Jehovah's Witness Calling

cyborg · 13th May 2012, 02:32 PM

i had a vist from some witnesses today.

I did not let them go easily.

We came to an impass at my insistence that questions should be more important than answers. When I asked why Adam and Eve "made sense" I was given a series of statments about their religion I already knew. I tried to explain the difference between statements and explanations to no avail.

It ended with them walking away after I started talking about how Zorastrianism was a dead end religion because unlike their belief it did not advocate trying to get as many adherents as possible especially by way of conversion and basically trying to point out how that was one reason their Christainity was moving. A point they acknowledged as I shouted out the various theological differences between Cathoiicism, Islam, Protestantism and Mormanism to them.

They said they wanted to fiind "humble" people to talk to.

It has left me wondering if anyone has ever had a productive discussion with door-to-door preachers. I've never had any until I moved to where I am now (East London - a poorer area and full of minor religious groups) and I have had three now.

Is it pointless? Probably - I'm sure you don't get let out to talk to heathens unless you're considered to have sufficient god armour.

Agatha · 13th May 2012, 02:45 PM

I've had one lot recently, I just say "not interested" and shut the door. But I live in the rural midlands, so we don't get a lot of callers door to door.

I don't know if it's a productive exercise to talk to them, but if you have the time and inclination it can't do any harm to you.

jj · 13th May 2012, 02:47 PM

One of the JW's is the only person my dog has actively growled and bared her teeth at. Said creep put his foot in the door, I said GET OUT, and the dog decided to play hero, and scared the guy down the steps.

I find one can discuss things politely with Mormons, but not with most JW's. A simple "we do not share your faith, please don't feel offended" works charms with the LDS, but the JW's just take that as an excuse to "educate" one. The reply "THE WORLD HAS YET TO END" just doesn't seem to handle it all, either. Shutting the door does it.

Squeegee Beckenheim · 13th May 2012, 02:53 PM

My brother's a Jehovah's Witness. He and his wife have never once tried to discuss their religion with me. They both know how that conversation would go.

As for have I ever had a productive meeting with a door-to-door preacher? I haven't (I tend not to answer my door. If it's anything or anyone I'd be interested in they'd have rung me first), but my mum has. Back when I was at school, in the year dot, she had a young man fresh off the boat from somewhere or other come and try to preach to her. She invited him in for a cuppa and spent the next hour politely demolishing all his arguments. By the time he left, he said he'd realised that he'd never really thought about the subject properly before and that he realised that some of his beliefs seemed a little silly when examined logically. I don't know what ever happened to him, but that's a good start.

The only time I ever really get into discussions like that is either on boards like this, or by those preachers who stop you in the street. A couple of friends and I were stopped by a group of young lads who tried to preach to us for about half an hour. They even split the three of us up and had each of us talked to by 2 each of them. Eventually, all 6 of them stopped trying when it became apparent that all 3 of us knew more about what the Bible actually said than any of them did.

Segnosaur · 13th May 2012, 02:56 PM

I ended up getting a phone call from a Jehovah's witness once. (I was living in a condo that had a secure entrance. They apparently got everyone's names from the panel in the front.)

I decided that that since I had some free time, I would do everything I could to waste their efforts (to hopefully keep them from bothering other people.) After a while, it was they that wanted to hang up/leave. Still I wasted a good chunk of their time.

cyborg · 13th May 2012, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

After a while, it was they that wanted to hang up/leave. Still I wasted a good chunk of their time.

That was much the feeling I inspired. I would happily spend my Sunday debating with them but it would only ever be on my rules - after all it is my front porch they came to, what else could they expect? I expect it is probably different in other places but in England we don't really do religion publically so they would always be on thee back foot. I would like to have thought I could inspire thought but somehow I don't think I did.

At least there's always Oxford Circus if I want to meet the "be a winner not a sinner" guy. Who I've seen in the past but from what I understand may not be there anymore. London is an odd place to live.

IMST · 13th May 2012, 03:22 PM

Only encounter I've ever had with JW's door to door went about like this:
Them: Do you have a optimistic or pessimistic view of the future?
Me (seeing a Watchtower with them): Generally optimistic, but I'm guessing you're going to disagree.
Them: I think you must be confusing us with someone else.
Me: I'm confusing you with Jehovah's Witnesses.
Them: Jehovah's Witnesses have an optimistic view of the future!!
Me: How many times has the world ended now?
Them: *leave*

Tacita · 13th May 2012, 03:59 PM

Well there was the time my ex-JW hubby scared some Mormons away by arguing them to death, his version vs. theirs... it was brilliant.

Nay_Sayer · 13th May 2012, 05:25 PM

They will actually turn the other way if they see me, I have damaged them that much.

I'm terrible.

