Haarp attacks!

IndridCold · 12th April 2012, 01:20 PM

A friend of mine is coming to me with his youtube videos blaming some disasters on the HAARP telling me it is Nicola Tesla's death ray and that it's going to split the Earth.
The only time before that I had heard of this contraption was on CT with Jesse Ventura, which I can't take seriously anyways. But he says it does just about everything. Changing weather, mind control, straight up killing people, you name it, right?

So anyways, can someone with a better understanding of the HAARP tell me what it actually does without telling me it's out to kill me?

defaultdotxbe · 12th April 2012, 01:25 PM

ill admit i dont know much about it myself, but the wiki article seems a good starting point

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haarp

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 01:26 PM

Just ask the U.S. government what it does, because you can be certain that they will tell you the truth. The government always tells the truth.

IndridCold · 12th April 2012, 01:36 PM

It has it's own website.
People like to say it's 'top secret', but it has it's own website full of info.
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

And I've read something like "not intended for military use", which to me almost sounds like it could be. And if so, what could it do?

Basically this is my understanding of it...
Big antenna array, pumps high energy, intended to research ionosphere, ?????, people say it is weapon.

dafydd · 12th April 2012, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by IndridCold

It has it's own website.
People like to say it's 'top secret', but it has it's own website full of info.
http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/

And I've read something like "not intended for military use", which to me almost sounds like it could be. And if so, what could it do?

Basically this is my understanding of it...
Big antenna array, pumps high energy, intended to research ionosphere, ?????, people say it is weapon.

Ignorant people, and they are wrong.

dafydd · 12th April 2012, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by IndridCold

A friend of mine is coming to me with his youtube videos blaming some disasters on the HAARP telling me it is Nicola Tesla's death ray and that it's going to split the Earth.
The only time before that I had heard of this contraption was on CT with Jesse Ventura, which I can't take seriously anyways. But he says it does just about everything. Changing weather, mind control, straight up killing people, you name it, right?

So anyways, can someone with a better understanding of the HAARP tell me what it actually does without telling me it's out to kill me?

Perhaps your friend needs medication?

sts60 · 12th April 2012, 01:49 PM

It pumps RF energy into a patch of the ionosphere. It's good for studying some of the ionospheric behaviors and effects on radio propagation, and thus has military as well as civilian applications in communications.

The daily variation in energy received from the Sun by the ionosphere dwarfs the maximum energy HAARP can put out. HAARP isn't a weapon, and it can't do the crazy things ascribed to it by ignorant and/or deluded people.

But because it's got a neat acronym, and people generally don't understand what it does, and because it's off the beaten path, it's a great favorite of conspiracy theorists. Mind control, causing earthquakes, shooting down space shuttles, you name it - some idiot thinks HAARP can do it. No job too big or too small.

I read an article in the Anchorage Daily News some years back, describing an open house held at HAARP. There were conspiracy nuts wandering around inside the facility, fuming at how the eeevil gummint was hiding The Awful Truth from them, much to the bemusement of facility personnel.

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by sts60

HAARP isn't a weapon, and it can't do the crazy things ascribed to it by ignorant and/or deluded people.

How do you really know?

Quote:

I read an article in the Anchorage Daily News some years back, describing an open house held at HAARP. There were conspiracy nuts wandering around inside the facility, fuming at how the eeevil gummint was hiding The Awful Truth from them, much to the bemusement of facility personnel.

Right, because as we all know, the government has never hid The Awful Truth from the people.

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

How do you really know?

Because some people know how to do science.

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Because some people know how to do science.

You mean, some people claim to know how to do science. But that doesn't really answer my question about HAARP.

So, again, how do you guys really know what HAARP can do and what it's capabilities are? How do you really know what it's intended purpose is? Because the government told you so?

And that's credible how?

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

You mean, some people claim to know how to do science.

No, that's not what I mean.

dudalb · 12th April 2012, 03:15 PM

Not that all the scientific evidence on planet Earth would cause SHC to admit that one of his conspiracy theories was wrong........

