Thank You Rumsfeld

ZeeGerman · 24th January 2003, 02:17 AM

All praise Donald,
with his (stupid) remark about France and Germany representing the "old Europe" he did more to get our two nations to stick their heads together than 40 years of Elysee-treaty ever could.
Keep up the good work!

Zee

Jon_in_london · 24th January 2003, 04:37 AM

Bush Aministration II: attack of the master diplomats. not.

Crossbow · 24th January 2003, 04:46 AM

I have never heard Don R. say anything of import.

If you listen to his Pentagon briefings, you will find that he never says anything that has not already been said by someone else. Instead of using these briefings as an opportunity to distribute new information, he uses them to berate others and reiterate old data.

How did this guy get his current job?

Seesh!

24th January 2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crossbow
. Instead of using these briefings as an opportunity to distribute new information, he uses them to berate others and reiterate old data.

How did this guy get his current job?

Seesh!

"I've spent my whole life trying to find crazy ways to do things."

~~Montgomery Scott

panduh · 24th January 2003, 03:31 PM

Both the Commandant Rumsfeld and the "Mouth of Sauron" Ari Fleischer use an interesting technique of belligerently not answering questions asked by the reporters and instead telling them what they should be asking. The funny thing is, except for a pitiful few reporters (Helen Thomas, Russ Morkhiber), most of them just bend over and take it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Crossbow
I have never heard Don R. say anything of import.

If you listen to his Pentagon briefings, you will find that he never says anything that has not already been said by someone else. Instead of using these briefings as an opportunity to distribute new information, he uses them to berate others and reiterate old data.

How did this guy get his current job?

Seesh!

Shane Costello · 24th January 2003, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by ZeeGerman:

Quote:

All praise Donald,
with his (stupid) remark about France and Germany representing the "old Europe" he did more to get our two nations to stick their heads together than 40 years of Elysee-treaty ever could.
Keep up the good work!

Zee

"Keep up the good work" is a message we could send to Herr Schroeder and Msr. Chirac. Herr Schroeders work consists of presiding over a crumbling economy. Understandably his priority is to sue as many people as possible for speculating about his private life and even more critically whether he dyes his hair.

Jacque Chirac likes nothing more than to gouge the French taxpayer.

Isn't Europe lucky to have such titans directing it's affairs? We should be grateful to Donald Rumsfeld for bringing these great men together in a spirit of even greater cooperation.

Edited to acknowledge whatever German politician it was that compared GW Bush to Hitler.

Jedi Knight · 24th January 2003, 06:42 PM

Mr. Secretary Rumsfeld is the man and don't you people forget it. You should all have a banquet in his honor and post a monument somewhere in his name.

JK

Frank Newgent · 24th January 2003, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Washington, DC, January 23 (Reuters) United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld denied rumors of an unfavorable brain-imaging catscan from a recent medical checkup while speaking during a press conference this past weekend: "I do not, can not and never will have lesions in those areas of the frontal lobe believed responsible for critical thought and rational decision making. May we maintain purity of essence in this ongoing struggle against those who would tap and impurify our precious bodily fluids."

An anonomous source at Bethesda Medical Center was quoted as saying that Rumsfeld had also been informed his fits of compulsive masturbation had to stop. When questioned as to whether a possible cardiac weakness or deterioration of the upper arm might result, the source was quoted as saying: "Hell no. He's just been scaring the living **** out of my other patients in the waiting room."

(Any correspondence to lines from the movie Dr. Strangelove is purely intentional...)

RIP Terry Southern

24th January 2003, 09:28 PM

The honorable Jedi Knight sez

"Mr. Secretary Rumsfeld is the man and don't you people forget it. You should all have a banquet in his honor and post a monument somewhere in his name.

JK"

Agreed, I'm very much looking forward to seeing much more of Mr. Rumsfeld on television in the coming days. Good news does call for a feast. Frog legs and wienerschnitzel for all, washed down with the fear pizzle of a thousand of Saddam's European collaborators.

Frank Newgent · 25th January 2003, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Douglas
...the fear pizzle of a thousand of Saddam's European collaborators.

Would this be a Dresser-Rand or Dresser-Ingersoll Pump Co reference?

corplinx · 25th January 2003, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Crossbow
I have never heard Don R. say anything of import.

That is exactly right and was why he was hired. I listened to Dick Morris the other day talking about how Bush had a much more leakproof White House than Clinton. I think Rumsfeld is a good example of that. Right after 9-11, he had a press briefing where he basically gave a phillipic about the importance of keeing classified info classified. He is tight lipped, and he expects it of others.

armageddonman · 27th January 2003, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Mr. Secretary Rumsfeld is the man and don't you people forget it. You should all have a banquet in his honor and post a monument somewhere in his name.

JK

Yes, he's the man who shook hands with Saddam.

