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Tags Costa Rica incidents , environmental activists , paul watson , protest incidents

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Old 27th February 2013, 04:54 AM   #921
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Al that will take years

Meanwhile, the unbridled and unnecessary slaughter will continue.

Someone has to act on behalf of the whales otherwise the political efforts would amount to nought anyway.
Why are whales special?
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Old 27th February 2013, 04:56 AM   #922
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Why are whales special?
They take the short pod to school?
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Old 27th February 2013, 05:14 AM   #923
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And apparently the 9th US Federal circuit court of appeals has declared the Sea Shepherds as pirates and has recused the previous judge off of the case as he was showing bias in favor of the Sea Shepherds (as shown by this ruling where several points of law were ignored in the case that was being appealed).

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...ge-4309993.php
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Old 27th February 2013, 05:57 AM   #924
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Why are whales special?
Intelligence.
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Old 27th February 2013, 06:09 AM   #925
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Intelligence.
Intelligence varies from whale species to whale species. The minke whale, for example, has a rather small brain.

Pigs are also very intelligent, but I've not seen anyone suggest we don't eat them for that reason.

Last edited by Ryokan; 27th February 2013 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 27th February 2013, 07:20 AM   #926
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Intelligence.
So its morally ok to eat stupid animals? Poor cows, they'll never win.
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Old 27th February 2013, 07:30 AM   #927
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
So its morally ok to eat stupid animals? Poor cows, they'll never win.
It might put some truthers at risk as well...
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Old 27th February 2013, 07:38 AM   #928
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Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
It might put some truthers at risk as well...
Well quite.

Anyway, wasnt the problem just one page ago, that whales were being hunted in a sanctuary? Now its because they are intelligent? Which is it?
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Old 27th February 2013, 07:40 AM   #929
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I'd say it's that people are trying to come up with reasons to force their values upon others.
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Old 27th February 2013, 07:51 AM   #930
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Well, this thread has certainly taken a turn for the yellow peril...

Did it get turned back to 1930 while I wasn't looking?
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:14 AM   #931
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
Well quite.

Anyway, wasnt the problem just one page ago, that whales were being hunted in a sanctuary? Now its because they are intelligent? Which is it?
Two different things, sort of.

1) Why the outrage, period?

2) Why the outrage in the Southern Ocean?


Some people see the family dynamic in a pod of whales and see something that humans should strive to achieve. I'm one of them.
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:24 AM   #932
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Originally Posted by Damien Evans View Post
Well, this thread has certainly taken a turn for the yellow peril...

Did it get turned back to 1930 while I wasn't looking?
Don't you know? Everything you need to know about the Japanese you can learn from WW2.
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:27 AM   #933
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Intelligence.
But not smart enough to realize they're being killed and do something about it?
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:28 AM   #934
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Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
It might put some truthers at risk as well...

Oh, noes, the low score on the IQ test is soylent green!
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:33 AM   #935
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Two different things, sort of.

1) Why the outrage, period?

2) Why the outrage in the Southern Ocean?


Some people see the family dynamic in a pod of whales and see something that humans should strive to achieve. I'm one of them.
Then do it.

You are anthropomorphizing the whales.
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:34 AM   #936
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
But not smart enough to realize they're being killed and do something about it?
???
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:36 AM   #937
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Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
Don't you know? Everything you need to know about the Japanese you can learn from WW2.
Whales is good, Japs are evil. Simples.

We don't kill whales because they're intelligent but a few dead Japanese is OK.
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:40 AM   #938
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
???

Ability to recognize danger is a sign of intelligence.
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:41 AM   #939
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
They take the short pod to school?
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:42 AM   #940
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
They take the short pod to school?
Nom'ed.
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Old 27th February 2013, 08:53 AM   #941
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Ability to recognize danger is a sign of intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsig
But not smart enough to realize they're being killed and do something about it?

I repeat:

???
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:07 AM   #942
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
I'd say it's that people are trying to come up with reasons to force their values upon others.
Maybe they identify with Paul "the Captain" Watson, heroically fighting the enemy and forcing others to comply with his throbbing, big ego.
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:08 AM   #943
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Some people see the family dynamic in a pod of whales and see something that humans should strive to achieve. I'm one of them.
Cool story, bro.

Me? I see the family dynamic in a pairing of crows as something that humans should try to achieve*, but I don't get all butthurt when people use varmint rifles or dynamite to cut down on the crow population.













*Long-term spousal partnerships, an open marriage with a certain amount of suprise sex with outsiders going on, care for the young, making juveniles contributing members of the group, and kicking out young adults to fend for themselves in a large murder.
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:14 AM   #944
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
I repeat:

???
Through all the centuries of whaling there's never been any sign that they recognized the danger the whale boats were or that they tried to do anything about it like ram the ships or hide.
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:24 AM   #945
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Through all the centuries of whaling there's never been any sign that they recognized the danger the whale boats were or that they tried to do anything about it like ram the ships or hide.
I dunno man. You been on the 9/11 subforum too often? That has to be the single most absurd thing I've read from the pro-whaling side. Ever. Either you actually expect whales to be able to fight back, or you're just trolling. I can't honestly tell.

