What makes a hero - Page 2

LibraryLady · 28th April 2012, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

Clearly you opted not to follow my links (provided for your edification, ironically), one of which takes you to a list of recipients of the George Cross. The George Cross is the highest civil decoration of the Commonwealth of Nations. As the civilian counterpart of the Victoria Cross. That, along with the rest of my text, makes me wonder how on earth you parsed "only people who fight wars are heroes"?

It's not like you, LL, to go off half cocked. Did I strike a nerve somewhere?

Actually, you are quite correct. It wasn't a nerve you struck, it was that I read way too fast and in between some real life mishegas. My apologies.

Half-cocked? I....never mind.

bluesjnr · 28th April 2012, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

Actually, you are quite correct. It wasn't a nerve you struck, it was that I read way too fast and in between some real life mishegas. My apologies.

No need to apologise but thank you for doing so anyway.

Quote:

Half-cocked? I....never mind.

Remember, you're a "Lady"!

Hutch · 28th April 2012, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by Roadtoad

Couldn't get the first YouTube link to work, but the second worked fine.

And couldn't agree more.

My bad to you and LL, here is the link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Roadtoad · 28th April 2012, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Hutch

My bad to you and LL, here is the link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Perfect. And, yes. A definite hero.

LibraryLady · 28th April 2012, 11:50 AM

Gracious, yes.

I Ratant · 28th April 2012, 02:43 PM

Rosa Parks,

applecorped · 28th April 2012, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

What makes a hero?

Lettuce, onion, oil, vinegar & mayo.

mediocrity511 · 28th April 2012, 02:51 PM

This might sound a bit odd, but since the end of conscription I don't think very many people at all who join the military are heroes. If someone seeks out conflict and glory then that's not heroic. If someone is in an horrific situation and goes to extraordinary lengths to save or protect people, then that's heroic, if they put themselves in that situation then less so. I guess maybe I feel that it's possibe for defensive military to be heros, but not for the agressors.

applecorped · 28th April 2012, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by mediocrity511

This might sound a bit odd, but since the end of conscription I don't think very many people at all who join the military are heroes. If someone seeks out conflict and glory then that's not heroic. If someone is in an horrific situation and goes to extraordinary lengths to save or protect people, then that's heroic, if they put themselves in that situation then less so. I guess maybe I feel that it's possibe for defensive military to be heros, but not for the agressors.

Aggressive people can't be heroic?

mediocrity511 · 28th April 2012, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

Aggressive people can't be heroic?

Basically, yes, unless it is in retaliation to a grave threat.

applecorped · 28th April 2012, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by mediocrity511

Basically, yes, unless it is in retaliation to a grave threat.

I respectfully disagree. Can you support your assertion?

mediocrity511 · 28th April 2012, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

I respectfully disagree. Can you support your assertion?

Thinking on it, it's probably fairer to clarify a bit, a hero can be heroic if he/she is agressive in response to a threat to others. So if someone is beating up someone and a stranger intervenes, then that's heroic. If a country invades anothe country, then the defensive soldiers may be committing heroic acts by killing the enemy soldiers, but it's pretty context dependant. But I just can't think of a scenario where pure agression can be heroic. Of course it may be a failure of imagination, I am open to suggestions of such scenarios...

applecorped · 28th April 2012, 03:17 PM

A weakling snaps after much torment and goes aggro on a bully? Facing fear is heroic.

mediocrity511 · 28th April 2012, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

A weakling snaps after much torment and goes aggro on a bully? Facing fear is heroic.

But if they are facing bullying, then the bully is the agressor?

applecorped · 28th April 2012, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by mediocrity511

But if they are facing bullying, then the bully is the agressor?

Initially, yes. But fear can promote aggression. I also think naturally aggressive people can react heroically.

mediocrity511 · 28th April 2012, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

Initially, yes. But fear can promote aggression. I also think naturally aggressive people can react heroically.

There's a big difference between being naturally agressive and the agressor though. I also think that heroism has an element of bravery, so feeling the fear and doing it anyway. An agressive person is less likely to feel that fear of entering a violent situation in the first place, so imho that makes them much less likely to be heroic.
Maybe that isn't traditional, what with Achilles only being vulnerable in his heel and so forth...but if a 6ft 4 body builder fought off a mugger attacking a stranger, then I would think that less heroic than a 5ft nothing woman doing the same.

applecorped · 28th April 2012, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by mediocrity511

There's a big difference between being naturally agressive and the agressor though. I also think that heroism has an element of bravery, so feeling the fear and doing it anyway. An agressive person is less likely to feel that fear of entering a violent situation in the first place, so imho that makes them much less likely to be heroic.
Maybe that isn't traditional, what with Achilles only being vulnerable in his heel and so forth...but if a 6ft 4 body builder fought off a mugger attacking a stranger, then I would think that less heroic than a 5ft nothing woman doing the same.

I don't think stature can be a predictor of aggression. Not that you were suggesting this. It seems it would be hard to separate an aggressive persons actions from and similarly situated non-aggressive persons actions in the context of a intervention or altercation. It seems that heroism could manifest itself in practically anyone regardless of stature or disposition.

