Galloway is back - Page 15

zooterkin · 7th July 2012, 04:43 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

Please justify this random insult, Undesired Walrus.

This thread is entitled "Galloway is back" and that is what the interview I posted addresses. What is your problem with that?

I thought it was an instruction to the rest of us, though I would have thought you'd be able to speak for yourself, and I wasn't aware of you being spammed. Perhaps there was a missing comma.

JihadJane · 7th July 2012, 04:50 AM

Maybe you're right - how refreshing! Hopefully, Walrus will enlighten us soon.

baron · 7th July 2012, 11:55 AM

I made it to 6:07 in the video but the combination of the sycophantic interviewer with the self-obsessed duplicity of that traitorous degenerate made further progress impossible. After 60 minutes I would expect to see just Galloway remaining, preening and posturing, the interviewer having crammed himself bodily into the former's anus.

trustbutverify · 7th July 2012, 12:08 PM

Six minutes isn't bad. I made it less than four.

zooterkin · 7th July 2012, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by baron

I made it to 6:07 in the video but the combination of the sycophantic interviewer with the self-obsessed duplicity of that traitorous degenerate made further progress impossible. After 60 minutes I would expect to see just Galloway remaining, preening and posturing, the interviewer having crammed himself bodily into the former's anus.

Oh, I don't want to watch any of it at all, but I don't see how it can be described as spam to put the link to it in this thread.

JihadJane · 7th July 2012, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by baron

I made it to 6:07 in the video but the combination of the sycophantic interviewer with the self-obsessed duplicity of that traitorous degenerate made further progress impossible. After 60 minutes I would expect to see just Galloway remaining, preening and posturing, the interviewer having crammed himself bodily into the former's anus.

Aw, never mind. Better luck next time.

ETA: "...traitorous degenerate..."? What's that all about?

Virus · 7th July 2012, 07:20 PM

What do you think of this Galloway video Jane? You like it?

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Childlike Empress · 8th July 2012, 10:50 AM

Originally Posted by JihadJane

An hour long, intimate interview with the UK's only left-wing MP:

'Ready to Die'

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Interesting interview, thanks Jane. A political animal to the core. Funny how he pointed out that the Iraq war made him rich - not because Saddam paid him, but because the lies the newspapers spread brought him £3.000.000 in damage repair.

JihadJane · 8th July 2012, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Childlike Empress

Interesting interview, thanks Jane. A political animal to the core. Funny how he pointed out that the Iraq war made him rich - not because Saddam paid him, but because the lies the newspapers spread brought him £3.000.000 in damage repair.

Yes, I didn't know that he was already handing out political leaflets at the aged of six!

Virus · 8th July 2012, 03:56 PM

Galloway: Hamas supporter. Jew hater.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

JihadJane · 11th July 2012, 05:22 AM

Don't Come To London: George Galloway's Message to Prince Nasser of Bahrain:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Virus · 11th July 2012, 05:53 AM

Galloway's message to Hamas: Don't come to me, I'll come to you.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Croydon Bob · 11th July 2012, 05:58 AM

Galloway denounces anti-semitism by Muslims:

They then leapt to offensive remarks about Jewish people, even moving to cast doubt on the Holocaust. "You're not allowed even to quibble about the numbers," said Fernando. "Not even to say it might have been 5 million."

"People should never go down that road," I firmly weighed in. "David Irving isn't quibbling about numbers ... In his heart, he supports the Holocaust ... The Holocaust is the greatest crime in human history and it should be accepted as such."

from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ndlasttrainfor

Undesired Walrus · 14th July 2012, 02:01 PM

It shows how low Galloway has sunk that him denouncing Holocaust denial is something of note.

JihadJane · 14th July 2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

It shows how low Galloway has sunk that him denouncing Holocaust denial is something of note.

Please cease spamming, Undesired Walrus.

Craig B · 14th July 2012, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Virus

Galloway: Hamas supporter. Jew hater.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Interesting video. Who produced it?

Craig B · 14th July 2012, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

Interesting video. Who produced it?

don't bother to answer that. I found out. Memri. See wiki on its founder.

Quote:

Meyrav Wurmser is an Israeli-born, American scholar of the Arab world. She is married to Swiss-American David Wurmser, former Middle East Adviser to US Vice President Dick Cheney. She is also a Senior Fellow at the US think tank, the Hudson Institute.
Wurmser wrote her Ph.D. thesis on Revisionist Zionism behind the Herut and Likud parties, and received her doctorate in political science at George Washington University. She went on to teach political science at Johns Hopkins University and the US Naval Academy.
In 1996, Wurmser participated in a study that led to the report, A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, a paper prepared for Likud party leader and then incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and suggested a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values" and the abandonment of traditional "land for peace" negotiations with the Palestinians. Other study participants included such notable neoconservatives as Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith.

