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Old 17th May 2012, 11:13 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by twinstead View Post
This thread doesn't deserve to exist, much less to be kept on topic
This sub-forum doesn't deserve to exist, in my honest opinion.
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:42 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by Macgyver1968 View Post
Sweet! Now there are 3!

7 believes mysterious orbs hit the towers...

Tracy thinks they were holograms..

and Jammy doesn't believe anything hit the towers.

Who do we believe?
I don't have to believe it without knowing it's a fact. There were four news stations that aired the orb.
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:45 AM   #203
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
I don't have to believe it without knowing it's a fact. There were four news stations that aired the orb.
Now we have Orbers.
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:50 AM   #204
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
I don't have to believe it without knowing it's a fact. There were four news stations that aired the orb.
I don't believe it and I don't know it's a fact either.

Do you need any special equipment or abilities to be able to see the orb?
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:52 AM   #205
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Originally Posted by swright777 View Post
That's pretty weird. At about 11:00:24 in the gif you posted (according to the time stamp on the video) a plane comes into the picture from the left and hits the building.

It's pretty clear. What are you suggesting with this? The plane in the video proves there was no plane?

ETA: "This video shows no plane hitting a building. And when I say NO PLANE, I mean ONLY ONE."
Are you saying that Cloud missed a real boeing or the fake blob that was added to his video before the evening news?
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:54 AM   #206
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Originally Posted by Jack by the hedge View Post
I don't believe it and I don't know it's a fact either.

Do you need any special equipment or abilities to be able to see the orb?
Just my eyes and wnbc who acknowledged that it got in between the towers before the T2 exploded.
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:55 AM   #207
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Just my eyes and wnbc who acknowledged that it got in between the towers before the T2 exploded.
Of course. You're just the most convincing guy ever!!

anywhoo, why do you show videos of planes as evidence there were no planes?
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Old 18th May 2012, 04:57 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Just my eyes and wnbc who acknowledged that it got in between the towers before the T2 exploded.
How many fingers am I holding up?
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Old 18th May 2012, 05:02 AM   #209
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
How many fingers am I holding up?
Are you British or American? If British you have two fingers up, if American only one.
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Old 18th May 2012, 06:55 AM   #210
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Originally Posted by sheeplesnshills View Post
Are you British or American? If British you have two fingers up, if American only one.
I'm guessing it ain't a thumbs up.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:05 AM   #211
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
I'm fairly sure she expected the building to bend over and fling the plane back to Boston.


Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:07 AM   #212
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First of all, the blob in Clifton's altered video IS NOT SEEN flying south of where it appeared out of thin air. I took a picture of a distant plane, and compared to the blob it reveals reality. The black blob was added by whomever Cloud turned his footage over to and supports that no real plane was involved in T2.



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Old 18th May 2012, 07:07 AM   #213
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
Are you saying that Cloud missed a real boeing or the fake blob that was added to his video before the evening news?
He missed the real Boeing that is shown in that video. The same one that is also shown in many other videos. You know, the one that hit the tower.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:11 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
First of all, the blob in Clifton's altered video IS NOT SEEN flying south of where it appeared out of thin air. I took a picture of a distant plane, and compared to the blob it reveals reality. The black blob was added by whomever Cloud turned his footage over to and supports that no real plane was involved in T2.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...loudblob-1.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...tplanezoom.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...FSoupcom-1.gif
So someone added a black blob to the copy of the video he turned in? Then just get him to show the original, sans black blob.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:38 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by leftysergeant View Post
This is entirely consistant with an aircraft impact. They were in NYC, surrounded by tall, noise-baffling buildings. They were surrounded by very large trucks with very loud engines, some of them running full-blast to run pumps. They would not have heard the plane coming in time to look up.

Even if they did know something was coming, they would not all have been in a position to see it. A few feet to either side of a structure would be enough to block one's line of sight to an aircraft even as big as a 767.



No.

Dear Lefty,

Thank you for providing your rationalization on why a seasoned fire command officer standing in front of the South Tower (West St, bet. Liberty and Albany) could neither see nor hear (in time) a claimed Boeing 767 jetliner, <1000ft above his head @ 500+mph.

Your rationalization is not very convincing imho.

In addition, a rather common feature of the event is that few describe hearing it at all, not just 'in time' as you rationalize.

