Could Perot have won in '92 if he had run a better campaign?

Puppycow · 15th April 2012, 08:33 PM

There was a brief time in the spring and summer of '92 when I myself and many other Americans were briefly enthralled by a folksy, charismatic, straight-talking independent candidate for president. I liked the idea that he wasn't beholden to either of the major political parties and that he seemed to be a lot more honest and straightforward about the problems facing the country than the other two candidates. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) his candidacy went off the rails due to some bizarre behavior by the candidate himself, especially the fact that he dropped out of the race for a weeks and then decided to jump back in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...erot_candidacy

Quote:

In June, Perot led the national public opinion polls with support from 39% of the voters (versus 31% for Bush and 25% for Clinton).[4] Perot severely damaged his credibility by dropping out of the presidential contest in July and remaining out of the race for several weeks before re-entering. He compounded this damage by eventually claiming, without evidence, that his withdrawal was due to Republican operatives attempting to disrupt his daughter's wedding.[5]

Dropping out of the race was clearly the biggest mistake he made in the race. I had been one of those leaning towards him up until that point, but by the time he jumped back in, I was no longer enthralled and had returned to my default party, the Democrats.

I still think he could have won if he had run a better campaign and had understood that the attacks aimed in his direction were just something that every candidate for president has to weather. It comes with the territory. Perhaps it was inevitable that the political machines arrayed against him would have eventually ground him down anyway with negative advertising, but I think he could have weathered that if only he had reacted better than he did.

BenBurch · 16th April 2012, 06:04 AM

Thing is; he wouldn't have had either congress or senate.

tyr_13 · 16th April 2012, 06:16 AM

Well yes, he could have. But that's like saying I could have beat Tyson in his prime if I were a better boxer. The reasons he didn't, and couldn't, run a better campaign are the same reasons that would keep him from running an administration well.

NoahFence · 16th April 2012, 06:17 AM

I only didn't vote for him because of his running mate. Same reason I didn't vote for McCain.

Cleon · 16th April 2012, 06:26 AM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

I only didn't vote for him because of his running mate. Same reason I didn't vote for McCain.

Say what you will about Stockdale, but "I turned off my hearing aid" was the best part of that entire election season.

BazBear · 16th April 2012, 06:42 AM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

I only didn't vote for him because of his running mate. Same reason I didn't vote for McCain.

Admiral Stockdale was good man, a patriot, and might have been a good VP...in like 1980 or 84.

And no, I don't think Perot had a real chance of winning.

Bikewer · 16th April 2012, 06:53 AM

The only thing I recall about Perot's positions was his constant use of "All we have to do is....."
I have long maintained that simple answers are rarely correct when it comes to national affairs, and though they may be appealing to people, they rarely work out.

I worked the big three-way debate here in St. Louis... What a mess. Not only Ralph Nader's supporters showed up, but a rag-tag group of "activists" of all sorts. Even dingbat from the Westboro church came with his "God Hates" signs.
(his message didn't fly too well with the strongly-liberal university crowd)

joobie · 16th April 2012, 01:23 PM

my at the time gf and her mother were all about perot. i bet them a steak dinner he wouldn't get any electoral votes. they welched on the bet. jerks.

carlitos · 16th April 2012, 02:08 PM

"That giant sucking sound you hear is jobs going down to Mexico"

In a family of four, we voted for 4 different candidates for President that year - not something that probably happens often. Clinton, Bush, Perot and then I voted for Andre Marrou.

BenBurch · 16th April 2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by carlitos

"That giant sucking sound you hear is jobs going down to Mexico"

In a family of four, we voted for 4 different candidates for President that year - not something that probably happens often. Clinton, Bush, Perot and then I voted for Andre Marrou.

He was sure right about that one.

I voted for Marrou then, too.

Brainster · 16th April 2012, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Say what you will about Stockdale, but "I turned off my hearing aid" was the best part of that entire election season.

This. Imagine being stuck in a debate with Al Gore and Dan Quayle and not being able to turn down the volume. It doesn't bear thinking!

