How many True Christians are there?

CplFerro · 14th May 2012, 01:28 PM

Dear All,

I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True?

Cpl Ferro

AvalonXQ · 14th May 2012, 01:41 PM

Seventeen.

Wait, no, sixteen. Crazy Iranians.

Lowpro · 14th May 2012, 01:44 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

Dear All,

I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True?

Cpl Ferro

Well that more or less sounds like fanaticism. Does that mean that the people who take snake bites for Christ are true christians? Or those people in South America who freely crucify themselves?

JoeBentley · 14th May 2012, 01:50 PM

How many True Scotsman are there?

crimresearch · 14th May 2012, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

Dear All,

I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True?

Cpl Ferro

See, that's just the definition of Christian cooked up by the early Christians...
They were too busy getting eaten by lions and such to understand that True Christianity involves following a hierachy of priests, and seeking as much money as possible by any means neccessary.

AvalonXQ · 14th May 2012, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

How many True Scotsman are there?

Twenty-nine.

Wait, no, twenty-eight. Darn manual transmission.

crimresearch · 14th May 2012, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Well that more or less sounds like fanaticism. Does that mean that the people who take snake bites for Christ are true christians? Or those people in South America who freely crucify themselves?

Errrrmm... if you are talking about snake handling denominations, the snake won't bite you if you are a TC.

MG1962 · 14th May 2012, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

Dear All,

I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True?

Cpl Ferro

So you have created a proposition - then shot it down in flames, then challenged others to prove you wrong - all without a shred of evidence....fascinating

Scott Haley · 14th May 2012, 01:55 PM

I don't think that the Bible has such a tough standards. There's a difference between saying that Christians should die for their faith if it comes to that, and saying that if they won't, they're not Christians at all.

Jorghnassen · 14th May 2012, 01:59 PM

As many as there are True Scotsmen.

Dinwar · 14th May 2012, 02:01 PM

I thought that Revelations answered that question.

CplFerro · 14th May 2012, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Haley

I don't think that the Bible has such a tough standards. There's a difference between saying that Christians should die for their faith if it comes to that, and saying that if they won't, they're not Christians at all.

Dear Scott,

We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have?

Cpl Ferro

MG1962 · 14th May 2012, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

Dear Scott,

We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have?

Cpl Ferro

And when do you plan to offer evidence Christians are not prepared to die for their faith

crimresearch · 14th May 2012, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Scott Haley

I don't think that the Bible has such a tough standards. There's a difference between saying that Christians should die for their faith if it comes to that, and saying that if they won't, they're not Christians at all.

Where exactly does the Bible define 'Christian'?

Last I checked, it used that word very sparingly, and in specific reference to actual discipleship, or for those who suffered the same way Christ did... under harsh conditions and persecution.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_t...r_in_the_Bible

Other passages seem to indicate that there is a very high threshold involving living as a literal 24/7 servant to Christ... something approached by some orders of nuns and monks.

But hey, who needs a book, when you've got Evangelicals to show you the Way?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elist_scandals

Lowpro · 14th May 2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by crimresearch

Errrrmm... if you are talking about snake handling denominations, the snake won't bite you if you are a TC.

No it's that the snake venom won't cause you any injury if you're a TC. It's not that the snake won't bite, in fact they agitate the hell out of the snake to get them to bite, or straight up stab the snake's fangs into you.

BravesFan · 14th May 2012, 02:11 PM

Talk about just putting it on a tee and waiting for everyone to swing away.......

dafydd · 14th May 2012, 02:15 PM

None.

CplFerro · 14th May 2012, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by MG1962

And when do you plan to offer evidence Christians are not prepared to die for their faith

Dear MG,

Where would I come by such evidence?

I can judge from my own experience in church that there's at least one person there who probably won't die for Christ and therefore can hardly be called a True Christian.

Cpl Ferro

mijopaalmc · 14th May 2012, 02:20 PM

Do True Christians™ wear nothing under their kilts and put sugar on their porridge?

