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SpringHallConvert · 16th April 2012, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by fess

Certainly, you can prove this gibberish… right?

Not to your satisfaction, I can't. Just do your own research into Freemasonry and find out for yourself.

Tomtomkent · 16th April 2012, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

So? Much like a government hierarchy, the structure of Freemasonry is highly compartmentalized. The outer rings have no idea what the inner rings are doing, and even many of the inner rings have no idea who or what is at the center of Freemasonry.

Yes they do: more masons. What is at the middle is more masons. No dark secrets, no secret government, no relics from the temple of solomon, just rich people who dress up their rotary club in kitsch.

That is the result of research as you are in your "do your own research" mood. The masonshave wonderful archives, museums and libraries. Now the thing is the burden of proof is on you. So if you can't prove an assertion to the satisfaction of a critical thinker the answer is not that we have to research it (and come to a different conclusion), it is that your statements are unfounded until you have facts.

Tomtomkent · 16th April 2012, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

You just did. You can't help but flail about wildly.

Clearly if you place a blindfold on any boxer above featherweight they start asking for evidence based validations of their openents assertion. It allows for a technical win on points in the olympics.

Alternatively, you are wrong.

SpringHallConvert · 17th April 2012, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

Yes they do: more masons. What is at the middle is more masons. No dark secrets, no secret government, no relics from the temple of solomon, just rich people who dress up their rotary club in kitsch.

False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world.

Only fools buy it, though.

The Dark Lord · 17th April 2012, 12:12 AM

Is it the Freemasons or the Jews? Or are the top Freemasons all Jews?

Tomtomkent · 17th April 2012, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world.

Only fools buy it, though.

Ok. You have me bang to rights. There are also golf days, ceremonies in which I dress as a knight templar, charitable donations to the impoverished, students, and community projects. The deepest darkest secrets are the social callender...

Scary. Isn't it.

nomuse · 17th April 2012, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

Ok. You have me bang to rights. There are also golf days, ceremonies in which I dress as a knight templar, charitable donations to the impoverished, students, and community projects. The deepest darkest secrets are the social callender...

Scary. Isn't it.

Worse than that. Whenever I think of the terrible Masonic threat, I think of fezzes and really tiny cars...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shriners

(Ah, but that's just what they WANT you to think! They are trying to get you off your guard!)

jargon buster · 17th April 2012, 01:25 AM

SHC Wrote

Quote:

So? Much like a government hierarchy, the structure of Freemasonry is highly compartmentalized. The outer rings have no idea what the inner rings are doing, and even many of the inner rings have no idea who or what is at the center of Freemasonry.

Thats not an ideal way to run an organisation thats alledgedly running the world is it?
Wouldnt it be better if the right hand knew what the left was doing?

nomuse · 17th April 2012, 01:50 AM

Friend of mine had two comments:

"If only four people know they are secretly running the world, then who cares?"

"Considering all the different conspiracies they are responsible for (faking the moon landing, fluoridating the water, starting wars, hiding Bigfoot) they must have a really, really busy day."

Jack by the hedge · 17th April 2012, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by nomuse

"If only four people know they are secretly running the world, then who cares?"

The best thing about that job would be that if they all just took the day off and went to the beach, nobody would ever know.

In fact (presuming that they work in an underground lair below a volcano on some tropical paradise island) it would be awfully tempting to just give up working at being all evil and just kick back and have a really nice life in the sunshine. Let the humans get on with buggering up their own lives for a change.

There is another theory which says that this has already happened.

dafydd · 17th April 2012, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

So the troll still has nothing besides his paranoid delusions to back up his conspiracy theory about evil Jews running the Fed. Shocker.

The troll is still getting the attention that he desperately seeks. If you really want to annoy him then ignore him.

SpringHallConvert · 17th April 2012, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

The troll is still getting the attention that he desperately seeks. If you really want to annoy him then ignore him.

Yes, yes, put me on 'ignore'. I've had at least a dozen people publicly announce that they've put me on 'ignore', and all it's resulted in is my posting at JREF with increased frequency.

I relish the day when I have the floor all to myself.

Jack by the hedge · 17th April 2012, 04:28 AM

Since all your posts amount to nothing more than a boring repetition of "you can't prove anything is real, therefore I can reject all evidence and whatever I dream up is equally valid" that day probably isn't far off.

dafydd · 17th April 2012, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge

Since all your posts amount to nothing more than a boring repetition of "you can't prove anything is real, therefore I can reject all evidence and whatever I dream up is equally valid" that day probably isn't far off.

Actually reading his posts is a complete waste of time. Any thread that he is involved in is vastly improved by judicious use of the ignore button.

SpringHallConvert · 17th April 2012, 04:40 AM

Edited by kmortis:

Removed personal comment and improperly masked word.

Dancing David · 17th April 2012, 04:44 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

For one thing, gold has a limited supply that doesn't quickly change, which mirrors the economy and the supply of goods and services. It can't be printed up and counterfeited and expanded just by pushing a button on a printing press. Gold represents human labor, as each ounce, on average, requires considerable labor to extract from the ground. Gold is consistent as money, and its use as money goes back thousands of years.

Why is interest bearing debt-money superior?

