Romney, Obama, Rasmussen - Page 4

Regnad Kcin · 4th June 2012, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

Otherwise, you lefties better enjoy it while you can.

Ah yes, like everyone who whooped it up due to the astoundingly competent financial policies of the George W. Bush administration. Good times!

Regnad Kcin · 4th June 2012, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by AlBell

For democrats I see a move towards the center ala Bill Clinton.

So the party will be moving left then? Interesting.

RandFan · 4th June 2012, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by stevea

Hmm - the obvious retort is "lame compared to whom" ? It think it''s sort of tragic-comedic to watch Obama attacking Romney's biz/finance experience while Obama has zilch, or attacking any Rep econo-plan (or even Simpson Bowles) after his actions failed to produce positive results. Is "Hey the economy is no worse" gonna be the 2012 Dem slogan ?

When Obama took office unemployment was rising. Now it is declining. We were in recession and not we are expanding. The DOW was 8000 now it's 12000.

We were in one very serious hole thanks to all of that biz/finance experience of the "experts". Sorry, but the last thing we need is a business person who only knows how to sell off the assets and lay people off to increase dividends. Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one.

BenBurch · 4th June 2012, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

When Obama took office unemployment was rising. Now it is declining. We were in recession and not we are expanding. The DOW was 8000 now it's 12000.

We were in one very serious hole thanks to all of that biz/finance experience of the "experts". Sorry, but the last thing we need is a business person who only knows how to sell off the assets and lay people off to increase dividends. Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one.

And that doesn't fit into a soundbite; But I hear that a 30-minute ad spot is being filmed to be show four times on different networks in October. No idea if it will actually be used.

easycruise · 5th June 2012, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by stevea

It think it''s sort of tragic-comedic to watch Obama attacking Romney's biz/finance experience while Obama has zilch, or attacking any Rep econo-plan (or even Simpson Bowles) after his actions failed to produce positive results.

What I find amusing is Obama attacking private equity company Bain Capital, which has had numerous success stories such as Staples Office Supply, Sports Authority, Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, etc. while Obama's "public equity" has had a string of failed investments such as Solyndra. It's a weak attempt at deflection.

Originally Posted by RandFan

Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one.

Wow. Simply stunning statement. How's that money tree doing in your back yard? :-) Better tend it well. What will you say when entitlements devour the budget, the crony socialism boondoggles keep mounting and the rich can't be soaked any more and the government has run out of other people's money? What will the lefties do? Ah well, since they say that you should invest when there is blood in the streets, as least we can forward to that opportunity.

BenBurch · 5th June 2012, 05:41 AM

Originally Posted by easycruise

What I find amusing is Obama attacking private equity company Bain Capital, which has had numerous success stories such as Staples Office Supply, Sports Authority, Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, etc. while Obama's "public equity" has had a string of failed investments such as Solyndra. It's a weak attempt at deflection.

.

LOL!

I look here every day for my dose of humor, and you provide it quite often.

maxpower1227 · 5th June 2012, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by easycruise

What I find amusing is Obama attacking private equity company Bain Capital, which has had numerous success stories such as Staples Office Supply, Sports Authority, Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, etc. while Obama's "public equity" has had a string of failed investments such as Solyndra. It's a weak attempt at deflection.

Domino's? The company that - on top of racking up enormous debt - was run so badly they were forced to run an ad campaign essentially saying "Hey, guys, sorry we've sucked so unbelievably hard for so long. We promise we don't suck any more"?

BenBurch · 5th June 2012, 07:03 AM

Originally Posted by maxpower1227

Domino's? The company that - on top of racking up enormous debt - was run so badly they were forced to run an ad campaign essentially saying "Hey, guys, sorry we've sucked so unbelievably hard for so long. We promise we don't suck any more"?

And those things are red herrings anyway, designed to make you not notice that Mitt abused the federal trough for personal gain, and LOST.

Unabogie · 5th June 2012, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

LOL!

I look here every day for my dose of humor, and you provide it quite often.

The inherent logic in this is that anything that happened to the companies that Bain invested in AFTER Bain left the picture is evidence of Business Acumen, while anything BAD that happened either during OR after is evidence of Attacking Free Enterprise.

It's kind of awesome, if you think about it.

BenBurch · 5th June 2012, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by Unabogie

The inherent logic in this is that anything that happened to the companies that Bain invested in AFTER Bain left the picture is evidence of Business Acumen, while anything BAD that happened either during OR after is evidence of Attacking Free Enterprise.