This bunch are worse than Galloway, by a very wide margin!

trustbutverify · 14th July 2012, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

don't bother to answer that. I found out. Memri. See wiki on its founder. This bunch are worse than Galloway, by a very wide margin!

Galloway would fit in very well with "that bunch" if the current Geo-political realities were shifted a bit. And as far as propaganda operations go, MEMRI is far superior to the opposing players- by a very wide margin!!

baron · 15th July 2012, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

Galloway denounces anti-semitism by Muslims:

By people pretending to be Muslims (and we've only got his word for it). Like Choudray, Galloway would never say a word against a Muslim, least of all boast about it. This is how unbiased he is where Islam is concerned - and how he panics and implodes when someone stands up to his bullying -

edited - embedding doesn't work

http://youtu.be/YhT3VlGI7FI

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Galloway would fit in very well with "that bunch" if the current Geo-political realities were shifted a bit. And as far as propaganda operations go, MEMRI is far superior to the opposing players- by a very wide margin!!

MEMRI seems very crude and stupid. If the opposing players are worse - heaven help them! Galloway has some talents, however, albeit that he uses them mainly in the interests of his own self-aggrandisement.

Croydon Bob · 15th July 2012, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus

It shows how low Galloway has sunk that him denouncing Holocaust denial is something of note.

No. He wrote that back in 2006 and it is well known to be his position. I only posted it to counter the lie that he is a "Jew hater" posted several posts earlier.

Originally Posted by baron

(and we've only got his word for it).

What? We've only got George Galloway's word for the fact that he called The Holocaust the greatest crime in human history? Because perhaps he was lying and he didn't say it? So it isn't in an article that was written by George Galloway in The Guardian that I linked to? Is it actually possible to make less sense than you did there?

Virus · 15th July 2012, 10:52 AM

If he's not a Jew hater then why does he support Jew haters?

baron · 15th July 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

What? We've only got George Galloway's word for the fact that he called The Holocaust the greatest crime in human history?

Maybe you should read your own post because you appear confused. You said "Galloway denounces anti-semitism by Muslims" not "Galloway called The Holocaust the greatest crime in human history".

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

Because perhaps he was lying and he didn't say it? So it isn't in an article that was written by George Galloway in The Guardian that I linked to? Is it actually possible to make less sense than you did there?

Yes, and you've just done it. You linked to, and quoted from, an article which was a report by Galloway of an event in which he took part. He reports that during that event he made a statement to another person. We only have his word that this occurred because there is no independent testimony. He might have just said, "Yeah, there probably weren't 6 million killed." On the other hand he might have said exactly what he reported he said. We only have his word for it. You appear to believe this is not the case so please cite the person or people who corroborate his account, or accept that we only have his word for it.

trustbutverify · 15th July 2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

MEMRI seems very crude and stupid. If the opposing players are worse - heaven help them! Galloway has some talents, however, albeit that he uses them mainly in the interests of his own self-aggrandisement.

All I can say is it doesn't seem that way to me. I think MEMRI generally does a good job of supporting its position; that prominent anti-Zionists in the ME and throughout the world say some very interesting things when they think Westerners aren't listening, and that many of these "activists" and leaders are demonstrably racist. From what I've seen, MEMRI conducts their propaganda in a fairly intelligent and efficient way.

And again, I don't see Gallodouche being "better by a very wide margin!" than the founders of MEMRI.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

All I can say is it doesn't seem that way to me. I think MEMRI generally does a good job of supporting its position; that prominent anti-Zionists in the ME and throughout the world say some very interesting things when they think Westerners aren't listening, and that many of these "activists" and leaders are demonstrably racist. From what I've seen, MEMRI conducts their propaganda in a fairly intelligent and efficient way.

And again, I don't see Gallodouche being "better by a very wide margin!" than the founders of MEMRI.

There can be no doubt whatever that there is an abundance of racists, and anti-Semites in particular, among the Islamicist elements which oppose Israel. But the MEMRI people simply use this to push an extremist form of Zionism, which is equally unacceptable. The Palestinians are the ones who are the victims of aggression. Their cause is just, and they deserve a fair settlement of their grievances.

The MEMRI people are part of the problem, not the solution, and (though this may simply be a matter of taste) I find their propaganda very crude, with its context free sound bites and video clips.

May I stress that I am no supporter of Galloway. I am very familiar with him, as a native of Glasgow, and I deplore his views on most issues.

Virus · 15th July 2012, 01:11 PM

MEMRI is an invaluable service. It's like kryptonite to a leftie.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Virus

MEMRI is an invaluable service. It's like kryptonite to a leftie.

Thanks for that thoughtful contribution Virus. Annoying lefties is the only activity you're interested in, I know. But we must take a broader view of such propaganda machines.

