What is death like? - Page 4

Darat · 30th May 2012, 03:20 AM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

The great majority of people who were pronounced clinically dead and later resuscitated have reported no near death experience. The majority of people, believers and non believers, report nothing at all. A dreamless sleep no different than before you were born and were able to form memories.

A slight aside - does this ever actually happen? I know people's hearts and/or respiration can fail but is that really considered "being dead"?

stokes234 · 30th May 2012, 03:53 AM

It's not "like" anything, because it isn't anything. It's like asking me my thoughts on the content of a perfect vacuum. There's nothing to describe, it's simply an absence of life. The philosophical part of my brain isn't scared of being dead for this reason, but the evolutionarily programmed part is still saying I need to get lots of stuff done first, like sleep with lots of attractive girls, and then maybe have some kids and teach them how to hunt and forge basic tools.

Elypsis44 · 30th May 2012, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I entirely agree, I take this view for different reasons, the result is the same.

Interesting. Can you share those reasons?

Ocelot · 30th May 2012, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by stokes234

...teach them how to hunt and forge basic tools.

Are you one of these Italian gangsters then?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...m-1979705.html

dafydd · 30th May 2012, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

A slight aside - does this ever actually happen? I know people's hearts and/or respiration can fail but is that really considered "being dead"?

Clinically dead does not mean that the brain has shut down.

Rasmus · 30th May 2012, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Clinically dead does not mean that the brain has shut down.

Yes, it actually means "not dead at all":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

dafydd · 30th May 2012, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by Rasmus

Yes, it actually means "not dead at all":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death

I have always found the phrase ''near death experience'' amusing. You are either dead or you're not. If you experience something, then you are alive.

Croydon Bob · 30th May 2012, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by nakedjuggler

AFAIK death is a 7 foot skeleton with a fondness for curry.

I refer the honourable gentleman to post #38 of this thread.

Marcus · 30th May 2012, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I'm more interested in whether people have reconciled themselves with what it means to them and their psychology.

Also focussing on our inability to imagine the state of being dead, while knowing that it is our destiny.

I think you will find that atheists in general are reconciled, while many religious people simply can't accept death, they must imagine they will live forever in some form.

sackett · 30th May 2012, 08:16 AM

Edge, why do you walk with our back to traffic?

Marcus · 30th May 2012, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Darat

A slight aside - does this ever actually happen? I know people's hearts and/or respiration can fail but is that really considered "being dead"?

"Clinical death" is when circulation ceases, but this is no longer the same as death, since some patients can be resuscitated. "Death" is now considered to be when brain activity ceases.

dafydd · 30th May 2012, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

"Death" is now considered to be when brain activity ceases.

In some cases this has been known to happen when the subject is very much alive.

I Ratant · 30th May 2012, 08:56 AM

Originally Posted by BoogieWoogieWookie

I concur with the surgery and anesthesia comments. I have had more than thirty major operations (ones that require more than local anesthesia). Without going back and looking at my records, I believe that more than twenty of those required general anesthesia.

The longest one required about twelve hours. This is a very long time to "be under", I was told. What I remember of it is the anesthesiologist asking if I was OK. I replied something to the effect of being quite used to it by now, but still a little scared because of the length of time it would take. He then told me that he had all kinds of good drugs to take care of that and I wouldn't be scared of anything in just a few seconds.

Then, as if by magic, I was lying in a different room with people sitting and standing around my bed. I was quite groggy and very uncomfortable with the breathing tube down my throat and tied down such that one arm is all that I could move.

There was no sensation or memory of anything between. It was exactly the same with the other times I was put to sleep. I suppose this is what it is like to "not exist".

.
That's my experience.. the guy said "I'll be your anesthesologist".. I was gone, and woke up in a different room with "no sensation of anything between". But conscious of the void.

I Ratant · 30th May 2012, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Not existing "forever", it doesn't compute.

.
Nothing that is "you" exists past death. Your components do, and become components of other things as they disintegrate. But those daisies your corpse is pushing up aren't "you".
You are gone.
Forever.

I Ratant · 30th May 2012, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by Ocelot

In twenty years time I will either be alive or dead. I find it difficult to imagine what being alive will be like at that age. I have no difficulty knowing whether a state of non-existence will feel like anything at all

.
Talked to an active 87 year old at the Mall yesterday.
I wonder about the next 14 years...

I Ratant · 30th May 2012, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Instantaneous?

.
With any luck at all.
The long disintegration of the body and the mind due to the numerous diseases, and mental failings are awful.

Soapy Sam · 30th May 2012, 09:09 AM

We must distinguish between what death feels like and what dying feels like.
Dying may be extremely unpleasant.

Death probably feels a lot like your sofa feels to your television.

dafydd · 30th May 2012, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
With any luck at all.
The long disintegration of the body and the mind due to the numerous diseases, and mental failings are awful.

A good friend of mine dropped down stone dead two weeks ago. It was hard to lose him but rather that than see him suffer with some awful disease. Where is his ''forever'' now punshhh? He wasn't famous so when the last person who knew him dies, he will be really gone, forever.

NoahFence · 30th May 2012, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

Pittsburgh.

You mean legions of ignorant Steelers fans thinking "Spygate" actually helped the Pats beat them at home twice in the AFC Championship Game?

cos · 30th May 2012, 10:22 AM

This quote from Wittgenstein seems relevant:

Originally Posted by Ludvig Wittgenstein

Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.

I've never really grasped the idea of "never waking up again." I realize that it seems like the most likely result but I can't get a handle on it. The metaphor of gaps in consciousness while still alive doesn't really cover it, because you are always looking at those from across the gap, so to speak. How can experience of the present moment be like anything at all if at some later point there will be absolutely no memory or experience?

