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Tags Costa Rica incidents , environmental activists , paul watson , protest incidents

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Old 18th May 2012, 01:41 AM   #361
Wildy
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Originally Posted by Kevin_Lowe View Post
Why do you think people don't have just as much of a problem with whaling when Icelanders and Norwegians do it?
I'm asking Furcifer to clarify because it seems that he's of the opinion that only Japan are doing this commercially whereas everyone else is doing this small scale.

Quote:
I've got just as much of a problem whoever is doing it.
Which does seem to be the more logically consistent position to take.

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This seems a weird topic to harp on.
Probably because it's discussing a viewpoint that you don't hold.
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Old 18th May 2012, 01:58 AM   #362
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
I'm asking Furcifer to clarify because it seems that he's of the opinion that only Japan are doing this commercially whereas everyone else is doing this small scale.
Indigenous Australians in Northern Queensland are allowed to kill dugongs and sea turtles. What do you feel about this?
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Old 18th May 2012, 02:15 AM   #363
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
A wonderfully naive sentiment, but sometimes the laws don't change just because we don't like them, sometimes you've got to smash up an offshore or two. If you're lucky, sometimes it takes an all out civil war.
Laws DO change just because we don't like them... as long as we dislike them enough. The problems come when somebody wants them changed and doesn't carry the necessary social momentum. In which case you just keep plugging away at it - or accept that you're not going to get your way on this one.
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Old 18th May 2012, 03:31 AM   #364
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
Laws DO change just because we don't like them... as long as we dislike them enough. The problems come when somebody wants them changed and doesn't carry the necessary social momentum. In which case you just keep plugging away at it - or accept that you're not going to get your way on this one.
So, something like causing a commotion to bring some media attention, getting a TV show, making sure the world knows about your cause, that sort of thing? Good to know you approve. Why didn't you say so earlier?
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Old 18th May 2012, 03:41 AM   #365
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My own perception of this is that there are several indiginous peoples who have an exemption that allows them to retain an aspect of their culture, and they're openly doing some small scale whaling, using indiginous tools, as an ongoing living history reenactment. They're being honest about it being a cultural and living history thing. What the japanese are doing is pretending that there's some pressing critical reason they need to know the average body weight of a minke whale to the ninth decimal place, and thus calling weighing out the whale steaks 'research', while clearly doing the whole thing because whale steak is expensive and therefore profitable.
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Old 18th May 2012, 03:44 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
So, something like causing a commotion to bring some media attention, getting a TV show, making sure the world knows about your cause, that sort of thing? Good to know you approve. Why didn't you say so earlier?
Only really works if said TV show doesn't turn people against your cause in droves. So yes a well done publicity campaign with a TV show could probably do a lot of good. A bunch of maritime bellends ramming things in a speedboat, not so much.
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:23 AM   #367
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
So the Icelanders and Norwegians aren't undertaking commercial hunts?

Which is why I've said the only difference is scale.

So the Japanese can't hunt whales in a sustainable manner?
No they aren't.

And the difference in scale is almost the definition of commercial fishing, farming, air travel etc. It's the capacity that allows you to sell your product that defines it and not becuase you sell it or trade it for denim jeans.

Yes they can, and they do. They have traditional hunts along coastal waters carried out by villagers that have been going on for centuries. It's the fleet of commercial whaling vessels using international waters that isn't sustainable.
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:34 AM   #368
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
It is my understanding that the Allies were killing people to stop them from taking control of land; so no hypocrisy.

It is my understanding that the existence and extent of the Holocaust (if that's what you're referring to) was not generally known until close to the end of the war.
No I was referring to war in general. There are plenty examples of people breaking laws to stop people from breaking laws so I think it's a moot point.
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Old 18th May 2012, 05:28 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Indigenous Australians in Northern Queensland are allowed to kill dugongs and sea turtles. What do you feel about this?
Well to start, I didn't actually know that they did that so I'm really only responding based on what I've just read. I don't really see a problem with it as long as it's sustainable, and given that both the Green Sea Turtle and the Dugong are threatened species I would support the Indigenous population choosing to scale back on the numbers taken or stopping the hunt whether temporary or permanently as a few tribes chose to do last year at least to allow the species to recover for a bit.

Having said that I don't think that it's up to us to force them to stop because they are permitted to do so under Native Title.

Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
No they aren't.
So even though Norway caught 468 minke whales last year they aren't commercial, but Japan's capture of 445 minke whales is?

