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Old 10th May 2012, 02:19 PM   #161
Unabogie
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Well, Romney isn't denying the facts.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...lying-incident

“I’ve seen the reports, I’m not going to argue with that,”

Way to take ownership of your actions, Mitt!
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:24 PM   #162
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I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:33 PM   #163
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Originally Posted by Brown View Post
I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.
Indeed. Now that Romney's neither wealthy nor priveleged, and is a man of the people, a common man like all the rest of us, he is more in tune with our cultural values re: not attacking people. A man we can trust. A man whose moral code is firmly graven upon an etch-a-sketch.
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:33 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
In regards to memory formation, it is what the person thinks it is. If at the time Romney didn't think it was any different than any of his other pranks, then yes, it was ordinary.
True he spent so much of his time organizing groups to harass suspected gays that he can't be bothered to remember every felony.
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:33 PM   #165
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As always a simple "yeah I was an idiot as a kid, aren't we all" would have made it go away, but trying to fib and spin gives it legs.

Why do politicians always have to not be responsible?
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:36 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by epepke View Post
Do you know this? The article says that Lauber's homosexuality was "presumed."
So beating suspected homosexuals is OK as long as they are not homosexuals?

Like killing a Copt because you connected him with 911 is not a hate crime.
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:40 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Indeed. Now that Romney's neither wealthy nor priveleged, and is a man of the people, a common man like all the rest of us...
This is true. Everybody says so.

His gardener says so.
His butler says so.
His chauffeur says so.
The lifeguards at his pool say so.
His greenskeeper says so.
His shoeshine boy says so.
His bodyguards say so.
And his own wife (note the singular!) says so.
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:44 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by Brown View Post
This is true. Everybody says so.

His gardener says so.
His butler says so.
His chauffeur says so.
The lifeguards at his pool say so.
His greenskeeper says so.
His shoeshine boy says so.
His bodyguards say so.
And his own wife (note the singular!) says so.
You forgot the operator of his car elevator. That guy says he's a real jerk.
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:52 PM   #169
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Thinking on this more I wonder about say bears giving him a waxing might be more amusing.
You want a bear to give Romney a waxing?

What kind of bear? Chicago or Grizzly?
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Old 10th May 2012, 02:55 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by Brown View Post
I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.
How do you know that he has changed all that much?
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:07 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer View Post
How do you know that he has changed all that much?
Ask his dog.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:09 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer View Post
It appears so

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...KFU_story.html

Why am I not surprised?
Confirmation bias?
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:11 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Confirmation bias?
Perhaps. But it turns out to be true anyway?
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:13 PM   #174
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Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Perhaps. But it turns out to be true anyway?
Lucky.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:25 PM   #175
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I wonder what the reaction would be if Obama & his buddies in that Indonesian school jumped some kid, held him down, & cut his hair off because he was a Christian...
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:26 PM   #176
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It's not the bullying of his past that really matters, it's the fact that he wants to bully homosexuals today that should really matter.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:27 PM   #177
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Is bullying really all that bad?

Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:29 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
Oh, FFS, if we held everybody responsible for stupid, offensive, or cruel **** they did in high school, nobody would be able to get a position above "janitor."
I'd be fine with that if it means fewer psychopaths in power.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:29 PM   #179
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BTW:

I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:41 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."
Well there you go.
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I think I'll reroute my trip
I wonder if they'd think I'd flipped.
If I went to LA, via Omaha.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:43 PM   #181
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Originally Posted by halides1 View Post
Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."
Stop that. You are scaring me.
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Old 10th May 2012, 03:48 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Brainster View Post
Whoops, looks like Obama bullied a black girl:
Some lovely commenters Althouse has.

Quote:
ricpic said...

So Romney was a healthy young guy outraged by a flaming queen. What's wrong with that?
5/10/12 10:28 AM
Quote:
Sorun said...

Romney just lost the whiney gay vote.
5/10/12 10:35 AM
Quote:
chickenlittle said...

It's good that the lies come out so early. If only we could see what else WaPo has lying in wait.

Shameless
5/10/12 10:33 AM
Quote:
Curious George said...

Did he give him a Five Point Geometric Cut? Because that would have looked fabulous!
5/10/12 10:37 AM
Quote:
traditionalguy said...

Is this an inquisition against straights already?

They need to stop while the gays are fully accepted based upon today's views of rights.

Romney acted totally normal for straights in those days. Sodomy, like pornography, was literally a crime at that time.

This could become an over reach that helps Romney bring out his voters on election day who were not really enamored of a Massachusetts moderate.
5/10/12 10:48 AM
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:03 PM   #183
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Originally Posted by Biscuit View Post
High school kids can be jerks to each other is not news. Especially private school kids. I know from first hand experience. None of the people i knew in high school are the same now and I would hate to be judged now by my behavior back then. I think everyone can relate to that.

What do people say about him now and since then? Does he have a reputation for being a bully as an adult?
This a a great commentary in the Atlantic. Some funny stuff there mostly noting the people who believe the incident to be kids as usual.

My personal reaction is more akin to this comment:
Quote:
While lots of people did stupid things in high school (until this Thursday, we thought they mostly involved drugs?), not that many tackled a kid and cut off his hair.
I don't know what your experience was as a teen but I don't think physically holding someone down and cutting their hair fits the category of usual teenager crap. I grew up in LA and we were really crazy when it came to a lot of things including (though I wasn't involved) some gang fights. Kids used drugs, broke plenty of laws and there were the usual cast of bullies. When my brother was in jr high he was 'pantsed' by some bigger kids. That was a fad for a while.

