Was Romney a high school bully? - Page 5

Unabogie · 10th May 2012, 02:19 PM

Well, Romney isn't denying the facts.

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...lying-incident

“I’ve seen the reports, I’m not going to argue with that,”

Way to take ownership of your actions, Mitt!

Brown · 10th May 2012, 02:24 PM

I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.

TragicMonkey · 10th May 2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Brown

I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.

Indeed. Now that Romney's neither wealthy nor priveleged, and is a man of the people, a common man like all the rest of us, he is more in tune with our cultural values re: not attacking people. A man we can trust. A man whose moral code is firmly graven upon an etch-a-sketch.

ponderingturtle · 10th May 2012, 02:33 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

In regards to memory formation, it is what the person thinks it is. If at the time Romney didn't think it was any different than any of his other pranks, then yes, it was ordinary.

True he spent so much of his time organizing groups to harass suspected gays that he can't be bothered to remember every felony.

Montag451 · 10th May 2012, 02:33 PM

As always a simple "yeah I was an idiot as a kid, aren't we all" would have made it go away, but trying to fib and spin gives it legs.

Why do politicians always have to not be responsible?

ponderingturtle · 10th May 2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by epepke

Do you know this? The article says that Lauber's homosexuality was "presumed."

So beating suspected homosexuals is OK as long as they are not homosexuals?

Like killing a Copt because you connected him with 911 is not a hate crime.

Brown · 10th May 2012, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Indeed. Now that Romney's neither wealthy nor priveleged, and is a man of the people, a common man like all the rest of us...

This is true. Everybody says so.

His gardener says so.
His butler says so.
His chauffeur says so.
The lifeguards at his pool say so.
His greenskeeper says so.
His shoeshine boy says so.
His bodyguards say so.
And his own wife (note the singular!) says so.

Unabogie · 10th May 2012, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by Brown

This is true. Everybody says so.

His gardener says so.
His butler says so.
His chauffeur says so.
The lifeguards at his pool say so.
His greenskeeper says so.
His shoeshine boy says so.
His bodyguards say so.
And his own wife (note the singular!) says so.

You forgot the operator of his car elevator. That guy says he's a real jerk.

Alferd_Packer · 10th May 2012, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by ponderingturtle

Thinking on this more I wonder about say bears giving him a waxing might be more amusing.

You want a bear to give Romney a waxing?

What kind of bear? Chicago or Grizzly?

Alferd_Packer · 10th May 2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Brown

I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.

How do you know that he has changed all that much?

Lisa Simpson · 10th May 2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer

How do you know that he has changed all that much?

Ask his dog.

applecorped · 10th May 2012, 03:09 PM

Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer

It appears so

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...KFU_story.html

Why am I not surprised?

Confirmation bias?

Unabogie · 10th May 2012, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

Confirmation bias?

Perhaps. But it turns out to be true anyway?

applecorped · 10th May 2012, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

Perhaps. But it turns out to be true anyway?

Lucky.

Redtail · 10th May 2012, 03:25 PM

I wonder what the reaction would be if Obama & his buddies in that Indonesian school jumped some kid, held him down, & cut his hair off because he was a Christian...

thaiboxerken · 10th May 2012, 03:26 PM

It's not the bullying of his past that really matters, it's the fact that he wants to bully homosexuals today that should really matter.

halides1 · 10th May 2012, 03:27 PM

Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."

JihadJane · 10th May 2012, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by Cleon

Oh, FFS, if we held everybody responsible for stupid, offensive, or cruel **** they did in high school, nobody would be able to get a position above "janitor."

I'd be fine with that if it means fewer psychopaths in power.

RandFan · 10th May 2012, 03:29 PM

I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.

RandFan · 10th May 2012, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by halides1

Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."

Well there you go.

fishbob · 10th May 2012, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by halides1

Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."

Stop that. You are scaring me.

Puppycow · 10th May 2012, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Whoops, looks like Obama bullied a black girl:

Some lovely commenters Althouse has.

Quote:

ricpic said...

So Romney was a healthy young guy outraged by a flaming queen. What's wrong with that?
5/10/12 10:28 AM

Quote:

Sorun said...