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

No, that's not what I mean.

Maybe you can stop tap dancing around to answer the following questions:

So, again, how do you guys really know what HAARP can do and what it's capabilities are? How do you really know what it's intended purpose is? Because the government told you so?

And that's credible how?

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Not that all the scientific evidence on planet Earth would cause SHC to admit that one of his conspiracy theories was wrong........

How will any of that help you know what HAARP's capabilities truly are and what its intended purpose is?

Does scientific evidence somehow aid you in your wishful thinking endeavors?

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Maybe you can stop tap dancing around...

Maybe you can stop trying to put words in my mouth. I gave you my answer. You're now just trying to handwave some vague doubt.

Don't like my answer? Get a degree.

SUSpilot · 12th April 2012, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Maybe you can stop tap dancing around to answer the following questions:

So, again, how do you guys really know what HAARP can do and what it's capabilities are? How do you really know what it's intended purpose is? Because the government told you so?

And that's credible how?

Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for?

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Maybe you can stop trying to put words in my mouth. I gave you my answer. You're now just trying to handwave some vague doubt.

Don't like my answer? Get a degree.

Since you're being so positively cryptic in your responses, let me see if I understand this using some of your own words...

"Because some people know how to do science", as you responded earlier, that must necessarily mean they know exactly what the government's capabilities and intent are with regard to a government-funded scientific effort such as HAARP?

How, pray tell? How does a degree in a scientific field inform you about government capabilities or intentions? Does a degree provide you with E.S.P., or something?

Cl1mh4224rd · 12th April 2012, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by SUSpilot

Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for?

Jesus Christ... Don't encourage him.

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

How will any of that help you know what HAARP's capabilities truly are and what its intended purpose is?

Straw man. Science helps us evaluate the validity and credibility of various conspiracy theories regarding HAARP.

Quote:

Does scientific evidence somehow aid you in your wishful thinking endeavors?

Science provides a reliable, testable, and predictive framework for understanding the behavior of the physical world. As such it provides a yardstick against which to evaluate claims made about the behavior of the physical world.

I don't know what else you're babbling about.

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by SUSpilot

Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for?

I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes.

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Since you're being so positively cryptic in your responses...

I'm simply avoiding your blatant attempts at straw-man arguments.

Quote:

"Because some people know how to do science", as you responded earlier, that must necessarily mean...

More attempts to put words in my mouth. Please address the arguments I make, not the ones you wish I had.

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Straw man. Science helps us evaluate the validity and credibility of various conspiracy theories regarding HAARP.

How can you determine whether or not HAARP is or could be used as a weapon? Simply declaring that you or somebody else knows how to do science isn't an answer to that question.

Quote:

Science provides a reliable, testable, and predictive framework for understanding the behavior of the physical world. As such it provides a yardstick against which to evaluate claims made about the behavior of the physical world.

I don't know what else you're babbling about.

How can science inform you of whether or not HAARP is a weapon?

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

I don't know...

Do you know what its stated purpose is? Can you explain in your own words how it is purported to work?

Quote:

I don't ... rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes.

Too vague. There are specific conspiracy theories that claim HAARP is being or has been used for specific purposes. Can you comment on those, please?

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

How can science inform you of whether or not HAARP is a weapon?

By providing us with a reliable, tested framework for evaluating specific claims of its alleged use.

Horatius · 12th April 2012, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by IndridCold

But he says it does just about everything. Changing weather, mind control, straight up killing people, you name it, right?

No, that's the Swiss Army HAARP he's thinking of.

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Do you know what its stated purpose is? Can you explain in your own words how it is purported to work?

Sure, I can look at the HAARP website and regurgitate what they claim HAARP's purpose is and how it works, but what's the point? They could be lying just as easily as they could be telling the truth.

Quote:

Too vague. There are specific conspiracy theories that claim HAARP is being or has been used for specific purposes. Can you comment on those, please?