Lowpro · 14th May 2012, 02:29 PM

Is being a true christian attributed through demonstration or mindset? I know a lot of people who won't die for Christ because that's not what Christ wanted. He wanted them to live for Him...

Beerina · 14th May 2012, 02:36 PM

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

How many True Scotsman are there?

Scottsmen only wear skirts. Jesus wore a full-length dress.

Dog Breakfast · 14th May 2012, 02:54 PM

I guess this horse has been beaten, but the distinction you're making isn't between "Christians" and "True Christians," it is between "Non-Christians" and "Christians."

If you think Christians should be able to have enough faith to not die from snake bites, then people who do die from snake bites are non-Christians.

crimresearch · 14th May 2012, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Lowpro

No it's that the snake venom won't cause you any injury if you're a TC. It's not that the snake won't bite, in fact they agitate the hell out of the snake to get them to bite, or straight up stab the snake's fangs into you.

As I recall, the Bible says that drinking poison won't harm them and that they will handle snakes... nothing about being bitten.

In another section it says that those testing the Lord (which of course, would put them out of the TC category) will be 'destroyed by serpents', which implies that the snakes know to only bite the fakers.

(As opposed to India, where they won't bite the fakirs)...

Vortigern99 · 14th May 2012, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

How many True Scotsman are there?

Beat me to it.

Scott Haley · 14th May 2012, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

Dear Scott,

We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have?

Cpl Ferro

"All have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord.". As I understand Christian theology, a Christian should strive to be perfect, but only Jesus actually is. Everyone else must confess his sins & be forgiven.

dafydd · 14th May 2012, 03:36 PM

A true Christain would give all their wealth away, as instructed by Jesus.

Dinwar · 14th May 2012, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have?

People over-estimate what it takes to be willing to die for something. I once ran into a hail of rifle fire to get someone I didn't even particularly like off the fence. It wasn't faith, or some paternal instinct; I just was really, really mad and didn't want the guys with the guns to score a kill.

People also don't understand what it takes to test whether you're willing to die or not. It's one thing to say you are while sitting in a comfortable chair and sipping a warm (or cold) beverage. It's a whole 'nother world once bullets start flying, or once you see the glint of a knife's edge. It's another world again once you feel that first explosion of pain. It breaks some people; it hardens others.

What I've found, though, is that it's not the major stuff that makes or breaks you. My marriage has had a number of pretty serious make-or-break moments, and they were all relatively easy. The hard parts are things like making sure the marriage exists during the slow periods. Who does the dishes and how often is much more likely to break up a relationship than whether you're willing to die for the other person.

Similarly, what defines a true Christian isn't going to be their willingness to die for their beliefs. It's going to be whether they're willing to do the mundane stuff their beliefs require. Are you willing to go to mass every Sunday? Are you willing to give 7% or 10% of your income to th church? Are you willing to do all those little things that Christians are required to do? Because those are happening ALL THE TIME--every moment of our lives is a test of our devotion to our chosen philosophies/religions.

When it comes to lifestyles, philosophies of life, etc., catastraphism is a broken method of testing devotion. Most don't break with the church with a sudden snap--most break from it a long, long time before they actually leave it, gradually and over a period of years.

It's always funny to see how atheists like myself can understand religion batter than theists....

maggot9779 · 14th May 2012, 04:01 PM

Well, there are quite a few people (ie fanatics bordering on insane) who would die for "Christ's message" but whether they are are "True Christians" or not depends on whether they agree with YOUR interpretation of this "message".

So you could be alone in the world, or you could not.

dafydd · 14th May 2012, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

People over-estimate what it takes to be willing to die for something. I once ran into a hail of rifle fire to get someone I didn't even particularly like off the fence. It wasn't faith, or some paternal instinct; I just was really, really mad and didn't want the guys with the guns to score a kill.