Horatius · 14th May 2012, 05:36 PM

Originally Posted by jj

I find one can discuss things politely with Mormons, but not with most JW's. A simple "we do not share your faith, please don't feel offended" works charms with the LDS, but the JW's just take that as an excuse to "educate" one. The reply "THE WORLD HAS YET TO END" just doesn't seem to handle it all, either. Shutting the door does it.

I found out one time back in High School that "My Catholic Grandma in the kitchen wouldn't like it if I talked to you" worked wonders. And it wasn't even a lie; when Grandma asked me who was at the door, she got mad and started waving her wooden spoon around, talking about how arrogant they were to be coming around preaching at us at home.

Grandma was a tough old lady!

Originally Posted by Segnosaur

I ended up getting a phone call from a Jehovah's witness once. (I was living in a condo that had a secure entrance. They apparently got everyone's names from the panel in the front.)

I decided that that since I had some free time, I would do everything I could to waste their efforts (to hopefully keep them from bothering other people.) After a while, it was they that wanted to hang up/leave. Still I wasted a good chunk of their time.

Did this happen in Waterloo? Because I had almost the same experience. They called the one day I was home sick during grad school, and so I decided to play with them (it was more interesting than day time TV, after all). Even after I tried to convert them to atheism , they still wanted to come by and drop off literature, so I said I'd read their stuff if they took a book from me. They even lived up to that deal, not that they likely read the book. "The Case Against Creationism", it was.

jasonpatterson · 14th May 2012, 06:35 PM

I actually had a pair of JW today. They were a couple of older women who were very ill equipped to find someone who enjoys arguing with proselytizers, and after about 5 minutes they were ready to run. My favorite question is asking them what they could tell me about their religion to convince me that a Muslim proselytizer couldn't.

I had been talking to a few others on and off for some time, arguing with them about whatever they tried to sell me, but they eventually started flat out lying. After I pointed out to them that their literature was full of falsehoods and misrepresentations (a booklet about evolution, can't recall the title) and gave them point by point examples of those falsehoods and misrepresentations, I asked if they would continue handing out that booklet, knowing that it was clearly false. They told me that they didn't consider it to be false in spite of direct evidence to the contrary and I told them that they were no longer welcome at my house.

I did have one positive experience with a pair of proselytizers, an older man and a teenaged girl. After 20 minutes or so they left, but the girl had clearly been troubled by some of the points that I made, and I'm hoping that the wheels kept turning in her head after that conversation.

Honestly, I rarely get a chance to exercise my brain with other adults right now, and if someone wants to come by and give me a chance to stretch my neurons a bit I'm more than happy to let them.

dropzone · 15th May 2012, 07:04 AM

They send out anybody, often with no training or talent for evangelizing, and they are never the brightest lights so I cut them a break. "Stretching my neurons" on Witnesses seems sadistic, like leading a half-blind professor into a closed door.

On a hot day my wife invites them in so they can have a sit and a glass of cold water.

Lamuella · 15th May 2012, 07:11 AM

No idea if I've had JWs, but I tend to find a polite "I'm afraid you're wasting your time, I'm not religious, but I hope you have a lovely day" works wonders on the various people I've had witnessing at my front door. I don't see the mileage in trying to argue with them.

dlorde · 15th May 2012, 07:23 AM

I had a very friendly elderly couple come to the door a couple of weeks ago. I didn't let them in, but on the doorstep queried their invitation to hear the good news of Jesus and the bible by asking them about the nasty parts. They didn't really want to talk about those bits, but said I should read the bible - so I smiled and told them the reason I lost my faith was because I had read the bible, and if they were to read it properly, they might understand why. They left quite quickly.

It wasn't exactly the truth, but close enough.

13th May 2012, 02:32 PM	#1
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Jehovah's Witness Calling i had a vist from some witnesses today. I did not let them go easily. We came to an impass at my insistence that questions should be more important than answers. When I asked why Adam and Eve "made sense" I was given a series of statments about their religion I already knew. I tried to explain the difference between statements and explanations to no avail. It ended with them walking away after I started talking about how Zorastrianism was a dead end religion because unlike their belief it did not advocate trying to get as many adherents as possible especially by way of conversion and basically trying to point out how that was one reason their Christainity was moving. A point they acknowledged as I shouted out the various theological differences between Cathoiicism, Islam, Protestantism and Mormanism to them. They said they wanted to fiind "humble" people to talk to. It has left me wondering if anyone has ever had a productive discussion with door-to-door preachers. I've never had any until I moved to where I am now (East London - a poorer area and full of minor religious groups) and I have had three now. Is it pointless? Probably - I'm sure you don't get let out to talk to heathens unless you're considered to have sufficient god armour.
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	__________________ The phrase deus ex machina (literally "god out of a machine") describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot...