It's kind of awesome, if you think about it.

I wish I could get that deal!

BenBurch · 5th June 2012, 10:01 AM

So, looks like supporting same-sex marriage has destroyed Obama's chances.

NOT.

From http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...bama-1171.html

ETA: I notice Fox hasn't re-polled since their Obama +7 result... I wonder why?

Brainster · 5th June 2012, 10:23 AM

He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking.

BenBurch · 5th June 2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking.

Time to buy!

RandFan · 5th June 2012, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by easycruise

Wow. Simply stunning statement. How's that money tree doing in your back yard? :-) Better tend it well. What will you say when entitlements devour the budget, the crony socialism boondoggles keep mounting and the rich can't be soaked any more and the government has run out of other people's money? What will the lefties do? Ah well, since they say that you should invest when there is blood in the streets, as least we can forward to that opportunity.

Wow. Simply stunning straw men. Good job easy. Attack positions that people don't hold. It's not very novel and it's not valid but I suppose it's fun in it's own way.

RandFan · 5th June 2012, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking.

I've been saying, it's going to be squeaker. Anyone who did not see this coming hasn't been paying attention. I suspect that Romney will at some point overtake and pass Obama at least once in the coming months. Mark my words. Who will win? Given the disappointing job #'s I've got to give the advantage to Romney.

DavidJames · 5th June 2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Who will win? Given the disappointing job #'s I've got to give the advantage to Romney.

I don't honestly see how/why the numbers will improve. Large companies are doing quite well with the current level of employees. Add in the always improving productivity and efficiency, then add it sending jobs overseas and profits can be made w/o hiring. But wait, more profits mean more R&D and more hiring. Nonsense. Without jobs and threats of losing them, people aren't going to buy a lot.

Small businesses aren't seeing sales to warrant hiring either.

Somehow this is all Obama's fault. But he's the president and will get the blame. To think that the Republican slime machine hasn't even fired up yet.

RandFan · 5th June 2012, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by DavidJames

I don't honestly see how/why the numbers will improve. Large companies are doing quite well with the current level of employees. Add in the always improving productivity and efficiency, then add it sending jobs overseas and profits can be made w/o hiring. But wait, more profits mean more R&D and more hiring. Nonsense. Without jobs and threats of losing them, people aren't going to buy a lot.

Small businesses aren't seeing sales to warrant hiring either.

Somehow this is all Obama's fault. But he's the president and will get the blame. To think that the Republican slime machine hasn't even fired up yet.

And the money has yet to really even flow. In these times elections can be bought. I say can. All the money in the world would not help Gingrich. A candidate needs a good shot before the money can put them over the top. Romney has that shot.

MattusMaximus · 5th June 2012, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking.

Sinking? That implies Obama's numbers are continuing to go down, but they aren't. He took a hit on IEM as well over the weekend, though his numbers have stopped declining and have reversed a bit in the last 24 hours. I noticed the same pattern on Intrade just a few minutes ago.

The interesting thing to me is to see that his bundled poll numbers over at RCP don't seem to have shifted downwards at all. In fact, they seem to have gone up by about 0.2-0.4% in the last week, though this probably means little to nothing since that's well within the noise level.

BenBurch · 5th June 2012, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Sinking? That implies Obama's numbers are continuing to go down, but they aren't. He took a hit on IEM as well over the weekend, though his numbers have stopped declining and have reversed a bit in the last 24 hours. I noticed the same pattern on Intrade just a few minutes ago.

The interesting thing to me is to see that his bundled poll numbers over at RCP don't seem to have shifted downwards at all. In fact, they seem to have gone up by about 0.2-0.4% in the last week, though this probably means little to nothing since that's well within the noise level.

Barring bad news, approval ratings for almost anybody tend to float up slowly.

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 07:20 AM

Source http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...bama-1171.html

pgwenthold · 6th June 2012, 07:23 AM

Originally Posted by maxpower1227

Domino's? The company that - on top of racking up enormous debt - was run so badly they were forced to run an ad campaign essentially saying "Hey, guys, sorry we've sucked so unbelievably hard for so long. We promise we don't suck any more"?

They weren't really "forced" to do that. They chose to do that, and it is considered in the industry as a BRILLIANT marketing move.

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 07:28 AM

Damn. Intrade will not accept credit cards from US banks.

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by pgwenthold

They weren't really "forced" to do that. They chose to do that, and it is considered in the industry as a BRILLIANT marketing move.