True, lefties don't like MEMRI. Breivik was impressed with it, though. See http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...logger-breivi/ . In his "manifesto" it comes near the top of his citation list. Mentions in his manifesto are: Robert Spencer / Jihad Watch 162, Bat Ye'or 59, Daniel Pipes / Middle East Forum 18, MEMRI 16, Pamela Geller / Atlas Shrugs 12; and a few other entities received a smaller number of references by him.

Presumably MEMRI was horrified at having such a fan, but the crudity of their propaganda leaves them open to such use, or abuse. It is this I find dangerous.

Virus · 15th July 2012, 01:58 PM

Guilt by association fallacy.

trustbutverify · 15th July 2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

True, lefties don't like MEMRI. .

I'm a lefty, and I like MEMRI. Quite a bit in fact.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Virus

Guilt by association fallacy.

I'm not accusing MEMRI of Breivik's guilt. I'm saying that the mindless crudity of MEMRI's propaganda opens it up to this misuse. Bat Ya'or is not guilty either, because she has not explicitly or in any other way called for mass murder of Scandinavian children. But the intellectual atmosphere engendered by this kind of crude propaganda can have a serious effect on the minds of psychopaths like Breivik.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

I'm a lefty, and I like MEMRI. Quite a bit in fact.

This interests me a lot. On the basis of what principles do you describe yourself as a "leftie"?

Does your "quite a bit" qualify your "I'm a lefty" or your "I like MEMRI"?

Virus · 15th July 2012, 03:48 PM

All MEMRI does is translate what comes out of the Arab media. The left hate that. They'd rather people not see what the Arab-language press is really saying.

trustbutverify · 15th July 2012, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

This interests me a lot. On the basis of what principles do you describe yourself as a "leftie"?

Why, can't I be a Zionist-Leftist? Does my appreciation of MEMRI disqualify me from the club? I'm a leftist/Zionist who believes in a 2-state solution, that a properly and humanely implemented market economy is progressive, and that creeps like Gallowschmuck are doing profound damage to the progressive stance. I doubt there are too many other political issues where you and I have unbridgeable differences.

Quote:

Does your "quite a bit" qualify your "I'm a lefty" or your "I like MEMRI"?

It qualifies both, but in this sentence it applies to MEMRI.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Why, can't I be a Zionist-Leftist? Does my appreciation of MEMRI disqualify me from the club? I'm a leftist/Zionist who believes in a 2-state solution, that a properly and humanely implemented market economy is progressive, and that creeps like Gallowschmuck are doing profound damage to the progressive stance. I doubt there are too many other political issues where you and I have unbridgeable differences.

There are indeed leftist Zionists, or at least there used to be, and I have been personally acquainted with socialist Zionists from the kibbutz movement. They disgraced themselves in my eyes by setting up their communes on occupied territory after 1967.

But MEMRI is the very opposite of a leftist movement, founded by an apparent supporter of Revisionist Zionism, and led by a mixture of Bushites and ultra Right members of the Israeli security services.

What you write simply makes no sense. If you are seeking a just two state solution, an aspiration with which I heartily concur, then "appreciation" of MEMRI is a strange means of obtaining it. I think Virus has a much better and more rational appreciation of the movement's purpose and potential.

trustbutverify · 15th July 2012, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

There are indeed leftist Zionists, or at least there used to be, and I have been personally acquainted with socialist Zionists from the kibbutz movement. They disgraced themselves in my eyes by setting up their communes on occupied territory after 1967.

Thank you for sharing this story about you and your Socialist-Zionist- Kibbutz- Imperialist friends. I'm sure they were all devastated as a result of your disapproval. The kibbutz era has been dead for quite a while; however let me assure you there are still plenty of leftist/Zionists currently inside and outside of Israel. I happen to be one of them.

Quote:

But MEMRI is the very opposite of a leftist movement, founded by an apparent supporter of Revisionist Zionism, and led by a mixture of Bushites and ultra Right members of the Israeli security services.

I never claimed MEMRI was a leftist operation. (of course it's not a "movement"- I have no idea what you mean by that) I don't like the people who founded it, which is why I compared them to Galloway, whom I also don't like. MEMRI is a media service that attempts to expose the hypocritical and racist elements within the "anti-Zionist" movement, and to do so using their own words-from their own mouths. Personally, I think that's an important thing to do, and I believe they do an outstanding and professional job of it. I appreciate the work they do and no, that doesn't disqualify me from being a progressive.

Quote:

What you write simply makes no sense. If you are seeking a just two state solution, an aspiration with which I heartily concur, then "appreciation" of MEMRI is a strange means of obtaining it. I think Virus has a much better and more rational appreciation of the movement's purpose and potential.

What I wrote made fine sense, as I have explained. Again, MEMRI is not a movement. They provide a service which I appreciate and find useful. Which brand of Zionism the founders and current operators subscribe to has nothing to do with me.