Jedi Knight · 27th January 2003, 04:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by armageddonman

Yes, he's the man who shook hands with Saddam.

Of course, under the orders of President Reagan. It is diplomatic courtesy.

JK

armageddonman · 27th January 2003, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Of course, under the orders of President Reagan. It is diplomatic courtesy.

JK

To shake hands with an evil dictator who threatens the world with weapons of mass destruction is "diplomatic courtesy"? Would you consider giving biological weapons to the same dictator to be "diplomatic courtesy" as well? Because that's what the US did.

Jedi Knight · 27th January 2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by armageddonman

To shake hands with an evil dictator who threatens the world with weapons of mass destruction is "diplomatic courtesy"? Would you consider giving biological weapons to the same dictator to be "diplomatic courtesy" as well? Because that's what the US did.

Mr. Rumsfeld shook hands with Saddam Hussein in the early 1980's. Explain to me why that matters now.

Was Rumsfeld psychic? You seem to think he should have been. Is it the responsibility of men who shake hands with other men to know with predetermined accuracy if those men they shake hands with become evil men like Saddam?

Did the German people who embraced Hitler know that he was going to eliminate millions of Jews? Why did the German people embrace Hitler? Why did they go along with it?

Also, the reason Germany and France aren't going along with the US is because your country and France provided technical resources and other resources to Saddam to help Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and other weapons. German engineers built most of Saddam's military bunkers in Iraq and designed them.

I think the German and French fear of US attack on Iraq is based on what the US is going to find out once we get inside there and start really digging.

I bet that we find a lot of connections between Mannheim's chemical plants and Saddam's chemical weapons programs.

JK

armageddonman · 27th January 2003, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
]

Mr. Rumsfeld shook hands with Saddam Hussein in the early 1980's. Explain to me why that matters now.

In the 80s Saddam was supported by the US, now he's THE ENEMY. He's the same person as he used to be, so why is he opposed by the US today and wasn't in the 80s?

Quote:

Was Rumsfeld psychic? You seem to think he should have been. Is it the responsibility of men who shake hands with other men to know with predetermined accuracy if those men they shake hands with become evil men like Saddam?

He was evil then and everybody knew it. Noone did anything when he gased the Kurds (I blame my own government for this as well).

Quote:

Also, the reason Germany and France aren't going along with the US is because your country and France provided technical resources and other resources to Saddam to help Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and other weapons. German engineers built most of Saddam's military bunkers in Iraq and designed them.

As did the US. Where do you think, Saddam got his Anthrax from?

Quote:

I think the German and French fear of US attack on Iraq is based on what the US is going to find out once we get inside there and start really digging.

It can't be worse than what we know about the US/Iraqi relations NOW.

Quote:

I bet that we find a lot of connections between Mannheim's chemical plants and Saddam's chemical weapons programs.

JK [/b]

See my comment about the biological weapons.

Another question, JK: isn't North Korea a greater threat than Iraq? Why don't the US threaten war to Noth Korea?

subgenius · 27th January 2003, 07:45 AM

Rumsfeld and Cheney provided Saddam with the weapons we now are going to war over.

ZeeGerman · 27th January 2003, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Also, the reason Germany and France aren't going along with the US is because your country and France provided technical resources and other resources to Saddam to help Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and other weapons. German engineers built most of Saddam's military bunkers in Iraq and designed them.

I think the German and French fear of US attack on Iraq is based on what the US is going to find out once we get inside there and start really digging.

I bet that we find a lot of connections between Mannheim's chemical plants and Saddam's chemical weapons programs.

JK

Please provide some evidence for the claim that German engineers built MOST of Saddam's bunkers, I doubt it. Anyway, there have been some transfers of technology that might be used for WMD from Germany to Iraq. BUT these transfers were commited illegally by some German companies and have been dealt with in court accordingly. The military support Saddam got from the US on the other hand was the official line of US policy and I think that's in a completely different ball park.

That is really what bothers me the most in the whole current Iraq discussion. Saddam was supported by the US in the 80s because he was the enemy of the enemy. Now the same gang of US politicians wants to take him out because he got really dangerous. Surprise, surprise!

Don't get me wrong,
I DO think that Saddam's regime must be brought to an end, violently if necessary. I disagree with my government's current policy of unconditional refusal to a violent solution, because it takes pressure off Saddam. But I completely lack the faith that the current US government is accountable and far sighted enough to find a lasting solution for middle east, once the war is over. The most probably coming war might solve the Saddam problem but I fear the worst for what comes after that...

aerocontrols · 27th January 2003, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
That is really what bothers me the most in the whole current Iraq discussion. Saddam was supported by the US in the 80s because he was the enemy of the enemy. Now the same gang of US politicians wants to take him out because he got really dangerous. Surprise, surprise!

