like something right out of a bad Hollywood movie. This is what too much TV does to the human brain. Utterly ridiculous. So tell me SCH, what plots did OBL 'mastermind (using you own definition of either "planning, directing, or approving" ) during the time he was forced to retreat to Tora Bora? What mainstream media outlet ever referred to OBL as the 'caveman mastermind' of AQ, Or perhaps that is an invention of yours? The term is a caricature, a cartoon invention not of any MSM, but of your imagination. Teddy Roosevelt lived in tents at one time. Is he the tent dwelling President of the USA? What about George Washington? Was he the "rowboat mastermind of the American Revolution" given that he was forced to retreat across a river? Yes, "caveman mastermind" is laughable, more so because you are seriously trying to use the term. It is YOU who is caricaturing the man,, it is YOU who is attempting to make him a B-movie villain, not us, SHC.

31st March 2012, 07:42 AM	#213
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Are you confident that the government will investigate itself thoroughly and credibly? Are you confident that gov'ts which are decidely unfriendly to the USA have not discovered that OBL and AQ are phantoms yet have not shouted this to the world? Prove it!

31st March 2012, 08:23 AM	#214
Jackanory Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 1,339	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Are you confident that gov'ts which are decidely unfriendly to the USA have not discovered that OBL and AQ are phantoms yet have not shouted this to the world? Prove it! We live in the real world. Jason Bourne & James Bond aside, unfortunately we aren’t truly privy the workings of the intelligence community. Nor should we be. We know that in reality we can't expect them to give the world updates on past, current and future intelligence scenarios. Imagine if the CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad etc kept the truthers updated on a daily basis. Yet that is what they want. I'll give them a heads up right now. Keep an eye on what’s coming from Pakistan & Yemen. Keep an eye on OBL's remaining family, wives, and kids. They have plenty to say about the ghost on ice. Will it convince them? Who cares!
	__________________ The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract. Oliver Wendell Holmes

31st March 2012, 08:28 AM	#215
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 11,516	Originally Posted by Oystein 1. Does Barack Obama ever take a shower at any time as the President of the USA? 2. Does Obama ever take part in leading the USA? If you say "yes" to both, your view of US politics hinges on the laugh-out-loud believability of a naked wet blackman. Hmmm I thought this game would be more fun, but it is tooo stupid to be funny No, it's not funny, but you made your point well.

31st March 2012, 08:28 AM	#216
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by Jackanory We live in the real world. Jason Bourne & James Bond aside, unfortunately we aren’t truly privy the workings of the intelligence community. Nor should we be. We know that in reality we can't expect them to give the world updates on past, current and future intelligence scenarios. Imagine if the CIA, FBI, MI5, MI6, Mossad etc kept the truthers updated on a daily basis. Yet that is what they want. I'll give them a heads up right now. Keep an eye on what’s coming from Pakistan & Yemen. Keep an eye on OBL's remaining family, wives, and kids. They have plenty to say about the ghost on ice. Will it convince them? Who cares! My prediction. They will not care. It will simply be more proof that TPTB are continueing to supply misinformation to the MSM that OBL was real and that AQ was real. It is either laughable or tragic that people would hold to these delusions that OBL and AQ were fake

31st March 2012, 08:31 AM	#217
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Are you confident that gov'ts which are decidely unfriendly to the USA have not discovered that OBL and AQ are phantoms yet have not shouted this to the world? Prove it! Another approach Are you confident that a gov't unfriendly to the USA has not planted a fiction on the internet that OBL and AQ are phantoms and blamed the USA and Israel for their creation? Prove it?