Romney just lost the whiney gay vote.
5/10/12 10:35 AM

Quote:

chickenlittle said...

It's good that the lies come out so early. If only we could see what else WaPo has lying in wait.

Shameless
5/10/12 10:33 AM

Quote:

Curious George said...

Did he give him a Five Point Geometric Cut? Because that would have looked fabulous!
5/10/12 10:37 AM

Quote:

traditionalguy said...

Is this an inquisition against straights already?

They need to stop while the gays are fully accepted based upon today's views of rights.

Romney acted totally normal for straights in those days. Sodomy, like pornography, was literally a crime at that time.

This could become an over reach that helps Romney bring out his voters on election day who were not really enamored of a Massachusetts moderate.
5/10/12 10:48 AM

Skeptic Ginger · 10th May 2012, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Biscuit

High school kids can be jerks to each other is not news. Especially private school kids. I know from first hand experience. None of the people i knew in high school are the same now and I would hate to be judged now by my behavior back then. I think everyone can relate to that.

What do people say about him now and since then? Does he have a reputation for being a bully as an adult?

This a a great commentary in the Atlantic. Some funny stuff there mostly noting the people who believe the incident to be kids as usual.

My personal reaction is more akin to this comment:

Quote:

While lots of people did stupid things in high school (until this Thursday, we thought they mostly involved drugs?), not that many tackled a kid and cut off his hair.

I don't know what your experience was as a teen but I don't think physically holding someone down and cutting their hair fits the category of usual teenager crap. I grew up in LA and we were really crazy when it came to a lot of things including (though I wasn't involved) some gang fights. Kids used drugs, broke plenty of laws and there were the usual cast of bullies. When my brother was in jr high he was 'pantsed' by some bigger kids. That was a fad for a while.

But there's something about cutting someone's hair that crosses a line IMO. It's maybe not quite as bad as the guy who tortured animals. That kind of behavior crosses a line suggesting borderline personality problems. But it's beyond the usual hitting, kicking, pinching, punching, scratching, or spitting. Cutting someone's hair has a different connotation in my mind.

The column ends with

Quote:

I was raised to believe that when, for example, Brandon D. sprays deer pee in the mouth of Charlie S. in the ninth grade annex of Mount Juliet High School, you root for Team Charlie, not Team Brandon. If Charlie S. can take any comfort from today's news, it's the knowledge that if Brandon D. runs for office, he'll finally be held to account for the deer pee incident.

Great stuff.

Skeptic Ginger · 10th May 2012, 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

No it doesn't. Something can be unique without being extraordinary. For example, have you ever taken a shoe off inside a grocery store? If you only did it once to get a pebble out of your shoe, would you remember it twenty years later? It's the simultaneously ordinary and unique things which are the hardest to remember, since they don't even have repetition to enforce them.

Your analogy is a fail. A unique location of a common event doesn't make it memorable.

Ziggurat · 10th May 2012, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Your analogy is a fail. A unique location of a common event doesn't make it memorable.

It's not a perfect analogy, but you miss the point: uniqueness doesn't guarantee specialness or memorability. Location isn't the only thing that applies to, it's much more general than that.

Skeptic Ginger · 10th May 2012, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

We do not know that his sexuality was the motive. Gay kids aren't the only kids who get picked on, and gay kids who are picked on could be picked on for other reasons.

Some of the people involved said thinking the guy was gay was involved.

But it wouldn't matter. In 1965 the Beatles had just perpetrated the 'British Invasion'. Short haired jocks often derided and bullied long haired boys. It was a backlash to the social changes that were threatening the established order. Long hair on boys was a big deal at the time and jocks often called boys with long hair girls. It wasn't about being gay at all. It was about bucking the social norm vs defending the norm amid fearing change.

fishbob · 10th May 2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

We do not know that his sexuality was the motive. Gay kids aren't the only kids who get picked on, and gay kids who are picked on could be picked on for other reasons.

Zig: The story may be suspect, and you are correct to point this out, however these types of actions are indefensible and this statement costs you a lot of credibility points.