Not the first time. Eisenhower was such a hypocrite.

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
Don't get me wrong,
I DO think that Saddam's regime must be brought to an end, violently if necessary. I disagree with my government's current policy of unconditional refusal to a violent solution, because it takes pressure off Saddam. But I completely lack the faith that the current US government is accountable and far sighted enough to find a lasting solution for middle east, once the war is over. The most probably coming war might solve the Saddam problem but I fear the worst for what comes after that...

I agree that it would be much better if France and Germany were standing up to Saddam militarily. Unfortunately, they are not.

MattJ

27th January 2003, 11:17 AM

Just wait until we kick Saddam's butt out of Iraq and set up our own matriarchal totalitarian government and establish the Commie left wing liberal biased media there. Maybe then the rest of the world will see what it's missing.

a_unique_person · 27th January 2003, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shane Costello
Originally posted by ZeeGerman:

"Keep up the good work" is a message we could send to Herr Schroeder and Msr. Chirac. Herr Schroeders work consists of presiding over a crumbling economy. Understandably his priority is to sue as many people as possible for speculating about his private life and even more critically whether he dyes his hair.

compared to the US, where the economy is just going ahead at full steam .... not.

The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US.

Shane Costello · 28th January 2003, 02:23 AM

Originallyu posted by a_unique_person:

Quote:

The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US

So you don't consider the fact that growth rates in Europe are near zero while those in America are at 2.5% per annum indicative of anything?

What about the fact that German and French unemployment is about twice that of the US or UK?

What about the fact that Germany is facing it's worst economic crisis in 50 years, with many businesses giving serious consideration to leaving the country altogether?

Jedi Knight · 28th January 2003, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by a_unique_person

compared to the US, where the economy is just going ahead at full steam .... not.

The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US.

You know what is ironic, Adolf Hitler wanted to unify Europe into one mass-socialist mob, and it has happened. Hitler would be so proud. Also, another irony, the Euro is centralized where--gosh--Germany! Again, Hitler would be so proud!

Show me one socialist state that "grows" wealth. Socialist states steal wealth from the citizen. That is what socialism does. You all should have looked at Spain before becoming socialists.

JK

Aardvark_DK · 28th January 2003, 02:42 AM

Well, JK, isn't it fortunate that none of the European countries are socialist?

Shane Costello · 28th January 2003, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK:

Quote:

Well, JK, isn't it fortunate that none of the European countries are socialist?

So what party does Gerhard Schroeder represent?

Aardvark_DK · 28th January 2003, 05:41 AM

Socialists and social democrats ain't the same thing. Sorry.

Drooper · 28th January 2003, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK
Socialists and social democrats ain't the same thing. Sorry.

and Democratic Socialists... welll...

Drooper · 28th January 2003, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by a_unique_person

compared to the US, where the economy is just going ahead at full steam .... not.

The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US.

Except a LOT more unemployed people.

Drooper · 28th January 2003, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
Please provide some evidence for the claim that German engineers built MOST of Saddam's bunkers, I doubt it. Anyway, there have been some transfers of technology that might be used for WMD from Germany to Iraq. BUT these transfers were commited illegally by some German companies and have been dealt with in court accordingly. The military support Saddam got from the US on the other hand was the official line of US policy and I think that's in a completely different ball park.

As a point of interest. Germany was Iraq's largest trading partner immediately prior to the GW part 1.

While I would be horrified to find JK agree with anyhthing I said, this fact does tend to put German claims about US motivations over Iraq into a slightly different context.

ZeeGerman · 28th January 2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Drooper

As a point of interest. Germany was Iraq's largest trading partner immediately prior to the GW part 1.

While I would be horrified to find JK agree with anyhthing I said, this fact does tend to put German claims about US motivations over Iraq into a slightly different context.

Now, what exactly are you insinuating? That the German government is afraid that some evidence of support for Saddams WMD program provided by German companies more than 10 years ago might show up now? And you base that imputation on the fact that Germany did more trading with Iraq than any other country? So what? Was the trading illegal? No. We have been and still are the largest trading partner to many countries.

Really, the implication coming from JK should be sufficient for any halfway intelligent person to recognize it as utter ********.

Zee

Jedi Knight · 28th January 2003, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
Really, the implication coming from JK should be sufficient for any halfway intelligent person to recognize it as utter ********.

Zee

Zee, the United States leaked the fact that we assisted Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to be used against the Iranians so that it could cushion the knowledge that Germany, France and other countries also did it. We said we would take the political hit for it and we did.

Almost every multi-level bunker in Iraq that the United States and coalition forces destroyed in the first gulf war was built and/or designed by German engineers.

But alas, your government and France, etc, helped Saddam after the 1991 war, against UN resolutions. Don't let it bother you though, we still like you. Just make sure you show up for the Persian Gulf War II in support. (No more peacenik BS).