Here is an example:

Firefighter Brian Becker
. You never heard the second plane?
A. We never heard the second plane.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110019.PDF pg 10

Granted, Firefighter Becker, like Battalian Chief King, was inside the North Tower. But, the point here is that jetliners are rather loud; nay, they are deafening, especially when they are so low and so close and so fast.

Yet, a very common feature of the claimed Boeing 767 designated Flight 175 was that, by and large, it was not heard.

Come to think of it, almost all the videos of the event are either silent or only have a loud noise of the explosion, not of a jetliner. The sound of a jetliner is both distinctive and common place. That sound was absent on 9/11 for both elements of the common storyline. Posters here who participated in the Dick Oliver threads will recall that the Dick Oliver camera did not record the sound of a jetliner, only an explosion, plus the subway underneath.

Let me quickly add here that there were those who tried desparately to claim the subway sound was the sound of a jetliner. I'm sure many will adhere to a "belief" the sound heard on the Dick Oliver soundtrack is a jetliner, but it wasn't. The sound continued after the explosion and the discernible sound of subway brakes could also be heard when one would expect to hear them as the train was slowing to a stop.

Thank you for your post, Lefty.

Last edited by jammonius; 18th May 2012 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 18th May 2012, 07:44 AM   #216
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
First of all, the blob in Clifton's altered video IS NOT SEEN flying south of where it appeared out of thin air. I took a picture of a distant plane, and compared to the blob it reveals reality. The black blob was added by whomever Cloud turned his footage over to and supports that no real plane was involved in T2.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...loudblob-1.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...tplanezoom.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...FSoupcom-1.gif
Did you use the same kind of camera? On the same setting? Was the weather the same as it was in that day? Were you at the same angle? Same distance?...

Do you know why the answers to these questions are important?
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:10 AM   #217
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Jammy, Please tell me you are joking. I really can't believe someone can be this stupid.

You did read the entire interview didn't you? Or did you just cherry-pick the parts you wanted to quote?
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:11 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dear Lefty,

Thank you for providing your rationalization on why a seasoned fire command officer standing in front of the South Tower (West St, bet. Liberty and Albany) could neither see nor hear (in time) a claimed Boeing 767 jetliner, <1000ft above his head @ 500+mph.

.
Hmmm, jamms, you know where he was, but don't know that one of your witnesses was in the North Tower, probably in a stairwell when the South Tower got hit?

Hmmm.

Your claim, your burden, champ. Where was Battalian Chief King when the South Tower got hit?

I see that he admits that King was in the North Tower.

The claim now seems to be that he should have heard the plane flying into the South Tower.

Because there were NO other sounds in the North Tower on 9/11.
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Last edited by 16.5; 18th May 2012 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:32 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by 7forever View Post
First of all, the blob in Clifton's altered video IS NOT SEEN flying south of where it appeared out of thin air. I took a picture of a distant plane, and compared to the blob it reveals reality. The black blob was added by whomever Cloud turned his footage over to and supports that no real plane was involved in T2.

http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...loudblob-1.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...tplanezoom.jpg
http://i889.photobucket.com/albums/a...FSoupcom-1.gif
Okay, seriously. How many times are you going to show videos of planes impacting buildings to prove that planes didn't impact buildings? Is there something about this belief that everyone who shares is has abysmal organizational skills? It's very simple really. Put one folder on your desk top to show the fake planes and another to show the real planes. It will help to keep you from making this mistake in the future.
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Old 18th May 2012, 08:58 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by fess View Post
Jammy, Please tell me you are joking. I really can't believe someone can be this stupid.

You did read the entire interview didn't you? Or did you just cherry-pick the parts you wanted to quote?
I'll answer these questions on behalf of Jammies.

Did you read the entire interview?

Yes, yes I did. It's just the rest of the interview wasn't going to support my skewed belief so I didn't include it.

Did you just cherry-pick parts?

Yes, that's how this work, isn't it?
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:04 AM   #221
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dear Lefty,

Thank you for providing your rationalization on why a seasoned fire command officer standing in front of the South Tower (West St, bet. Liberty and Albany) could neither see nor hear (in time) a claimed Boeing 767 jetliner, <1000ft above his head @ 500+mph.

Your rationalization is not very convincing imho.

In addition, a rather common feature of the event is that few describe hearing it at all, not just 'in time' as you rationalize.