CORed · 16th April 2012, 03:16 PM

I've thought for a long time that Perot was in the race to knock George H. W. Bush out. It's pretty well-known that he did not like Bush, and I think his candidacy had the sole purpose of drawing enough votes away from Bush to keep him from winning. The reason he dropped out and came back in, IMO is that his campaign was more successful than he ever imagined it would be, and it started to look like he had a real chance of winning, or, more likely, getting enough electoral votes to throw the election into the House of Representatives. He dropped out and came back in to make sure he got enough votes do ensure Bush's defeat, but not enough to win the election, or keep either candidate from getting an electoral college majority.

gnome · 16th April 2012, 04:05 PM

How was he doing, state by state, at the time that he dropped out? I'm not sure that's a reasonable conclusion, that he could have thought he was too close to winning.

Spindrift · 16th April 2012, 07:05 PM

June is a long way from November and I don't think you can draw many conclusions from poll data at that time. IMO, the longer Perot was around, the less electable he became, regardless of whether he stayed in the race the whole time or not.

Beerina · 17th April 2012, 05:59 AM

Perot didn't want to win -- he wanted Bush, Sr., to lose. I didn't realize this at the time and felt duped when I figured it out later.

Hence he drops out of the race the morning that Clinton was to give his acceptance speech, and all eyes turn to Clinton, thus invigorating him.

You have to remember that, up until that point, people were making jokes about the Democrats running to a huge defeat that year as they had the previous 3 elections.

Two weeks earlier, SNL made a joke about some worker helping build the Democrats' convention stage saying, "Ahhh, what's the point?" Huge laugh from the audience.

Later Perot gets back in to make sure the vote gets split, and history unfolds differently.

Beerina · 17th April 2012, 06:01 AM

As Perot and Bush, Sr., were both very high in the power circles of the Republicans in the 1970s (Nixon called on Perot at one point to help the NYSE itself from going under), god only knows what BS went between them that led to Perot's behavior.

Bush probably pulled some shenanigans on him, Perot didn't like it, and didn't sit back and take it.

Spindrift · 17th April 2012, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Perot didn't want to win -- he wanted Bush, Sr., to lose. I didn't realize this at the time and felt duped when I figured it out later.

Hence he drops out of the race the morning that Clinton was to give his acceptance speech, and all eyes turn to Clinton, thus invigorating him.

You have to remember that, up until that point, people were making jokes about the Democrats running to a huge defeat that year as they had the previous 3 elections.

Two weeks earlier, SNL made a joke about some worker helping build the Democrats' convention stage saying, "Ahhh, what's the point?" Huge laugh from the audience.

Later Perot gets back in to make sure the vote gets split, and history unfolds differently.

You're using SNL as evidence?

jhunter1163 · 17th April 2012, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by gnome

How was he doing, state by state, at the time that he dropped out? I'm not sure that's a reasonable conclusion, that he could have thought he was too close to winning.

I don't think he would have won, but he very well might have thrown the election into the House. The Democrats had a significant majority (267-167) there so Clinton likely would have won anyway.

shadron · 17th April 2012, 06:37 AM

He had such a nice, no-nonsense, graphical sort of way to make his points. But it started seeming fishy when Morra Liasson (or maybe it was Cokie Roberts) of NPR called him to get an opinion, and he asked her on the recording who she and NPR were. They may not have been one of the major three, but it showed that his background/preparation, like Sarah Palin's, was not of the calibre the job demands.

dudalb · 17th April 2012, 12:36 PM

Given that Perot had the kind of campaign he wanted, no.
As some have pointed out, the more people took a close look at Perot after the initial euphoria,the less the liked him. His habit of publically melting down on several occasions did not help him either.

Howie Felterbush · 17th April 2012, 01:31 PM

Remember when Dennis Miller called Perot, "...a forehead vein in a blue suit"?

That little guy was intense. Probably not President material, but it would have been entertaining.

CORed · 17th April 2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

As Perot and Bush, Sr., were both very high in the power circles of the Republicans in the 1970s (Nixon called on Perot at one point to help the NYSE itself from going under), god only knows what BS went between them that led to Perot's behavior.