JK

ZeeGerman · 28th January 2003, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Zee, the United States leaked the fact that we assisted Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to be used against the Iranians so that it could cushion the knowledge that Germany, France and other countries also did it. We said we would take the political hit for it and we did.

I am moved to tears about this selfless taking the blame.. (sniff) You are so good (double sniff)...
Care to provide some evidence?

Quote:

Almost every multi-level bunker in Iraq that the United States and coalition forces destroyed in the first gulf war was built and/or designed by German engineers.

You said that already. I asked for evidence to support that claim. Still waiting... Besides, a bunker seems to be a highly defensive installation so what exactly is your point here anyway?

Quote:

But alas, your government and France, etc, helped Saddam after the 1991 war, against UN resolutions.

I already stated that there have been trades by German companies in breach with the UN resolutions. Nothing new here. But that they were backed by the our government is simply a lie.

Quote:

Don't let it bother you though, we still like you.

Don't worry JK, you are far too low in the food chain to bother me

Zee

Drooper · 28th January 2003, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman

Now, what exactly are you insinuating? That the German government is afraid that some evidence of support for Saddams WMD program provided by German companies more than 10 years ago might show up now? And you base that imputation on the fact that Germany did more trading with Iraq than any other country? So what? Was the trading illegal? No. We have been and still are the largest trading partner to many countries.

Really, the implication coming from JK should be sufficient for any halfway intelligent person to recognize it as utter ********.

Zee

This has nothing to do with anything coming from JK.

This has to do with the French and German claims of taking the moral high ground onn this issue.

I contend that both these countries have geopolitical interests and objectives in Iraq that are motivating their policy and actions.

I could go a bit further and suggest that the issue of domestic policy motivation is there as well (i.e. playing to the home crowd) In Germany, Schroder/Fischler electioneering to extremely anti war electorate, Bush/Rumsfeld playing the domestic US anti terror vote.

Jedi Knight · 28th January 2003, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
Don't worry JK, you are far too low in the food chain to bother me

Zee

I hear that. I won't even go into how France helped Saddam. But maybe your governments are worried and that is why they cowered behind Saddam, huh.

JK

ZeeGerman · 28th January 2003, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

I hear that. I won't even go into how France helped Saddam. But maybe your governments are worried and that is why they cowered behind Saddam, huh.

JK

Dang! Now you got me. I admit it. We are secretly trying to buy WMD from Saddam so we can finally bomb out the remainder of the imperialistic US forces who still occupie my beloved country out for good. Man how I hate it when they move their sluggish Hummers on our super fast Autobahnen and slow down traffic for miles.

Zee

Jedi Knight · 28th January 2003, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman

Dang! Now you got me. I admit it. We are secretly trying to buy WMD from Saddam so we can finally bomb out the remainder of the imperialistic US forces who still occupie my beloved country out for good. Man how I hate it when they move their sluggish Hummers on our super fast Autobahnen and slow down traffic for miles.

Zee

At least they aren't peeing in your swimbot, mein herr.

JK

ZeeGerman · 28th January 2003, 07:56 AM

What'S a swimbot?

Zee

Jedi Knight · 28th January 2003, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
What'S a swimbot?

Zee

Schwimm-Bot. You know, where the frau's hang out half-naked.

JK

ZeeGerman · 28th January 2003, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Schwimm-Bot. You know, where the frau's hang out half-naked.

JK

This gets more and more bizarre... Half naked women hanging out of boats

Either you are the victim of a wet dream or I have missed one of the greatest attractions my country has to offer, in which case I'd like to ask you for more details

Zee

Nasarius · 28th January 2003, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZeeGerman

This gets more and more bizarre... Half naked women hanging out of boats
Either you are the victim of a wet dream or I have missed one of the greatest attractions my country has to offer, in which case I'd like to ask you for more details

Zee

I'm guessing he means Schwimmbad...

24th January 2003, 02:17 AM	#1
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Thank You Rumsfeld All praise Donald, with his (stupid) remark about France and Germany representing the "old Europe" he did more to get our two nations to stick their heads together than 40 years of Elysee-treaty ever could. Keep up the good work! Zee
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")

24th January 2003, 04:37 AM	#2
Jon_in_london Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 4,994	Bush Aministration II: attack of the master diplomats. not.
	__________________ Radicals and Racists Don't point your finger at me I'm a small town white boy Just tryin' to make ends meet Don't need your religion Don't watch that much T.V. Just makin' my livin', baby Well that's enough for me

24th January 2003, 04:46 AM	#3
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 6,294	I have never heard Don R. say anything of import. If you listen to his Pentagon briefings, you will find that he never says anything that has not already been said by someone else. Instead of using these briefings as an opportunity to distribute new information, he uses them to berate others and reiterate old data. How did this guy get his current job? Seesh!
	__________________ A man's best friend is his dogma.