You did not address the question.

there is no value to gold, that is not based upon some abstracted meaning. It is exactly the same as paper money in that way. The value is totally arbitrary.

I made no claims as to any superiority of money as currency.

Dancing David · 17th April 2012, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

What's life worth with no air!?!?

OMG! Call the Fed! Tell them we need air-backed currency, quick!

It was your poor statement in the first place. makes as much sense as a gold based currency.

ngc6205 · 17th April 2012, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Prove they are delusions. Post your evidence showing how the Federal Reserve works as stated. You can't. Do you know why? Because NOBODY has the authority to audit the Federal Reserve's open market operations. Not Congress, not the president, nobody. If Congress wants to audit the Fed's open market operations, they have to go and ask nicely, but the Federal Reserve can still say, "no, now go pound sand!".

As a result, nobody has any real idea what the Fed does. They simply aren't accountable to anyone.

Wrong. The independent financial audits are NOT limited. The results of the open market operations are a part of the financial statement audits performed as required by 12 USC 248b.

While the GAO audits are limited by the restrictions listed in 31 USC 714, those restrictions were placed there by law which Congress wrote. If Congress wanted to, that law could be changed. In fact, the Dodd-Frank Act specifically required the GAO to perform various different audits of the Federal Reserve which included several areas that would have been restricted by 31 USC 714b. See Sections 1108 and 1109 of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act.

Regardless, I am sure that you won't let facts get in the way of your delusions.

SpringHallConvert · 17th April 2012, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by ngc6205

Wrong. The independent financial audits are NOT limited.

False, they are. Not only that, but you're speculating as to whether they are truly "independent" or not.

Regardless, I am sure that you won't let facts get in the way of your delusions.

Border Reiver · 17th April 2012, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Yes, yes, put me on 'ignore'. I've had at least a dozen people publicly announce that they've put me on 'ignore', and all it's resulted in is my posting at JREF with increased frequency.

I relish the day when I have the floor all to myself.

You WANT to be the loon on the old milkcrate in park yelling at passers-by while the world walks on past?

Border Reiver · 17th April 2012, 05:34 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world.

Only fools buy it, though.

Partially true - sometimes it's the middle class dudes dressing up their social club with kitsch. (My Dad is a Mason and he hardly qualifies as rich).

dafydd · 17th April 2012, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by Border Reiver

Partially true - sometimes it's the middle class dudes dressing up their social club with kitsch. (My Dad is a Mason and he hardly qualifies as rich).

My dad was a Mason and he was a lathe operator. He helped to control the world from the safety of the Hoover's factory floor.

OneTime · 17th April 2012, 06:39 AM

We live in a world where we use the five senses to navigate and experience this third dimension. I could argue however, that there is a sixth sense that operates in the sub conscious. Symbolism and numerology that is used by the powers that be and is shoved in our faces all the time but most people don't recognize it.

I referred earlier to the freemasonic symbology on the dollar bill but didn't go into any detail about it. Lets have a closer look and analyse the symbology:

Here we have a 13 layered pyramid with the all seeing eye seperate at the top where the light shines. 13 is consistent in freemasonic numerology and symbolism. 12 complete cycles and 13 represents transformation of rebirt and regeneration.

The 13 letters 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means 'he has favoured our undertakings'.

'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' translates to new social order or new world order.

The roman numerals at the bottom signify 1776 eg. independance day.

On the right hand seal there is a lot more 13 symbolism:

The eagle represents the egyptian hawk Horus, it sits below 13 stars and holds a shield that has 13 stripes. It holds an olive branch in its claws with 13 leafs which is supposed to represent peace. The other claw holds 13 arrows that represent war. Supposedly 13 is an unlucky number if you're the superstitious type. Hotels skip the 13th floor for this reason. It's funny how man holds such superstitions yet here is the number 13 portrayed right in front of our very eyes in cryptic code.

The elite go to Bohemian Grove where they worship the owl, and they even managed to get the owl in there in the top right of the dollar bill:

As we connect these dots it becomes clearer that the people in charge have an agenda that the average man would not take notice of. The elite try to programme us into a state of cognitive dissonance. We know that something isn't right but can't quite put our finger on it. So we conform with the masses and laugh at conspiracy theorists who dare have the courage to challenge the status quo.

I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics.

dafydd · 17th April 2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by OneTime

We live in a world where we use the five senses to navigate and experience this third dimension. I could argue however, that there is a sixth sense that operates in the sub conscious. Symbolism and numerology that is used by the powers that be and is shoved in our faces all the time but most people don't recognize it.

I referred earlier to the freemasonic symbology on the dollar bill but didn't go into any detail about it. Lets have a closer look and analyse the symbology:
http://i42.tinypic.com/303ijwo.jpg
Here we have a 13 layered pyramid with the all seeing eye seperate at the top where the light shines. 13 is consistent in freemasonic numerology and symbolism. 12 complete cycles and 13 represents transformation of rebirt and regeneration.

The 13 letters 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means 'he has favoured our undertakings'.

'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' translates to new social order or new world order.

The roman numerals at the bottom signify 1776 eg. independance day.