Did it work? I ate one slice of their execrable pizza after that announcement, and if anything it was worse than before.

pgwenthold · 6th June 2012, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Did it work?

YES

They sold a crapload more than they did before.

That's the goal of marketing. To get people to buy stuff.

It was brilliant. They took crappy pizza and changed it, told everyone it was better, and they bought it. Doesn't matter whether it was better or not, people bought it. In fact, if it isn't any better it all the more demonstrates the success of their marketing campaign. The product is just as bad, but you sell a lot more. Cha-ching! That's what marketing is all about.

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 07:56 AM

Romney is selling himself that way, too.

jnelso99 · 6th June 2012, 09:48 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Did it work? I ate one slice of their execrable pizza after that announcement, and if anything it was worse than before.

I hate Domino's' pizza, but I love their hot wings. Always a conundrum when deciding what pizza to order...

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by jnelso99

I hate Domino's' pizza, but I love their hot wings. Always a conundrum when deciding what pizza to order...

Pizza Hut hotwings are pretty good.

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

Source http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...bama-1171.html

Posted too early. New update;

Brainster · 6th June 2012, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Sinking? That implies Obama's numbers are continuing to go down, but they aren't. He took a hit on IEM as well over the weekend, though his numbers have stopped declining and have reversed a bit in the last 24 hours. I noticed the same pattern on Intrade just a few minutes ago.

The interesting thing to me is to see that his bundled poll numbers over at RCP don't seem to have shifted downwards at all. In fact, they seem to have gone up by about 0.2-0.4% in the last week, though this probably means little to nothing since that's well within the noise level.

Down to 52.1 today. Like I said, and sinking.

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 10:33 AM

A bargain. Too bad it's going to be ten days before I can buy. I think the inflection point may be gone by then.

maxpower1227 · 6th June 2012, 11:27 AM

The electoral map is still showing quite positively for Obama, with the only recent change being WI changing from "leans Dem" to "toss up". Polls however seem to be leaning nearly more or less unanimously toward Obama, though, despite the fact that they just re-elected scumbag Walker. Can anyone make sense of that?

BenBurch · 6th June 2012, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by maxpower1227

The electoral map is still showing quite positively for Obama, with the only recent change being WI changing from "leans Dem" to "toss up". Polls however seem to be leaning nearly more or less unanimously toward Obama, though, despite the fact that they just re-elected scumbag Walker. Can anyone make sense of that?

60% of those voting thought recall should only be for official misconduct.

A fair position to take and one that does not say how you plan to vote in November.

easycruise · 6th June 2012, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Wow. Simply stunning straw men. Good job easy. Attack positions that people don't hold. It's not very novel and it's not valid but I suppose it's fun in it's own way.

Well, when you say ridiculous statements like yours you should expect to get parodied and made fun of. BTW, nice to know you agree with Dick Cheney and that deficits don't matter. lol.

Originally Posted by maxpower1227

though, despite the fact that they just re-elected scumbag Walker. Can anyone make sense of that?

Yep, a very happy day for me that Walker won by a bigger margin than the previous election he had with the same guy. I'm a big Walker fan. Taking it to those greedy unions big time! People are coming to their senses now that the bloom is off the "Obama infatuation" rose. Sad to see that $16 million was wasted on this recall election that was nothing more than a left-wing temper tantrum

maxpower1227 · 6th June 2012, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by easycruise

Yep, a very happy day for me that Walker won by a bigger margin than the previous election he had with the same guy. I'm a big Walker fan. Taking it to those greedy unions big time! People are coming to their senses now that the bloom is off the "Obama infatuation" rose. Sad to see that $16 million was wasted on this recall election that was nothing more than a left-wing temper tantrum

That's nice. What part of that explained Obama's lead in the Wisconsin polls?

RandFan · 7th June 2012, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by easycruise

Well, when you say ridiculous statements like yours you should expect to get parodied and made fun of. BTW, nice to know you agree with Dick Cheney and that deficits don't matter.

A.) Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one. Asserting that the statement is ridiculous doesn't make it so. Do you have an argument. B.) You are still engaging in straw men. Please to show where I said "deficits don't matter"? Of course deficits matter but they are significant relevant to GDP.

BenBurch · 8th June 2012, 10:28 AM

Rasmussen; Obama +2 now.

Source http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...bama-1171.html

stevea · 11th June 2012, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by RandFan

When Obama took office unemployment was rising. Now it is declining.