MEMRI exposes and embarrasses a certain, rather slimy subset of "the left" which has convinced itself that it can repeat every vile racist anti-Jewish slander as long as they replace the word "JEW" with the word "ZIONIST". These creeps deserve to be exposed and humiliated. I'm glad MEMRI calls them out on it.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Thank you for sharing this story about you and your Socialist-Zionist- Kibbutz- Imperialist friends. I'm sure they were all devastated as a result of your disapproval.

Why the heavy sarcasm? Do you not consider it reasonable to be disappointed in socialists who set up communes on occupied, or even, as in one case, illegally-annexed land? Why do you dismiss this concern with such contempt?

Quote:

The kibbutz era has been dead for quite a while

Indeed.

Quote:

however let me assure you there are still plenty of leftist/Zionists currently inside and outside of Israel. I happen to be one of them.

And what is their and your view of the settlements in the occupied territories?

Quote:

I never claimed MEMRI was a leftist operation. (of course it's not a "movement"- I have no idea what you mean by that)

i will not argue over the word, so I withdraw it.

Quote:

I don't like the people who founded it, which is why I compared them to Galloway, whom I also don't like.

On the other hand, you like MEMRI "quite a bit", as we have established.

Quote:

MEMRI is a media service that attempts to expose the hypocritical and racist elements within the "anti-Zionist" movement, and to do so using their own words-from their own mouths. Personally, I think that's an important thing to do, and I believe they do an outstanding and professional job of it. I appreciate the work they do and no, that doesn't disqualify me from being a progressive. ... What I wrote made fine sense, as I have explained. Again, MEMRI is not a movement. They provide a service which I appreciate and find useful. Which brand of Zionism the founders and current operators subscribe to has nothing to do with me.

That is very odd. These people are generally agreed to be enemies of the peace process, and they have repeatedly been accused of slanting their propaganda in the cause of subverting it.

You have told me what forms of anti-Zionism you find illegitimate. Can you now inform me what manner of opposition to Zionism you consider to be acceptable, and how that fits with your "quite a bit" admiration for MEMRI?

Virus · 15th July 2012, 11:44 PM

Originally Posted by Craig B

But MEMRI is the very opposite of a leftist movement, founded by an apparent supporter of Revisionist Zionism, and led by a mixture of Bushites and ultra Right members of the Israeli security services.

Poisoning the well. Guilt by association fallacy.

Craig B · 15th July 2012, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by Virus

Poisoning the well. Guilt by association fallacy.

You're saying being a right wing supporter of Bush incurs "guilt"? Very interesting. Or are you saying they're not as I described? Anyway you should be telling trustbutverify off for being a lefty, since annoying such persons appears to be your primary occupation.

trustbutverify · 16th July 2012, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Craig B

You're saying being a right wing supporter of Bush incurs "guilt"? Very interesting. Or are you saying they're not as I described? Anyway you should be telling trustbutverify off for being a lefty, since annoying such persons appears to be your primary occupation.

He chewed me out pretty good during this years "Elders of Zion" registration drive. But we're still friends.

I'll reply to your comments in post# 596 a little later.

Craig B · 16th July 2012, 12:37 AM

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

He chewed me out pretty good during this years "Elders of Zion" registration drive. But we're still friends.

I'll reply to your comments in post# 596 a little later.

Thanks. I look forward to that.

7th July 2012, 04:43 AM	#561
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,601	Originally Posted by JihadJane Please justify this random insult, Undesired Walrus. This thread is entitled "Galloway is back" and that is what the interview I posted addresses. What is your problem with that? I thought it was an instruction to the rest of us, though I would have thought you'd be able to speak for yourself, and I wasn't aware of you being spammed. Perhaps there was a missing comma.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

7th July 2012, 04:50 AM	#562
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,763	Maybe you're right - how refreshing! Hopefully, Walrus will enlighten us soon.
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH

7th July 2012, 11:55 AM	#563
baron Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hill Posts: 1,910	I made it to 6:07 in the video but the combination of the sycophantic interviewer with the self-obsessed duplicity of that traitorous degenerate made further progress impossible. After 60 minutes I would expect to see just Galloway remaining, preening and posturing, the interviewer having crammed himself bodily into the former's anus.
	__________________

7th July 2012, 12:12 PM	#565
zooterkin Nitpicking dilettante Moderator Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Berkshire, mostly Posts: 24,601	Originally Posted by baron I made it to 6:07 in the video but the combination of the sycophantic interviewer with the self-obsessed duplicity of that traitorous degenerate made further progress impossible. After 60 minutes I would expect to see just Galloway remaining, preening and posturing, the interviewer having crammed himself bodily into the former's anus. Oh, I don't want to watch any of it at all, but I don't see how it can be described as spam to put the link to it in this thread.
	__________________ The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.Bertrand Russell Zooterkin is correct Darat Nerd! Hokulele Join the JREF Folders ! Team 13232

7th July 2012, 02:00 PM	#566
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,763	Originally Posted by baron I made it to 6:07 in the video but the combination of the sycophantic interviewer with the self-obsessed duplicity of that traitorous degenerate made further progress impossible. After 60 minutes I would expect to see just Galloway remaining, preening and posturing, the interviewer having crammed himself bodily into the former's anus. Aw, never mind. Better luck next time. ETA: "...traitorous degenerate..."? What's that all about?
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH Last edited by JihadJane; 7th July 2012 at 02:02 PM.