Here is an example:

Firefighter Brian Becker
. You never heard the second plane?
A. We never heard the second plane.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/package...IC/9110019.PDF pg 10

Granted, Firefighter Becker, like Battalian Chief King, was inside the North Tower. But, the point here is that jetliners are rather loud; nay, they are deafening, especially when they are so low and so close and so fast.

Yet, a very common feature of the claimed Boeing 767 designated Flight 175 was that, by and large, it was not heard.

Come to think of it, almost all the videos of the event are either silent or only have a loud noise of the explosion, not of a jetliner. The sound of a jetliner is both distinctive and common place. That sound was absent on 9/11 for both elements of the common storyline. Posters here who participated in the Dick Oliver threads will recall that the Dick Oliver camera did not record the sound of a jetliner, only an explosion, plus the subway underneath.

Let me quickly add here that there were those who tried desparately to claim the subway sound was the sound of a jetliner. I'm sure many will adhere to a "belief" the sound heard on the Dick Oliver soundtrack is a jetliner, but it wasn't. The sound continued after the explosion and the discernible sound of subway brakes could also be heard when one would expect to hear them as the train was slowing to a stop.

Thank you for your post, Lefty.
Why are you looking for people who didn't see the plane crash when? If you want evidence of a plane crash wouldn't it make more sense to find people who saw the plane crash?
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:19 AM   #222
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Why haven't debunkers posted up any witness quotes?

Dear Posters and Lurkers,

I grasp that it can be comforting to think someone you disagree with doesn't know anything and cannot get anything right. I understand, as well, that criticism may also provide comfort.

But really, people, even if you think I cannot ever properly quote the relevant part of a witness statement, what is it that prevents so many of you from posting up your own witness quotes? Are you afraid I might accuse you of cherrypicking?

This is an EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE thread. Look, you can even cherrypick as far as I'm concerned, just post up your witnesses, please.

Witnesses say what they say. There is no need to embellish. People also say things that are contradictory; especially when they are under stress or otherwise agitated. Some people say one thing and mean another. I say this to say that just because someone says something different from one part of conversation or statement to another doesn't mean it's improper to quote that part that you are relying on. Overall context matters and interpretation can either be fair or unfair, valid or invalid. By and large, none of us here can really sort this out with certainty. We all do the best we can, presumably.

I think a more effective way of making a claim that I am cherrypicking would be to quote the part of the witness' statement that you think provides a better context. That is what LashL did, but few others have done the same. The best reply to a post of mine that offends you is a post that refutes my post or position. I claim there are NO PLANE witnesses that are qualitatively better than the PLANE SPOTTER witnesses.

I have posted up 7 NO PLANE witnesses. Some have disputed the content, the context, the interpretation and so on. Fine. Let's have at it.

But, I do think it would be helpful to the debunker cause if some of you would post up PLANE SPOTTER claims. That way, the lurkers can be assured that their adherence in the common storyline remains justified. I remain ready to analyze PLANE SPOTTER witnesses; when some are posted, that is. And, it is not likely that I will find it necessary to make the same kind of comments that some of you find it necessary to make about my analysis of witness statements.

Refutation can be accomplished without invective. It's probably more effective, too.

Blessings
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:23 AM   #223
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dear Posters and Lurkers,

I grasp that it can be comforting to think someone you disagree with doesn't know anything and cannot get anything right. I understand, as well, that criticism may also provide comfort.

But really, people, even if you think I cannot ever properly quote the relevant part of a witness statement, what is it that prevents so many of you from posting up your own witness quotes? Are you afraid I might accuse you of cherrypicking?

This is an EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE thread. Look, you can even cherrypick as far as I'm concerned, just post up your witnesses, please.

Witnesses say what they say. There is no need to embellish. People also say things that are contradictory; especially when they are under stress or otherwise agitated. Some people say one thing and mean another. I say this to say that just because someone says something different from one part of conversation or statement to another doesn't mean it's improper to quote that part that you are relying on. Overall context matters and interpretation can either be fair or unfair, valid or invalid. By and large, none of us here can really sort this out with certainty. We all do the best we can, presumably.