People also don't understand what it takes to test whether you're willing to die or not. It's one thing to say you are while sitting in a comfortable chair and sipping a warm (or cold) beverage. It's a whole 'nother world once bullets start flying, or once you see the glint of a knife's edge. It's another world again once you feel that first explosion of pain. It breaks some people; it hardens others.

What I've found, though, is that it's not the major stuff that makes or breaks you. My marriage has had a number of pretty serious make-or-break moments, and they were all relatively easy. The hard parts are things like making sure the marriage exists during the slow periods. Who does the dishes and how often is much more likely to break up a relationship than whether you're willing to die for the other person.

Similarly, what defines a true Christian isn't going to be their willingness to die for their beliefs. It's going to be whether they're willing to do the mundane stuff their beliefs require. Are you willing to go to mass every Sunday? Are you willing to give 7% or 10% of your income to th church? Are you willing to do all those little things that Christians are required to do? Because those are happening ALL THE TIME--every moment of our lives is a test of our devotion to our chosen philosophies/religions.

When it comes to lifestyles, philosophies of life, etc., catastraphism is a broken method of testing devotion. Most don't break with the church with a sudden snap--most break from it a long, long time before they actually leave it, gradually and over a period of years.

It's always funny to see how atheists like myself can understand religion batter than theists....

I now somebody who nearly died while trying to find his cigarettes in a burning building.

dafydd · 14th May 2012, 04:24 PM

A true Christian would do everything that Jesus instructed them to do. If we ever find a true Christian then they should be exhibited under a glass case.

MusicMan · 14th May 2012, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

A true Christain would give all their wealth away, as instructed by Jesus.

And abandon their families to follow Jeebus!

Tricky · 14th May 2012, 04:58 PM

Very few. Most wobble a little and need to have a spoke or two tightened.

tsig · 14th May 2012, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by JoeBentley

How many True Scotsman are there?

One hundred, all pipers.

CplFerro · 14th May 2012, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dinwar

People over-estimate what it takes to be willing to die for something. I once ran into a hail of rifle fire to get someone I didn't even particularly like off the fence. It wasn't faith, or some paternal instinct; I just was really, really mad and didn't want the guys with the guns to score a kill.

People also don't understand what it takes to test whether you're willing to die or not. It's one thing to say you are while sitting in a comfortable chair and sipping a warm (or cold) beverage. It's a whole 'nother world once bullets start flying, or once you see the glint of a knife's edge. It's another world again once you feel that first explosion of pain. It breaks some people; it hardens others.

What I've found, though, is that it's not the major stuff that makes or breaks you. My marriage has had a number of pretty serious make-or-break moments, and they were all relatively easy. The hard parts are things like making sure the marriage exists during the slow periods. Who does the dishes and how often is much more likely to break up a relationship than whether you're willing to die for the other person.

Similarly, what defines a true Christian isn't going to be their willingness to die for their beliefs. It's going to be whether they're willing to do the mundane stuff their beliefs require. Are you willing to go to mass every Sunday? Are you willing to give 7% or 10% of your income to th church? Are you willing to do all those little things that Christians are required to do? Because those are happening ALL THE TIME--every moment of our lives is a test of our devotion to our chosen philosophies/religions.

When it comes to lifestyles, philosophies of life, etc., catastraphism is a broken method of testing devotion. Most don't break with the church with a sudden snap--most break from it a long, long time before they actually leave it, gradually and over a period of years.

It's always funny to see how atheists like myself can understand religion batter than theists....

Dear Dinwar,

That's an interesting point. But, it relies a little too much on denominational conformity--the real test of a Christian should be if he lives his life with love for his fellow-men, not how often he attend church, no? In that case, how many people do you think count as True Christians?

Cpl Ferro

HansMustermann · 14th May 2012, 05:06 PM

Brothers and sisters, let us open the good book to the Revelation of St John, chapter 3, verses 14 to 16 and read what Jesus himself has to say:

14. "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write:

These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation.

15. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!