7th July 2012, 12:08 PM	#564
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Six minutes isn't bad. I made it less than four.

8th July 2012, 03:34 PM	#569
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,763	Originally Posted by Childlike Empress Interesting interview, thanks Jane. A political animal to the core. Funny how he pointed out that the Iraq war made him rich - not because Saddam paid him, but because the lies the newspapers spread brought him £3.000.000 in damage repair. Yes, I didn't know that he was already handing out political leaflets at the aged of six!
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH

11th July 2012, 05:58 AM	#573
Croydon Bob Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Croydon! Posts: 468	Galloway denounces anti-semitism by Muslims: They then leapt to offensive remarks about Jewish people, even moving to cast doubt on the Holocaust. "You're not allowed even to quibble about the numbers," said Fernando. "Not even to say it might have been 5 million." "People should never go down that road," I firmly weighed in. "David Irving isn't quibbling about numbers ... In his heart, he supports the Holocaust ... The Holocaust is the greatest crime in human history and it should be accepted as such." from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ndlasttrainfor

14th July 2012, 02:01 PM	#574
Undesired Walrus Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: London Posts: 10,893	It shows how low Galloway has sunk that him denouncing Holocaust denial is something of note.
	__________________ Man's material discoveries have outpaced his moral progress. - Clement Attlee, 1945

14th July 2012, 02:09 PM	#575
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,763	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus It shows how low Galloway has sunk that him denouncing Holocaust denial is something of note. Please cease spamming, Undesired Walrus.
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH

14th July 2012, 03:12 PM	#577
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by Craig B Interesting video. Who produced it? don't bother to answer that. I found out. Memri. See wiki on its founder. Quote: Meyrav Wurmser is an Israeli-born, American scholar of the Arab world. She is married to Swiss-American David Wurmser, former Middle East Adviser to US Vice President Dick Cheney. She is also a Senior Fellow at the US think tank, the Hudson Institute. Wurmser wrote her Ph.D. thesis on Revisionist Zionism behind the Herut and Likud parties, and received her doctorate in political science at George Washington University. She went on to teach political science at Johns Hopkins University and the US Naval Academy. In 1996, Wurmser participated in a study that led to the report, A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm, a paper prepared for Likud party leader and then incoming Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, and suggested a new approach to solving Israel's security problems in the Middle East with an emphasis on "Western values" and the abandonment of traditional "land for peace" negotiations with the Palestinians. Other study participants included such notable neoconservatives as Richard Perle, David Wurmser, and Douglas Feith. This bunch are worse than Galloway, by a very wide margin!
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

14th July 2012, 03:37 PM	#578
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Originally Posted by Craig B don't bother to answer that. I found out. Memri. See wiki on its founder. This bunch are worse than Galloway, by a very wide margin! Galloway would fit in very well with "that bunch" if the current Geo-political realities were shifted a bit. And as far as propaganda operations go, MEMRI is far superior to the opposing players- by a very wide margin!!
	Last edited by trustbutverify; 14th July 2012 at 03:40 PM.

15th July 2012, 09:22 AM	#579
baron Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hill Posts: 1,910	Originally Posted by Croydon Bob Galloway denounces anti-semitism by Muslims: By people pretending to be Muslims (and we've only got his word for it). Like Choudray, Galloway would never say a word against a Muslim, least of all boast about it. This is how unbiased he is where Islam is concerned - and how he panics and implodes when someone stands up to his bullying - edited - embedding doesn't work http://youtu.be/YhT3VlGI7FI
	__________________ Last edited by baron; 15th July 2012 at 09:25 AM.