I think a more effective way of making a claim that I am cherrypicking would be to quote the part of the witness' statement that you think provides a better context. That is what LashL did, but few others have done the same. The best reply to a post of mine that offends you is a post that refutes my post or position. I claim there are NO PLANE witnesses that are qualitatively better than the PLANE SPOTTER witnesses.

I have posted up 7 NO PLANE witnesses. Some have disputed the content, the context, the interpretation and so on. Fine. Let's have at it.

But, I do think it would be helpful to the debunker cause if some of you would post up PLANE SPOTTER claims. That way, the lurkers can be assured that their adherence in the common storyline remains justified. I remain ready to analyze PLANE SPOTTER witnesses; when some are posted, that is. And, it is not likely that I will find it necessary to make the same kind of comments that some of you find it necessary to make about my analysis of witness statements.

Refutation can be accomplished without invective. It's probably more effective, too.

Blessings
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Last edited by Craig4; 18th May 2012 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:25 AM   #224
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It hardly seems worth it, given that jammonius will simply make up excuses to deny its existence, but http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lie...untsofthenycai has a few accounts that people may find informative.

Dave
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:28 AM   #225
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Dave,

With all due respect, can you please post up specific statements and quotes that you think are valid PLANE SPOTTER claims?


Thanks
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:31 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dave,

With all due respect, can you please post up specific statements and quotes that you think are valid PLANE SPOTTER claims?


Thanks
I bet he won't. That would imply you have a point worthy of refuting. There's really no reason to do that.
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:32 AM   #227
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dave,

With all due respect, can you please post up specific statements and quotes that you think are valid PLANE SPOTTER claims?


Thanks
Mr. Randi, can I have a million dollars please?

Dave
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:37 AM   #228
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dear Posters and Lurkers,

I grasp that it can be comforting to think someone you disagree with doesn't know anything and cannot get anything right. I understand, as well, that criticism may also provide comfort.

But really, people, even if you think I cannot ever properly quote the relevant part of a witness statement, what is it that prevents so many of you from posting up your own witness quotes? Are you afraid I might accuse you of cherrypicking?

This is an EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE thread. Look, you can even cherrypick as far as I'm concerned, just post up your witnesses, please.

Witnesses say what they say. There is no need to embellish. People also say things that are contradictory; especially when they are under stress or otherwise agitated. Some people say one thing and mean another. I say this to say that just because someone says something different from one part of conversation or statement to another doesn't mean it's improper to quote that part that you are relying on. Overall context matters and interpretation can either be fair or unfair, valid or invalid. By and large, none of us here can really sort this out with certainty. We all do the best we can, presumably.

I think a more effective way of making a claim that I am cherrypicking would be to quote the part of the witness' statement that you think provides a better context. That is what LashL did, but few others have done the same. The best reply to a post of mine that offends you is a post that refutes my post or position. I claim there are NO PLANE witnesses that are qualitatively better than the PLANE SPOTTER witnesses.

I have posted up 7 NO PLANE witnesses. Some have disputed the content, the context, the interpretation and so on. Fine. Let's have at it.

But, I do think it would be helpful to the debunker cause if some of you would post up PLANE SPOTTER claims. That way, the lurkers can be assured that their adherence in the common storyline remains justified. I remain ready to analyze PLANE SPOTTER witnesses; when some are posted, that is. And, it is not likely that I will find it necessary to make the same kind of comments that some of you find it necessary to make about my analysis of witness statements.

Refutation can be accomplished without invective. It's probably more effective, too.

Blessings
Why? I demonstrated conclusively that King WAS IN THE NORTH TOWER, and most likely in the stairwells when the plane hit.

It was absolutely clear from his statement that this was the fact, yet you intentionally omitted it.

yet you still claim he was a No Planer witness, which means you are intentionally deceiving people, No Planer.
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:45 AM   #229
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Mr. Randi, can I have a million dollars please?

Dave
The sun will rise in the east.
Water will be wet.
Ice will form in antartica.

No million.
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:55 AM   #230
plague311
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Dear Posters and Lurkers,

I grasp that it can be comforting to think someone you disagree with doesn't know anything and cannot get anything right. I understand, as well, that criticism may also provide comfort.

But really, people, even if you think I cannot ever properly quote the relevant part of a witness statement, what is it that prevents so many of you from posting up your own witness quotes? Are you afraid I might accuse you of cherrypicking?