Bush probably pulled some shenanigans on him, Perot didn't like it, and didn't sit back and take it.

I remember reading somewhere, I don't remember where, and I have no idea if it was accurate, that Perot strongly believed that there were POW's still in North Vietnam that hadn't been released, and that during the Reagan administration, George H. W. bush was tasked with telling Perot that the Reagan administration wasn't going to make any more effort to find or gain the release of these supposed unreleased POW's and that this was the source of Perot's dislike for Bush.

I reached the conclusion on my own that Perot's real reason for running was to ensure Clinton's victory (or Bush's defeat), but I later found that quite a few other people had come to the same conclusion. IMO, it is the most likely explanation for his behavior of dropping out while making accusations against Bush, then re-entering the race later.

BenBurch · 17th April 2012, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush

Remember when Dennis Miller called Perot, "...a forehead vein in a blue suit"?

That little guy was intense. Probably not President material, but it would have been entertaining.

Remember when Dennis Miller was funny?

Howie Felterbush · 17th April 2012, 04:31 PM

Do you mean when he was on Monday Night Football?

ponderingturtle · 17th April 2012, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bikewer

The only thing I recall about Perot's positions was his constant use of "All we have to do is....."
I have long maintained that simple answers are rarely correct when it comes to national affairs, and though they may be appealing to people, they rarely work out.

I am not sure that matters. They might not make good policy but they make great election fodder, and the question was could he get elected not would he be a good president.

applecorped · 17th April 2012, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Remember when Dennis Miller was funny?

No. When was that?

Dunstan · 17th April 2012, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

No. When was that?

Not sure if I should be taking this seriously, but... his Off-White Album is pretty damn good, and he was one of the best Weekend Update anchors on SNL.

Beerina · 18th April 2012, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Spindrift

You're using SNL as evidence?

As reflective of the sense of what was going on at the time, yes.

It's fanciful to see Clinton's election and re-election in a context of him being Awesome-O since the beginning of time, but that wasn't the case.

He may have won anyway, but Perot was definitely out to help him.

Beerina · 18th April 2012, 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Dunstan

Not sure if I should be taking this seriously, but... his Off-White Album is pretty damn good, and he was one of the best Weekend Update anchors on SNL.

Dennis Miller was the best, and I was pissed when they fired him because he kept making fun of O.J. Simpson, who was a friend of some high executive at NBC.

This was all long before he became a conservative speaker (when not doing comedy) and certain folks feel the need to disdain him because of it.

I like Paula Poundstone, too, and listen to shows like Wait Wait Don't Tell Me on NPR on the weekends, on which she regularly appears. If your brain is so small that someone's politics threatens it, you probably need a different hobby.

Dunstan · 18th April 2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Dennis Miller was the best, and I was pissed when they fired him because he kept making fun of O.J. Simpson, who was a friend of some high executive at NBC.

I think you're confusing him with Norm Macdonald on that point. (The executive was Don Ohlemeyer, and he had disliked Norm and his head Update writer pretty much from the get-go. No doubt the O.J. stuff was part of it, but not the whole story.)

gnome · 19th April 2012, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Beerina

This was all long before he became a conservative speaker (when not doing comedy) and certain folks feel the need to disdain him because of it.

Speaking for myself, I didn't mind that he was and spoke for conservatism--what I found distasteful was that at a certain point he stopped poking fun at both sides, and refused to have conservatives, Bush in particular, be a target.

Not that I insist he should have more Bush jokes, but when you're a political comedian, you're not doing it right if a political figure is immune.

Less specifically, I watched for a little while after that anyway, and I think ramping up his politics came at the expense of being as funny.

Beerina · 22nd April 2012, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by Dunstan

I think you're confusing him with Norm Macdonald on that point. (The executive was Don Ohlemeyer, and he had disliked Norm and his head Update writer pretty much from the get-go. No doubt the O.J. stuff was part of it, but not the whole story.)

Oh ya, my bad!

I love Norm, too. He's a very close second best as SNL news host. Indeed, nobody comes close to those two.

My favorite Norm moment: "This week, Madonna gave birth to her first child. The daughter, named Lourdes, clocked in at 7 pounds 8 ounces, making it the fifth largest object to pass through Madonna's birth canal."