Or is it still a commercial activity simply because Japan has caught more whales in the past compared to Norway?

Quote:
And the difference in scale is almost the definition of commercial fishing, farming, air travel etc. It's the capacity that allows you to sell your product that defines it and not becuase you sell it or trade it for denim jeans.
So what criteria are you using to determine whether something is commercial or not?

Quote:
Yes they can, and they do. They have traditional hunts along coastal waters carried out by villagers that have been going on for centuries.
So as long as they keep to their EEZ it's okay then?

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It's the fleet of commercial whaling vessels using international waters that isn't sustainable.
Evidence?
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Old 18th May 2012, 06:13 AM   #370
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Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
So, something like causing a commotion to bring some media attention, getting a TV show, making sure the world knows about your cause, that sort of thing? Good to know you approve. Why didn't you say so earlier?
They were down there protecting whales LONG before the camera's arrived.
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Old 18th May 2012, 06:49 AM   #371
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
So even though Norway caught 468 minke whales last year they aren't commercial, but Japan's capture of 445 minke whales is?

Or is it still a commercial activity simply because Japan has caught more whales in the past compared to Norway?


So what criteria are you using to determine whether something is commercial or not?

So as long as they keep to their EEZ it's okay then?

Evidence?
Sorry for the formatting, I can't find the square brackets to close quotes on my keypad.

Yes, if you're a commercial fisherman and you catch 1 fish you're still a commercial fisherman. It has nothing to do with how many you catch but how you catch it. Are you not understanding what's meant by capacity within the context of the discussion?

And again, the Japanese are raping international waters it's my understanding the Norwegians aren't.

Commercialism is defined by the equipement and the capacity that equipement has to catch fish. It's a very universal concept in ag.

I'm not sure what EEZ is, but the Japanese should be able to operate any vessels they like within their borders and without interference from activists like the SS.

Evidence? The bloody boat is evidence Japan's whaling operation within their borders isn't sustainable. But what I'm really talking about every country using the same methods as the Japanese, that isn't sustainable. Just do the math.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:09 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
You did, albeit in weaselly language.
I'm sorry that you didn't like the way I said it.

Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Such foolish inconsistencies are the hobgoblins of small minds. Labeling others hypocrites absolves you from moral introspection. Anyway, those nasty civil rights protestors broke laws while proposing new ones. They clearly had no respect for the government.
Those nasty civil rights protesters broke laws they considered unjust, in order to bring attention to those laws and have them changed. The Sea Shepherds do not want to change any laws; they want Japan prosecuted (or something) under what they claim are existing laws, whilst avoiding being prosecuted themselves for the laws they break.

Originally Posted by Cain View Post
We should probably take a poll of the unblinded-by-history people here. (And of course there were reformers who thought slavery should be tolerated but favored stricter enforcement for "Masters" who sadistically beat their men, people who argued Civil Unions are a useful alternative to the sacred institution of "marriage," and those who didn't mind Hitler so long as kept to more traditional borders).
It would be interesting. However I would suggest a different thread.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:16 AM   #373
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
No I was referring to war in general. There are plenty examples of people breaking laws to stop people from breaking laws so I think it's a moot point.
War in general is not necessarily illegal; and no matter how many examples there are of people breaking laws to stop people from breaking laws, it remains self-inconsistent and in my opinion eligible for derision whenever it happens.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:20 AM   #374
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Originally Posted by Seismosaurus View Post
Laws DO change just because we don't like them... as long as we dislike them enough. The problems come when somebody wants them changed and doesn't carry the necessary social momentum. In which case you just keep plugging away at it - or accept that you're not going to get your way on this one.
And how often historically has that come without some sort of civil disobendience?
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:42 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
War in general is not necessarily illegal; and no matter how many examples there are of people breaking laws to stop people from breaking laws, it remains self-inconsistent and in my opinion eligible for derision whenever it happens.
Isn't this just blind idealism though? Historically what changes have come about without some sort of "illegal" activity? That runs the gambit from unlawful assembly to World wars.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:58 AM   #376
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"Changes" is nonspecific. I'm talking about the very specific case of breaking laws to stop other people from breaking laws.