On the right hand seal there is a lot more 13 symbolism:
http://i39.tinypic.com/166c9it.jpg
The eagle represents the egyptian hawk Horus, it sits below 13 stars and holds a shield that has 13 stripes. It holds an olive branch in its claws with 13 leafs which is supposed to represent peace. The other claw holds 13 arrows that represent war. Supposedly 13 is an unlucky number if you're the superstitious type. Hotels skip the 13th floor for this reason. It's funny how man holds such superstitions yet here is the number 13 portrayed right in front of our very eyes in cryptic code.

The elite go to Bohemian Grove where they worship the owl, and they even managed to get the owl in there in the top right of the dollar bill:
http://i39.tinypic.com/2wmjkbb.jpg
As we connect these dots it becomes clearer that the people in charge have an agenda that the average man would not take notice of. The elite try to programme us into a state of cognitive dissonance. We know that something isn't right but can't quite put our finger on it. So we conform with the masses and laugh at conspiracy theorists who dare have the courage to challenge the status quo.

I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics.

If that is food for thought then we are all on hunger strike. Who are these people in charge? First they start a secret conspiracy to rule the world from the Colonies in the eighteenth century, then they put the proof all over the dollar bill. A brilliant idea.

JimBenArm · 17th April 2012, 06:49 AM

It's the NFL owners.

dafydd · 17th April 2012, 06:58 AM

I can now reveal the truth. The world is run by the Lord Of The World from his super top secret retreat in Shamballa.
http://esoterism.ro/english/shamballa.php

http://www.heisback.com.au/Spiritual_Government.html

fess · 17th April 2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

Not to your satisfaction, I can't. Just do your own research into Freemasonry and find out for yourself.

No, you can’t prove it to my satisfaction, nor can you prove it to the satisfaction of any other sane member of this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert
False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world.

Only fools buy it, though.

But do keep trying won’t you? We might let you be one of the clowns in the next circus.

fess · 17th April 2012, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by OneTime

I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics.

In other words, you are trying to feed us BS?

Tomtomkent · 17th April 2012, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by OneTime

As we connect these dots it becomes clearer that the people in charge have an agenda that the average man would not take notice of.

No it becomes clear that the US wanted suitable iconography on their money to look like actual currency, wanted symbols that distinguished them from the British state they were trying to seperate themselves from, and would ideally make it difficult for forgers. Not unreasonably they may well have chosen the term "new social order," but instead they chose 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' which means "New Order for all Ages", or as Huxley had it "Brave New World". Which was the very intention, the very reason for the US in spirit, but the "New World" was a commonplace term for the colonies. 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means "Beginning of the Year". So much for THAT claim right? The actual statement "Annuit cœptis" is "He Approves" or "He nods", which makes me incredibly anal about how I correct your spelling, but tshould highlight the emphasise. The "He" is God. "God approves of our undertakings", is pretty much the seal you would expect from the newly minted (baddum tsh!) US.

So why thirteen? That has to be signs of dodgy dealings and masons right?
No. Thirteen is repeated over and again to mean the thirteen states of the original union. No deeper meaning is needed or proven.

Much of the rest of your symbolism is back to front. You have taken symbols on the note, that have obvous meanings and tried to find other meanings that better suit your conclusions. The Eagle is Horus? Sure... Because the American Eagle isn't you know, a readily recognisable native species, that has its own symbolism? The owl? Sure that has to mean a secret society, not wisdom, or watchfulness... That would be too obvious.

Originally Posted by OneTime

The elite try to programme us into a state of cognitive dissonance. We know that something isn't right but can't quite put our finger on it. So we conform with the masses and laugh at conspiracy theorists who dare have the courage to challenge the status quo.

Whoa there sparky! You missed a few steps on the old logical express there. Even assuming your theories on the symbollism HAD BEEN correct, they don't suggest this at all. None of that is in anyway contained in your deductions, nor easily extrapolated from it. Assume for a second those symbols were on there for those reasons? You could deduce that maybe they suggested the founding fathers included Masons, that they sociallised in a way that they were well known to do. (Benjamin Franklin was one of the most popular faces on Masonic pendants and medals. He was a celebrity of the day.) It is a step forwards to determine that there was a further motive for the symbols being used and several huge leaps to deduce THIS is the reason.

Originally Posted by OneTime

I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics.

Proof? It isn't even coherent. You really need to show me where on the note masonic symbols translate to "Programming a state of cognitive dissonance" with the intention of making people "laugh at the conspiracy theorist"? Really?

ngc6205 · 17th April 2012, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert

False, they are. Not only that, but you're speculating as to whether they are truly "independent" or not.

Regardless, I am sure that you won't let facts get in the way of your delusions.

No, not false. The limitations ONLY apply to GAO audits. The audits performed by an external and independent auditing firm are not limited by the restrictions of 31 USC 714. Independence in regards to performing audits is well defined. Of course, if you knew anything about financial auditing, you would know that.

I also note that you completely ignored the fact that Congress can and has changed the law concerning the Federal Reserve and what can and cannot be audited by the GAO.

I am not deluded. I live in the real world not in some fantasy la-la land where things supposedly happen because you claim they do.

CORed · 17th April 2012, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by dudalb

Anybody Guess When SHC is going to offer facts in defense of his theories instead of just more rhetoric?
About when the Devil can step outside his front door and go Ice Skating, me thinks.