BStrong · 22nd April 2012, 07:22 PM

Anybody that would trust Scott Barnes has no business being in a position of authority over anything:

http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-...l-cajon-police

MattusMaximus · 22nd April 2012, 08:44 PM

I was particularly impressed with Perot's use of his voodoo stick while explaining the national budget on TV.

Really, I was... I voted for him... twice

dc1971 · 22nd April 2012, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by BazBear

Admiral Stockdale was good man, a patriot, and might have been a good VP...in like 1980 or 84.

And no, I don't think Perot had a real chance of winning.

Oh Gee! Spare me the soapbox!

boooeee · 23rd April 2012, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

Oh ya, my bad!

I love Norm, too. He's a very close second best as SNL news host. Indeed, nobody comes close to those two.

My favorite Norm moment: "This week, Madonna gave birth to her first child. The daughter, named Lourdes, clocked in at 7 pounds 8 ounces, making it the fifth largest object to pass through Madonna's birth canal."

Norm is my favorite SNL Weekend Update anchor.

The reason? You guessed it........

varwoche · 23rd April 2012, 08:58 AM

It's possible I suppose. The problem was, one of the things that got in the way was Perot being glaringly nuttier than an almond orchard. He had already come unhinged when he dropped out. For instance, I recall a paranoid freakout about media coverage of his daughter's wedding, or some such thing.

The real question is, could he have won if he wasn't mental.

The Soviet Union has just collapsed; anything seemed possible.

15th April 2012, 08:33 PM	#1
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,707	Could Perot have won in '92 if he had run a better campaign? There was a brief time in the spring and summer of '92 when I myself and many other Americans were briefly enthralled by a folksy, charismatic, straight-talking independent candidate for president. I liked the idea that he wasn't beholden to either of the major political parties and that he seemed to be a lot more honest and straightforward about the problems facing the country than the other two candidates. Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately) his candidacy went off the rails due to some bizarre behavior by the candidate himself, especially the fact that he dropped out of the race for a weeks and then decided to jump back in. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...erot_candidacy Quote: In June, Perot led the national public opinion polls with support from 39% of the voters (versus 31% for Bush and 25% for Clinton).[4] Perot severely damaged his credibility by dropping out of the presidential contest in July and remaining out of the race for several weeks before re-entering. He compounded this damage by eventually claiming, without evidence, that his withdrawal was due to Republican operatives attempting to disrupt his daughter's wedding.[5] Dropping out of the race was clearly the biggest mistake he made in the race. I had been one of those leaning towards him up until that point, but by the time he jumped back in, I was no longer enthralled and had returned to my default party, the Democrats. I still think he could have won if he had run a better campaign and had understood that the attacks aimed in his direction were just something that every candidate for president has to weather. It comes with the territory. Perhaps it was inevitable that the political machines arrayed against him would have eventually ground him down anyway with negative advertising, but I think he could have weathered that if only he had reacted better than he did.
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16th April 2012, 06:04 AM	#2
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,090	Thing is; he wouldn't have had either congress or senate.
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16th April 2012, 06:16 AM	#3
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,652	Well yes, he could have. But that's like saying I could have beat Tyson in his prime if I were a better boxer. The reasons he didn't, and couldn't, run a better campaign are the same reasons that would keep him from running an administration well.
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16th April 2012, 06:17 AM	#4
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 9,296	I only didn't vote for him because of his running mate. Same reason I didn't vote for McCain.
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16th April 2012, 06:26 AM	#5
Cleon King of the Pod People Moderator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 20,506	Originally Posted by NoahFence I only didn't vote for him because of his running mate. Same reason I didn't vote for McCain. Say what you will about Stockdale, but "I turned off my hearing aid" was the best part of that entire election season.
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16th April 2012, 06:42 AM	#6
BazBear Teddy Bears do have teeth! Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: In The Woods Behind Your House Posts: 1,611	Originally Posted by NoahFence I only didn't vote for him because of his running mate. Same reason I didn't vote for McCain. Admiral Stockdale was good man, a patriot, and might have been a good VP...in like 1980 or 84. And no, I don't think Perot had a real chance of winning.
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16th April 2012, 06:53 AM	#7
Bikewer Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St. Louis, Mo. Posts: 9,519	The only thing I recall about Perot's positions was his constant use of "All we have to do is....." I have long maintained that simple answers are rarely correct when it comes to national affairs, and though they may be appealing to people, they rarely work out. I worked the big three-way debate here in St. Louis... What a mess. Not only Ralph Nader's supporters showed up, but a rag-tag group of "activists" of all sorts. Even dingbat from the Westboro church came with his "God Hates" signs. (his message didn't fly too well with the strongly-liberal university crowd)