31st March 2012, 08:47 AM	#218
Jackanory Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: UK Posts: 1,339	Originally Posted by jaydeehess Another approach Are you confident that a gov't unfriendly to the USA has not planted a fiction on the internet that OBL and AQ are phantoms and blamed the USA and Israel for their creation? Prove it? Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a prime example. 911 was an inside jobby to sell small arms. Want's the UN to ‘investigate 911’. He is known to frequent conspiracy sites.........and he hates the jews. Gadaffi. Mugabe. Bashar al-Assad being the ex head of head of the Syrian Computer Society is also known to have a few wacky ideas. All known to use the media/internet to whip up a conspiracy or two.
	__________________ The mind of the bigot is like the pupil of the eye; the more light you pour upon it, the more it will contract. Oliver Wendell Holmes Last edited by Jackanory; 31st March 2012 at 09:03 AM.

1st April 2012, 01:57 PM	#219
Oz1976 Muse Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 680	Originally Posted by Jackanory Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a prime example. 911 was an inside jobby to sell small arms. Want's the UN to ‘investigate 911’. He is known to frequent conspiracy sites.........and he hates the jews. Gadaffi. Mugabe. Bashar al-Assad being the ex head of head of the Syrian Computer Society is also known to have a few wacky ideas. All known to use the media/internet to whip up a conspiracy or two. Gadaffi and al-Assad have claimed though that the uprisings in their countries were the result of al-Qaeda infiltrators...so there we have two terrorist despots confirming the existence of al-Qaeda as well. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Uf0doPKyYg (Gaddafi claiming al-Qaeda responsibility) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...-assad-syria12
Oz1976 Muse Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 680

3rd April 2012, 12:46 PM	#220
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	So basically, you're admitting that you want to use terminology that you concede is irrelevant to the discussion at hand, for the sole purpose of making the other side's argument *sound* sillier than it actually is. Isn't that hypocritical given that you claim to be opposed to the use of propaganda tactics? Would I be wrong to assume that, at some point in your life, you have set foot inside a forest? Or climbed a tree, like maybe when you were a child? Therefore I would be technically correct to refer to you as a "tree-dweller". So be it. For as long as you insist on referring to OBL as a "caveman", I am going to refer to you and all Truthers everywhere as "tree-dwellers". Because you technically are, right?
	__________________ http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo

3rd April 2012, 12:48 PM	#221
1337m4n Alphanumeric Anonymous Stick Man Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 3,499	9/11 Truth Movement: A bunch of tree-dwellers who think they know better than actual scientists and engineers.
	__________________ http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting...2b728514ea.gif "The evidence that the attacks of 9/11 were an inside job just keeps not coming in." --pomeroo

3rd April 2012, 01:18 PM	#222
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by 1337m4n 9/11 Truth Movement: A bunch of tree-dwellers who think they know better than actual scientists and engineers. What good are scientists and engineers going to do you in if Al-Qaeda was covertly funded from a CIA black budget? Answer: Not much.

3rd April 2012, 01:29 PM	#223
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	AQ was funded by the Saudis. QED
	__________________ Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'

3rd April 2012, 02:16 PM	#224
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by alienentity AQ was funded by the Saudis. QED Were they? And who were the Saudis funded by? Were the Saudis put in place as a go-between? Who gave them sanction to fund Al-Qaeda?

3rd April 2012, 02:23 PM	#225
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	one of the world's countries most flush with cash needs another to fund anything?

3rd April 2012, 02:29 PM	#226
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	I still hold that China is responsible for the entire 911 conspiracy meme. I further assert that SHC is an operative of this Chinese program. Come on comrade tell us the truth, what is your rank ?

3rd April 2012, 02:30 PM	#227
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Al Qaeda funding: 'a complex fundraising network fueled by financial facilitators and diverted Islamic charity donations. Prior to September 11, the financial facilitators raised money from Gulf country donors, particularly Saudi Arabia. They primarily relied on imams at mosques who diverted compulsory charitable donations known as zakat to al Qaeda. They also received money from individuals in corrupted charities. Al Qaeda operatives infiltrated large charitable organizations with loose external oversight or controlled smaller ones. They used these employment positions to gain access to the organization's bank accounts.' http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...da-funding.htm 'The CIA estimated that prior to September 11, al Qaeda spent $30 million dollars annually, ' Please prove that Al Qaeda was NOT funded in this way. Provide sources for the info.
	__________________ Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon' Last edited by alienentity; 3rd April 2012 at 02:31 PM.