ETA: When I watch Sea Shepherds do things like ram a ship into a fishing structure in the middle of the ocean that people are walking on, see to me what I see is road rage. I see a person tailgating another car, attempting to sideswipe it, force it off the road and/or beat the other driver because the guy broke a traffic law a few miles back and there were no cops around to see. The justification is that the other driver is a "menace" and "something needs to be done"; but the act of pursuing and "bringing justice" is just as much a threat to life and limb.
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:15 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
Isn't this just blind idealism though? Historically what changes have come about without some sort of "illegal" activity? That runs the gambit from unlawful assembly to World wars.
The Australian Native Title Act following Mabo vs Queensland, and The Wik Decision and Native Title Amendment Act, probably the biggest legal changes in Australia since the ending of the White Australia Policy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Mabo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabo_v_...and_%28No_1%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabo_v_...and_%28No_2%29
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...ct/nta1993147/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wik_Peoples_v_Queensland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_...dment_Act_1998
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:26 AM   #378
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
Yes, if you're a commercial fisherman and you catch 1 fish you're still a commercial fisherman.
Except when you say they aren't.

I am interested in knowing what you would consider Hvalur hf given that they commercially hunt whales and export to Japan since you've declared that they are not commercial, but the Japanese fleet, which are officially a research fleet, are.

Quote:
It has nothing to do with how many you catch but how you catch it. Are you not understanding what's meant by capacity within the context of the discussion?
It's not so much what's meant by capacity, but what you consider the line to be regarding commercial/non-commercial. From what you've said so far:

CountryCommercial statusMode of capture (IWC def)
JapanCommercialResearch
NorwayNon-commercialObjection
Iceland Non-commercialObjection
IndonesiaNon-commercialAboriginal

While I sort of understand Indonesia's status, I don't understand what delineates Norway and Iceland, countries that hunt under objection to the commission, and Japan which hunts under the nominal designation of "research".

Quote:
And again, the Japanese are raping international waters it's my understanding the Norwegians aren't.
So Japan isn't allowed issue research permits that allow scientific whaling?
What do you believe should happen to the whales after they are killed?

Quote:
Commercialism is defined by the equipement and the capacity that equipement has to catch fish. It's a very universal concept in ag.
Care to prove a source?

Quote:
I'm not sure what EEZ is, but the Japanese should be able to operate any vessels they like within their borders and without interference from activists like the SS.
EEZ. But you've more or less described what an EEZ is in this comment.

Quote:
Evidence? The bloody boat is evidence Japan's whaling operation within their borders isn't sustainable. But what I'm really talking about every country using the same methods as the Japanese, that isn't sustainable. Just do the math.
That's some mighty fine conjecture you've got there. Any chance for some actual evidence?
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:34 AM   #379
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I have been on the fence on this one for a while. The more I think about it, the more I learn about whales and the potential for higher cognitive function, the less I feel they should be hunted at all.
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:39 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
The Australian Native Title Act following Mabo vs Queensland, and The Wik Decision and Native Title Amendment Act, probably the biggest legal changes in Australia since the ending of the White Australia Policy.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Mabo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabo_v_...and_%28No_1%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mabo_v_...and_%28No_2%29
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/c...ct/nta1993147/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wik_Peoples_v_Queensland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_...dment_Act_1998
Sounds to me like your boy Mabo was living on Crown Land. He was at the very least claiming ownership and transfering title of Crown Land, which here in Canada would be considered fraud. He was breaking the law until it was changed so Mabo is a big fat hypocrite right?
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:56 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Except when you say they aren't.

I am interested in knowing what you would consider Hvalur hf given that they commercially hunt whales and export to Japan since you've declared that they are not commercial, but the Japanese fleet, which are officially a research fleet, are.

While I sort of understand Indonesia's status, I don't understand what delineates Norway and Iceland, countries that hunt under objection to the commission, and Japan which hunts under the nominal designation of "research".

So Japan isn't allowed issue research permits that allow scientific whaling?
What do you believe should happen to the whales after they are killed?

Care to prove a source?

That's some mighty fine conjecture you've got there. Any chance for some actual evidence?
Maybe Norway is commercially fishing, I'm not familiar with the entire operation. If they're using commercial boats and commercial fishermen even inside their borders it's
commercial.

The whales are protected becuase they were hunted almost to extinction. The burden of proof is on you to produce Japan's method for calculating their quotas and see if it includes all of the countries in the world taking an equal share or not.
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:58 AM   #382
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Has anyone heard anything about the extradition hearing? I thought it was supposed to be today...but I've checked google news for "Paul Watson" and there are no new articles.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:41 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
Maybe Norway is commercially fishing, I'm not familiar with the entire operation. If they're using commercial boats and commercial fishermen even inside their borders it's commercial.
So to update my table:

CountryCommercial statusMode of capture (IWC def)
JapanCommercialResearch
NorwayCommercialObjection
IcelandCommercialObjection
IndonesiaNon-commercialAboriginal

So that changes the list quite a bit now. So "commercial boats" seems to be one of the factors that separates "commercial" from "non-commercial".