Skeptic Ginger · 10th May 2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ziggurat

It's not a perfect analogy, but you miss the point: uniqueness doesn't guarantee specialness or memorability. Location isn't the only thing that applies to, it's much more general than that.

I didn't miss your point, I think it's either extremely unlikely Romney really did forget or worse, as others point out, that such a serious event wouldn't even rate being memorable. The latter suggests extreme callousness. Maybe you don't get that point?

The Central Scrutinizer · 10th May 2012, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Talked to my lawyer and he says aggravated battery fits, but he thinks that his age will keep this from becoming a big story.

That and the fact that it happened 50 years ago.

Skeptic Ginger · 10th May 2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Montag451

As always a simple "yeah I was an idiot as a kid, aren't we all" would have made it go away, but trying to fib and spin gives it legs.

Why do politicians always have to not be responsible?

Given Romney's answers to a whole slew of other things he quickly rationalized, I think he's like the kid who stole the cookies and Mom is asking if he did it. It's a reflex to say no. There's no thought that goes into it.

Skeptic Ginger · 10th May 2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.

His response to it says a lot and that was pretty 'now'.

BenBurch · 10th May 2012, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Redtail

I wonder what the reaction would be if Obama & his buddies in that Indonesian school jumped some kid, held him down, & cut his hair off because he was a Christian...

Armed revolt would accompany that news.

BenBurch · 10th May 2012, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.

The child is the father of the man.

Never forget that.

mikedenk · 10th May 2012, 04:33 PM

It's never too late to go all-in for Ron Paul.

Of course, I heard the NYT is sitting on a devastating story about the time Ron threw a pile of sand into the face of a fellow kindergartener 70 years ago.

applecorped · 10th May 2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by mikedenk

It's never too late to go all-in for Ron Paul.

It's always too late for Ron.

fishbob · 10th May 2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Some of the people involved said thinking the guy was gay was involved.

But it wouldn't matter. In 1965 the Beatles had just perpetrated the 'British Invasion'. Short haired jocks often derided and bullied long haired boys. It was a backlash to the social changes that were threatening the established order. Long hair on boys was a big deal at the time and jocks often called boys with long hair girls. It wasn't about being gay at all. It was about bucking the social norm vs defending the norm amid fearing change.

During my high school years, there was a similar incident. A bunch of cowboy types ganged up and shaved one of the longer haired guys with sheep-shears, resulting in cuts and abrasions but no arrests. The victim was victimized, the bullys got away with it. I don't know what happened to most of those guys, but some of them are still #%#$#s.

fishbob · 10th May 2012, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer

That and the fact that it happened 50 years ago.

The topic is not 'statute of limitations'. We are discussing dickishness and candidate weaselry.

applecorped · 10th May 2012, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by fishbob

The topic is not 'statute of limitations'. We are discussing dickishness and candidate weaselry.

By that standard please advise a clean candidate.

ANTPogo · 10th May 2012, 05:03 PM

Well, Obama once told a girl he didn't want to be her girlfriend back when they both were in the fourth grade, so obviously he's out.

BenBurch · 10th May 2012, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by applecorped

It's always too late for Ron.

1996 was too late for Ron.

10th May 2012, 02:24 PM	#162
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,155	I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

10th May 2012, 02:33 PM	#163
TragicMonkey Poisoned Waffles Pither Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Monkey Posts: 30,086	Originally Posted by Brown I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing. Indeed. Now that Romney's neither wealthy nor priveleged, and is a man of the people, a common man like all the rest of us, he is more in tune with our cultural values re: not attacking people. A man we can trust. A man whose moral code is firmly graven upon an etch-a-sketch.
	__________________ One cannot expect wisdom to flow from a pumpkin.