3rd April 2012, 02:33 PM	#228
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert What good are scientists and engineers going to do you in if Al-Qaeda was covertly funded from a CIA black budget? Answer: Not much. what does any of that matter if The Matrix was actually a docuementary?

3rd April 2012, 02:33 PM	#229
alienentity Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere between Here and There Posts: 4,240	Originally Posted by jaydeehess what does any of that matter if The Matrix was actually a docuementary? Prove that we are not living inside the matrix.
	__________________ Heiwa - 'Anyone suggesting that part C structure can one-way crush down part A structure is complicit to mass murder!' 000063 - 'Problem with the Truthers' theories is that anyone with enough power to pull it off doesn't need to in the first place.' mrkinnies 'I'm not a no-planer' 'I don't believe Flight 77 hit the Pentagon'

3rd April 2012, 02:36 PM	#230
plague311 Muse Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Yankees Universe Posts: 894	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Were they? And who were the Saudis funded by? Were the Saudis put in place as a go-between? Who gave them sanction to fund Al-Qaeda? If a train leaves for Chicago with a cargo car, and a smoking car what time will it reach Cleveland?
	__________________ "What is stopping you from taking action? Did you try CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, etc? Do you have a plan? Are you going to take action? What is your goal? 10 years of failure, no action." - The best question to the "truth" movement, phrased by Beachnut

3rd April 2012, 02:44 PM	#231
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by jaydeehess one of the world's countries most flush with cash needs another to fund anything? Nice straw man. Who said anything about "need"?

3rd April 2012, 02:45 PM	#232
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by alienentity Al Qaeda funding: 'a complex fundraising network fueled by financial facilitators and diverted Islamic charity donations. Prior to September 11, the financial facilitators raised money from Gulf country donors, particularly Saudi Arabia. They primarily relied on imams at mosques who diverted compulsory charitable donations known as zakat to al Qaeda. They also received money from individuals in corrupted charities. Al Qaeda operatives infiltrated large charitable organizations with loose external oversight or controlled smaller ones. They used these employment positions to gain access to the organization's bank accounts.' http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...da-funding.htm 'The CIA estimated that prior to September 11, al Qaeda spent $30 million dollars annually, ' Please prove that Al Qaeda was NOT funded in this way. Provide sources for the info. Please prove that they were. Prove that 100% of their funding came from non-U.S./Israeli government sources.

3rd April 2012, 02:46 PM	#233
Justin39640 Illuminator Join Date: May 2009 Location: New York Posts: 3,646	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Were they? And who were the Saudis funded by? Were the Saudis put in place as a go-between? Who gave them sanction to fund Al-Qaeda? Exxon, Hess, Mobil, etc...
	__________________ "I joined this forum to learn about the people who think that 9/11 was an inside job. I've learned that they believe nutty things and are not very good at explaining them." - FineWine "The agencies involved with studying the WTC collapse no more needed to consider explosives than the police need to consider brain cancer in a shooting death." - ElMondoHummus

3rd April 2012, 02:47 PM	#234
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,810	Originally Posted by alienentity Prove that we are not living inside the matrix. I could better prove we are. SHC behaves more like a program, a 'bot' if you will, than what we would expect from a human
	Last edited by jaydeehess; 3rd April 2012 at 02:49 PM.

3rd April 2012, 02:53 PM	#235
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	It's funny watching government truthers operate. Ask them to prove why they believe what they believe, and when they can't, they start talking about the Matrix, Star Wars, and other movies. It's like, "believe what we believe right now or we'll invoke Hollywood! That will teach ya!"