13th May 2012, 02:45 PM	#2
Agatha Winking at the Moon Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: UK Posts: 4,226	I've had one lot recently, I just say "not interested" and shut the door. But I live in the rural midlands, so we don't get a lot of callers door to door. I don't know if it's a productive exercise to talk to them, but if you have the time and inclination it can't do any harm to you.
	__________________ People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... timey wimey... stuff.

13th May 2012, 02:47 PM	#3
jj grumpy old skeptic Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Deep in the rain Posts: 18,519	One of the JW's is the only person my dog has actively growled and bared her teeth at. Said creep put his foot in the door, I said GET OUT, and the dog decided to play hero, and scared the guy down the steps. I find one can discuss things politely with Mormons, but not with most JW's. A simple "we do not share your faith, please don't feel offended" works charms with the LDS, but the JW's just take that as an excuse to "educate" one. The reply "THE WORLD HAS YET TO END" just doesn't seem to handle it all, either. Shutting the door does it.
	__________________ The Power to Quit

13th May 2012, 02:53 PM	#4
Squeegee Beckenheim Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 4,259	My brother's a Jehovah's Witness. He and his wife have never once tried to discuss their religion with me. They both know how that conversation would go. As for have I ever had a productive meeting with a door-to-door preacher? I haven't (I tend not to answer my door. If it's anything or anyone I'd be interested in they'd have rung me first), but my mum has. Back when I was at school, in the year dot, she had a young man fresh off the boat from somewhere or other come and try to preach to her. She invited him in for a cuppa and spent the next hour politely demolishing all his arguments. By the time he left, he said he'd realised that he'd never really thought about the subject properly before and that he realised that some of his beliefs seemed a little silly when examined logically. I don't know what ever happened to him, but that's a good start. The only time I ever really get into discussions like that is either on boards like this, or by those preachers who stop you in the street. A couple of friends and I were stopped by a group of young lads who tried to preach to us for about half an hour. They even split the three of us up and had each of us talked to by 2 each of them. Eventually, all 6 of them stopped trying when it became apparent that all 3 of us knew more about what the Bible actually said than any of them did.
	__________________ I don't trust atoms. They make up everything.

13th May 2012, 02:56 PM	#5
Segnosaur Philosopher Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Canada, eh? Posts: 6,070	I ended up getting a phone call from a Jehovah's witness once. (I was living in a condo that had a secure entrance. They apparently got everyone's names from the panel in the front.) I decided that that since I had some free time, I would do everything I could to waste their efforts (to hopefully keep them from bothering other people.) After a while, it was they that wanted to hang up/leave. Still I wasted a good chunk of their time.
	__________________ Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer I cheered when then the WTC came down. - UndercoverElephant (a.k.a. JustGeoff) I cheer Bin Laden... - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Bin Laden delivered justice - JustGeoff (a.k.a. UndercoverElephant) Men shop for lingerie the way kids shop for breakfast cereal... they will buy something they know nothing about, just to get the prize inside. - Jeff Foxworthy

13th May 2012, 03:04 PM	#6
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	Originally Posted by Segnosaur After a while, it was they that wanted to hang up/leave. Still I wasted a good chunk of their time. That was much the feeling I inspired. I would happily spend my Sunday debating with them but it would only ever be on my rules - after all it is my front porch they came to, what else could they expect? I expect it is probably different in other places but in England we don't really do religion publically so they would always be on thee back foot. I would like to have thought I could inspire thought but somehow I don't think I did. At least there's always Oxford Circus if I want to meet the "be a winner not a sinner" guy. Who I've seen in the past but from what I understand may not be there anymore. London is an odd place to live.
cyborg deus ex machina Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,974	__________________ The phrase deus ex machina (literally "god out of a machine") describes an unexpected, artificial, or improbable character, device, or event introduced suddenly in a work of fiction or drama to resolve a situation or untangle a plot...

13th May 2012, 03:22 PM	#7
IMST If Charlie Parker Was a Gunslinger, There'd Be a Whole Lot of Dead Copycats Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Seattle Posts: 6,130	Only encounter I've ever had with JW's door to door went about like this: Them: Do you have a optimistic or pessimistic view of the future? Me (seeing a Watchtower with them): Generally optimistic, but I'm guessing you're going to disagree. Them: I think you must be confusing us with someone else. Me: I'm confusing you with Jehovah's Witnesses. Them: Jehovah's Witnesses have an optimistic view of the future!! Me: How many times has the world ended now? Them: leave
	__________________ Creativity is more than just being different. Anybody can plan weird; that's easy. What's hard is to be as simple as Bach. Making the simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. - Charles Mingus

13th May 2012, 03:59 PM	#8
Tacita Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 508	Well there was the time my ex-JW hubby scared some Mormons away by arguing them to death, his version vs. theirs... it was brilliant.
Tacita Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 508	__________________ I don't care what people say about me, as long as it isn't true.