10th May 2012, 02:33 PM	#164
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,427	Originally Posted by Ziggurat In regards to memory formation, it is what the person thinks it is. If at the time Romney didn't think it was any different than any of his other pranks, then yes, it was ordinary. True he spent so much of his time organizing groups to harass suspected gays that he can't be bothered to remember every felony.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th May 2012, 02:36 PM	#166
ponderingturtle Orthogonal Vector Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Tarrytown, NY Posts: 26,427	Originally Posted by epepke Do you know this? The article says that Lauber's homosexuality was "presumed." So beating suspected homosexuals is OK as long as they are not homosexuals? Like killing a Copt because you connected him with 911 is not a hate crime.
	__________________ Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody "There shall be no poofing in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin

10th May 2012, 02:40 PM	#167
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,155	Originally Posted by TragicMonkey Indeed. Now that Romney's neither wealthy nor priveleged, and is a man of the people, a common man like all the rest of us... This is true. Everybody says so. His gardener says so. His butler says so. His chauffeur says so. The lifeguards at his pool say so. His greenskeeper says so. His shoeshine boy says so. His bodyguards say so. And his own wife (note the singular!) says so.
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

10th May 2012, 02:19 PM	#161
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,852	Well, Romney isn't denying the facts. http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.co...lying-incident “I’ve seen the reports, I’m not going to argue with that,” Way to take ownership of your actions, Mitt!

10th May 2012, 02:33 PM	#165
Montag451 Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Peru Posts: 372	As always a simple "yeah I was an idiot as a kid, aren't we all" would have made it go away, but trying to fib and spin gives it legs. Why do politicians always have to not be responsible?

10th May 2012, 02:44 PM	#168
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,852	Originally Posted by Brown This is true. Everybody says so. His gardener says so. His butler says so. His chauffeur says so. The lifeguards at his pool say so. His greenskeeper says so. His shoeshine boy says so. His bodyguards say so. And his own wife (note the singular!) says so. You forgot the operator of his car elevator. That guy says he's a real jerk.

10th May 2012, 02:52 PM	#169
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,216	Originally Posted by ponderingturtle Thinking on this more I wonder about say bears giving him a waxing might be more amusing. You want a bear to give Romney a waxing? What kind of bear? Chicago or Grizzly?
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

10th May 2012, 02:55 PM	#170
Alferd_Packer Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 7,216	Originally Posted by Brown I find it very easy to believe that Rmoney, when he was younger, was a wealthy, privileged face-man who was unkind to others for his own amusement. But I consider that basically irrelevant. The "statute of limitations" has passed for that sort of thing. How do you know that he has changed all that much?
	__________________ No laws of physics were broken in the writing of this post

10th May 2012, 03:07 PM	#171
Lisa Simpson THE Lisa Simpson Administrator Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: 123 Fake Street Posts: 20,061	Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer How do you know that he has changed all that much? Ask his dog.
	__________________ That's what the Internet does -- you get a free bonus prize of Stupid Lies with every box of Delicious Facts. - cracked.com Facts are satanic litter on the heavenly highway to blind faith! - Betty Bowers

10th May 2012, 03:09 PM	#172
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,661	Originally Posted by Alferd_Packer It appears so http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...KFU_story.html Why am I not surprised? Confirmation bias?
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

10th May 2012, 03:11 PM	#173
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,852	Originally Posted by applecorped Confirmation bias? Perhaps. But it turns out to be true anyway?

10th May 2012, 03:13 PM	#174
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,661	Originally Posted by Unabogie Perhaps. But it turns out to be true anyway? Lucky.
	__________________ All You Need Is Love.

10th May 2012, 03:25 PM	#175
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,309	I wonder what the reaction would be if Obama & his buddies in that Indonesian school jumped some kid, held him down, & cut his hair off because he was a Christian...
Redtail Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,309	__________________ AVENGERS!!!.. Turn off the dark!

10th May 2012, 03:26 PM	#176
thaiboxerken Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 20,965	It's not the bullying of his past that really matters, it's the fact that he wants to bully homosexuals today that should really matter.
	__________________ All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power & profit - Thomas Paine

10th May 2012, 03:27 PM	#177
halides1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5,526	Is bullying really all that bad? Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out."
halides1 Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 5,526	__________________ “Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened.” – Winston Churchill

10th May 2012, 03:29 PM	#178
JihadJane Penultimate Satisfaction Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 42,728	Originally Posted by Cleon Oh, FFS, if we held everybody responsible for stupid, offensive, or cruel **** they did in high school, nobody would be able to get a position above "janitor." I'd be fine with that if it means fewer psychopaths in power.
	__________________ THE END of the recession IS NIGH