Why? What purpose would that serve? There could be a thousand different conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP? Why would I care to comment on them?

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

By providing us with a reliable, tested framework for evaluating specific claims of its alleged use.

How are you going to reliably test these claims and evaluate them if you aren't allowed to test the HAARP equipment yourself?

oody · 12th April 2012, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes.

Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that.

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by oody

Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that.

Are you assuming that that is all HAARP does? If so, why?

dudalb · 12th April 2012, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes.

Problem is for HAARP to be used as a weapon in the way the CT theories have it takes it into Science Fiction territory way past the point of plausibility.

dudalb · 12th April 2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by oody

Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that.

Problem is the CT's think HAARP has pretty much the same capablities of the Main Weapon Darth Vader had in The Death Star.........

SpringHallConvert · 12th April 2012, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Problem is for HAARP to be used as a weapon in the way the CT theories have it takes it into Science Fiction territory way past the point of plausibility.

I haven't inventoried every HAARP conspiracy theory out there, and I seriously doubt you have either.

How about this instead? Is it plausible that our government has lied/misled about HAARP and that it does have some applications as a weapon with some unusual and/or destructive capabilities?

I personally don't see why not.

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

They could be lying just as easily as they could be telling the truth.

Then by that logic, everything ever built by anyone at any time for any purpose is equally a potential weapon.

Since you don't know what it purports to be, and you admit you don't know what it "really" is, and you can't speak meaningfully at any level about any of the concepts involved, you're just handwaving. Sorry, not interested.

Quote:

Why? What purpose would that serve?

Because your entire approach to this topic is to avoid being pinned down on anything, so that you can take comfort in the very wide latitude offered by almost infinite and useless vagueness. From that point of view, you propose to look down your nose at anyone who tries to introduce even the slightest hint of a fact into the discussion. Sorry, but as the proponent you'll have to take some stand.

Quote:

There could be a thousand different conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP? Why would I care to comment on them?

Because they're what Sts60 was talking about. If you're going to take him to task for pointing out that HAARP can't do the crazy things attributed to it, you could at least pay attention to what those crazy claims are. Address the claims made, not the claims you wish were made.

JayUtah · 12th April 2012, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

How are you going to reliably test these claims and evaluate them if you aren't allowed to test the HAARP equipment yourself?

That's not what I meant by "reliable" and "testable" in my statement.

CORed · 12th April 2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by SUSpilot

Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for?

Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd

Jesus Christ... Don't encourage him.

I don't disagree with you, but I think it's safe to say that he will never answer that question.

Mudcat · 12th April 2012, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes.

I would. Just by knowing basic laws of physics.

oody · 12th April 2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Quote:

Originally Posted by oody
Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that.

Are you assuming that that is all HAARP does? If so, why?

I'm just establishing that you're okay with the defense department having a legitimate interest in studying effects of an excited ionosphere. Good to know you're on board with that.

The Dark Lord · 12th April 2012, 04:26 PM

Maybe the evil Jew billionaires that secretly control everything are using HAARP to control SHC's mind just because they like *********** with him. Can you prove that this isn't happening SHC?

lol

dafydd · 12th April 2012, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Maybe the evil Jew billionaires that secretly control everything are using HAARP to control SHC's mind just because they like *********** with him. Can you prove that this isn't happening SHC?

lol

His tinfoil hat will take care of that.

Mudcat · 12th April 2012, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

His tinfoil hat will take care of that.

Actually the MythBusters busted that myth, it would actually make SHC more susceptible to transmissions.