I think the heat death of the universe is likely to occur first.

jaydeehess · 17th April 2012, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by The Dark Lord

Is it the Freemasons or the Jews? Or are the top Freemasons all Jews?

It would be rather difficult to be a fundementalist Jew and agree to take the Mason oath. Not that I am free to divulge what I mean.

jaydeehess · 17th April 2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

No it becomes clear that the US wanted suitable iconography on their money to look like actual currency, wanted symbols that distinguished them from the British state they were trying to seperate themselves from, and would ideally make it difficult for forgers. Not unreasonably they may well have chosen the term "new social order," but instead they chose 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' which means "New Order for all Ages", or as Huxley had it "Brave New World". Which was the very intention, the very reason for the US in spirit, but the "New World" was a commonplace term for the colonies. 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means "Beginning of the Year". So much for THAT claim right? The actual statement "Annuit cœptis" is "He Approves" or "He nods", which makes me incredibly anal about how I correct your spelling, but tshould highlight the emphasise. The "He" is God. "God approves of our undertakings", is pretty much the seal you would expect from the newly minted (baddum tsh!) US.

So why thirteen? That has to be signs of dodgy dealings and masons right?
No. Thirteen is repeated over and again to mean the thirteen states of the original union. No deeper meaning is needed or proven.

Much of the rest of your symbolism is back to front. You have taken symbols on the note, that have obvous meanings and tried to find other meanings that better suit your conclusions. The Eagle is Horus? Sure... Because the American Eagle isn't you know, a readily recognisable native species, that has its own symbolism? The owl? Sure that has to mean a secret society, not wisdom, or watchfulness... That would be too obvious.

Whoa there sparky! You missed a few steps on the old logical express there. Even assuming your theories on the symbollism HAD BEEN correct, they don't suggest this at all. None of that is in anyway contained in your deductions, nor easily extrapolated from it. Assume for a second those symbols were on there for those reasons? You could deduce that maybe they suggested the founding fathers included Masons, that they sociallised in a way that they were well known to do. (Benjamin Franklin was one of the most popular faces on Masonic pendants and medals. He was a celebrity of the day.) It is a step forwards to determine that there was a further motive for the symbols being used and several huge leaps to deduce THIS is the reason.

Proof? It isn't even coherent. You really need to show me where on the note masonic symbols translate to "Programming a state of cognitive dissonance" with the intention of making people "laugh at the conspiracy theorist"? Really?

+1

13!!! I blame Delaware!

What really makes me laugh about OneTime's reiteration of this conspiracy is that it HAS TO be limited to one single country, the USA.

What about the other 5.7 BILLION people?
What about Canada, the USA's closest neighbour(yes Mexico also borders the USA but Canadian culture most closesly matches that of the USA AND our common border is the freest in the entire world.) Our currency contains none of the supposed nefarious signs, certainly no references to the number 13, or a Brave New World/ New World Order. The animals on our currency are varied, beaver, moose, Blue Jays, polar bears, each and every one of which is native to the country. Granted we could include the bald eagle since Canada actually now has as many as, or more of them than, the USA, but we leave that to you.

jaydeehess · 17th April 2012, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by CORed

I think the heat death of the universe is likely to occur first.

or monkeys flying out of dark nether regions.

John Albert · 17th April 2012, 12:20 PM

The "New Order for the Ages" was a prediction that has actually come to pass: a new sociopolitical order based on Enlightenment ideals of individual freedom and equality, where representational government and economic mobility have replaced the old, rigid, hierarchical society dominated by kings, nobility and religious figures.

Clayton Moore · 17th April 2012, 12:46 PM

The ruling element has always needed someplace to hide. The first hid behind physical strength.

aggle-rithm · 17th April 2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

The ruling element has always needed someplace to hide. The first hid behind physical strength.

Can you name three members of the ruling element?

Tomtomkent · 17th April 2012, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Clayton Moore

The ruling element has always needed someplace to hide. The first hid behind physical strength.

Were they particularly well hidden, or did people know who they were?

Clayton Moore · 17th April 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

Were they particularly well hidden, or did people know who they were?

I'm sure they did when he threatened them with a knuckle sandwich.

realpaladin · 17th April 2012, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by aggle-rithm

Can you name three members of the ruling element?

Last night my wife confessed to being the leader of the Illuminati.

Fnord.

16th April 2012, 10:22 PM	#482
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,336	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert So? Much like a government hierarchy, the structure of Freemasonry is highly compartmentalized. The outer rings have no idea what the inner rings are doing, and even many of the inner rings have no idea who or what is at the center of Freemasonry. Yes they do: more masons. What is at the middle is more masons. No dark secrets, no secret government, no relics from the temple of solomon, just rich people who dress up their rotary club in kitsch. That is the result of research as you are in your "do your own research" mood. The masonshave wonderful archives, museums and libraries. Now the thing is the burden of proof is on you. So if you can't prove an assertion to the satisfaction of a critical thinker the answer is not that we have to research it (and come to a different conclusion), it is that your statements are unfounded until you have facts.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

16th April 2012, 10:26 PM	#483
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,336	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert You just did. You can't help but flail about wildly. Clearly if you place a blindfold on any boxer above featherweight they start asking for evidence based validations of their openents assertion. It allows for a technical win on points in the olympics. Alternatively, you are wrong.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