15th July 2012, 10:16 AM	#580
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Galloway would fit in very well with "that bunch" if the current Geo-political realities were shifted a bit. And as far as propaganda operations go, MEMRI is far superior to the opposing players- by a very wide margin!! MEMRI seems very crude and stupid. If the opposing players are worse - heaven help them! Galloway has some talents, however, albeit that he uses them mainly in the interests of his own self-aggrandisement.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

15th July 2012, 10:17 AM	#581
Croydon Bob Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Croydon! Posts: 468	Originally Posted by Undesired Walrus It shows how low Galloway has sunk that him denouncing Holocaust denial is something of note. No. He wrote that back in 2006 and it is well known to be his position. I only posted it to counter the lie that he is a "Jew hater" posted several posts earlier. Originally Posted by baron (and we've only got his word for it). What? We've only got George Galloway's word for the fact that he called The Holocaust the greatest crime in human history? Because perhaps he was lying and he didn't say it? So it isn't in an article that was written by George Galloway in The Guardian that I linked to? Is it actually possible to make less sense than you did there?
	__________________ Gorgeous George Galloway: "The Holocaust is the greatest crime in human history"

15th July 2012, 10:52 AM	#582
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,210	If he's not a Jew hater then why does he support Jew haters?
	__________________ "The folks who proclaim their sensitivity, nuanced thinking, therapeutic concern for the tender sensibilities of others, and open-mindedness have always been the most vicious, bigoted, narrow-minded, crude, dogmatic, conformist people on the planet." - Victor Davis Hanson.

15th July 2012, 11:51 AM	#583
baron Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Hill Posts: 1,910	Originally Posted by Croydon Bob What? We've only got George Galloway's word for the fact that he called The Holocaust the greatest crime in human history? Maybe you should read your own post because you appear confused. You said "Galloway denounces anti-semitism by Muslims" not "Galloway called The Holocaust the greatest crime in human history". Originally Posted by Croydon Bob Because perhaps he was lying and he didn't say it? So it isn't in an article that was written by George Galloway in The Guardian that I linked to? Is it actually possible to make less sense than you did there? Yes, and you've just done it. You linked to, and quoted from, an article which was a report by Galloway of an event in which he took part. He reports that during that event he made a statement to another person. We only have his word that this occurred because there is no independent testimony. He might have just said, "Yeah, there probably weren't 6 million killed." On the other hand he might have said exactly what he reported he said. We only have his word for it. You appear to believe this is not the case so please cite the person or people who corroborate his account, or accept that we only have his word for it.
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15th July 2012, 12:06 PM	#584
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Originally Posted by Craig B MEMRI seems very crude and stupid. If the opposing players are worse - heaven help them! Galloway has some talents, however, albeit that he uses them mainly in the interests of his own self-aggrandisement. All I can say is it doesn't seem that way to me. I think MEMRI generally does a good job of supporting its position; that prominent anti-Zionists in the ME and throughout the world say some very interesting things when they think Westerners aren't listening, and that many of these "activists" and leaders are demonstrably racist. From what I've seen, MEMRI conducts their propaganda in a fairly intelligent and efficient way. And again, I don't see Gallodouche being "better by a very wide margin!" than the founders of MEMRI.
	Last edited by trustbutverify; 15th July 2012 at 12:09 PM.

15th July 2012, 12:44 PM	#585
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by trustbutverify All I can say is it doesn't seem that way to me. I think MEMRI generally does a good job of supporting its position; that prominent anti-Zionists in the ME and throughout the world say some very interesting things when they think Westerners aren't listening, and that many of these "activists" and leaders are demonstrably racist. From what I've seen, MEMRI conducts their propaganda in a fairly intelligent and efficient way. And again, I don't see Gallodouche being "better by a very wide margin!" than the founders of MEMRI. There can be no doubt whatever that there is an abundance of racists, and anti-Semites in particular, among the Islamicist elements which oppose Israel. But the MEMRI people simply use this to push an extremist form of Zionism, which is equally unacceptable. The Palestinians are the ones who are the victims of aggression. Their cause is just, and they deserve a fair settlement of their grievances. The MEMRI people are part of the problem, not the solution, and (though this may simply be a matter of taste) I find their propaganda very crude, with its context free sound bites and video clips. May I stress that I am no supporter of Galloway. I am very familiar with him, as a native of Glasgow, and I deplore his views on most issues.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

15th July 2012, 01:11 PM	#586
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,210	MEMRI is an invaluable service. It's like kryptonite to a leftie.
	__________________ "The folks who proclaim their sensitivity, nuanced thinking, therapeutic concern for the tender sensibilities of others, and open-mindedness have always been the most vicious, bigoted, narrow-minded, crude, dogmatic, conformist people on the planet." - Victor Davis Hanson.

15th July 2012, 01:36 PM	#587
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by Virus MEMRI is an invaluable service. It's like kryptonite to a leftie. Thanks for that thoughtful contribution Virus. Annoying lefties is the only activity you're interested in, I know. But we must take a broader view of such propaganda machines. True, lefties don't like MEMRI. Breivik was impressed with it, though. See http://thinkprogress.org/security/20...logger-breivi/ . In his "manifesto" it comes near the top of his citation list. Mentions in his manifesto are: Robert Spencer / Jihad Watch 162, Bat Ye'or 59, Daniel Pipes / Middle East Forum 18, MEMRI 16, Pamela Geller / Atlas Shrugs 12; and a few other entities received a smaller number of references by him. Presumably MEMRI was horrified at having such a fan, but the crudity of their propaganda leaves them open to such use, or abuse. It is this I find dangerous.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Last edited by Craig B; 15th July 2012 at 01:39 PM. Reason: Add omitted info.