16th April 2012, 01:23 PM	#8
joobie i don't care Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in my dreams, i am still in perú Posts: 2,517	my at the time gf and her mother were all about perot. i bet them a steak dinner he wouldn't get any electoral votes. they welched on the bet. jerks.
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16th April 2012, 02:08 PM	#9
carlitos "más divertido" Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 11,465	"That giant sucking sound you hear is jobs going down to Mexico" In a family of four, we voted for 4 different candidates for President that year - not something that probably happens often. Clinton, Bush, Perot and then I voted for Andre Marrou.

16th April 2012, 02:38 PM	#10
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,090	Originally Posted by carlitos "That giant sucking sound you hear is jobs going down to Mexico" In a family of four, we voted for 4 different candidates for President that year - not something that probably happens often. Clinton, Bush, Perot and then I voted for Andre Marrou. He was sure right about that one. I voted for Marrou then, too.
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16th April 2012, 02:53 PM	#11
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,409	Originally Posted by Cleon Say what you will about Stockdale, but "I turned off my hearing aid" was the best part of that entire election season. This. Imagine being stuck in a debate with Al Gore and Dan Quayle and not being able to turn down the volume. It doesn't bear thinking!
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16th April 2012, 03:16 PM	#12
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,281	I've thought for a long time that Perot was in the race to knock George H. W. Bush out. It's pretty well-known that he did not like Bush, and I think his candidacy had the sole purpose of drawing enough votes away from Bush to keep him from winning. The reason he dropped out and came back in, IMO is that his campaign was more successful than he ever imagined it would be, and it started to look like he had a real chance of winning, or, more likely, getting enough electoral votes to throw the election into the House of Representatives. He dropped out and came back in to make sure he got enough votes do ensure Bush's defeat, but not enough to win the election, or keep either candidate from getting an electoral college majority.
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16th April 2012, 04:05 PM	#13
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	How was he doing, state by state, at the time that he dropped out? I'm not sure that's a reasonable conclusion, that he could have thought he was too close to winning.
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16th April 2012, 07:05 PM	#14
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,445	June is a long way from November and I don't think you can draw many conclusions from poll data at that time. IMO, the longer Perot was around, the less electable he became, regardless of whether he stayed in the race the whole time or not.
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17th April 2012, 05:59 AM	#15
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Perot didn't want to win -- he wanted Bush, Sr., to lose. I didn't realize this at the time and felt duped when I figured it out later. Hence he drops out of the race the morning that Clinton was to give his acceptance speech, and all eyes turn to Clinton, thus invigorating him. You have to remember that, up until that point, people were making jokes about the Democrats running to a huge defeat that year as they had the previous 3 elections. Two weeks earlier, SNL made a joke about some worker helping build the Democrats' convention stage saying, "Ahhh, what's the point?" Huge laugh from the audience. Later Perot gets back in to make sure the vote gets split, and history unfolds differently.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 17th April 2012 at 06:04 AM.

17th April 2012, 06:01 AM	#16
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	As Perot and Bush, Sr., were both very high in the power circles of the Republicans in the 1970s (Nixon called on Perot at one point to help the NYSE itself from going under), god only knows what BS went between them that led to Perot's behavior. Bush probably pulled some shenanigans on him, Perot didn't like it, and didn't sit back and take it.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 17th April 2012 at 06:02 AM.