This is an EYEWITNESS CHALLENGE thread. Look, you can even cherrypick as far as I'm concerned, just post up your witnesses, please.

Witnesses say what they say. There is no need to embellish. People also say things that are contradictory; especially when they are under stress or otherwise agitated. Some people say one thing and mean another. I say this to say that just because someone says something different from one part of conversation or statement to another doesn't mean it's improper to quote that part that you are relying on. Overall context matters and interpretation can either be fair or unfair, valid or invalid. By and large, none of us here can really sort this out with certainty. We all do the best we can, presumably.

I think a more effective way of making a claim that I am cherrypicking would be to quote the part of the witness' statement that you think provides a better context. That is what LashL did, but few others have done the same. The best reply to a post of mine that offends you is a post that refutes my post or position. I claim there are NO PLANE witnesses that are qualitatively better than the PLANE SPOTTER witnesses.

I have posted up 7 NO PLANE witnesses. Some have disputed the content, the context, the interpretation and so on. Fine. Let's have at it.

But, I do think it would be helpful to the debunker cause if some of you would post up PLANE SPOTTER claims. That way, the lurkers can be assured that their adherence in the common storyline remains justified. I remain ready to analyze PLANE SPOTTER witnesses; when some are posted, that is. And, it is not likely that I will find it necessary to make the same kind of comments that some of you find it necessary to make about my analysis of witness statements.

Refutation can be accomplished without invective. It's probably more effective, too.

Blessings
Don't you get it? Debunkers don't WANT to cherry pick. We all get it, that it's ok with you to take peoples words out of context, and try to use them to your advantage. I feel I speak for most people here when I say, there is no desire to be apart of that game. You are admitting to being a liar, you know you are cherry picking and it's fine with you.

Then fine, keep doing it. However, don't expect respect or for people to play in your little game. You want to prove there were no planes, find a way, but I've stated it many times before, don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. Don't cherry pick, mine quote, and think that I'll join that game. Disgrace yourself, don't try to pull others down to your level. People here are better than that.
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Old 18th May 2012, 09:57 AM   #231
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Jammi, I have to admit that I'm one of your biggest fans. You're pretty much the only one of our Truther friends - and the only No-planer - I haven't put on IGNORE. I hope that puts me in a special place where you won't avoid my questions.

Now it's pretty clear that no one here cares about your arguments. No one cares about how things could have been dustified, whatever that is. No one cares about your arguments that umpteen zillion videos were faked or that witnesses were lying or being misquoted. No one cares that you think there are witnesses who should have seen something but didn't. No one cares. And there aren't people marching in the streets. And no politicians are talking about this. And no one is asking them about this, even when John McCain had his town meeting campaign. No one cares Jammi, not here, not there, not anywhere...

So I gotta ask you, who are you hoping will read this? In the past, you said something about all those readers who are really swayed by the power and logic of your evidence but sit by silently while others laugh at you.

You know...there are no lurkers. If you keep track of the number of posts and views and the forum members who post anti-Truther stuff on other posts but not here (like me), you'll see there is no vast army of lurkers swayed by your magic.

But I don't mean to be sarcastic. I just mean that if you want to sway me, stop posting this stuff about faked videos and witnesses who saw nothing. Here's a list of some of the things I want to see. I promise you, if I see any of them, I will donate a month's salary to Judy Wood. And God knows...she must need the money these days.

So here's what I want to see
1) the dustifcation machine...Hell...I might even go for a clear explanation of what dustification really is.
2) an interview or confession of one of the staff who faked the 9/11 attacks - and I mean the part about the planes crashing.
3) firefighters or other First Responders talking about how all the steel turned to dust - or something like that.

'Cause without any of these, it's all horse urine to me. It's just a kid's story about that Lex Luthor fellow and how he found the lost Kryptonite. Give me something I can chew on and I'll give Judy my money.
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Last edited by Scott Sommers; 18th May 2012 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:06 AM   #232
jammonius
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
Why? I demonstrated conclusively that King WAS IN THE NORTH TOWER, and most likely in the stairwells when the plane hit.

It was absolutely clear from his statement that this was the fact, yet you intentionally omitted it.

yet you still claim he was a No Planer witness, which means you are intentionally deceiving people, No Planer.

Greetings 16.5,

One of your apparently unstated assumptions appears to be that no one can hear anything on the outside if they are in the Stairwell of the North Tower. If that is your assumption, then there are a couple of things that might be worthy of considering.