But there's something about cutting someone's hair that crosses a line IMO. It's maybe not quite as bad as the guy who tortured animals. That kind of behavior crosses a line suggesting borderline personality problems. But it's beyond the usual hitting, kicking, pinching, punching, scratching, or spitting. Cutting someone's hair has a different connotation in my mind.


The column ends with
Quote:
I was raised to believe that when, for example, Brandon D. sprays deer pee in the mouth of Charlie S. in the ninth grade annex of Mount Juliet High School, you root for Team Charlie, not Team Brandon. If Charlie S. can take any comfort from today's news, it's the knowledge that if Brandon D. runs for office, he'll finally be held to account for the deer pee incident.
Great stuff.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:06 PM   #184
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
No it doesn't. Something can be unique without being extraordinary. For example, have you ever taken a shoe off inside a grocery store? If you only did it once to get a pebble out of your shoe, would you remember it twenty years later? It's the simultaneously ordinary and unique things which are the hardest to remember, since they don't even have repetition to enforce them.
Your analogy is a fail. A unique location of a common event doesn't make it memorable.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:10 PM   #185
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your analogy is a fail. A unique location of a common event doesn't make it memorable.
It's not a perfect analogy, but you miss the point: uniqueness doesn't guarantee specialness or memorability. Location isn't the only thing that applies to, it's much more general than that.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:13 PM   #186
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
We do not know that his sexuality was the motive. Gay kids aren't the only kids who get picked on, and gay kids who are picked on could be picked on for other reasons.
Some of the people involved said thinking the guy was gay was involved.

But it wouldn't matter. In 1965 the Beatles had just perpetrated the 'British Invasion'. Short haired jocks often derided and bullied long haired boys. It was a backlash to the social changes that were threatening the established order. Long hair on boys was a big deal at the time and jocks often called boys with long hair girls. It wasn't about being gay at all. It was about bucking the social norm vs defending the norm amid fearing change.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:14 PM   #187
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
We do not know that his sexuality was the motive. Gay kids aren't the only kids who get picked on, and gay kids who are picked on could be picked on for other reasons.
Zig: The story may be suspect, and you are correct to point this out, however these types of actions are indefensible and this statement costs you a lot of credibility points.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:15 PM   #188
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
It's not a perfect analogy, but you miss the point: uniqueness doesn't guarantee specialness or memorability. Location isn't the only thing that applies to, it's much more general than that.
I didn't miss your point, I think it's either extremely unlikely Romney really did forget or worse, as others point out, that such a serious event wouldn't even rate being memorable. The latter suggests extreme callousness. Maybe you don't get that point?
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:18 PM   #189
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Originally Posted by BenBurch View Post
Talked to my lawyer and he says aggravated battery fits, but he thinks that his age will keep this from becoming a big story.
That and the fact that it happened 50 years ago.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:19 PM   #190
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Originally Posted by Montag451 View Post
As always a simple "yeah I was an idiot as a kid, aren't we all" would have made it go away, but trying to fib and spin gives it legs.

Why do politicians always have to not be responsible?
Given Romney's answers to a whole slew of other things he quickly rationalized, I think he's like the kid who stole the cookies and Mom is asking if he did it. It's a reflex to say no. There's no thought that goes into it.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:23 PM   #191
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.
His response to it says a lot and that was pretty 'now'.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:28 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Redtail View Post
I wonder what the reaction would be if Obama & his buddies in that Indonesian school jumped some kid, held him down, & cut his hair off because he was a Christian...
Armed revolt would accompany that news.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:31 PM   #193
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Originally Posted by RandFan View Post
I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.
The child is the father of the man.

Never forget that.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:33 PM   #194
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It's never too late to go all-in for Ron Paul.

Of course, I heard the NYT is sitting on a devastating story about the time Ron threw a pile of sand into the face of a fellow kindergartener 70 years ago.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:42 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by mikedenk View Post
It's never too late to go all-in for Ron Paul.
It's always too late for Ron.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:44 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Some of the people involved said thinking the guy was gay was involved.

But it wouldn't matter. In 1965 the Beatles had just perpetrated the 'British Invasion'. Short haired jocks often derided and bullied long haired boys. It was a backlash to the social changes that were threatening the established order. Long hair on boys was a big deal at the time and jocks often called boys with long hair girls. It wasn't about being gay at all. It was about bucking the social norm vs defending the norm amid fearing change.
During my high school years, there was a similar incident. A bunch of cowboy types ganged up and shaved one of the longer haired guys with sheep-shears, resulting in cuts and abrasions but no arrests. The victim was victimized, the bullys got away with it. I don't know what happened to most of those guys, but some of them are still #%#$#s.
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Old 10th May 2012, 04:46 PM   #197
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Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
That and the fact that it happened 50 years ago.
The topic is not 'statute of limitations'. We are discussing dickishness and candidate weaselry.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:00 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by fishbob View Post
The topic is not 'statute of limitations'. We are discussing dickishness and candidate weaselry.
By that standard please advise a clean candidate.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:03 PM   #199
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Well, Obama once told a girl he didn't want to be her girlfriend back when they both were in the fourth grade, so obviously he's out.
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Old 10th May 2012, 05:03 PM   #200
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
It's always too late for Ron.
1996 was too late for Ron.
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