24th January 2003, 03:07 PM	#4
Guest Posts: n/a	Quote: Originally posted by Crossbow . Instead of using these briefings as an opportunity to distribute new information, he uses them to berate others and reiterate old data. How did this guy get his current job? Seesh! "I've spent my whole life trying to find crazy ways to do things." ~~Montgomery Scott
Guest Posts: n/a

24th January 2003, 03:31 PM	#5
panduh Student Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 47	Both the Commandant Rumsfeld and the "Mouth of Sauron" Ari Fleischer use an interesting technique of belligerently not answering questions asked by the reporters and instead telling them what they should be asking. The funny thing is, except for a pitiful few reporters (Helen Thomas, Russ Morkhiber), most of them just bend over and take it. Quote: Originally posted by Crossbow I have never heard Don R. say anything of import. If you listen to his Pentagon briefings, you will find that he never says anything that has not already been said by someone else. Instead of using these briefings as an opportunity to distribute new information, he uses them to berate others and reiterate old data. How did this guy get his current job? Seesh!
panduh Student Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 47	__________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety." --Benjamin Franklin ""The President is bound to stop at the limits prescribed by our Constitution and law to the authorities in his hands, [and this] would apply in an occasion of peace as well as war." -- Thomas Jefferson

24th January 2003, 04:10 PM	#6
Shane Costello Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,235	Originally posted by ZeeGerman: Quote: All praise Donald, with his (stupid) remark about France and Germany representing the "old Europe" he did more to get our two nations to stick their heads together than 40 years of Elysee-treaty ever could. Keep up the good work! Zee "Keep up the good work" is a message we could send to Herr Schroeder and Msr. Chirac. Herr Schroeders work consists of presiding over a crumbling economy. Understandably his priority is to sue as many people as possible for speculating about his private life and even more critically whether he dyes his hair. Jacque Chirac likes nothing more than to gouge the French taxpayer. Isn't Europe lucky to have such titans directing it's affairs? We should be grateful to Donald Rumsfeld for bringing these great men together in a spirit of even greater cooperation. Edited to acknowledge whatever German politician it was that compared GW Bush to Hitler.

24th January 2003, 06:42 PM	#7
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Mr. Secretary Rumsfeld is the man and don't you people forget it. You should all have a banquet in his honor and post a monument somewhere in his name. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

24th January 2003, 08:13 PM	#8
Frank Newgent Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,689	Ask not "what is the problem?" but, rather, "where is the lesion?" Quote: Washington, DC, January 23 (Reuters) United States Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld denied rumors of an unfavorable brain-imaging catscan from a recent medical checkup while speaking during a press conference this past weekend: "I do not, can not and never will have lesions in those areas of the frontal lobe believed responsible for critical thought and rational decision making. May we maintain purity of essence in this ongoing struggle against those who would tap and impurify our precious bodily fluids." An anonomous source at Bethesda Medical Center was quoted as saying that Rumsfeld had also been informed his fits of compulsive masturbation had to stop. When questioned as to whether a possible cardiac weakness or deterioration of the upper arm might result, the source was quoted as saying: "Hell no. He's just been scaring the living **** out of my other patients in the waiting room." (Any correspondence to lines from the movie Dr. Strangelove is purely intentional...) RIP Terry Southern
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski

24th January 2003, 09:28 PM	#9
Douglas Guest Posts: n/a	The honorable Jedi Knight sez "Mr. Secretary Rumsfeld is the man and don't you people forget it. You should all have a banquet in his honor and post a monument somewhere in his name. JK" Agreed, I'm very much looking forward to seeing much more of Mr. Rumsfeld on television in the coming days. Good news does call for a feast. Frog legs and wienerschnitzel for all, washed down with the fear pizzle of a thousand of Saddam's European collaborators.
Douglas Guest Posts: n/a

25th January 2003, 06:35 AM	#10
Frank Newgent Illuminator Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 4,689	Quote: Originally posted by Douglas ...the fear pizzle of a thousand of Saddam's European collaborators. Would this be a Dresser-Rand or Dresser-Ingersoll Pump Co reference?
	__________________ Disturbances of the semantic reactions in connection with faulty education and ignorance must be considered as sub-microscopic colloidal lesions - Alfred O. Korzybski

25th January 2003, 09:30 PM	#11
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944	Quote: Originally posted by Crossbow *I have never heard Don R. say anything* of import.** That is exactly right and was why he was hired. I listened to Dick Morris the other day talking about how Bush had a much more leakproof White House than Clinton. I think Rumsfeld is a good example of that. Right after 9-11, he had a press briefing where he basically gave a phillipic about the importance of keeing classified info classified. He is tight lipped, and he expects it of others.
corplinx JREF Kid Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 8,944