17th April 2012, 12:12 AM	#485
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860	Is it the Freemasons or the Jews? Or are the top Freemasons all Jews?
The Dark Lord Suspended Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,860

17th April 2012, 12:15 AM	#486
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,336	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world. Only fools buy it, though. Ok. You have me bang to rights. There are also golf days, ceremonies in which I dress as a knight templar, charitable donations to the impoverished, students, and community projects. The deepest darkest secrets are the social callender... Scary. Isn't it.
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

17th April 2012, 01:25 AM	#488
jargon buster Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 4,261	SHC Wrote Quote: So? Much like a government hierarchy, the structure of Freemasonry is highly compartmentalized. The outer rings have no idea what the inner rings are doing, and even many of the inner rings have no idea who or what is at the center of Freemasonry. Thats not an ideal way to run an organisation thats alledgedly running the world is it? Wouldnt it be better if the right hand knew what the left was doing?
	__________________ ^{^{“She’s pregnant and in very big trouble.” ......And wasn't she just}} http://www.angelfire.com/planet/thin...hildorlife.pdf Part 1 of this thread http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=176799

16th April 2012, 09:29 PM	#481
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by fess Certainly, you can prove this gibberish… right? Not to your satisfaction, I can't. Just do your own research into Freemasonry and find out for yourself.

17th April 2012, 12:10 AM	#484
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent Yes they do: more masons. What is at the middle is more masons. No dark secrets, no secret government, no relics from the temple of solomon, just rich people who dress up their rotary club in kitsch. False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world. Only fools buy it, though.

17th April 2012, 12:56 AM	#487
nomuse Muse Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: People's Republic of Berkeley Posts: 746	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent Ok. You have me bang to rights. There are also golf days, ceremonies in which I dress as a knight templar, charitable donations to the impoverished, students, and community projects. The deepest darkest secrets are the social callender... Scary. Isn't it. Worse than that. Whenever I think of the terrible Masonic threat, I think of fezzes and really tiny cars... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shriners (Ah, but that's just what they WANT you to think! They are trying to get you off your guard!)

17th April 2012, 01:50 AM	#489
nomuse Muse Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: People's Republic of Berkeley Posts: 746	Friend of mine had two comments: "If only four people know they are secretly running the world, then who cares?" "Considering all the different conspiracies they are responsible for (faking the moon landing, fluoridating the water, starting wars, hiding Bigfoot) they must have a really, really busy day."

17th April 2012, 02:15 AM	#490
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,507	Originally Posted by nomuse "If only four people know they are secretly running the world, then who cares?" The best thing about that job would be that if they all just took the day off and went to the beach, nobody would ever know. In fact (presuming that they work in an underground lair below a volcano on some tropical paradise island) it would be awfully tempting to just give up working at being all evil and just kick back and have a really nice life in the sunshine. Let the humans get on with buggering up their own lives for a change. There is another theory which says that this has already happened.

17th April 2012, 03:57 AM	#491
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord So the troll still has nothing besides his paranoid delusions to back up his conspiracy theory about evil Jews running the Fed. Shocker. The troll is still getting the attention that he desperately seeks. If you really want to annoy him then ignore him.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

17th April 2012, 04:06 AM	#492
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by dafydd The troll is still getting the attention that he desperately seeks. If you really want to annoy him then ignore him. Yes, yes, put me on 'ignore'. I've had at least a dozen people publicly announce that they've put me on 'ignore', and all it's resulted in is my posting at JREF with increased frequency. I relish the day when I have the floor all to myself.

17th April 2012, 04:28 AM	#493
Jack by the hedge Safely Ignored Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5,507	Since all your posts amount to nothing more than a boring repetition of "you can't prove anything is real, therefore I can reject all evidence and whatever I dream up is equally valid" that day probably isn't far off.

17th April 2012, 04:30 AM	#494
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge Since all your posts amount to nothing more than a boring repetition of "you can't prove anything is real, therefore I can reject all evidence and whatever I dream up is equally valid" that day probably isn't far off. Actually reading his posts is a complete waste of time. Any thread that he is involved in is vastly improved by judicious use of the ignore button.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

17th April 2012, 04:44 AM	#496
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,919	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert For one thing, gold has a limited supply that doesn't quickly change, which mirrors the economy and the supply of goods and services. It can't be printed up and counterfeited and expanded just by pushing a button on a printing press. Gold represents human labor, as each ounce, on average, requires considerable labor to extract from the ground. Gold is consistent as money, and its use as money goes back thousands of years. Why is interest bearing debt-money superior? You did not address the question. there is no value to gold, that is not based upon some abstracted meaning. It is exactly the same as paper money in that way. The value is totally arbitrary. I made no claims as to any superiority of money as currency.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager

17th April 2012, 04:47 AM	#497
Dancing David Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Central Illinois Posts: 34,919	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert What's life worth with no air!?!? OMG! Call the Fed! Tell them we need air-backed currency, quick! It was your poor statement in the first place. makes as much sense as a gold based currency.
	__________________ Hell, dynamiting fish in a barrel is more challenging. - Ladewig I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager Last edited by Dancing David; 17th April 2012 at 04:53 AM.