17th April 2012, 06:11 AM	#17
Spindrift Enturbulator Extraordinaire Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Right here! Posts: 8,445	Originally Posted by Beerina Perot didn't want to win -- he wanted Bush, Sr., to lose. I didn't realize this at the time and felt duped when I figured it out later. Hence he drops out of the race the morning that Clinton was to give his acceptance speech, and all eyes turn to Clinton, thus invigorating him. You have to remember that, up until that point, people were making jokes about the Democrats running to a huge defeat that year as they had the previous 3 elections. Two weeks earlier, SNL made a joke about some worker helping build the Democrats' convention stage saying, "Ahhh, what's the point?" Huge laugh from the audience. Later Perot gets back in to make sure the vote gets split, and history unfolds differently. You're using SNL as evidence?
	__________________ I've always believed that cluelessness evolved as an adaptation to allow the truly appalling to live with themselves. - G. B. Trudeau A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. - Kay, Men in Black.

17th April 2012, 06:12 AM	#18
jhunter1163 Beer-Swilling Semiliterate Moderator Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Room 118, Bohemian Grove Marriott Posts: 15,557	Originally Posted by gnome How was he doing, state by state, at the time that he dropped out? I'm not sure that's a reasonable conclusion, that he could have thought he was too close to winning. I don't think he would have won, but he very well might have thrown the election into the House. The Democrats had a significant majority (267-167) there so Clinton likely would have won anyway.

17th April 2012, 06:37 AM	#19
shadron Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 5,717	He had such a nice, no-nonsense, graphical sort of way to make his points. But it started seeming fishy when Morra Liasson (or maybe it was Cokie Roberts) of NPR called him to get an opinion, and he asked her on the recording who she and NPR were. They may not have been one of the major three, but it showed that his background/preparation, like Sarah Palin's, was not of the calibre the job demands.
	Last edited by shadron; 17th April 2012 at 06:43 AM.

17th April 2012, 12:36 PM	#20
dudalb Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 22,782	Given that Perot had the kind of campaign he wanted, no. As some have pointed out, the more people took a close look at Perot after the initial euphoria,the less the liked him. His habit of publically melting down on several occasions did not help him either.

17th April 2012, 01:31 PM	#21
Howie Felterbush Bow Tie Daddy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the twilight, singing all the old lullabies Posts: 5,333	Remember when Dennis Miller called Perot, "...a forehead vein in a blue suit"? That little guy was intense. Probably not President material, but it would have been entertaining.
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17th April 2012, 02:57 PM	#22
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,281	Originally Posted by Beerina As Perot and Bush, Sr., were both very high in the power circles of the Republicans in the 1970s (Nixon called on Perot at one point to help the NYSE itself from going under), god only knows what BS went between them that led to Perot's behavior. Bush probably pulled some shenanigans on him, Perot didn't like it, and didn't sit back and take it. I remember reading somewhere, I don't remember where, and I have no idea if it was accurate, that Perot strongly believed that there were POW's still in North Vietnam that hadn't been released, and that during the Reagan administration, George H. W. bush was tasked with telling Perot that the Reagan administration wasn't going to make any more effort to find or gain the release of these supposed unreleased POW's and that this was the source of Perot's dislike for Bush. I reached the conclusion on my own that Perot's real reason for running was to ensure Clinton's victory (or Bush's defeat), but I later found that quite a few other people had come to the same conclusion. IMO, it is the most likely explanation for his behavior of dropping out while making accusations against Bush, then re-entering the race later.
CORed Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 4,281

17th April 2012, 03:08 PM	#23
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,090	Originally Posted by Howie Felterbush Remember when Dennis Miller called Perot, "...a forehead vein in a blue suit"? That little guy was intense. Probably not President material, but it would have been entertaining. Remember when Dennis Miller was funny?
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17th April 2012, 04:31 PM	#24
Howie Felterbush Bow Tie Daddy Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In the twilight, singing all the old lullabies Posts: 5,333	Do you mean when he was on Monday Night Football?
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17th April 2012, 06:50 PM	#25
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,417	Originally Posted by Bikewer The only thing I recall about Perot's positions was his constant use of "All we have to do is....." I have long maintained that simple answers are rarely correct when it comes to national affairs, and though they may be appealing to people, they rarely work out. I am not sure that matters. They might not make good policy but they make great election fodder, and the question was could he get elected not would he be a good president.
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17th April 2012, 07:33 PM	#26
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,643	Originally Posted by BenBurch Remember when Dennis Miller was funny? No. When was that?
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17th April 2012, 08:39 PM	#27
Dunstan Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sunnyvale Trailer Park Posts: 4,292	Originally Posted by applecorped No. When was that? Not sure if I should be taking this seriously, but... his Off-White Album is pretty damn good, and he was one of the best Weekend Update anchors on SNL.