16. So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

I don't know about "True Christians", but I thought it's worth pointing out that Jebus himself sets a pretty high standard in Revelation. The whole idea of being a moderate Christian is definitely not what the author of Revelation saw as the right way to be a Christian, and really it's what Jesus threatens a whole church for.

Tricky · 14th May 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by CplFerro

Dear Dinwar,

That's an interesting point. But, it relies a little too much on denominational conformity--the real test of a Christian should be if he lives his life with love for his fellow-men, not how often he attend church, no?

Sounds like a true Secular Humanist to me.

tsig · 14th May 2012, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by mijopaalmc

Do True Christians™ wear nothing under their kilts and put sugar on their porridge?

Yes, don't talk about the sheep.

joseph8th · 14th May 2012, 05:14 PM

Canard.

Anyone who calls themselves "Christian" is de facto a Christian. There are no True Christians -- just Christians bickering and warring over who the True Christians are.

It's truly tiresome. Christianity is an amoral atrocity of historic proportions. I condemn all Christians, True or False.

Tsukasa Buddha · 14th May 2012, 05:34 PM

There is always one, the person themselves. Everyone else is false.

Gord_in_Toronto · 14th May 2012, 05:48 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

None.

{{ WELCOME BACK }}

Now that you are here, I suggest there are two; You and I.

. . .

Except I am not too certain about you.

14th May 2012, 01:28 PM	#1
CplFerro Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,383	How many True Christians are there? Dear All, I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True? Cpl Ferro

14th May 2012, 01:41 PM	#2
AvalonXQ Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11,853	Seventeen. Wait, no, sixteen. Crazy Iranians.
AvalonXQ Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11,853

14th May 2012, 01:44 PM	#3
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,520	Originally Posted by CplFerro Dear All, I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True? Cpl Ferro Well that more or less sounds like fanaticism. Does that mean that the people who take snake bites for Christ are true christians? Or those people in South America who freely crucify themselves?
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

14th May 2012, 01:50 PM	#4
JoeBentley Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 1,764	How many True Scotsman are there?
	__________________ - Opinions require evidence and no before you ask defining something as "Something doesn't require evidence" doesn't count. - In extreme cases continuing to be wrong when you've been repeatedly proven to be wrong is a form of rudeness. - Major in philosophy. That way you can also ask people "why" they would like fries would that.

14th May 2012, 01:52 PM	#5
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by CplFerro Dear All, I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True? Cpl Ferro See, that's just the definition of Christian cooked up by the early Christians... They were too busy getting eaten by lions and such to understand that True Christianity involves following a hierachy of priests, and seeking as much money as possible by any means neccessary.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

14th May 2012, 01:52 PM	#6
AvalonXQ Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11,853	Originally Posted by JoeBentley How many True Scotsman are there? Twenty-nine. Wait, no, twenty-eight. Darn manual transmission.
AvalonXQ Guest Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 11,853

14th May 2012, 01:53 PM	#7
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Lowpro Well that more or less sounds like fanaticism. Does that mean that the people who take snake bites for Christ are true christians? Or those people in South America who freely crucify themselves? Errrrmm... if you are talking about snake handling denominations, the snake won't bite you if you are a TC.
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

14th May 2012, 01:54 PM	#8
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by CplFerro Dear All, I highly doubt that most people who call themselve "Christian" are True Christians. By True Christian I mean someone who would die for Christ's message, or for another person in imitation of Christ. Judging it by this standard, what percentage of people who style themselves Christians are True? Cpl Ferro So you have created a proposition - then shot it down in flames, then challenged others to prove you wrong - all without a shred of evidence....fascinating

14th May 2012, 01:55 PM	#9
Scott Haley Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 562	I don't think that the Bible has such a tough standards. There's a difference between saying that Christians should die for their faith if it comes to that, and saying that if they won't, they're not Christians at all.
Scott Haley Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 562

14th May 2012, 01:59 PM	#10
Jorghnassen Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The realm of ideas Posts: 3,881	As many as there are True Scotsmen.
	__________________ "Help control the local pet population: teach your dog abstinence." -Stephen Colbert "My dad believed laughter is the best medicine. Which is why several of us died of tuberculosis."- Unknown source, heard from Grey Delisle on Rob Paulsen's podcast

14th May 2012, 02:01 PM	#11
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	I thought that Revelations answered that question.
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.