15th July 2012, 01:58 PM	#588
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,210	Guilt by association fallacy.
	__________________ "The folks who proclaim their sensitivity, nuanced thinking, therapeutic concern for the tender sensibilities of others, and open-mindedness have always been the most vicious, bigoted, narrow-minded, crude, dogmatic, conformist people on the planet." - Victor Davis Hanson.

15th July 2012, 02:36 PM	#589
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Originally Posted by Craig B True, lefties don't like MEMRI. . I'm a lefty, and I like MEMRI. Quite a bit in fact.
	Last edited by trustbutverify; 15th July 2012 at 02:38 PM.

15th July 2012, 03:35 PM	#590
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by Virus Guilt by association fallacy. I'm not accusing MEMRI of Breivik's guilt. I'm saying that the mindless crudity of MEMRI's propaganda opens it up to this misuse. Bat Ya'or is not guilty either, because she has not explicitly or in any other way called for mass murder of Scandinavian children. But the intellectual atmosphere engendered by this kind of crude propaganda can have a serious effect on the minds of psychopaths like Breivik.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

15th July 2012, 03:38 PM	#591
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by trustbutverify I'm a lefty, and I like MEMRI. Quite a bit in fact. This interests me a lot. On the basis of what principles do you describe yourself as a "leftie"? Does your "quite a bit" qualify your "I'm a lefty" or your "I like MEMRI"?
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Last edited by Craig B; 15th July 2012 at 03:41 PM.

15th July 2012, 03:48 PM	#592
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,210	All MEMRI does is translate what comes out of the Arab media. The left hate that. They'd rather people not see what the Arab-language press is really saying.
	__________________ "The folks who proclaim their sensitivity, nuanced thinking, therapeutic concern for the tender sensibilities of others, and open-mindedness have always been the most vicious, bigoted, narrow-minded, crude, dogmatic, conformist people on the planet." - Victor Davis Hanson. Last edited by Virus; 15th July 2012 at 03:51 PM.

15th July 2012, 05:41 PM	#593
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Originally Posted by Craig B This interests me a lot. On the basis of what principles do you describe yourself as a "leftie"? Why, can't I be a Zionist-Leftist? Does my appreciation of MEMRI disqualify me from the club? I'm a leftist/Zionist who believes in a 2-state solution, that a properly and humanely implemented market economy is progressive, and that creeps like Gallowschmuck are doing profound damage to the progressive stance. I doubt there are too many other political issues where you and I have unbridgeable differences. Quote: Does your "quite a bit" qualify your "I'm a lefty" or your "I like MEMRI"? It qualifies both, but in this sentence it applies to MEMRI.
	Last edited by trustbutverify; 15th July 2012 at 07:34 PM.

15th July 2012, 09:20 PM	#594
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Why, can't I be a Zionist-Leftist? Does my appreciation of MEMRI disqualify me from the club? I'm a leftist/Zionist who believes in a 2-state solution, that a properly and humanely implemented market economy is progressive, and that creeps like Gallowschmuck are doing profound damage to the progressive stance. I doubt there are too many other political issues where you and I have unbridgeable differences. There are indeed leftist Zionists, or at least there used to be, and I have been personally acquainted with socialist Zionists from the kibbutz movement. They disgraced themselves in my eyes by setting up their communes on occupied territory after 1967. But MEMRI is the very opposite of a leftist movement, founded by an apparent supporter of Revisionist Zionism, and led by a mixture of Bushites and ultra Right members of the Israeli security services. What you write simply makes no sense. If you are seeking a just two state solution, an aspiration with which I heartily concur, then "appreciation" of MEMRI is a strange means of obtaining it. I think Virus has a much better and more rational appreciation of the movement's purpose and potential.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