You ignore that labor force participation rate has been and continues to drop badly under Obama.

http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000

Lower unemployment by having an additional 2.5% of the population drop out of the work force is NOT selling point for Obama efforts.

==

Quote:

We were in recession and not we are expanding. The DOW was 8000 now it's 12000.

Did you imagine recessions last forever ? This is just another business cycle - tho' a severely deep one. Growth is anemic and tenuous. The question is clearly are Obama's policies preventing a robust recovery ?

What you are ignoring are the components of GDP - Gov spending is up and business investment is down. That does not describe a healthy growing economy. It describes an economy on life support.

Well 2008 Obama wanted us to be more like France - and with high structural unemployment massive social spending and anemic growth - it looks like he succeeded.

Quote:

We were in one very serious hole thanks to all of that biz/finance experience of the "experts".

Such nonsense. It's so easy to ascribe problems to nefarious individuals when you've failed to understand what happened. It was a bubble - just like the dot-com bubble but bigger. Your need to look for personal villains speaks to primitive economic thinking based on cartoonish views.

Quote:

Sorry, but the last thing we need is a business person who only knows how to sell off the assets and lay people off to increase dividends.

Is that all Bain capital did ? You really believe that ? Did you know Mittens' has done a lot besides Bain ? Whereas Obama's relevant experience in the private sector is what exactly ?

Quote:

Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one.

No one suggested government should be run quite like a business - so thanks for the straw-man. Further no sensible person attributes all of the economy to the emperor errr president. So what qualities does Obama have that prepares him to address the economy ? Stop switching the topic.

I'm no Romney fan - but Romney seems to have a clear advantage in finance, econ background, organizational skills and understanding of the private sector. Obama fails badly along these lines. Romney appears to be fairly middle of the road politically while Obama has some occasional outbursts of radical leftism.

I don't think either of these yahoos cares a jot about civil liberties and a constitutional limited government. It's not clear which one is the bigger war-monger - they both lose on that account. It's the lesser of two weasels choice again..

RandFan · 12th June 2012, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by stevea

What you are ignoring are the components of GDP - Gov spending is up and business investment is down. That does not describe a healthy growing economy. It describes an economy on life support.

Obama inherited a nightmare and the indicators have turned around. That's not debatable.

Quote:

Such nonsense. It's so easy to ascribe problems to nefarious individuals when you've failed to understand what happened. It was a bubble - just like the dot-com bubble but bigger. Your need to look for personal villains speaks to primitive economic thinking based on cartoonish views.

First off, a straw man and nonsense. Yes there was a bubble, a bubble that was the result of misfeasance. I'm not looking for anyone nefarious (that's all in your head). I'm simply pointing out the realities of failure to lead and the greed of those who packaged lousy investments in complex derivatives. It was entirely unnecessary and the result of ignoring lessons learned from the Great Depression.

Quote:

Is that all Bain capital did ? You really believe that ? Did you know Mittens' has done a lot besides Bain ? Whereas Obama's relevant experience in the private sector is what exactly ?

Romney is running away from everything other than Bain. Obama doesn't need experience in the private sector. We've sufficient history to know that is just a red herring.

Quote:

I'm no Romney fan - but Romney seems to have a clear advantage in finance, econ background, organizational skills and understanding of the private sector.

There's no basis to presuppose that experience in the private sector is at all necessary for a president to effectively govern. That's just ad hoc rationalization.

BenBurch · 12th June 2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

...

There's no basis to presuppose that experience in the private sector is at all necessary for a president to effectively govern. That's just ad hoc rationalization.

And you are supported by history as well. In fact, I think you can show the opposite bias.

JoeTheJuggler · 12th June 2012, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by stevea

You ignore that labor force participation rate has been and continues to drop badly under Obama.

It was up slightly last month. That was probably why the unemployment number also went up slightly.

4th June 2012, 04:25 PM	#121
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,205	Originally Posted by AlBell Otherwise, you lefties better enjoy it while you can. Ah yes, like everyone who whooped it up due to the astoundingly competent financial policies of the George W. Bush administration. Good times!
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

4th June 2012, 04:27 PM	#122
Regnad Kcin Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The ol' Same place Posts: 6,205	Originally Posted by AlBell For democrats I see a move towards the center ala Bill Clinton. So the party will be moving left then? Interesting.
	__________________ My heros are Alex Zanardi and Evelyn Glennie.