28th April 2012, 04:54 AM	#41
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,079	Originally Posted by bluesjnr Clearly you opted not to follow my links (provided for your edification, ironically), one of which takes you to a list of recipients of the George Cross. The George Cross is the highest civil decoration of the Commonwealth of Nations. As the civilian counterpart of the Victoria Cross. That, along with the rest of my text, makes me wonder how on earth you parsed "only people who fight wars are heroes"? It's not like you, LL, to go off half cocked. Did I strike a nerve somewhere? Actually, you are quite correct. It wasn't a nerve you struck, it was that I read way too fast and in between some real life mishegas. My apologies. Half-cocked? I....never mind.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

28th April 2012, 05:07 AM	#42
bluesjnr Professional Nemesis for Hire Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Not where I should be. Posts: 2,167	Originally Posted by LibraryLady Actually, you are quite correct. It wasn't a nerve you struck, it was that I read way too fast and in between some real life mishegas. My apologies. No need to apologise but thank you for doing so anyway. Quote: Half-cocked? I....never mind. Remember, you're a "Lady"!
	__________________ A baby smoking? That's child abuse - UncaYimmy Your avatar really cracked me up the first hundred or so times I saw it...Now, it gets on my nerves.. - Skeptical Greg

28th April 2012, 11:50 AM	#45
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,079	Gracious, yes.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

28th April 2012, 02:45 PM	#47
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,679	Originally Posted by LibraryLady What makes a hero? Lettuce, onion, oil, vinegar & mayo.
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

28th April 2012, 02:51 PM	#48
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120	This might sound a bit odd, but since the end of conscription I don't think very many people at all who join the military are heroes. If someone seeks out conflict and glory then that's not heroic. If someone is in an horrific situation and goes to extraordinary lengths to save or protect people, then that's heroic, if they put themselves in that situation then less so. I guess maybe I feel that it's possibe for defensive military to be heros, but not for the agressors.
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120

28th April 2012, 02:43 PM	#46
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Rosa Parks,

28th April 2012, 02:57 PM	#49
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,679	Originally Posted by mediocrity511 This might sound a bit odd, but since the end of conscription I don't think very many people at all who join the military are heroes. If someone seeks out conflict and glory then that's not heroic. If someone is in an horrific situation and goes to extraordinary lengths to save or protect people, then that's heroic, if they put themselves in that situation then less so. I guess maybe I feel that it's possibe for defensive military to be heros, but not for the agressors. Aggressive people can't be heroic?
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

28th April 2012, 03:02 PM	#50
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by applecorped Aggressive people can't be heroic? Basically, yes, unless it is in retaliation to a grave threat.
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120

28th April 2012, 03:06 PM	#51
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,679	Originally Posted by mediocrity511 Basically, yes, unless it is in retaliation to a grave threat. I respectfully disagree. Can you support your assertion?
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

28th April 2012, 03:12 PM	#52
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by applecorped I respectfully disagree. Can you support your assertion? Thinking on it, it's probably fairer to clarify a bit, a hero can be heroic if he/she is agressive in response to a threat to others. So if someone is beating up someone and a stranger intervenes, then that's heroic. If a country invades anothe country, then the defensive soldiers may be committing heroic acts by killing the enemy soldiers, but it's pretty context dependant. But I just can't think of a scenario where pure agression can be heroic. Of course it may be a failure of imagination, I am open to suggestions of such scenarios...
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120

28th April 2012, 03:17 PM	#53
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,679	A weakling snaps after much torment and goes aggro on a bully? Facing fear is heroic.
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

28th April 2012, 03:24 PM	#54
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by applecorped A weakling snaps after much torment and goes aggro on a bully? Facing fear is heroic. But if they are facing bullying, then the bully is the agressor?
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120

28th April 2012, 03:26 PM	#55
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,679	Originally Posted by mediocrity511 But if they are facing bullying, then the bully is the agressor? Initially, yes. But fear can promote aggression. I also think naturally aggressive people can react heroically.
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

28th April 2012, 03:33 PM	#56
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120	Originally Posted by applecorped Initially, yes. But fear can promote aggression. I also think naturally aggressive people can react heroically. There's a big difference between being naturally agressive and the agressor though. I also think that heroism has an element of bravery, so feeling the fear and doing it anyway. An agressive person is less likely to feel that fear of entering a violent situation in the first place, so imho that makes them much less likely to be heroic. Maybe that isn't traditional, what with Achilles only being vulnerable in his heel and so forth...but if a 6ft 4 body builder fought off a mugger attacking a stranger, then I would think that less heroic than a 5ft nothing woman doing the same.
mediocrity511 Scholar Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 120

28th April 2012, 03:49 PM	#57
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,679	Originally Posted by mediocrity511 There's a big difference between being naturally agressive and the agressor though. I also think that heroism has an element of bravery, so feeling the fear and doing it anyway. An agressive person is less likely to feel that fear of entering a violent situation in the first place, so imho that makes them much less likely to be heroic. Maybe that isn't traditional, what with Achilles only being vulnerable in his heel and so forth...but if a 6ft 4 body builder fought off a mugger attacking a stranger, then I would think that less heroic than a 5ft nothing woman doing the same. I don't think stature can be a predictor of aggression. Not that you were suggesting this. It seems it would be hard to separate an aggressive persons actions from and similarly situated non-aggressive persons actions in the context of a intervention or altercation. It seems that heroism could manifest itself in practically anyone regardless of stature or disposition.
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.