17th April 2012, 04:56 AM	#498
ngc6205 Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Here. I used to be there, but I moved. Posts: 303	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Prove they are delusions. Post your evidence showing how the Federal Reserve works as stated. You can't. Do you know why? Because NOBODY has the authority to audit the Federal Reserve's open market operations. Not Congress, not the president, nobody. If Congress wants to audit the Fed's open market operations, they have to go and ask nicely, but the Federal Reserve can still say, "no, now go pound sand!". As a result, nobody has any real idea what the Fed does. They simply aren't accountable to anyone. Wrong. The independent financial audits are NOT limited. The results of the open market operations are a part of the financial statement audits performed as required by 12 USC 248b. While the GAO audits are limited by the restrictions listed in 31 USC 714, those restrictions were placed there by law which Congress wrote. If Congress wanted to, that law could be changed. In fact, the Dodd-Frank Act specifically required the GAO to perform various different audits of the Federal Reserve which included several areas that would have been restricted by 31 USC 714b. See Sections 1108 and 1109 of the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act. Regardless, I am sure that you won't let facts get in the way of your delusions.
	__________________ "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." - Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, while attempting to convince the school board to introduce creationism into the public schools.

17th April 2012, 05:07 AM	#499
SpringHallConvert Banned Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,272	Originally Posted by ngc6205 Wrong. The independent financial audits are NOT limited. False, they are. Not only that, but you're speculating as to whether they are truly "independent" or not. Regardless, I am sure that you won't let facts get in the way of your delusions.

17th April 2012, 05:32 AM	#500
Border Reiver Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 2,245	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Yes, yes, put me on 'ignore'. I've had at least a dozen people publicly announce that they've put me on 'ignore', and all it's resulted in is my posting at JREF with increased frequency. I relish the day when I have the floor all to myself. You WANT to be the loon on the old milkcrate in park yelling at passers-by while the world walks on past?
	__________________ Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?

17th April 2012, 05:34 AM	#501
Border Reiver Master Poster Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ottawa, ON Posts: 2,245	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world. Only fools buy it, though. Partially true - sometimes it's the middle class dudes dressing up their social club with kitsch. (My Dad is a Mason and he hardly qualifies as rich).
	__________________ Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?

17th April 2012, 06:22 AM	#502
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by Border Reiver Partially true - sometimes it's the middle class dudes dressing up their social club with kitsch. (My Dad is a Mason and he hardly qualifies as rich). My dad was a Mason and he was a lathe operator. He helped to control the world from the safety of the Hoover's factory floor.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

17th April 2012, 06:39 AM	#503
OneTime Student Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 32	Connect the dots We live in a world where we use the five senses to navigate and experience this third dimension. I could argue however, that there is a sixth sense that operates in the sub conscious. Symbolism and numerology that is used by the powers that be and is shoved in our faces all the time but most people don't recognize it. I referred earlier to the freemasonic symbology on the dollar bill but didn't go into any detail about it. Lets have a closer look and analyse the symbology: Here we have a 13 layered pyramid with the all seeing eye seperate at the top where the light shines. 13 is consistent in freemasonic numerology and symbolism. 12 complete cycles and 13 represents transformation of rebirt and regeneration. The 13 letters 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means 'he has favoured our undertakings'. 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' translates to new social order or new world order. The roman numerals at the bottom signify 1776 eg. independance day. On the right hand seal there is a lot more 13 symbolism: The eagle represents the egyptian hawk Horus, it sits below 13 stars and holds a shield that has 13 stripes. It holds an olive branch in its claws with 13 leafs which is supposed to represent peace. The other claw holds 13 arrows that represent war. Supposedly 13 is an unlucky number if you're the superstitious type. Hotels skip the 13th floor for this reason. It's funny how man holds such superstitions yet here is the number 13 portrayed right in front of our very eyes in cryptic code. The elite go to Bohemian Grove where they worship the owl, and they even managed to get the owl in there in the top right of the dollar bill: As we connect these dots it becomes clearer that the people in charge have an agenda that the average man would not take notice of. The elite try to programme us into a state of cognitive dissonance. We know that something isn't right but can't quite put our finger on it. So we conform with the masses and laugh at conspiracy theorists who dare have the courage to challenge the status quo. I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics.
OneTime Student Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 32	Last edited by OneTime; 17th April 2012 at 06:42 AM.