4th June 2012, 04:42 PM	#123
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by stevea Hmm - the obvious retort is "lame compared to whom" ? It think it''s sort of tragic-comedic to watch Obama attacking Romney's biz/finance experience while Obama has zilch, or attacking any Rep econo-plan (or even Simpson Bowles) after his actions failed to produce positive results. Is "Hey the economy is no worse" gonna be the 2012 Dem slogan ? When Obama took office unemployment was rising. Now it is declining. We were in recession and not we are expanding. The DOW was 8000 now it's 12000. We were in one very serious hole thanks to all of that biz/finance experience of the "experts". Sorry, but the last thing we need is a business person who only knows how to sell off the assets and lay people off to increase dividends. Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith Last edited by RandFan; 4th June 2012 at 04:49 PM.

4th June 2012, 05:34 PM	#124
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by RandFan When Obama took office unemployment was rising. Now it is declining. We were in recession and not we are expanding. The DOW was 8000 now it's 12000. We were in one very serious hole thanks to all of that biz/finance experience of the "experts". Sorry, but the last thing we need is a business person who only knows how to sell off the assets and lay people off to increase dividends. Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one. And that doesn't fit into a soundbite; But I hear that a 30-minute ad spot is being filmed to be show four times on different networks in October. No idea if it will actually be used.
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

5th June 2012, 05:35 AM	#125
easycruise Muse Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In chains I can bereave in Posts: 720	Originally Posted by stevea It think it''s sort of tragic-comedic to watch Obama attacking Romney's biz/finance experience while Obama has zilch, or attacking any Rep econo-plan (or even Simpson Bowles) after his actions failed to produce positive results. What I find amusing is Obama attacking private equity company Bain Capital, which has had numerous success stories such as Staples Office Supply, Sports Authority, Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, etc. while Obama's "public equity" has had a string of failed investments such as Solyndra. It's a weak attempt at deflection. Originally Posted by RandFan Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one. Wow. Simply stunning statement. How's that money tree doing in your back yard? :-) Better tend it well. What will you say when entitlements devour the budget, the crony socialism boondoggles keep mounting and the rich can't be soaked any more and the government has run out of other people's money? What will the lefties do? Ah well, since they say that you should invest when there is blood in the streets, as least we can forward to that opportunity.
	__________________ ""Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people's money."" - Margaret Thatcher Last edited by easycruise; 5th June 2012 at 05:37 AM.

5th June 2012, 05:41 AM	#126
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by easycruise What I find amusing is Obama attacking private equity company Bain Capital, which has had numerous success stories such as Staples Office Supply, Sports Authority, Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, etc. while Obama's "public equity" has had a string of failed investments such as Solyndra. It's a weak attempt at deflection. . LOL! I look here every day for my dose of humor, and you provide it quite often.
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5th June 2012, 06:27 AM	#127
maxpower1227 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,015	Originally Posted by easycruise What I find amusing is Obama attacking private equity company Bain Capital, which has had numerous success stories such as Staples Office Supply, Sports Authority, Domino's, Sealy, Brookstone, etc. while Obama's "public equity" has had a string of failed investments such as Solyndra. It's a weak attempt at deflection. Domino's? The company that - on top of racking up enormous debt - was run so badly they were forced to run an ad campaign essentially saying "Hey, guys, sorry we've sucked so unbelievably hard for so long. We promise we don't suck any more"?
	__________________ Warning. If you don't want to see your treasured "evidence" completely pwned in public, don't show it to the posters at JREF. - Rolfe

5th June 2012, 07:03 AM	#128
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by maxpower1227 Domino's? The company that - on top of racking up enormous debt - was run so badly they were forced to run an ad campaign essentially saying "Hey, guys, sorry we've sucked so unbelievably hard for so long. We promise we don't suck any more"? And those things are red herrings anyway, designed to make you not notice that Mitt abused the federal trough for personal gain, and LOST.
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5th June 2012, 08:35 AM	#129
Unabogie Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 5,843	Originally Posted by BenBurch LOL! I look here every day for my dose of humor, and you provide it quite often. The inherent logic in this is that anything that happened to the companies that Bain invested in AFTER Bain left the picture is evidence of Business Acumen, while anything BAD that happened either during OR after is evidence of Attacking Free Enterprise. It's kind of awesome, if you think about it.