12th April 2012, 01:20 PM	#1
IndridCold Student Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 36	Haarp attacks! A friend of mine is coming to me with his youtube videos blaming some disasters on the HAARP telling me it is Nicola Tesla's death ray and that it's going to split the Earth. The only time before that I had heard of this contraption was on CT with Jesse Ventura, which I can't take seriously anyways. But he says it does just about everything. Changing weather, mind control, straight up killing people, you name it, right? So anyways, can someone with a better understanding of the HAARP tell me what it actually does without telling me it's out to kill me?
IndridCold Student Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 36

12th April 2012, 01:25 PM	#2
defaultdotxbe Drunken Shikigami Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: The Dark Side of the Sun Posts: 7,482	ill admit i dont know much about it myself, but the wiki article seems a good starting point http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haarp
	__________________ I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones. -Albert Einstein

12th April 2012, 01:36 PM	#4
IndridCold Student Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 36	It has it's own website. People like to say it's 'top secret', but it has it's own website full of info. http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/ And I've read something like "not intended for military use", which to me almost sounds like it could be. And if so, what could it do? Basically this is my understanding of it... Big antenna array, pumps high energy, intended to research ionosphere, ?????, people say it is weapon.
IndridCold Student Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 36

12th April 2012, 01:46 PM	#5
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,475	Originally Posted by IndridCold It has it's own website. People like to say it's 'top secret', but it has it's own website full of info. http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/ And I've read something like "not intended for military use", which to me almost sounds like it could be. And if so, what could it do? Basically this is my understanding of it... Big antenna array, pumps high energy, intended to research ionosphere, ?????, people say it is weapon. Ignorant people, and they are wrong.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

12th April 2012, 01:47 PM	#6
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,475	Originally Posted by IndridCold A friend of mine is coming to me with his youtube videos blaming some disasters on the HAARP telling me it is Nicola Tesla's death ray and that it's going to split the Earth. The only time before that I had heard of this contraption was on CT with Jesse Ventura, which I can't take seriously anyways. But he says it does just about everything. Changing weather, mind control, straight up killing people, you name it, right? So anyways, can someone with a better understanding of the HAARP tell me what it actually does without telling me it's out to kill me? Perhaps your friend needs medication?
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

12th April 2012, 01:26 PM	#3
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Just ask the U.S. government what it does, because you can be certain that they will tell you the truth. The government always tells the truth.

12th April 2012, 01:49 PM	#7
sts60 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,518	It pumps RF energy into a patch of the ionosphere. It's good for studying some of the ionospheric behaviors and effects on radio propagation, and thus has military as well as civilian applications in communications. The daily variation in energy received from the Sun by the ionosphere dwarfs the maximum energy HAARP can put out. HAARP isn't a weapon, and it can't do the crazy things ascribed to it by ignorant and/or deluded people. But because it's got a neat acronym, and people generally don't understand what it does, and because it's off the beaten path, it's a great favorite of conspiracy theorists. Mind control, causing earthquakes, shooting down space shuttles, you name it - some idiot thinks HAARP can do it. No job too big or too small. I read an article in the Anchorage Daily News some years back, describing an open house held at HAARP. There were conspiracy nuts wandering around inside the facility, fuming at how the eeevil gummint was hiding The Awful Truth from them, much to the bemusement of facility personnel.
sts60 Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,518

12th April 2012, 02:27 PM	#8
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by sts60 HAARP isn't a weapon, and it can't do the crazy things ascribed to it by ignorant and/or deluded people. How do you really know? Quote: I read an article in the Anchorage Daily News some years back, describing an open house held at HAARP. There were conspiracy nuts wandering around inside the facility, fuming at how the eeevil gummint was hiding The Awful Truth from them, much to the bemusement of facility personnel. Right, because as we all know, the government has never hid The Awful Truth from the people.

12th April 2012, 02:30 PM	#9
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert How do you really know? Because some people know how to do science.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 02:46 PM	#10
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by JayUtah Because some people know how to do science. You mean, some people claim to know how to do science. But that doesn't really answer my question about HAARP. So, again, how do you guys really know what HAARP can do and what it's capabilities are? How do you really know what it's intended purpose is? Because the government told you so? And that's credible how?