Apart from that what other technological aspects make up the divide between commercial and non-commercial whaling?

Quote:
The whales are protected becuase they were hunted almost to extinction. The burden of proof is on you to produce Japan's method for calculating their quotas and see if it includes all of the countries in the world taking an equal share or not.
Why is the burden of proof on me to show this? I don't remember making a claim that would require me to do such a thing.

Then again, what would be a fair share of whales for places like Kyrgyzstan and Liechtenstein?

Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
Has anyone heard anything about the extradition hearing? I thought it was supposed to be today...but I've checked google news for "Paul Watson" and there are no new articles.
Released on bail pending a hearing. But for some reason I get the feeling that Germany might get €250,000 richer.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:48 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
Released on bail pending a hearing. But for some reason I get the feeling that Germany might get €250,000 richer.
Maybe - but, ouch; international warrants are a real albatross around the old neck. Still, I suppose he could seek asylum in Iceland like Bobby Fischer did.


...oh wait, he can't seek asylum in Iceland; he's persona non grata after they expelled him for dickery. Well shoot.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:57 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm sorry that you didn't like the way I said it.
Yeah, for some reason I take slight offense when calling a group a lynch mob when it's never lynched. Some kind of truth hang-up, I guess.

Quote:
Those nasty civil rights protesters broke laws they considered unjust, in order to bring attention to those laws and have them changed. The Sea Shepherds do not want to change any laws; they want Japan prosecuted (or something) under what they claim are existing laws, whilst avoiding being prosecuted themselves for the laws they break.
This is foolish even by the standards set out in your earlier posts.

Quote:
ETA: When I watch Sea Shepherds do things like ram a ship into a fishing structure in the middle of the ocean that people are walking on, see to me what I see is road rage. I see a person tailgating another car, attempting to sideswipe it, force it off the road and/or beat the other driver because the guy broke a traffic law a few miles back and there were no cops around to see. The justification is that the other driver is a "menace" and "something needs to be done"; but the act of pursuing and "bringing justice" is just as much a threat to life and limb.
Uh huh. The crews ramming the ships (who have never killed anyone) are just as much a threat to life and limb as the "fishermen" shooting explosive harpoons. And war is peace, ignorance is strength, slavery is freedom.
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Old 18th May 2012, 11:19 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Yeah, for some reason I take slight offense when calling a group a lynch mob when it's never lynched. Some kind of truth hang-up, I guess.
You know what, I'm with you - I for one am also sick of all these witch hunts that don't involve witches, wild goose chases that have nothing to do with game birds, tar babies that feature neither tar nor any babies, and straw men that aren't even physical objects let alone constructed of dried grass.


Originally Posted by Cain View Post
This is foolish even by the standards set out in your earlier posts.
I strive to be nonstandard.

Originally Posted by Cain View Post
Uh huh. The crews ramming the ships (who have never killed anyone) are just as much a threat to life and limb as the "fishermen" shooting explosive harpoons. And war is peace, ignorance is strength, slavery is freedom.
The crews ramming ships have certainly injured some folks (such as the fishermen on the structure in the video posted earlier). Trying to remember the last time a Japanese whaler accidentally or intentionally explodey-harpooned some passerby's arm or something and it's just not coming to me (although to be honest I do not regularly keep track of such incidents so I just may not have heard of them).
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Old 18th May 2012, 11:24 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Maybe - but, ouch; international warrants are a real albatross around the old neck. Still, I suppose he could seek asylum in Iceland like Bobby Fischer did.


...oh wait, he can't seek asylum in Iceland; he's persona non grata after they expelled him for dickery. Well shoot.

He could sail to Christmas Island and claims to be a refugee. Julia not send back anyone who does that.
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Old 18th May 2012, 11:40 AM   #388
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
So to update my table:

CountryCommercial statusMode of capture (IWC def)
JapanCommercialResearch
NorwayCommercialObjection
IcelandCommercialObjection
IndonesiaNon-commercialAboriginal

So that changes the list quite a bit now. So "commercial boats" seems to be one of the factors that separates "commercial" from "non-commercial".

Apart from that what other technological aspects make up the divide between commercial and non-commercial whaling?