5th June 2012, 09:05 AM	#130
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by Unabogie The inherent logic in this is that anything that happened to the companies that Bain invested in AFTER Bain left the picture is evidence of Business Acumen, while anything BAD that happened either during OR after is evidence of Attacking Free Enterprise. It's kind of awesome, if you think about it. I wish I could get that deal!
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

5th June 2012, 10:23 AM	#132
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,416	He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

5th June 2012, 10:36 AM	#133
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by Brainster He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking. Time to buy!
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5th June 2012, 10:39 AM	#134
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by easycruise Wow. Simply stunning statement. How's that money tree doing in your back yard? :-) Better tend it well. What will you say when entitlements devour the budget, the crony socialism boondoggles keep mounting and the rich can't be soaked any more and the government has run out of other people's money? What will the lefties do? Ah well, since they say that you should invest when there is blood in the streets, as least we can forward to that opportunity. Wow. Simply stunning straw men. Good job easy. Attack positions that people don't hold. It's not very novel and it's not valid but I suppose it's fun in it's own way.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

5th June 2012, 10:41 AM	#135
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by Brainster He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking. I've been saying, it's going to be squeaker. Anyone who did not see this coming hasn't been paying attention. I suspect that Romney will at some point overtake and pass Obama at least once in the coming months. Mark my words. Who will win? Given the disappointing job #'s I've got to give the advantage to Romney.
	__________________ Ego, ain't it a bitch? It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion. --Adam Smith

5th June 2012, 11:20 AM	#136
DavidJames Philosopher Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Front Range, CO Posts: 7,084	Originally Posted by RandFan Who will win? Given the disappointing job #'s I've got to give the advantage to Romney. I don't honestly see how/why the numbers will improve. Large companies are doing quite well with the current level of employees. Add in the always improving productivity and efficiency, then add it sending jobs overseas and profits can be made w/o hiring. But wait, more profits mean more R&D and more hiring. Nonsense. Without jobs and threats of losing them, people aren't going to buy a lot. Small businesses aren't seeing sales to warrant hiring either. Somehow this is all Obama's fault. But he's the president and will get the blame. To think that the Republican slime machine hasn't even fired up yet.
	__________________ I will no longer respond to those who choose to have tools of murder as their avatars. Everyone is a skeptic except, of course, for the stuff that they believe Beaver Hateman: Is your argument that human life loses value proportionate to the number of humans available? Malcolm Kirkpatrick: That's part of the argument. Value is determined by supply and demand. Last edited by DavidJames; 5th June 2012 at 11:21 AM.