27th January 2003, 02:13 AM	#12
armageddonman Muse Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 502	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Mr. Secretary Rumsfeld is the man and don't you people forget it. You should all have a banquet in his honor and post a monument somewhere in his name. JK Yes, he's the man who shook hands with Saddam.
armageddonman Muse Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 502	__________________ Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

27th January 2003, 04:01 AM	#13
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by armageddonman Yes, he's the man who shook hands with Saddam. Of course, under the orders of President Reagan. It is diplomatic courtesy. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

27th January 2003, 04:55 AM	#14
armageddonman Muse Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 502	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Of course, under the orders of President Reagan. It is diplomatic courtesy. JK To shake hands with an evil dictator who threatens the world with weapons of mass destruction is "diplomatic courtesy"? Would you consider giving biological weapons to the same dictator to be "diplomatic courtesy" as well? Because that's what the US did.
armageddonman Muse Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 502	__________________ Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

27th January 2003, 05:50 AM	#15
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by armageddonman To shake hands with an evil dictator who threatens the world with weapons of mass destruction is "diplomatic courtesy"? Would you consider giving biological weapons to the same dictator to be "diplomatic courtesy" as well? Because that's what the US did. Mr. Rumsfeld shook hands with Saddam Hussein in the early 1980's. Explain to me why that matters now. Was Rumsfeld psychic? You seem to think he should have been. Is it the responsibility of men who shake hands with other men to know with predetermined accuracy if those men they shake hands with become evil men like Saddam? Did the German people who embraced Hitler know that he was going to eliminate millions of Jews? Why did the German people embrace Hitler? Why did they go along with it? Also, the reason Germany and France aren't going along with the US is because your country and France provided technical resources and other resources to Saddam to help Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and other weapons. German engineers built most of Saddam's military bunkers in Iraq and designed them. I think the German and French fear of US attack on Iraq is based on what the US is going to find out once we get inside there and start really digging. I bet that we find a lot of connections between Mannheim's chemical plants and Saddam's chemical weapons programs. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

27th January 2003, 07:09 AM	#16
armageddonman Muse Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 502	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight ] Mr. Rumsfeld shook hands with Saddam Hussein in the early 1980's. Explain to me why that matters now. In the 80s Saddam was supported by the US, now he's THE ENEMY. He's the same person as he used to be, so why is he opposed by the US today and wasn't in the 80s? Quote: Was Rumsfeld psychic? You seem to think he should have been. Is it the responsibility of men who shake hands with other men to know with predetermined accuracy if those men they shake hands with become evil men like Saddam? He was evil then and everybody knew it. Noone did anything when he gased the Kurds (I blame my own government for this as well). Quote: Also, the reason Germany and France aren't going along with the US is because your country and France provided technical resources and other resources to Saddam to help Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and other weapons. German engineers built most of Saddam's military bunkers in Iraq and designed them. As did the US. Where do you think, Saddam got his Anthrax from? Quote: I think the German and French fear of US attack on Iraq is based on what the US is going to find out once we get inside there and start really digging. It can't be worse than what we know about the US/Iraqi relations NOW. Quote: I bet that we find a lot of connections between Mannheim's chemical plants and Saddam's chemical weapons programs. JK [/b] See my comment about the biological weapons. Another question, JK: isn't North Korea a greater threat than Iraq? Why don't the US threaten war to Noth Korea?
armageddonman Muse Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 502	__________________ Hail Eris! All Hail Discordia!

27th January 2003, 07:45 AM	#17
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	Rumsfeld and Cheney provided Saddam with the weapons we now are going to war over.
subgenius Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 4,788	__________________ "The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is Fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any controlling private power."---Franklin D. Roosevelt Proud to be Liberal

27th January 2003, 08:57 AM	#18
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Also, the reason Germany and France aren't going along with the US is because your country and France provided technical resources and other resources to Saddam to help Saddam develop weapons of mass destruction and other weapons. German engineers built most of Saddam's military bunkers in Iraq and designed them. I think the German and French fear of US attack on Iraq is based on what the US is going to find out once we get inside there and start really digging. I bet that we find a lot of connections between Mannheim's chemical plants and Saddam's chemical weapons programs. JK Please provide some evidence for the claim that German engineers built MOST of Saddam's bunkers, I doubt it. Anyway, there have been some transfers of technology that might be used for WMD from Germany to Iraq. BUT these transfers were commited illegally by some German companies and have been dealt with in court accordingly. The military support Saddam got from the US on the other hand was the official line of US policy and I think that's in a completely different ball park. That is really what bothers me the most in the whole current Iraq discussion. Saddam was supported by the US in the 80s because he was the enemy of the enemy. Now the same gang of US politicians wants to take him out because he got really dangerous. Surprise, surprise! Don't get me wrong, I DO think that Saddam's regime must be brought to an end, violently if necessary. I disagree with my government's current policy of unconditional refusal to a violent solution, because it takes pressure off Saddam. But I completely lack the faith that the current US government is accountable and far sighted enough to find a lasting solution for middle east, once the war is over. The most probably coming war might solve the Saddam problem but I fear the worst for what comes after that...
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")