17th April 2012, 06:47 AM	#504
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by OneTime We live in a world where we use the five senses to navigate and experience this third dimension. I could argue however, that there is a sixth sense that operates in the sub conscious. Symbolism and numerology that is used by the powers that be and is shoved in our faces all the time but most people don't recognize it. I referred earlier to the freemasonic symbology on the dollar bill but didn't go into any detail about it. Lets have a closer look and analyse the symbology: http://i42.tinypic.com/303ijwo.jpg Here we have a 13 layered pyramid with the all seeing eye seperate at the top where the light shines. 13 is consistent in freemasonic numerology and symbolism. 12 complete cycles and 13 represents transformation of rebirt and regeneration. The 13 letters 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means 'he has favoured our undertakings'. 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' translates to new social order or new world order. The roman numerals at the bottom signify 1776 eg. independance day. On the right hand seal there is a lot more 13 symbolism: http://i39.tinypic.com/166c9it.jpg The eagle represents the egyptian hawk Horus, it sits below 13 stars and holds a shield that has 13 stripes. It holds an olive branch in its claws with 13 leafs which is supposed to represent peace. The other claw holds 13 arrows that represent war. Supposedly 13 is an unlucky number if you're the superstitious type. Hotels skip the 13th floor for this reason. It's funny how man holds such superstitions yet here is the number 13 portrayed right in front of our very eyes in cryptic code. The elite go to Bohemian Grove where they worship the owl, and they even managed to get the owl in there in the top right of the dollar bill: http://i39.tinypic.com/2wmjkbb.jpg As we connect these dots it becomes clearer that the people in charge have an agenda that the average man would not take notice of. The elite try to programme us into a state of cognitive dissonance. We know that something isn't right but can't quite put our finger on it. So we conform with the masses and laugh at conspiracy theorists who dare have the courage to challenge the status quo. I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics. If that is food for thought then we are all on hunger strike. Who are these people in charge? First they start a secret conspiracy to rule the world from the Colonies in the eighteenth century, then they put the proof all over the dollar bill. A brilliant idea.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 17th April 2012 at 06:51 AM.

17th April 2012, 06:49 AM	#505
JimBenArm Based on a true story! Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 13,018	It's the NFL owners.
	__________________ *"JimBenArm is right"* Hokulele Mom

17th April 2012, 06:58 AM	#506
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	I can now reveal the truth. The world is run by the Lord Of The World from his super top secret retreat in Shamballa. http://esoterism.ro/english/shamballa.php http://www.heisback.com.au/Spiritual_Government.html
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

17th April 2012, 07:40 AM	#507
fess Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hiding in the sticks. Posts: 1,043	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert Not to your satisfaction, I can't. Just do your own research into Freemasonry and find out for yourself. No, you can’t prove it to my satisfaction, nor can you prove it to the satisfaction of any other sane member of this forum. Quote: Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert False, that's just the image the Freemasons like to present to the world. Only fools buy it, though. But do keep trying won’t you? We might let you be one of the clowns in the next circus.
	__________________ My boss told me to stop procrastinating. I think I will… tomorrow.

17th April 2012, 07:44 AM	#508
fess Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Hiding in the sticks. Posts: 1,043	Originally Posted by OneTime I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics. In other words, you are trying to feed us BS?
	__________________ My boss told me to stop procrastinating. I think I will… tomorrow.

17th April 2012, 08:01 AM	#509
Tomtomkent Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Kent, United Kingdom Posts: 5,336	Originally Posted by OneTime As we connect these dots it becomes clearer that the people in charge have an agenda that the average man would not take notice of. No it becomes clear that the US wanted suitable iconography on their money to look like actual currency, wanted symbols that distinguished them from the British state they were trying to seperate themselves from, and would ideally make it difficult for forgers. Not unreasonably they may well have chosen the term "new social order," but instead they chose 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' which means "New Order for all Ages", or as Huxley had it "Brave New World". Which was the very intention, the very reason for the US in spirit, but the "New World" was a commonplace term for the colonies. 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means "Beginning of the Year". So much for THAT claim right? The actual statement "Annuit cœptis" is "He Approves" or "He nods", which makes me incredibly anal about how I correct your spelling, but tshould highlight the emphasise. The "He" is God. "God approves of our undertakings", is pretty much the seal you would expect from the newly minted (baddum tsh!) US. So why thirteen? That has to be signs of dodgy dealings and masons right? No. Thirteen is repeated over and again to mean the thirteen states of the original union. No deeper meaning is needed or proven. Much of the rest of your symbolism is back to front. You have taken symbols on the note, that have obvous meanings and tried to find other meanings that better suit your conclusions. The Eagle is Horus? Sure... Because the American Eagle isn't you know, a readily recognisable native species, that has its own symbolism? The owl? Sure that has to mean a secret society, not wisdom, or watchfulness... That would be too obvious. Originally Posted by OneTime The elite try to programme us into a state of cognitive dissonance. We know that something isn't right but can't quite put our finger on it. So we conform with the masses and laugh at conspiracy theorists who dare have the courage to challenge the status quo. Whoa there sparky! You missed a few steps on the old logical express there. Even assuming your theories on the symbollism HAD BEEN correct, they don't suggest this at all. None of that is in anyway contained in your deductions, nor easily extrapolated from it. Assume for a second those symbols were on there for those reasons? You could deduce that maybe they suggested the founding fathers included Masons, that they sociallised in a way that they were well known to do. (Benjamin Franklin was one of the most popular faces on Masonic pendants and medals. He was a celebrity of the day.) It is a step forwards to determine that there was a further motive for the symbols being used and several huge leaps to deduce THIS is the reason. Originally Posted by OneTime I know this isn't proof that there is an over arching conspiracy to enslave humanity, just food for thought for you skeptics. Proof? It isn't even coherent. You really need to show me where on the note masonic symbols translate to "Programming a state of cognitive dissonance" with the intention of making people "laugh at the conspiracy theorist"? Really?
	__________________ @tomhodden No animals were harmed in the making of this post.