Firstly, Battalion Chief King can be presumed not to have shared in your assumption as his statement clearly implies that had there been a Boeing 767 in the vicinity of 1000ft up from his vicinity (albeit inside of the North Tower) and if the jetliner was zooming along at 500+mph, as is postulated, then, in that event, he, King, would have heard it.

King, who might well be worthy of the title FIRST NO PLANER, is clear in his statement. I won't re-quote it or re-cite it here as I was the one who quoted it and who cited it in the first place. Suffice to say King based his skepticism of the jetliner claim on the fact that he did not hear one.

I think it might have been Lefty who offered up rationalization on why a Boeing 767@<1000ft@500+mph couldn't be clearly heard; and, it is possible some debunkers might be convinced by that.

As for me, I think the lack of the sound of a screaming jetliner is very strong proof of the NO PLANE claim. I am here speaking for me; others can disagree and can contend a jetliner @<1000ft@500+mph was too quiet to have been heard inside of the North Tower. Others can also claim that the lack of any known record of anyone at all being treated for damage to their ears as a result of not one but two jetliners screaming around Lower Manhattan on 9/11 is also perfectly understandable. As for me, I think the lack of sound of jetliners is more consistent with the claim there were none.

In other words, I agree with Battalian Chief King, aka 1ST NO PLANER.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:16 AM   #233
16.5
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Greetings 16.5,

One of your apparently unstated assumptions appears to be that no one can hear anything on the outside if they are in the Stairwell of the North Tower. If that is your assumption, then there are a couple of things that might be worthy of considering.

Firstly, Battalion Chief King can be presumed not to have shared in your assumption as his statement clearly implies that had there been a Boeing 767 in the vicinity of 1000ft up from his vicinity (albeit inside of the North Tower) and if the jetliner was zooming along at 500+mph, as is postulated, then, in that event, he, King, would have heard it.

King, who might well be worthy of the title FIRST NO PLANER, is clear in his statement. I won't re-quote it or re-cite it here as I was the one who quoted it and who cited it in the first place. Suffice to say King based his skepticism of the jetliner claim on the fact that he did not hear one.

I think it might have been Lefty who offered up rationalization on why a Boeing 767@<1000ft@500+mph couldn't be clearly heard; and, it is possible some debunkers might be convinced by that.

As for me, I think the lack of the sound of a screaming jetliner is very strong proof of the NO PLANE claim. I am here speaking for me; others can disagree and can contend a jetliner @<1000ft@500+mph was too quiet to have been heard inside of the North Tower. Others can also claim that the lack of any known record of anyone at all being treated for damage to their ears as a result of not one but two jetliners screaming around Lower Manhattan on 9/11 is also perfectly understandable. As for me, I think the lack of sound of jetliners is more consistent with the claim there were none.

In other words, I agree with Battalian Chief King, aka 1ST NO PLANER.
CLEARLY IMPLIES? Did you hear that silent jammy fans who lurk? King was injured in a stairwell in the North Tower and didn't know that the South Tower was even damaged, let alone hit by a plane.

And jamms claims that he is the first No Planer witness.

Although the hilarious comment that a subsonic aircraft should cause hearing damage is pure gold!
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:17 AM   #234
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
........I see that he admits that King was in the North Tower.

The claim now seems to be that he should have heard the plane flying into the South Tower.
Because there were NO other sounds in the North Tower on 9/11.
Further to this King is supposed to be able to distiguish that it is the sound of a jetliner as opposed to a smaller plane or helicopter from inside the stairwell of the south tower with hundreds of people trying to get out, and dozens of police and firemen moving up. I suppose he expects these people were all doing so in silence so that King could hear better.

Last edited by jaydeehess; 18th May 2012 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:22 AM   #235
Craig4
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Further to this King is supposed to be able to distiguish that it is the sound of a jetliner as opposed to a smaller plane or helicopter from inside the stairwell of the south tower with hundreds of people trying to get out, and dozens of police and firemen moving up. I suppose he expects these people were all doing so in silence so that King could hear better.
This really has nothing to do with evidence.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:22 AM   #236
jammonius
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
Don't you get it? Debunkers don't WANT to cherry pick. We all get it, that it's ok with you to take peoples words out of context, and try to use them to your advantage. I feel I speak for most people here when I say, there is no desire to be apart of that game. You are admitting to being a liar, you know you are cherry picking and it's fine with you.