Did you ever stop to think that maybe they ARE hiding, by going to the most inhospitable place on the planet? (no, I'm not serious) Where is it you'd like them to hide, exactly? Perhaps they swim up the Mississipi, and fan out over the US? Maybe the big ones swim under the ice of Antarctica (breathing be damned) and pop up on the other side many miles away?

I wonder if they'd check with their food source before embarking on their little game of hide-and-seek.

OOH! I know. Transparent Aluminum. There be whales, here captain!
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:30 AM   #946
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Through all the centuries of whaling there's never been any sign that they recognized the danger the whale boats were or that they tried to do anything about it like ram the ships or hide.
Yes there has been, see the USS Essex v. a Sperm Whale
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Old 27th February 2013, 09:45 AM   #947
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let's just wipe them all out so the bloody hippies will stop whining about it...

seriously, I care more about not hearing their tripe than the dumb animals.

kill all the whales, smoke the meat, keep africa fed for a few months.

win/win















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Old 27th February 2013, 10:13 AM   #948
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsig
Why are whales special?
Intelligence.
Much of the time whales are just reverse lemmings
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:16 AM   #949
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Oh, noes, the low score on the IQ test is soylent green!
yup. First they came for the whales, and we did nothing. Then they came for the cows, and again we did nothing. Then they came for the truthers...
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:18 AM   #950
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Two different things, sort of.

1) Why the outrage, period?

2) Why the outrage in the Southern Ocean?


Some people see the family dynamic in a pod of whales and see something that humans should strive to achieve. I'm one of them.
But it doesnt prevent you from eating chicken does it? This is a serious question. Do you eat chicken? Chickens have a pretty tight family dynamic dont they? Rooster protects the hens, hens having little chicks following them around, teaching them all about how to hunt for the juiciest bugs and worms. Do you see the family dynamic in that?
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:22 AM   #951
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Not at the level of sophistication that whales do.
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:28 AM   #952
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Considering the way this thread seems to have turned I'm going to offer this:

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Old 27th February 2013, 10:35 AM   #953
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Originally Posted by Sam.I.Am View Post
And apparently the 9th US Federal circuit court of appeals has declared the Sea Shepherds as pirates and has recused the previous judge off of the case as he was showing bias in favor of the Sea Shepherds (as shown by this ruling where several points of law were ignored in the case that was being appealed).

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/artic...ge-4309993.php
That's all very nice for them, but this seems like another example of America declaring themselves to be the World Police.

The 9th US Federal circuit court of appeals (or any US court for that matter) has no jurisdiction to make legal pronouncements about anything that happens outside their own borders and territories.
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:37 AM   #954
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I think you will find if it pertains to US citizens they do.
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:37 AM   #955
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Not at the level of sophistication that whales do.
So.............. the criteria now for not killing animals for food is that they must demonstrate a sophisticated family dynamic?

In summary, your happy to eat anything that doesnt really care about its children and demonstrates a poor level of intelligence.

Please never visit Manchester, ok?
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:38 AM   #956
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Originally Posted by philkensebben View Post
So.............. the criteria now for not killing animals for food is that they must demonstrate a sophisticated family dynamic?

In summary, your happy to eat anything that doesnt really care about its children and demonstrates a poor level of intelligence.

Please never visit Manchester, ok
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BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 27th February 2013, 10:39 AM   #957
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Not at the level of sophistication that whales do.
Now I'm curious:
  • How is 'sophistication' defined, in the context of familial relationships?
  • Actually, let's back up--how are 'familial relationships' defined in the context of this claim?
  • Having once defined the terms above, how is 'sophistication' measured?
  • How are 'levels of sophistication' established?
  • How do we know what minimum level of sophistication is desirable, or necessary?
  • What specific level of sophistication are whales at?
  • How do we know that current examples of whale families are necessary to model whatever level of sophistication we believe are desirable in human families?
  • If whales didn't exist, or were never properly studied in their familial relationships, would we have any other way of identifying, modeling, and working towards a desirable level of sophistication in human familial relationships?

tl;dr version: Really? We should leave whales alone because we need them to teach us how to be better human families?
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:41 AM   #958
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
tl;dr version: Really? We should leave whales alone because we need them to teach us how to be better human families?
As I said earlier in the thread, most anti-whaling arguments usually boils down to "whales are magical, dude".
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:47 AM   #959
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Fine. They're dumb. I'm sold.

Slaughter the whole lot of 'em until they're extinct, or damn close to it, (because humans have a solid history of knowing when to stop) and then blame it on something besides humans. Watch the food chain crumble and clap! Yay! No more whale watches = less diesel fuel spent. Win/Win!
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Old 27th February 2013, 10:51 AM   #960
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No, they're not all dumb. Whales are pretty fascinating and majestic creatures. I'm lucky enough to live in a place where you can see them now and then, practically just outside my window. Mostly killer whales, but they're stunning.

Some of them are pretty intelligent, while others are not. But I'm not sure that's a good argument for not eating them. As I said earlier, pigs are rather clever as well.

Your last arguments there are arguments for making sure the hunting is sustainable, not for ceasing all together.
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