27th January 2003, 09:00 AM	#19
aerocontrols Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 3,445	Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman That is really what bothers me the most in the whole current Iraq discussion. Saddam was supported by the US in the 80s because he was the enemy of the enemy. Now the same gang of US politicians wants to take him out because he got really dangerous. Surprise, surprise! Not the first time. Eisenhower was such a hypocrite. Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman Don't get me wrong, I DO think that Saddam's regime must be brought to an end, violently if necessary. I disagree with my government's current policy of unconditional refusal to a violent solution, because it takes pressure off Saddam. But I completely lack the faith that the current US government is accountable and far sighted enough to find a lasting solution for middle east, once the war is over. The most probably coming war might solve the Saddam problem but I fear the worst for what comes after that... I agree that it would be much better if France and Germany were standing up to Saddam militarily. Unfortunately, they are not. MattJ
	__________________ Misunderestimated in 2000. Unredefeated in 2004. My dog does his tricks. My roomate's dog tries to escape the kitchen. We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's, and trading with interest. Source

27th January 2003, 11:17 AM	#20
Smalso Guest Posts: n/a	Just wait until we kick Saddam's butt out of Iraq and set up our own matriarchal totalitarian government and establish the Commie left wing liberal biased media there. Maybe then the rest of the world will see what it's missing.
Smalso Guest Posts: n/a

27th January 2003, 07:00 PM	#21
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mt Disappointment Posts: 33,341	Quote: Originally posted by Shane Costello Originally posted by ZeeGerman: "Keep up the good work" is a message we could send to Herr Schroeder and Msr. Chirac. Herr Schroeders work consists of presiding over a crumbling economy. Understandably his priority is to sue as many people as possible for speculating about his private life and even more critically whether he dyes his hair. compared to the US, where the economy is just going ahead at full steam .... not. The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes

28th January 2003, 02:23 AM	#22
Shane Costello Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,235	Originallyu posted by a_unique_person: Quote: The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US So you don't consider the fact that growth rates in Europe are near zero while those in America are at 2.5% per annum indicative of anything? What about the fact that German and French unemployment is about twice that of the US or UK? What about the fact that Germany is facing it's worst economic crisis in 50 years, with many businesses giving serious consideration to leaving the country altogether?

28th January 2003, 02:32 AM	#23
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by a_unique_person compared to the US, where the economy is just going ahead at full steam .... not. The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US. You know what is ironic, Adolf Hitler wanted to unify Europe into one mass-socialist mob, and it has happened. Hitler would be so proud. Also, another irony, the Euro is centralized where--gosh--Germany! Again, Hitler would be so proud! Show me one socialist state that "grows" wealth. Socialist states steal wealth from the citizen. That is what socialism does. You all should have looked at Spain before becoming socialists. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

28th January 2003, 02:42 AM	#24
Aardvark_DK Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 448	Well, JK, isn't it fortunate that none of the European countries are socialist?
	__________________ Too many DVDs \|\| "Introducing some stunning occurrence or the total impact of something completely strange and unheard of in the hope of evoking meaningless exclamations of wonder is a vulgarity which is incompatible with art created for the people" - Kim Jong-il

28th January 2003, 05:25 AM	#25
Shane Costello Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,235	Originally posted by Aardvark_DK: Quote: Well, JK, isn't it fortunate that none of the European countries are socialist? So what party does Gerhard Schroeder represent?

28th January 2003, 05:41 AM	#26
Aardvark_DK Critical Thinker Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 448	Socialists and social democrats ain't the same thing. Sorry.
	__________________ Too many DVDs \|\| "Introducing some stunning occurrence or the total impact of something completely strange and unheard of in the hope of evoking meaningless exclamations of wonder is a vulgarity which is incompatible with art created for the people" - Kim Jong-il

28th January 2003, 05:49 AM	#27
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983	Quote: Originally posted by Aardvark_DK Socialists and social democrats ain't the same thing. Sorry. and Democratic Socialists... welll...
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983

28th January 2003, 05:50 AM	#28
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983	Quote: Originally posted by a_unique_person compared to the US, where the economy is just going ahead at full steam .... not. The crumbling european socialist big government economies is the standard comeback. Only they are still there, and having no more problems than the US. Except a LOT more unemployed people.
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983