Then fine, keep doing it. However, don't expect respect or for people to play in your little game. You want to prove there were no planes, find a way, but I've stated it many times before, don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining. Don't cherry pick, mine quote, and think that I'll join that game. Disgrace yourself, don't try to pull others down to your level. People here are better than that.

More invective and still no PLANE SPOTTER witnesses. That is very rich indeed. I have taken a look at some plane spotting claims. If you want to find good examples of cherry picking, then plane spotter sites are for you. What is worse, imho, is that plane spotter claims care little for the quality of statements, let alone viability of the source. Several aren't even witness statements. Rather, they are add-on comments made in newspaper articles by the writers of such articles. Or, they are second and third hand accounts, of the "my friend was there and my friend said..." variety.

Hey lurkers, consider this possibility:

The lack of any quotes at all, cherry picked or otherwise, of PLANE SPOTTER claims might mean there are none or next to none.

In which case, all this posturing and complaining about my quotes are nothing more than an artful dodge.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:27 AM   #237
jammonius
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Originally Posted by 16.5 View Post
CLEARLY IMPLIES? Did you hear that silent jammy fans who lurk? King was injured in a stairwell in the North Tower and didn't know that the South Tower was even damaged, let alone hit by a plane.

And jamms claims that he is the first No Planer witness.

Although the hilarious comment that a subsonic aircraft should cause hearing damage is pure gold!

Hey Lurkers,

There is nothing in the above that offers up any rational refutation, of either Battalion Chief King or of any other witness claim. What is worse, there are not even any quotes from witnesses who said they did hear a jetliner.

It is one thing to continue to harp on my witness quotes; it is quite another to fail to offer up any plane spotter eye or ear witness accounts.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:27 AM   #238
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Ok...I'm going for my prediction for the one million dollars. This thread will go over 10 pages before the weekend is out....and will still be meaningless.
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:30 AM   #239
plague311
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Originally Posted by jammonius View Post
Greetings 16.5,

One of your apparently unstated assumptions appears to be that no one can hear anything on the outside if they are in the Stairwell of the North Tower. If that is your assumption, then there are a couple of things that might be worthy of considering.

Firstly, Battalion Chief King can be presumed not to have shared in your assumption as his statement clearly implies that had there been a Boeing 767 in the vicinity of 1000ft up from his vicinity (albeit inside of the North Tower) and if the jetliner was zooming along at 500+mph, as is postulated, then, in that event, he, King, would have heard it.

King, who might well be worthy of the title FIRST NO PLANER, is clear in his statement. I won't re-quote it or re-cite it here as I was the one who quoted it and who cited it in the first place. Suffice to say King based his skepticism of the jetliner claim on the fact that he did not hear one.

I think it might have been Lefty who offered up rationalization on why a Boeing 767@<1000ft@500+mph couldn't be clearly heard; and, it is possible some debunkers might be convinced by that.

As for me, I think the lack of the sound of a screaming jetliner is very strong proof of the NO PLANE claim. I am here speaking for me; others can disagree and can contend a jetliner @<1000ft@500+mph was too quiet to have been heard inside of the North Tower. Others can also claim that the lack of any known record of anyone at all being treated for damage to their ears as a result of not one but two jetliners screaming around Lower Manhattan on 9/11 is also perfectly understandable. As for me, I think the lack of sound of jetliners is more consistent with the claim there were none.

In other words, I agree with Battalian Chief King, aka 1ST NO PLANER.
If the plane moves faster than sound, and then that sound is covered up by a 767 flying into a building, exploding, and throwing debris everywhere, then why would they have heard it in a different building?
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Old 18th May 2012, 10:35 AM   #240
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Look Jammy, if you want to declare victory to the "lurkers" than just do it. It's been called this whole time, that you're going to do this "I win" type of outcome. The thing you seem to be thinking is your changing the minds of dozens of people that are reading this thread and are on the ledge.

There aren't, there just isn't anyone being swayed. Everyone that posts here has made up their mind, and no amount of "no planer" quotes are going to change that.

You're doing this for yourself, no one else cares except those who are laughing. I'm sorry if you thought otherwise.
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