17th April 2012, 08:02 AM	#510
ngc6205 Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Here. I used to be there, but I moved. Posts: 303	Originally Posted by SpringHallConvert False, they are. Not only that, but you're speculating as to whether they are truly "independent" or not. Regardless, I am sure that you won't let facts get in the way of your delusions. No, not false. The limitations ONLY apply to GAO audits. The audits performed by an external and independent auditing firm are not limited by the restrictions of 31 USC 714. Independence in regards to performing audits is well defined. Of course, if you knew anything about financial auditing, you would know that. I also note that you completely ignored the fact that Congress can and has changed the law concerning the Federal Reserve and what can and cannot be audited by the GAO. I am not deluded. I live in the real world not in some fantasy la-la land where things supposedly happen because you claim they do.
	__________________ "We've been attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture." - Pastor Ray Mummert, Dover, PA, while attempting to convince the school board to introduce creationism into the public schools.

17th April 2012, 09:51 AM	#511
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,349	Originally Posted by dudalb Anybody Guess When SHC is going to offer facts in defense of his theories instead of just more rhetoric? About when the Devil can step outside his front door and go Ice Skating, me thinks. I think the heat death of the universe is likely to occur first.
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,349

17th April 2012, 11:09 AM	#512
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,966	Originally Posted by The Dark Lord Is it the Freemasons or the Jews? Or are the top Freemasons all Jews? It would be rather difficult to be a fundementalist Jew and agree to take the Mason oath. Not that I am free to divulge what I mean.

17th April 2012, 11:20 AM	#513
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,966	Originally Posted by Tomtomkent No it becomes clear that the US wanted suitable iconography on their money to look like actual currency, wanted symbols that distinguished them from the British state they were trying to seperate themselves from, and would ideally make it difficult for forgers. Not unreasonably they may well have chosen the term "new social order," but instead they chose 'NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM' which means "New Order for all Ages", or as Huxley had it "Brave New World". Which was the very intention, the very reason for the US in spirit, but the "New World" was a commonplace term for the colonies. 'ANNUIT COEPTIS' means "Beginning of the Year". So much for THAT claim right? The actual statement "Annuit cœptis" is "He Approves" or "He nods", which makes me incredibly anal about how I correct your spelling, but tshould highlight the emphasise. The "He" is God. "God approves of our undertakings", is pretty much the seal you would expect from the newly minted (baddum tsh!) US. So why thirteen? That has to be signs of dodgy dealings and masons right? No. Thirteen is repeated over and again to mean the thirteen states of the original union. No deeper meaning is needed or proven. Much of the rest of your symbolism is back to front. You have taken symbols on the note, that have obvous meanings and tried to find other meanings that better suit your conclusions. The Eagle is Horus? Sure... Because the American Eagle isn't you know, a readily recognisable native species, that has its own symbolism? The owl? Sure that has to mean a secret society, not wisdom, or watchfulness... That would be too obvious. Whoa there sparky! You missed a few steps on the old logical express there. Even assuming your theories on the symbollism HAD BEEN correct, they don't suggest this at all. None of that is in anyway contained in your deductions, nor easily extrapolated from it. Assume for a second those symbols were on there for those reasons? You could deduce that maybe they suggested the founding fathers included Masons, that they sociallised in a way that they were well known to do. (Benjamin Franklin was one of the most popular faces on Masonic pendants and medals. He was a celebrity of the day.) It is a step forwards to determine that there was a further motive for the symbols being used and several huge leaps to deduce THIS is the reason. Proof? It isn't even coherent. You really need to show me where on the note masonic symbols translate to "Programming a state of cognitive dissonance" with the intention of making people "laugh at the conspiracy theorist"? Really? +1 13!!! I blame Delaware! What really makes me laugh about OneTime's reiteration of this conspiracy is that it HAS TO be limited to one single country, the USA. What about the other 5.7 BILLION people? What about Canada, the USA's closest neighbour(yes Mexico also borders the USA but Canadian culture most closesly matches that of the USA AND our common border is the freest in the entire world.) Our currency contains none of the supposed nefarious signs, certainly no references to the number 13, or a Brave New World/ New World Order. The animals on our currency are varied, beaver, moose, Blue Jays, polar bears, each and every one of which is native to the country. Granted we could include the bald eagle since Canada actually now has as many as, or more of them than, the USA, but we leave that to you.

17th April 2012, 11:21 AM	#514
jaydeehess Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: I beedunk 40 miles from the border Posts: 10,966	Originally Posted by CORed I think the heat death of the universe is likely to occur first. or monkeys flying out of dark nether regions.

17th April 2012, 12:20 PM	#515
John Albert Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,143	The "New Order for the Ages" was a prediction that has actually come to pass: a new sociopolitical order based on Enlightenment ideals of individual freedom and equality, where representational government and economic mobility have replaced the old, rigid, hierarchical society dominated by kings, nobility and religious figures.
John Albert Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 3,143	__________________ “In religion and politics, people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.” —Mark Twain

17th April 2012, 12:46 PM	#516
Clayton Moore Philosopher Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 6,353	The ruling element has always needed someplace to hide. The first hid behind physical strength.
	__________________ Shitat Matzliach is why the Holohoax works. The same neoconservative scum who engineered 9/11 and got the US into two wars want American troops to sacrifice their lives in Syria and Iran. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhc7M...Mc4eb2TClVRQws http://rememberbuilding7.org/10/#aevideo http://www2.ae911truth.org/actionale...rBuilding7.php