Why is the burden of proof on me to show this? I don't remember making a claim that would require me to do such a thing.

Then again, what would be a fair share of whales for places like Kyrgyzstan and Liechtenstein?



Released on bail pending a hearing. But for some reason I get the feeling that Germany might get €250,000 richer.
If Iceland and Norway are using commercial boats like the Japanese I'd like you to prove it. I've never seen any.

All the other points have been covered.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:33 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
If some primitives want to hunt whales in a traditionally sustainable manner I don't have a problem with it.
I've had hundreds of these "primitives" as you offensively refer to them in my undergraduate and graduate university classes. They are no different from you and me other than being looked upon as an inferior class of humans by racists like you.

Your ignorance of indigenous hunts in Alaska is glaring, and is more fully mis-stated by Andrew Wiggin:


Quote:
My own perception of this is that there are several indiginous peoples who have an exemption that allows them to retain an aspect of their culture, and they're openly doing some small scale whaling, using indiginous tools, as an ongoing living history reenactment. They're being honest about it being a cultural and living history thing. What the japanese are doing is pretending that there's some pressing critical reason they need to know the average body weight of a minke whale to the ninth decimal place, and thus calling weighing out the whale steaks 'research', while clearly doing the whole thing because whale steak is expensive and therefore profitable
First of all, there was no exemption made for Alaska natives. The history is that the IWC placed a complete moratorium on whale hunting, and the Alaska natives told them to **** off, forming their own Eskimo Whaling Commission, and killed them anyway. There is a long history of the natives doing this, stretching back to a case in 1961 when a native villager was cited for shooting a duck in contravention of the migratory waterfowl treaty. Immediatly afterwards, 138 other Barrow natives shot ducks and brought them in to the fish and game office, daring them to arrest them.

Edited by LashL:  Edited breach of Rule 10.


The former chair of this Eskimo Whaling Commission, George Ahmaogak, was just sentenced to 30 years in prison for various financial crimes. You have people here who are going to do whatever they please, the law be damned, and what they have forced the IWC to do is either imprison whole villages or let them do what they want.

The irony is that your heroes are lawbreakers claiming to protect the whales, yet you side with the natives who were lawbreakers that were killing them.

The reason why the natives use the skin boats for first strike is that the whales run from the sound of an outboard motor, and because of the flexibility of the skin boats. They don't pound the waves like an inflexible boat so they are far stealthier. They are choosing the most EFFECTIVE hunting technology, not some stupid living history thing. God what paternalistic crap! They shoot caribou in the head while crossing rivers, bash swans on the head while they are moulting, etc. - which again has to do with efficiency and not an idiotic "living history" meme. Reading this stuff is revolting.

What this proves is how people make up total crap - and its pretty racist, paternalistic crap too - out of complete ignorance in order to support their irrational positions.

Last edited by LashL; 18th May 2012 at 08:50 PM.
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:07 PM   #390
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Really? A lot of Indonesian whalers taking undergrad classes in Nome is there?
"Primitives" are universal to any race. Ted Nugent is an example of a "white" primitive. I find my own views on hunting and wearing furs primitive. Even organic farming is primitive.
It really only becomes pejorative when we're talking about people that do something unsustainable out of principle.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:34 PM   #391
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
If Iceland and Norway are using commercial boats like the Japanese I'd like you to prove it. I've never seen any.
I need you to define what a "commercial boat" is then because right now you're being contradictory or using a definition of "commercial boat" that nobody else is using.

Quote:
All the other points have been covered.
No. They haven't.

But then you don't seem to like doing things like giving evidence or providing definitions. Shall I just assume that your point of view is Japanese whaling = commercial while non-Japanese whaling = non-commercial no matter the circumstances.
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Old 18th May 2012, 11:02 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
I need you to define what a "commercial boat" is then because right now you're being contradictory or using a definition of "commercial boat" that nobody else is using.



No. They haven't.

But then you don't seem to like doing things like giving evidence or providing definitions. Shall I just assume that your point of view is Japanese whaling = commercial while non-Japanese whaling = non-commercial no matter the circumstances.
Nonsense. As best as I can tell you're comparing the Japanese "research" boats to Indonesian recreational boats. Stop playing games, let's see some pictures in a side by side comparison.

lmfao dodge already noted

Nissan Maru=commercial whaling vessel compare them to anything else being used in whaling around the world using images. cite the length and compare the horsepower

buh bye
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Old 19th May 2012, 01:08 AM   #393
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The only thing I hate more than eco-terrorism is passive aggressive wimpy eco-terrorism. I'd have a lot more respect for Sea Shepherd if they'd man up and just start bombing boats.
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Old 19th May 2012, 02:30 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
Really? A lot of Indonesian whalers taking undergrad classes in Nome is there?
"Primitives" are universal to any race. Ted Nugent is an example of a "white" primitive. I find my own views on hunting and wearing furs primitive. Even organic farming is primitive.
It really only becomes pejorative when we're talking about people that do something unsustainable out of principle.
So in other words you'd have absolutely no objection to Ted Nugent going out and hunting whales in a "sustainable manner".