10th May 2012, 03:29 PM	#179
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,263	BTW: I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

10th May 2012, 03:41 PM	#180
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,263	Originally Posted by halides1 Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out." Well there you go.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

10th May 2012, 03:43 PM	#181
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Originally Posted by halides1 Why is everyone so focused on Romney's bullying? I remember reading in one of Ron Suskind's books about an incident in which George W. Bush hard-checked a guy in a college pick-up basketball game for no reason. Someone within the Republican party (possibly the checkee) said of the incident words to the effect, "He likes to make people knuckle under." So, if Romney is actually a bully, I say, "So was George Bush and look how his presidency turned out." Stop that. You are scaring me.
	__________________ When you believe in things you don't understand, then you suffer . . . " - Stevie Wonder "Stupidity - a callow indifference to facts or data" - Stuart Firestein -neuroscientist. I hate bigots.

10th May 2012, 03:48 PM	#182
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,767	Originally Posted by Brainster Whoops, looks like Obama bullied a black girl: Some lovely commenters Althouse has. Quote: ricpic said... So Romney was a healthy young guy outraged by a flaming queen. What's wrong with that? 5/10/12 10:28 AM Quote: Sorun said... Romney just lost the whiney gay vote. 5/10/12 10:35 AM Quote: chickenlittle said... It's good that the lies come out so early. If only we could see what else WaPo has lying in wait. Shameless 5/10/12 10:33 AM Quote: Curious George said... Did he give him a Five Point Geometric Cut? Because that would have looked fabulous! 5/10/12 10:37 AM Quote: traditionalguy said... Is this an inquisition against straights already? They need to stop while the gays are fully accepted based upon today's views of rights. Romney acted totally normal for straights in those days. Sodomy, like pornography, was literally a crime at that time. This could become an over reach that helps Romney bring out his voters on election day who were not really enamored of a Massachusetts moderate. 5/10/12 10:48 AM
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

10th May 2012, 04:03 PM	#183
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,587	Originally Posted by Biscuit High school kids can be jerks to each other is not news. Especially private school kids. I know from first hand experience. None of the people i knew in high school are the same now and I would hate to be judged now by my behavior back then. I think everyone can relate to that. What do people say about him now and since then? Does he have a reputation for being a bully as an adult? This a a great commentary in the Atlantic. Some funny stuff there mostly noting the people who believe the incident to be kids as usual. My personal reaction is more akin to this comment: Quote: While lots of people did stupid things in high school (until this Thursday, we thought they mostly involved drugs?), not that many tackled a kid and cut off his hair. I don't know what your experience was as a teen but I don't think physically holding someone down and cutting their hair fits the category of usual teenager crap. I grew up in LA and we were really crazy when it came to a lot of things including (though I wasn't involved) some gang fights. Kids used drugs, broke plenty of laws and there were the usual cast of bullies. When my brother was in jr high he was 'pantsed' by some bigger kids. That was a fad for a while. But there's something about cutting someone's hair that crosses a line IMO. It's maybe not quite as bad as the guy who tortured animals. That kind of behavior crosses a line suggesting borderline personality problems. But it's beyond the usual hitting, kicking, pinching, punching, scratching, or spitting. Cutting someone's hair has a different connotation in my mind. The column ends with Quote: I was raised to believe that when, for example, Brandon D. sprays deer pee in the mouth of Charlie S. in the ninth grade annex of Mount Juliet High School, you root for Team Charlie, not Team Brandon. If Charlie S. can take any comfort from today's news, it's the knowledge that if Brandon D. runs for office, he'll finally be held to account for the deer pee incident. Great stuff.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