5th June 2012, 11:47 AM	#137
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by DavidJames I don't honestly see how/why the numbers will improve. Large companies are doing quite well with the current level of employees. Add in the always improving productivity and efficiency, then add it sending jobs overseas and profits can be made w/o hiring. But wait, more profits mean more R&D and more hiring. Nonsense. Without jobs and threats of losing them, people aren't going to buy a lot. Small businesses aren't seeing sales to warrant hiring either. Somehow this is all Obama's fault. But he's the president and will get the blame. To think that the Republican slime machine hasn't even fired up yet. And the money has yet to really even flow. In these times elections can be bought. I say can. All the money in the world would not help Gingrich. A candidate needs a good shot before the money can put them over the top. Romney has that shot.
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5th June 2012, 01:00 PM	#138
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	Originally Posted by Brainster He's down to 53.4 at InTrade, and sinking. Sinking? That implies Obama's numbers are continuing to go down, but they aren't. He took a hit on IEM as well over the weekend, though his numbers have stopped declining and have reversed a bit in the last 24 hours. I noticed the same pattern on Intrade just a few minutes ago. The interesting thing to me is to see that his bundled poll numbers over at RCP don't seem to have shifted downwards at all. In fact, they seem to have gone up by about 0.2-0.4% in the last week, though this probably means little to nothing since that's well within the noise level.
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5th June 2012, 01:05 PM	#139
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Sinking? That implies Obama's numbers are continuing to go down, but they aren't. He took a hit on IEM as well over the weekend, though his numbers have stopped declining and have reversed a bit in the last 24 hours. I noticed the same pattern on Intrade just a few minutes ago. The interesting thing to me is to see that his bundled poll numbers over at RCP don't seem to have shifted downwards at all. In fact, they seem to have gone up by about 0.2-0.4% in the last week, though this probably means little to nothing since that's well within the noise level. Barring bad news, approval ratings for almost anybody tend to float up slowly.
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6th June 2012, 07:23 AM	#141
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,066	Originally Posted by maxpower1227 Domino's? The company that - on top of racking up enormous debt - was run so badly they were forced to run an ad campaign essentially saying "Hey, guys, sorry we've sucked so unbelievably hard for so long. We promise we don't suck any more"? They weren't really "forced" to do that. They chose to do that, and it is considered in the industry as a BRILLIANT marketing move.
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6th June 2012, 07:28 AM	#142
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Damn. Intrade will not accept credit cards from US banks.
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6th June 2012, 07:29 AM	#143
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by pgwenthold They weren't really "forced" to do that. They chose to do that, and it is considered in the industry as a BRILLIANT marketing move. Did it work? I ate one slice of their execrable pizza after that announcement, and if anything it was worse than before.
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6th June 2012, 07:41 AM	#144
pgwenthold Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 12,066	Originally Posted by BenBurch Did it work? YES They sold a crapload more than they did before. That's the goal of marketing. To get people to buy stuff. It was brilliant. They took crappy pizza and changed it, told everyone it was better, and they bought it. Doesn't matter whether it was better or not, people bought it. In fact, if it isn't any better it all the more demonstrates the success of their marketing campaign. The product is just as bad, but you sell a lot more. Cha-ching! That's what marketing is all about.
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6th June 2012, 07:56 AM	#145
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Romney is selling himself that way, too.
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6th June 2012, 09:48 AM	#146
jnelso99 Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 444	Originally Posted by BenBurch Did it work? I ate one slice of their execrable pizza after that announcement, and if anything it was worse than before. I hate Domino's' pizza, but I love their hot wings. Always a conundrum when deciding what pizza to order...
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6th June 2012, 09:52 AM	#147
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by jnelso99 I hate Domino's' pizza, but I love their hot wings. Always a conundrum when deciding what pizza to order... Pizza Hut hotwings are pretty good.
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6th June 2012, 10:27 AM	#149
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 10,416	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Sinking? That implies Obama's numbers are continuing to go down, but they aren't. He took a hit on IEM as well over the weekend, though his numbers have stopped declining and have reversed a bit in the last 24 hours. I noticed the same pattern on Intrade just a few minutes ago. The interesting thing to me is to see that his bundled poll numbers over at RCP don't seem to have shifted downwards at all. In fact, they seem to have gone up by about 0.2-0.4% in the last week, though this probably means little to nothing since that's well within the noise level. Down to 52.1 today. Like I said, and sinking.
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6th June 2012, 10:33 AM	#150
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	A bargain. Too bad it's going to be ten days before I can buy. I think the inflection point may be gone by then.
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6th June 2012, 11:27 AM	#151
maxpower1227 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,015	The electoral map is still showing quite positively for Obama, with the only recent change being WI changing from "leans Dem" to "toss up". Polls however seem to be leaning nearly more or less unanimously toward Obama, though, despite the fact that they just re-elected scumbag Walker. Can anyone make sense of that?
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6th June 2012, 11:30 AM	#152
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by maxpower1227 The electoral map is still showing quite positively for Obama, with the only recent change being WI changing from "leans Dem" to "toss up". Polls however seem to be leaning nearly more or less unanimously toward Obama, though, despite the fact that they just re-elected scumbag Walker. Can anyone make sense of that? 60% of those voting thought recall should only be for official misconduct. A fair position to take and one that does not say how you plan to vote in November.
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6th June 2012, 03:44 PM	#153