Is Japan's limit of 1000 minke whales a year unsustainable? What makes you think so?
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Old 19th May 2012, 02:47 AM   #395
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The more I learn about the sea shepherd ***clowns the more I lean in favour of whaling.
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Old 19th May 2012, 03:19 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
Nonsense. As best as I can tell you're comparing the Japanese "research" boats to Indonesian recreational boats.
Because when I'm talking about Norway or Iceland I'm actually talking about Indonesia?

Quote:
Stop playing games, let's see some pictures in a side by side comparison.
I'm guessing you're referring to Indonesia here, and you can see how they do it on the second link in this post.

Or you can just look at the table below.

Quote:
lmfao dodge already noted
Because asking someone who has been rather shifty in this discussion for clarification is a dodge.

Quote:
Nissan Maru=commercial whaling vessel compare them to anything else being used in whaling around the world using images. cite the length and compare the horsepower.
Oh I see, so I'm to compare other ships to the Nisshin Maru and then somehow determine which ships are commercial and which aren't based on some set of standards that exist in your head.

But since I'm a little bored I'll play your stupid little game and present it in a nice table for you:

ShipPictureCountryUseTonnage (GT)Length (m)Propulsion (kw)Commercial Status according to Furcifer
Nisshin MaruICRJapanMain Research Vessel/Factory Ship7659129.585383Commercial
Yūshin Maru No. 2ShipspottingJapanResearch fleet harpoon ship105969.613900Non-commercial
Hvalur 9 RE99ShipspottingIcelandWhaling57351.151398Non-commercial
Hvalur 8ShipspottingIcelandWhaling48148n/aNon-commercial
SkarbakkShipspottingNorwayWhaling15621.523n/aNon-commercial
BrandsholmbøenShipspottingNorwayWhaling78.1720.13n/aNon-commercial
SofieShipspottingNorwayWhaling13421.2n/aNon-commercial
???Daily MailIndonesiaWhalingvery small~4However fast 16 men can row/whale dependentNon commercial
Bob BarkerWikipediaTogoDisrupting Japanese Whaling (Sea Shepherd)78852.22206.5Not current whaling vessel

Of course I will need you to tell me if the last column is correct, but I will admit that this method of defining "commercial" as "the largest ship involved in whaling" is pretty interesting. I could probably use that logic to "prove" that the only commercial cattle producer is Anna Creek station and that because of that the only commercial cattle company is S Kidman and Co Ltd.
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Old 19th May 2012, 03:21 AM   #397
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Is Japan's limit of 1000 minke whales a year unsustainable? What makes you think so?
He can't answer that until someone has calculated whether it'll stop Kyrgyzstan from getting their fair share of whales.
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Old 19th May 2012, 04:54 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Furcifer View Post
Sounds to me like your boy Mabo was living on Crown Land. He was at the very least claiming ownership and transfering title of Crown Land, which here in Canada would be considered fraud. He was breaking the law until it was changed so Mabo is a big fat hypocrite right?


I forgot how low my expectations of you should be. I apologise, I won't make that mistake again.
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Old 19th May 2012, 05:27 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggin View Post
So, something like causing a commotion to bring some media attention, getting a TV show, making sure the world knows about your cause, that sort of thing? Good to know you approve. Why didn't you say so earlier?
Oh, I completely approve of that. I just don't approve of lying, endangering lives, and trying to intimidate the people following the law into not doing what they're doing.
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Old 19th May 2012, 05:34 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by soylent View Post
The more I learn about the sea shepherd ***clowns the more I lean in favour of whaling.
This is actually the commonest reaction I hear to their TV show. If you go to the show's page on IMDB the message board section is FULL of people laughing at them and cheering on the whalers, many of whom say that the show has made them into supporters of whaling.

I wonder if the board just attracts the sort of person who likes to be contrary, or if the overall impact of the show is to actually harm their own cause.
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