14th May 2012, 02:04 PM	#12
CplFerro Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,383	Originally Posted by Scott Haley I don't think that the Bible has such a tough standards. There's a difference between saying that Christians should die for their faith if it comes to that, and saying that if they won't, they're not Christians at all. Dear Scott, We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have? Cpl Ferro

14th May 2012, 02:08 PM	#13
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by CplFerro Dear Scott, We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have? Cpl Ferro And when do you plan to offer evidence Christians are not prepared to die for their faith

14th May 2012, 02:09 PM	#14
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Scott Haley I don't think that the Bible has such a tough standards. There's a difference between saying that Christians should die for their faith if it comes to that, and saying that if they won't, they're not Christians at all. Where exactly does the Bible define 'Christian'? Last I checked, it used that word very sparingly, and in specific reference to actual discipleship, or for those who suffered the same way Christ did... under harsh conditions and persecution. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_t...r_in_the_Bible Other passages seem to indicate that there is a very high threshold involving living as a literal 24/7 servant to Christ... something approached by some orders of nuns and monks. But hey, who needs a book, when you've got Evangelicals to show you the Way? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...elist_scandals
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

14th May 2012, 02:11 PM	#15
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,520	Originally Posted by crimresearch Errrrmm... if you are talking about snake handling denominations, the snake won't bite you if you are a TC. No it's that the snake venom won't cause you any injury if you're a TC. It's not that the snake won't bite, in fact they agitate the hell out of the snake to get them to bite, or straight up stab the snake's fangs into you.
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

14th May 2012, 02:11 PM	#16
BravesFan Banned Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Ocean Springs, Ms Posts: 1,784	Talk about just putting it on a tee and waiting for everyone to swing away.......

14th May 2012, 02:15 PM	#17
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,456	None.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

14th May 2012, 02:20 PM	#18
CplFerro Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,383	Originally Posted by MG1962 And when do you plan to offer evidence Christians are not prepared to die for their faith Dear MG, Where would I come by such evidence? I can judge from my own experience in church that there's at least one person there who probably won't die for Christ and therefore can hardly be called a True Christian. Cpl Ferro

14th May 2012, 02:20 PM	#19
mijopaalmc Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,634	Do True Christians™ wear nothing under their kilts and put sugar on their porridge?
mijopaalmc Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 4,634

14th May 2012, 02:29 PM	#20
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,520	Is being a true christian attributed through demonstration or mindset? I know a lot of people who won't die for Christ because that's not what Christ wanted. He wanted them to live for Him...
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

14th May 2012, 02:36 PM	#21
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	Originally Posted by JoeBentley How many True Scotsman are there? Scottsmen only wear skirts. Jesus wore a full-length dress.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

14th May 2012, 02:54 PM	#22
Dog Breakfast Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Why not? Posts: 350	I guess this horse has been beaten, but the distinction you're making isn't between "Christians" and "True Christians," it is between "Non-Christians" and "Christians." If you think Christians should be able to have enough faith to not die from snake bites, then people who do die from snake bites are non-Christians.