easycruise Muse Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: In chains I can bereave in Posts: 720	Originally Posted by RandFan Wow. Simply stunning straw men. Good job easy. Attack positions that people don't hold. It's not very novel and it's not valid but I suppose it's fun in it's own way. Well, when you say ridiculous statements like yours you should expect to get parodied and made fun of. BTW, nice to know you agree with Dick Cheney and that deficits don't matter. lol. Originally Posted by maxpower1227 though, despite the fact that they just re-elected scumbag Walker. Can anyone make sense of that? Yep, a very happy day for me that Walker won by a bigger margin than the previous election he had with the same guy. I'm a big Walker fan. Taking it to those greedy unions big time! People are coming to their senses now that the bloom is off the "Obama infatuation" rose. Sad to see that $16 million was wasted on this recall election that was nothing more than a left-wing temper tantrum
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6th June 2012, 03:50 PM	#154
maxpower1227 Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,015	Originally Posted by easycruise Yep, a very happy day for me that Walker won by a bigger margin than the previous election he had with the same guy. I'm a big Walker fan. Taking it to those greedy unions big time! People are coming to their senses now that the bloom is off the "Obama infatuation" rose. Sad to see that $16 million was wasted on this recall election that was nothing more than a left-wing temper tantrum That's nice. What part of that explained Obama's lead in the Wisconsin polls?
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7th June 2012, 10:49 AM	#155
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by easycruise Well, when you say ridiculous statements like yours you should expect to get parodied and made fun of. BTW, nice to know you agree with Dick Cheney and that deficits don't matter. A.) Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one. Asserting that the statement is ridiculous doesn't make it so. Do you have an argument. B.) You are still engaging in straw men. Please to show where I said "deficits don't matter"? Of course deficits matter but they are significant relevant to GDP.
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11th June 2012, 11:50 PM	#157
stevea Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,117	Originally Posted by RandFan When Obama took office unemployment was rising. Now it is declining. You ignore that labor force participation rate has been and continues to drop badly under Obama. http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS11300000 Lower unemployment by having an additional 2.5% of the population drop out of the work force is NOT selling point for Obama efforts. == Quote: We were in recession and not we are expanding. The DOW was 8000 now it's 12000. Did you imagine recessions last forever ? This is just another business cycle - tho' a severely deep one. Growth is anemic and tenuous. The question is clearly are Obama's policies preventing a robust recovery ? What you are ignoring are the components of GDP - Gov spending is up and business investment is down. That does not describe a healthy growing economy. It describes an economy on life support. Well 2008 Obama wanted us to be more like France - and with high structural unemployment massive social spending and anemic growth - it looks like he succeeded. Quote: We were in one very serious hole thanks to all of that biz/finance experience of the "experts". Such nonsense. It's so easy to ascribe problems to nefarious individuals when you've failed to understand what happened. It was a bubble - just like the dot-com bubble but bigger. Your need to look for personal villains speaks to primitive economic thinking based on cartoonish views. Quote: Sorry, but the last thing we need is a business person who only knows how to sell off the assets and lay people off to increase dividends. Is that all Bain capital did ? You really believe that ? Did you know Mittens' has done a lot besides Bain ? Whereas Obama's relevant experience in the private sector is what exactly ? Quote: Government isn't a business and it shouldn't be run like one. No one suggested government should be run quite like a business - so thanks for the straw-man. Further no sensible person attributes all of the economy to the emperor errr president. So what qualities does Obama have that prepares him to address the economy ? Stop switching the topic. I'm no Romney fan - but Romney seems to have a clear advantage in finance, econ background, organizational skills and understanding of the private sector. Obama fails badly along these lines. Romney appears to be fairly middle of the road politically while Obama has some occasional outbursts of radical leftism. I don't think either of these yahoos cares a jot about civil liberties and a constitutional limited government. It's not clear which one is the bigger war-monger - they both lose on that account. It's the lesser of two weasels choice again..
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12th June 2012, 12:43 AM	#158
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,128	Originally Posted by stevea What you are ignoring are the components of GDP - Gov spending is up and business investment is down. That does not describe a healthy growing economy. It describes an economy on life support. Obama inherited a nightmare and the indicators have turned around. That's not debatable. Quote: Such nonsense. It's so easy to ascribe problems to nefarious individuals when you've failed to understand what happened. It was a bubble - just like the dot-com bubble but bigger. Your need to look for personal villains speaks to primitive economic thinking based on cartoonish views. First off, a straw man and nonsense. Yes there was a bubble, a bubble that was the result of misfeasance. I'm not looking for anyone nefarious (that's all in your head). I'm simply pointing out the realities of failure to lead and the greed of those who packaged lousy investments in complex derivatives. It was entirely unnecessary and the result of ignoring lessons learned from the Great Depression. Quote: Is that all Bain capital did ? You really believe that ? Did you know Mittens' has done a lot besides Bain ? Whereas Obama's relevant experience in the private sector is what exactly ? Romney is running away from everything other than Bain. Obama doesn't need experience in the private sector. We've sufficient history to know that is just a red herring. Quote: I'm no Romney fan - but Romney seems to have a clear advantage in finance, econ background, organizational skills and understanding of the private sector. There's no basis to presuppose that experience in the private sector is at all necessary for a president to effectively govern. That's just ad hoc rationalization.
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12th June 2012, 07:08 AM	#159
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,091	Originally Posted by RandFan ... There's no basis to presuppose that experience in the private sector is at all necessary for a president to effectively govern. That's just ad hoc rationalization. And you are supported by history as well. In fact, I think you can show the opposite bias.
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