13th May 2012, 05:25 PM	#9
Nay_Sayer Muse Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 747	They will actually turn the other way if they see me, I have damaged them that much. I'm terrible.

14th May 2012, 05:36 PM	#10
Horatius NWO Kitty Wrangler Join Date: May 2006 Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada Posts: 21,894	Originally Posted by jj I find one can discuss things politely with Mormons, but not with most JW's. A simple "we do not share your faith, please don't feel offended" works charms with the LDS, but the JW's just take that as an excuse to "educate" one. The reply "THE WORLD HAS YET TO END" just doesn't seem to handle it all, either. Shutting the door does it. I found out one time back in High School that "My Catholic Grandma in the kitchen wouldn't like it if I talked to you" worked wonders. And it wasn't even a lie; when Grandma asked me who was at the door, she got mad and started waving her wooden spoon around, talking about how arrogant they were to be coming around preaching at us at home. Grandma was a tough old lady! Originally Posted by Segnosaur I ended up getting a phone call from a Jehovah's witness once. (I was living in a condo that had a secure entrance. They apparently got everyone's names from the panel in the front.) I decided that that since I had some free time, I would do everything I could to waste their efforts (to hopefully keep them from bothering other people.) After a while, it was they that wanted to hang up/leave. Still I wasted a good chunk of their time. Did this happen in Waterloo? Because I had almost the same experience. They called the one day I was home sick during grad school, and so I decided to play with them (it was more interesting than day time TV, after all). Even after I tried to convert them to atheism , they still wanted to come by and drop off literature, so I said I'd read their stuff if they took a book from me. They even lived up to that deal, not that they likely read the book. "The Case Against Creationism", it was.
	__________________ Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd

14th May 2012, 06:35 PM	#11
jasonpatterson Philanthropic Misanthrope Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Space, The Final Frontier Posts: 2,183	I actually had a pair of JW today. They were a couple of older women who were very ill equipped to find someone who enjoys arguing with proselytizers, and after about 5 minutes they were ready to run. My favorite question is asking them what they could tell me about their religion to convince me that a Muslim proselytizer couldn't. I had been talking to a few others on and off for some time, arguing with them about whatever they tried to sell me, but they eventually started flat out lying. After I pointed out to them that their literature was full of falsehoods and misrepresentations (a booklet about evolution, can't recall the title) and gave them point by point examples of those falsehoods and misrepresentations, I asked if they would continue handing out that booklet, knowing that it was clearly false. They told me that they didn't consider it to be false in spite of direct evidence to the contrary and I told them that they were no longer welcome at my house. I did have one positive experience with a pair of proselytizers, an older man and a teenaged girl. After 20 minutes or so they left, but the girl had clearly been troubled by some of the points that I made, and I'm hoping that the wheels kept turning in her head after that conversation. Honestly, I rarely get a chance to exercise my brain with other adults right now, and if someone wants to come by and give me a chance to stretch my neurons a bit I'm more than happy to let them.
	__________________ Sandra's seen a leprechaun, Eddie touched a troll, Laurie danced with witches once, Charlie found some goblins' gold. Donald heard a mermaid sing, Susie spied an elf, But all the magic I have known I've had to make myself. - Shel Silverstein

15th May 2012, 07:04 AM	#12
dropzone Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 1,666	They send out anybody, often with no training or talent for evangelizing, and they are never the brightest lights so I cut them a break. "Stretching my neurons" on Witnesses seems sadistic, like leading a half-blind professor into a closed door. On a hot day my wife invites them in so they can have a sit and a glass of cold water.

15th May 2012, 07:11 AM	#13
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480	No idea if I've had JWs, but I tend to find a polite "I'm afraid you're wasting your time, I'm not religious, but I hope you have a lovely day" works wonders on the various people I've had witnessing at my front door. I don't see the mileage in trying to argue with them.
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480

15th May 2012, 07:23 AM	#14
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,647	I had a very friendly elderly couple come to the door a couple of weeks ago. I didn't let them in, but on the doorstep queried their invitation to hear the good news of Jesus and the bible by asking them about the nasty parts. They didn't really want to talk about those bits, but said I should read the bible - so I smiled and told them the reason I lost my faith was because I had read the bible, and if they were to read it properly, they might understand why. They left quite quickly. It wasn't exactly the truth, but close enough.
dlorde Illuminator Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 4,647	__________________ Simple probability tells us that we should expect coincidences, and simple psychology tells us that we'll remember the ones we notice... Last edited by dlorde; 15th May 2012 at 07:24 AM.