14th May 2012, 02:55 PM	#23
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618	Originally Posted by Lowpro No it's that the snake venom won't cause you any injury if you're a TC. It's not that the snake won't bite, in fact they agitate the hell out of the snake to get them to bite, or straight up stab the snake's fangs into you. As I recall, the Bible says that drinking poison won't harm them and that they will handle snakes... nothing about being bitten. In another section it says that those testing the Lord (which of course, would put them out of the TC category) will be 'destroyed by serpents', which implies that the snakes know to only bite the fakers. (As opposed to India, where they won't bite the fakirs)...
crimresearch Alumbrado Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 10,618

14th May 2012, 02:59 PM	#24
Vortigern99 Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 5,016	Originally Posted by JoeBentley How many True Scotsman are there? Beat me to it.
	__________________ "I'm 'willing to admit' any fact that can be shown to be evidential and certain." -- Vortigern99 / Noah D. Henson "One thing we've learned (and the Internet confirms this) is that humans will screw just about anything." -- Theagenes

14th May 2012, 03:27 PM	#25
Scott Haley Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 562	Originally Posted by CplFerro Dear Scott, We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have? Cpl Ferro "All have sinned and come short of the glory of the Lord.". As I understand Christian theology, a Christian should strive to be perfect, but only Jesus actually is. Everyone else must confess his sins & be forgiven.
Scott Haley Muse Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 562

14th May 2012, 03:36 PM	#26
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,456	A true Christain would give all their wealth away, as instructed by Jesus.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

14th May 2012, 03:39 PM	#27
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	Originally Posted by CplFerro We are called to be perfect, are we not? If you're not willing to die for your faith, how much faith do you really have? People over-estimate what it takes to be willing to die for something. I once ran into a hail of rifle fire to get someone I didn't even particularly like off the fence. It wasn't faith, or some paternal instinct; I just was really, really mad and didn't want the guys with the guns to score a kill. People also don't understand what it takes to test whether you're willing to die or not. It's one thing to say you are while sitting in a comfortable chair and sipping a warm (or cold) beverage. It's a whole 'nother world once bullets start flying, or once you see the glint of a knife's edge. It's another world again once you feel that first explosion of pain. It breaks some people; it hardens others. What I've found, though, is that it's not the major stuff that makes or breaks you. My marriage has had a number of pretty serious make-or-break moments, and they were all relatively easy. The hard parts are things like making sure the marriage exists during the slow periods. Who does the dishes and how often is much more likely to break up a relationship than whether you're willing to die for the other person. Similarly, what defines a true Christian isn't going to be their willingness to die for their beliefs. It's going to be whether they're willing to do the mundane stuff their beliefs require. Are you willing to go to mass every Sunday? Are you willing to give 7% or 10% of your income to th church? Are you willing to do all those little things that Christians are required to do? Because those are happening ALL THE TIME--every moment of our lives is a test of our devotion to our chosen philosophies/religions. When it comes to lifestyles, philosophies of life, etc., catastraphism is a broken method of testing devotion. Most don't break with the church with a sudden snap--most break from it a long, long time before they actually leave it, gradually and over a period of years. It's always funny to see how atheists like myself can understand religion batter than theists....
Dinwar Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 8,931	__________________ GENERATION 8: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment. Ein krieg ohne feinde.

14th May 2012, 04:01 PM	#28
maggot9779 Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 132	Well, there are quite a few people (ie fanatics bordering on insane) who would die for "Christ's message" but whether they are are "True Christians" or not depends on whether they agree with YOUR interpretation of this "message". So you could be alone in the world, or you could not.
maggot9779 Thinker Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 132

14th May 2012, 04:22 PM	#29
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,456	Originally Posted by Dinwar People over-estimate what it takes to be willing to die for something. I once ran into a hail of rifle fire to get someone I didn't even particularly like off the fence. It wasn't faith, or some paternal instinct; I just was really, really mad and didn't want the guys with the guns to score a kill. People also don't understand what it takes to test whether you're willing to die or not. It's one thing to say you are while sitting in a comfortable chair and sipping a warm (or cold) beverage. It's a whole 'nother world once bullets start flying, or once you see the glint of a knife's edge. It's another world again once you feel that first explosion of pain. It breaks some people; it hardens others. What I've found, though, is that it's not the major stuff that makes or breaks you. My marriage has had a number of pretty serious make-or-break moments, and they were all relatively easy. The hard parts are things like making sure the marriage exists during the slow periods. Who does the dishes and how often is much more likely to break up a relationship than whether you're willing to die for the other person. Similarly, what defines a true Christian isn't going to be their willingness to die for their beliefs. It's going to be whether they're willing to do the mundane stuff their beliefs require. Are you willing to go to mass every Sunday? Are you willing to give 7% or 10% of your income to th church? Are you willing to do all those little things that Christians are required to do? Because those are happening ALL THE TIME--every moment of our lives is a test of our devotion to our chosen philosophies/religions. When it comes to lifestyles, philosophies of life, etc., catastraphism is a broken method of testing devotion. Most don't break with the church with a sudden snap--most break from it a long, long time before they actually leave it, gradually and over a period of years. It's always funny to see how atheists like myself can understand religion batter than theists.... I now somebody who nearly died while trying to find his cigarettes in a burning building.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