12th April 2012, 03:03 PM	#11
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert You mean, some people claim to know how to do science. No, that's not what I mean.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 03:15 PM	#12
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Not that all the scientific evidence on planet Earth would cause SHC to admit that one of his conspiracy theories was wrong........

12th April 2012, 03:15 PM	#13
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by JayUtah No, that's not what I mean. Maybe you can stop tap dancing around to answer the following questions: So, again, how do you guys really know what HAARP can do and what it's capabilities are? How do you really know what it's intended purpose is? Because the government told you so? And that's credible how?

12th April 2012, 03:19 PM	#14
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by dudalb Not that all the scientific evidence on planet Earth would cause SHC to admit that one of his conspiracy theories was wrong........ How will any of that help you know what HAARP's capabilities truly are and what its intended purpose is? Does scientific evidence somehow aid you in your wishful thinking endeavors?

12th April 2012, 03:20 PM	#15
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Maybe you can stop tap dancing around... Maybe you can stop trying to put words in my mouth. I gave you my answer. You're now just trying to handwave some vague doubt. Don't like my answer? Get a degree.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 03:23 PM	#16
SUSpilot Muse Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 691	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Maybe you can stop tap dancing around to answer the following questions: So, again, how do you guys really know what HAARP can do and what it's capabilities are? How do you really know what it's intended purpose is? Because the government told you so? And that's credible how? Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for?
SUSpilot Muse Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 691

12th April 2012, 03:27 PM	#17
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by JayUtah Maybe you can stop trying to put words in my mouth. I gave you my answer. You're now just trying to handwave some vague doubt. Don't like my answer? Get a degree. Since you're being so positively cryptic in your responses, let me see if I understand this using some of your own words... "Because some people know how to do science", as you responded earlier, that must necessarily mean they know exactly what the government's capabilities and intent are with regard to a government-funded scientific effort such as HAARP? How, pray tell? How does a degree in a scientific field inform you about government capabilities or intentions? Does a degree provide you with E.S.P., or something?

12th April 2012, 03:27 PM	#18
Cl1mh4224rd Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Pennsylvania, USA Posts: 6,618	Originally Posted by SUSpilot Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for? Jesus Christ... Don't encourage him.

12th April 2012, 03:28 PM	#19
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert How will any of that help you know what HAARP's capabilities truly are and what its intended purpose is? Straw man. Science helps us evaluate the validity and credibility of various conspiracy theories regarding HAARP. Quote: Does scientific evidence somehow aid you in your wishful thinking endeavors? Science provides a reliable, testable, and predictive framework for understanding the behavior of the physical world. As such it provides a yardstick against which to evaluate claims made about the behavior of the physical world. I don't know what else you're babbling about.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 03:29 PM	#20
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by SUSpilot Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for? I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes.

12th April 2012, 03:31 PM	#21
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Since you're being so positively cryptic in your responses... I'm simply avoiding your blatant attempts at straw-man arguments. Quote: "Because some people know how to do science", as you responded earlier, that must necessarily mean... More attempts to put words in my mouth. Please address the arguments I make, not the ones you wish I had.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 03:35 PM	#22
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by JayUtah Straw man. Science helps us evaluate the validity and credibility of various conspiracy theories regarding HAARP. How can you determine whether or not HAARP is or could be used as a weapon? Simply declaring that you or somebody else knows how to do science isn't an answer to that question. Quote: Science provides a reliable, testable, and predictive framework for understanding the behavior of the physical world. As such it provides a yardstick against which to evaluate claims made about the behavior of the physical world. I don't know what else you're babbling about. How can science inform you of whether or not HAARP is a weapon?