10th May 2012, 04:06 PM	#184
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,587	Originally Posted by Ziggurat No it doesn't. Something can be unique without being extraordinary. For example, have you ever taken a shoe off inside a grocery store? If you only did it once to get a pebble out of your shoe, would you remember it twenty years later? It's the simultaneously ordinary and unique things which are the hardest to remember, since they don't even have repetition to enforce them. Your analogy is a fail. A unique location of a common event doesn't make it memorable.
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10th May 2012, 04:10 PM	#185
Ziggurat Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 26,199	Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger Your analogy is a fail. A unique location of a common event doesn't make it memorable. It's not a perfect analogy, but you miss the point: uniqueness doesn't guarantee specialness or memorability. Location isn't the only thing that applies to, it's much more general than that.
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10th May 2012, 04:13 PM	#186
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,587	Originally Posted by Ziggurat We do not know that his sexuality was the motive. Gay kids aren't the only kids who get picked on, and gay kids who are picked on could be picked on for other reasons. Some of the people involved said thinking the guy was gay was involved. But it wouldn't matter. In 1965 the Beatles had just perpetrated the 'British Invasion'. Short haired jocks often derided and bullied long haired boys. It was a backlash to the social changes that were threatening the established order. Long hair on boys was a big deal at the time and jocks often called boys with long hair girls. It wasn't about being gay at all. It was about bucking the social norm vs defending the norm amid fearing change.
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10th May 2012, 04:14 PM	#187
fishbob Seasonally Disaffected Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Chilly Undieville Posts: 5,667	Originally Posted by Ziggurat We do not know that his sexuality was the motive. Gay kids aren't the only kids who get picked on, and gay kids who are picked on could be picked on for other reasons. Zig: The story may be suspect, and you are correct to point this out, however these types of actions are indefensible and this statement costs you a lot of credibility points.
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10th May 2012, 04:15 PM	#188
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,587	Originally Posted by Ziggurat It's not a perfect analogy, but you miss the point: uniqueness doesn't guarantee specialness or memorability. Location isn't the only thing that applies to, it's much more general than that. I didn't miss your point, I think it's either extremely unlikely Romney really did forget or worse, as others point out, that such a serious event wouldn't even rate being memorable. The latter suggests extreme callousness. Maybe you don't get that point?
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10th May 2012, 04:18 PM	#189
The Central Scrutinizer Penultimate Amazing Pither Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: The White Zone Posts: 42,277	Originally Posted by BenBurch Talked to my lawyer and he says aggravated battery fits, but he thinks that his age will keep this from becoming a big story. That and the fact that it happened *50 years* ago.
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10th May 2012, 04:19 PM	#190
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,587	Originally Posted by Montag451 As always a simple "yeah I was an idiot as a kid, aren't we all" would have made it go away, but trying to fib and spin gives it legs. Why do politicians always have to not be responsible? Given Romney's answers to a whole slew of other things he quickly rationalized, I think he's like the kid who stole the cookies and Mom is asking if he did it. It's a reflex to say no. There's no thought that goes into it.
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10th May 2012, 04:23 PM	#191
Skeptic Ginger formerly skeptigirl Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Shifting through paradigms Posts: 40,587	Originally Posted by RandFan I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now. His response to it says a lot and that was pretty 'now'.
	__________________ (*Tired of continuing to hear the "Democrat Party" repeatedly I've decided to adopt the name, ~~Pubbie Party, Repubs~~ "Republics" and Republic Party in response.)

10th May 2012, 04:28 PM	#192
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,177	Originally Posted by Redtail I wonder what the reaction would be if Obama & his buddies in that Indonesian school jumped some kid, held him down, & cut his hair off because he was a Christian... Armed revolt would accompany that news.
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10th May 2012, 04:31 PM	#193
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,177	Originally Posted by RandFan I would expect more of this kind of anal probing. I'm just not sure how comfortable I am with these kinds of anecdotes. I want Obama to win but I'm not sure how much this tells us about Romney now. The child is the father of the man. Never forget that.
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10th May 2012, 04:33 PM	#194
mikedenk Muse Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Midsouth, USA Posts: 792	It's never too late to go all-in for Ron Paul. Of course, I heard the NYT is sitting on a devastating story about the time Ron threw a pile of sand into the face of a fellow kindergartener 70 years ago.

10th May 2012, 04:42 PM	#195
applecorped Rotten to the Core Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 10,661	Originally Posted by mikedenk It's never too late to go all-in for Ron Paul. It's always too late for Ron.
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