18th April 2012, 04:59 AM	#28
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Spindrift You're using SNL as evidence? As reflective of the sense of what was going on at the time, yes. It's fanciful to see Clinton's election and re-election in a context of him being Awesome-O since the beginning of time, but that wasn't the case. He may have won anyway, but Perot was definitely out to help him.
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18th April 2012, 05:03 AM	#29
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Dunstan Not sure if I should be taking this seriously, but... his Off-White Album is pretty damn good, and he was one of the best Weekend Update anchors on SNL. Dennis Miller was the best, and I was pissed when they fired him because he kept making fun of O.J. Simpson, who was a friend of some high executive at NBC. This was all long before he became a conservative speaker (when not doing comedy) and certain folks feel the need to disdain him because of it. I like Paula Poundstone, too, and listen to shows like Wait Wait Don't Tell Me on NPR on the weekends, on which she regularly appears. If your brain is so small that someone's politics threatens it, you probably need a different hobby.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

18th April 2012, 08:19 AM	#30
Dunstan Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Sunnyvale Trailer Park Posts: 4,292	Originally Posted by Beerina Dennis Miller was the best, and I was pissed when they fired him because he kept making fun of O.J. Simpson, who was a friend of some high executive at NBC. I think you're confusing him with Norm Macdonald on that point. (The executive was Don Ohlemeyer, and he had disliked Norm and his head Update writer pretty much from the get-go. No doubt the O.J. stuff was part of it, but not the whole story.)

19th April 2012, 04:27 PM	#31
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	Originally Posted by Beerina This was all long before he became a conservative speaker (when not doing comedy) and certain folks feel the need to disdain him because of it. Speaking for myself, I didn't mind that he was and spoke for conservatism--what I found distasteful was that at a certain point he stopped poking fun at both sides, and refused to have conservatives, Bush in particular, be a target. Not that I insist he should have more Bush jokes, but when you're a political comedian, you're not doing it right if a political figure is immune. Less specifically, I watched for a little while after that anyway, and I think ramping up his politics came at the expense of being as funny.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	__________________ Last edited by gnome; 19th April 2012 at 04:29 PM.

22nd April 2012, 07:03 PM	#32
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by Dunstan I think you're confusing him with Norm Macdonald on that point. (The executive was Don Ohlemeyer, and he had disliked Norm and his head Update writer pretty much from the get-go. No doubt the O.J. stuff was part of it, but not the whole story.) Oh ya, my bad! I love Norm, too. He's a very close second best as SNL news host. Indeed, nobody comes close to those two. My favorite Norm moment: "This week, Madonna gave birth to her first child. The daughter, named Lourdes, clocked in at 7 pounds 8 ounces, making it the fifth largest object to pass through Madonna's birth canal."
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

22nd April 2012, 07:22 PM	#33
BStrong Illuminator Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: California Posts: 3,795	Anybody that would trust Scott Barnes has no business being in a position of authority over anything: http://articles.latimes.com/1992-10-...l-cajon-police

22nd April 2012, 08:44 PM	#34
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	I was particularly impressed with Perot's use of his voodoo stick while explaining the national budget on TV. Really, I was... I voted for him... twice
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22nd April 2012, 09:47 PM	#35
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033	Originally Posted by BazBear Admiral Stockdale was good man, a patriot, and might have been a good VP...in like 1980 or 84. And no, I don't think Perot had a real chance of winning. Oh Gee! Spare me the soapbox!
dc1971 Banned Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 3,033