15th July 2012, 10:51 PM	#595
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Originally Posted by Craig B There are indeed leftist Zionists, or at least there used to be, and I have been personally acquainted with socialist Zionists from the kibbutz movement. They disgraced themselves in my eyes by setting up their communes on occupied territory after 1967. Thank you for sharing this story about you and your Socialist-Zionist- Kibbutz- Imperialist friends. I'm sure they were all devastated as a result of your disapproval. The kibbutz era has been dead for quite a while; however let me assure you there are still plenty of leftist/Zionists currently inside and outside of Israel. I happen to be one of them. Quote: But MEMRI is the very opposite of a leftist movement, founded by an apparent supporter of Revisionist Zionism, and led by a mixture of Bushites and ultra Right members of the Israeli security services. I never claimed MEMRI was a leftist operation. (of course it's not a "movement"- I have no idea what you mean by that) I don't like the people who founded it, which is why I compared them to Galloway, whom I also don't like. MEMRI is a media service that attempts to expose the hypocritical and racist elements within the "anti-Zionist" movement, and to do so using their own words-from their own mouths. Personally, I think that's an important thing to do, and I believe they do an outstanding and professional job of it. I appreciate the work they do and no, that doesn't disqualify me from being a progressive. Quote: What you write simply makes no sense. If you are seeking a just two state solution, an aspiration with which I heartily concur, then "appreciation" of MEMRI is a strange means of obtaining it. I think Virus has a much better and more rational appreciation of the movement's purpose and potential. What I wrote made fine sense, as I have explained. Again, MEMRI is not a movement. They provide a service which I appreciate and find useful. Which brand of Zionism the founders and current operators subscribe to has nothing to do with me. MEMRI exposes and embarrasses a certain, rather slimy subset of "the left" which has convinced itself that it can repeat every vile racist anti-Jewish slander as long as they replace the word "JEW" with the word "ZIONIST". These creeps deserve to be exposed and humiliated. I'm glad MEMRI calls them out on it.
	Last edited by trustbutverify; 15th July 2012 at 11:16 PM.

15th July 2012, 11:27 PM	#596
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by trustbutverify Thank you for sharing this story about you and your Socialist-Zionist- Kibbutz- Imperialist friends. I'm sure they were all devastated as a result of your disapproval. Why the heavy sarcasm? Do you not consider it reasonable to be disappointed in socialists who set up communes on occupied, or even, as in one case, illegally-annexed land? Why do you dismiss this concern with such contempt? Quote: The kibbutz era has been dead for quite a while Indeed. Quote: however let me assure you there are still plenty of leftist/Zionists currently inside and outside of Israel. I happen to be one of them. And what is their and your view of the settlements in the occupied territories? Quote: I never claimed MEMRI was a leftist operation. (of course it's not a "movement"- I have no idea what you mean by that) i will not argue over the word, so I withdraw it. Quote: I don't like the people who founded it, which is why I compared them to Galloway, whom I also don't like. On the other hand, you like MEMRI "quite a bit", as we have established. Quote: MEMRI is a media service that attempts to expose the hypocritical and racist elements within the "anti-Zionist" movement, and to do so using their own words-from their own mouths. Personally, I think that's an important thing to do, and I believe they do an outstanding and professional job of it. I appreciate the work they do and no, that doesn't disqualify me from being a progressive. ... What I wrote made fine sense, as I have explained. Again, MEMRI is not a movement. They provide a service which I appreciate and find useful. Which brand of Zionism the founders and current operators subscribe to has nothing to do with me. That is very odd. These people are generally agreed to be enemies of the peace process, and they have repeatedly been accused of slanting their propaganda in the cause of subverting it. You have told me what forms of anti-Zionism you find illegitimate. Can you now inform me what manner of opposition to Zionism you consider to be acceptable, and how that fits with your "quite a bit" admiration for MEMRI?
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

15th July 2012, 11:44 PM	#597
Virus Master Templar Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Australia Posts: 6,210	Originally Posted by Craig B But MEMRI is the very opposite of a leftist movement, founded by an apparent supporter of Revisionist Zionism, and led by a mixture of Bushites and ultra Right members of the Israeli security services. Poisoning the well. Guilt by association fallacy.
	__________________ "The folks who proclaim their sensitivity, nuanced thinking, therapeutic concern for the tender sensibilities of others, and open-mindedness have always been the most vicious, bigoted, narrow-minded, crude, dogmatic, conformist people on the planet." - Victor Davis Hanson.

15th July 2012, 11:51 PM	#598
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by Virus Poisoning the well. Guilt by association fallacy. You're saying being a right wing supporter of Bush incurs "guilt"? Very interesting. Or are you saying they're not as I described? Anyway you should be telling trustbutverify off for being a lefty, since annoying such persons appears to be your primary occupation.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985

16th July 2012, 12:29 AM	#599
trustbutverify Master Poster Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,083	Originally Posted by Craig B You're saying being a right wing supporter of Bush incurs "guilt"? Very interesting. Or are you saying they're not as I described? Anyway you should be telling trustbutverify off for being a lefty, since annoying such persons appears to be your primary occupation. He chewed me out pretty good during this years "Elders of Zion" registration drive. But we're still friends. I'll reply to your comments in post# 596 a little later.

16th July 2012, 12:37 AM	#600
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985	Originally Posted by trustbutverify He chewed me out pretty good during this years "Elders of Zion" registration drive. But we're still friends. I'll reply to your comments in post# 596 a little later. Thanks. I look forward to that.
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,985