14th May 2012, 04:24 PM	#30
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,456	A true Christian would do everything that Jesus instructed them to do. If we ever find a true Christian then they should be exhibited under a glass case.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

14th May 2012, 04:52 PM	#31
MusicMan Student Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Traffic light capital of the U.S. Posts: 33	Originally Posted by dafydd A true Christain would give all their wealth away, as instructed by Jesus. And abandon their families to follow Jeebus!

14th May 2012, 04:58 PM	#32
Tricky Briefly immortal Moderator Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: The Group W bench Posts: 42,359	Very few. Most wobble a little and need to have a spoke or two tightened.

14th May 2012, 05:03 PM	#33
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 26,742	Originally Posted by JoeBentley How many True Scotsman are there? One hundred, all pipers.

14th May 2012, 05:05 PM	#34
CplFerro Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1,383	Originally Posted by Dinwar People over-estimate what it takes to be willing to die for something. I once ran into a hail of rifle fire to get someone I didn't even particularly like off the fence. It wasn't faith, or some paternal instinct; I just was really, really mad and didn't want the guys with the guns to score a kill. People also don't understand what it takes to test whether you're willing to die or not. It's one thing to say you are while sitting in a comfortable chair and sipping a warm (or cold) beverage. It's a whole 'nother world once bullets start flying, or once you see the glint of a knife's edge. It's another world again once you feel that first explosion of pain. It breaks some people; it hardens others. What I've found, though, is that it's not the major stuff that makes or breaks you. My marriage has had a number of pretty serious make-or-break moments, and they were all relatively easy. The hard parts are things like making sure the marriage exists during the slow periods. Who does the dishes and how often is much more likely to break up a relationship than whether you're willing to die for the other person. Similarly, what defines a true Christian isn't going to be their willingness to die for their beliefs. It's going to be whether they're willing to do the mundane stuff their beliefs require. Are you willing to go to mass every Sunday? Are you willing to give 7% or 10% of your income to th church? Are you willing to do all those little things that Christians are required to do? Because those are happening ALL THE TIME--every moment of our lives is a test of our devotion to our chosen philosophies/religions. When it comes to lifestyles, philosophies of life, etc., catastraphism is a broken method of testing devotion. Most don't break with the church with a sudden snap--most break from it a long, long time before they actually leave it, gradually and over a period of years. It's always funny to see how atheists like myself can understand religion batter than theists.... Dear Dinwar, That's an interesting point. But, it relies a little too much on denominational conformity--the real test of a Christian should be if he lives his life with love for his fellow-men, not how often he attend church, no? In that case, how many people do you think count as True Christians? Cpl Ferro

14th May 2012, 05:06 PM	#35
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,840	Brothers and sisters, let us open the good book to the Revelation of St John, chapter 3, verses 14 to 16 and read what Jesus himself has to say: 14. "To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God’s creation. 15. I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16. So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. I don't know about "True Christians", but I thought it's worth pointing out that Jebus himself sets a pretty high standard in Revelation. The whole idea of being a moderate Christian is definitely not what the author of Revelation saw as the right way to be a Christian, and really it's what Jesus threatens a whole church for.