28th January 2003, 05:59 AM	#29
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983	Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman Please provide some evidence for the claim that German engineers built MOST of Saddam's bunkers, I doubt it. Anyway, there have been some transfers of technology that might be used for WMD from Germany to Iraq. BUT these transfers were commited illegally by some German companies and have been dealt with in court accordingly. The military support Saddam got from the US on the other hand was the official line of US policy and I think that's in a completely different ball park. As a point of interest. Germany was Iraq's largest trading partner immediately prior to the GW part 1. While I would be horrified to find JK agree with anyhthing I said, this fact does tend to put German claims about US motivations over Iraq into a slightly different context.
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983

28th January 2003, 06:47 AM	#30
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Quote: Originally posted by Drooper As a point of interest. Germany was Iraq's largest trading partner immediately prior to the GW part 1. While I would be horrified to find JK agree with anyhthing I said, this fact does tend to put German claims about US motivations over Iraq into a slightly different context. Now, what exactly are you insinuating? That the German government is afraid that some evidence of support for Saddams WMD program provided by German companies more than 10 years ago might show up now? And you base that imputation on the fact that Germany did more trading with Iraq than any other country? So what? Was the trading illegal? No. We have been and still are the largest trading partner to many countries. Really, the implication coming from JK should be sufficient for any halfway intelligent person to recognize it as utter ********. Zee
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")

28th January 2003, 06:52 AM	#31
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman Really, the implication coming from JK should be sufficient for any halfway intelligent person to recognize it as utter ******. Zee Zee, the United States leaked the fact that we assisted Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to be used against the Iranians so that it could cushion the knowledge that Germany, France and other countries also did it. We said we would take the political hit for it and we did. Almost every multi-level bunker in Iraq that the United States and coalition forces destroyed in the first gulf war was built and/or designed by German engineers. But alas, your government and France, etc, helped Saddam after** the 1991 war, against UN resolutions. Don't let it bother you though, we still like you. Just make sure you show up for the Persian Gulf War II in support. (No more peacenik BS). JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

28th January 2003, 07:10 AM	#32
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight Zee, the United States leaked the fact that we assisted Saddam with weapons of mass destruction to be used against the Iranians so that it could cushion the knowledge that Germany, France and other countries also did it. We said we would take the political hit for it and we did. I am moved to tears about this selfless taking the blame.. (sniff) You are so good (double sniff)... Care to provide some evidence? Quote: Almost every multi-level bunker in Iraq that the United States and coalition forces destroyed in the first gulf war was built and/or designed by German engineers. You said that already. I asked for evidence to support that claim. Still waiting... Besides, a bunker seems to be a highly defensive installation so what exactly is your point here anyway? Quote: But alas, your government and France, etc, helped Saddam after the 1991 war, against UN resolutions. I already stated that there have been trades by German companies in breach with the UN resolutions. Nothing new here. But that they were backed by the our government is simply a lie. Quote: Don't let it bother you though, we still like you. Don't worry JK, you are far too low in the food chain to bother me Zee
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")

28th January 2003, 07:16 AM	#33
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983	Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman Now, what exactly are you insinuating? That the German government is afraid that some evidence of support for Saddams WMD program provided by German companies more than 10 years ago might show up now? And you base that imputation on the fact that Germany did more trading with Iraq than any other country? So what? Was the trading illegal? No. We have been and still are the largest trading partner to many countries. Really, the implication coming from JK should be sufficient for any halfway intelligent person to recognize it as utter ********. Zee This has nothing to do with anything coming from JK. This has to do with the French and German claims of taking the moral high ground onn this issue. I contend that both these countries have geopolitical interests and objectives in Iraq that are motivating their policy and actions. I could go a bit further and suggest that the issue of domestic policy motivation is there as well (i.e. playing to the home crowd) In Germany, Schroder/Fischler electioneering to extremely anti war electorate, Bush/Rumsfeld playing the domestic US anti terror vote.
Drooper Guest Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 1,983

28th January 2003, 07:37 AM	#34
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734	Quote: Originally posted by ZeeGerman Don't worry JK, you are far too low in the food chain to bother me Zee I hear that. I won't even go into how France helped Saddam. But maybe your governments are worried and that is why they cowered behind Saddam, huh. JK
Jedi Knight Banned Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 2,734

28th January 2003, 07:47 AM	#35
ZeeGerman Muse Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Just far enough from Detroit that it's OK Posts: 784	Quote: Originally posted by Jedi Knight I hear that. I won't even go into how France helped Saddam. But maybe your governments are worried and that is why they cowered behind Saddam, huh. JK Dang! Now you got me. I admit it. We are secretly trying to buy WMD from Saddam so we can finally bomb out the remainder of the imperialistic US forces who still occupie my beloved country out for good. Man how I hate it when they move their sluggish Hummers on our super fast Autobahnen and slow down traffic for miles. Zee
	__________________ Wenn die Katze ein Pferd wäre, könnte man die Bäume raufreiten. Afta ol, ve arr frrom ze lend of tschoklet (The Simpsons "Das Kraftwerk")