12th April 2012, 03:37 PM	#24
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert How can science inform you of whether or not HAARP is a weapon? By providing us with a reliable, tested framework for evaluating specific claims of its alleged use.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 03:39 PM	#25
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 21,894	Originally Posted by IndridCold But he says it does just about everything. Changing weather, mind control, straight up killing people, you name it, right? No, that's the Swiss Army HAARP he's thinking of.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

12th April 2012, 03:43 PM	#26
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by JayUtah Do you know what its stated purpose is? Can you explain in your own words how it is purported to work? Sure, I can look at the HAARP website and regurgitate what they claim HAARP's purpose is and how it works, but what's the point? They could be lying just as easily as they could be telling the truth. Quote: Too vague. There are specific conspiracy theories that claim HAARP is being or has been used for specific purposes. Can you comment on those, please? Why? What purpose would that serve? There could be a thousand different conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP? Why would I care to comment on them?

12th April 2012, 03:46 PM	#27
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by JayUtah By providing us with a reliable, tested framework for evaluating specific claims of its alleged use. How are you going to reliably test these claims and evaluate them if you aren't allowed to test the HAARP equipment yourself?

12th April 2012, 03:46 PM	#28
oody Muse Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Arkansas Posts: 929	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes. Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that.

12th April 2012, 03:47 PM	#29
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by oody Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that. Are you assuming that that is all HAARP does? If so, why?

12th April 2012, 03:48 PM	#30
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes. Problem is for HAARP to be used as a weapon in the way the CT theories have it takes it into Science Fiction territory way past the point of plausibility.

12th April 2012, 03:49 PM	#31
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,848	Originally Posted by oody Certainly a better understanding of how radio waves propogate through the ionosphere might gain us an advantage over an enemy. I don't think anyone's disputing that. Problem is the CT's think HAARP has pretty much the same capablities of the Main Weapon Darth Vader had in The Death Star.........

12th April 2012, 03:53 PM	#32
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by dudalb Problem is for HAARP to be used as a weapon in the way the CT theories have it takes it into Science Fiction territory way past the point of plausibility. I haven't inventoried every HAARP conspiracy theory out there, and I seriously doubt you have either. How about this instead? Is it plausible that our government has lied/misled about HAARP and that it does have some applications as a weapon with some unusual and/or destructive capabilities? I personally don't see why not.

12th April 2012, 04:03 PM	#33
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert They could be lying just as easily as they could be telling the truth. Then by that logic, everything ever built by anyone at any time for any purpose is equally a potential weapon. Since you don't know what it purports to be, and you admit you don't know what it "really" is, and you can't speak meaningfully at any level about any of the concepts involved, you're just handwaving. Sorry, not interested. Quote: Why? What purpose would that serve? Because your entire approach to this topic is to avoid being pinned down on anything, so that you can take comfort in the very wide latitude offered by almost infinite and useless vagueness. From that point of view, you propose to look down your nose at anyone who tries to introduce even the slightest hint of a fact into the discussion. Sorry, but as the proponent you'll have to take some stand. Quote: There could be a thousand different conspiracy theories surrounding HAARP? Why would I care to comment on them? Because they're what Sts60 was talking about. If you're going to take him to task for pointing out that HAARP can't do the crazy things attributed to it, you could at least pay attention to what those crazy claims are. Address the claims made, not the claims you wish were made.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 04:05 PM	#34
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert How are you going to reliably test these claims and evaluate them if you aren't allowed to test the HAARP equipment yourself? That's not what I meant by "reliable" and "testable" in my statement.
JayUtah Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 4,151

12th April 2012, 04:07 PM	#35
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,292	Originally Posted by SUSpilot Ok, let's do this a different way: what do you think it's for? Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd Jesus Christ... Don't encourage him. I don't disagree with you, but I think it's safe to say that he will never answer that question.
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,292

12th April 2012, 04:08 PM	#36
Mudcat Man of a Thousand Memes Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 3,687	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert I don't know, but I don't and wouldn't in the future rule out the possibility that it could be used as a weapon for nefarious purposes. I would. Just by knowing basic laws of physics.
	__________________ The major problem with Ocham's Razor is that while the simplest answer may be the best answer that doesn't make it the only answer or the right one. Kopji: A perfect utopia where everyone follows the rules is more like a hell than a heaven.