Not that the alternative makes any sense either; the lack of a functioning brain seems to rule out experience of any kind.

I Ratant · 30th May 2012, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

A good friend of mine dropped down stone dead two weeks ago. It was hard to lose him but rather that than see him suffer with some awful disease. Where is his ''forever'' now punshhh? He wasn't famous so when the last person who knew him dies, he will be really gone, forever.

.
"The evil men do lives after them
the good is oft interred with their bones"
Willy Shaky.

Croc411 · 30th May 2012, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by punshhh

But if existence is endless, this would happen surely.

IF our time dimension is infinite and IF complex structures can form out of nothing due to random fluctuations, then maybe yes. But those are BIG IF's IMO.

I would rather put my money on the universe being appropriately large or that there is a multiverse, these could accomplish the same.

Croc411 · 30th May 2012, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

We must distinguish between what death feels like and what dying feels like.
Dying may be extremely unpleasant.

Yeah, and this might be an example where our sophisticated medical technology is not necessarily a good thing. It can delay the inevitable a lot.

Before my grandmother passed away a few years ago at age 92, she went through 2 full days of agony (at least her body showed the signs, I don't know how much consciousness was left in her).

They gave her painkillers of course, but I guess when multiple internal organs slowly cease working nothing short of general anesthesia really helps. And they won't do that.

I plan to dodge that when it's my turn.

marplots · 30th May 2012, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by Croc411

Yeah, and this might be an example where our sophisticated medical technology is not necessarily a good thing. It can delay the inevitable a lot.

Before my grandmother passed away a few years ago at age 92, she went through 2 full days of agony (at least her body showed the signs, I don't know how much consciousness was left in her).

They gave her painkillers of course, but I guess when multiple internal organs slowly cease working nothing short of general anesthesia really helps. And they won't do that.

I plan to dodge that when it's my turn.

It's hard to say. When the only thing left to eat are the moldy crusts of life's bread, I might give them a go.

Bill Thompson 75 · 30th May 2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by punshhh

In your mind what it is like to be dead?

Someone opens up your skull and takes your brain out.
They liquify your brain in a blender and put it back into your skull.
What you feel then is what it is like to be dead.

Lord Muck oGentry · 30th May 2012, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

It's like not being dead.

I expect you're right about that.

But what does your original question mean?

Are you asking What is it to be dead?? If so, you probably don't need to be told the answer. You already know how to use the word dead.
Or are you asking What is it for a living person to be dead?? No answer is possible: the question is nonsense.

Or are you asking a different question?

dafydd · 30th May 2012, 04:51 PM

Punshhh seems to have abandoned his own thread.

Lord Muck oGentry · 30th May 2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Punshhh seems to have abandoned his own thread.

Apologies to you, dafydd. My last post was addressed to Punshhh, not to you.

dafydd · 30th May 2012, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Muck oGentry

Apologies to you, dafydd. My last post was addressed to Punshhh, not to you.

No apology needed. I was just wondering where punshhh is and why he started this thread.

Brian-M · 30th May 2012, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Originally Posted by Marcus

"Death" is now considered to be when brain activity ceases.

In some cases this has been known to happen when the subject is very much alive.

There are many politicians who are living proof of this. Let's hope that one day a cure will be found.

punshhh · 30th May 2012, 11:53 PM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

Why? And how? Even assuming (incorrectly) that existence is endless?

I wouldn't have put incorrectly here, we are talking hypotheticals.

Quote:

What possible set of circumstances could possibly result in all the correct molecules forming together to exactly reproduce a specific brain complete with memories at time of death, along with a viable functional body?

I presumed it would be at the time of birth not death. You would be born just like you were born in your current life.

Quote:

I don't mean just because it's absurdly incredibly unlikely, or even because infinity doesn't necessarily mean that all possibilities eventuate, but how would it be physically possible for all the molecules to just assemble that way?

By being born into a reality. I disagree with what you say about infinity, if its possible it will occur infinite times.

Quote:

What kind of environment would allow this, other than a new body being born with identical genes and living an exactly identical life... and presumably dying again? But in that case you don't get to continue living. You still die at the same point, or at best die at a slightly later point in time (with your maximum possible life expectancy being the limit for this kind of life "extension")?

Ah looks like you considered being born. After your next life presumably you would be born again and again until you could somehow escape the wheel of rebirth. Sounds like Buddhism.

punshhh · 30th May 2012, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by stokes234

It's not "like" anything, because it isn't anything. It's like asking me my thoughts on the content of a perfect vacuum. There's nothing to describe, it's simply an absence of life. The philosophical part of my brain isn't scared of being dead for this reason, but the evolutionarily programmed part is still saying I need to get lots of stuff done first, like sleep with lots of attractive girls, and then maybe have some kids and teach them how to hunt and forge basic tools.

Wouldn't you still have regrets however philosophical your view?

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by Elypsis44

Interesting. Can you share those reasons?

I regard being alive as a great privilege, as such I treat it with reverence and gratitude in respect of what ever mechanism produced it.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:03 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

I think you will find that atheists in general are reconciled, while many religious people simply can't accept death, they must imagine they will live forever in some form.

Yes, but when you say reconciled is that just a resigned acceptance?

After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
Nothing that is "you" exists past death. Your components do, and become components of other things as they disintegrate. But those daisies your corpse is pushing up aren't "you".
You are gone.
Forever.

For yourself it is absolutely nothing, as though nothing ever existed. A quite chilled state I suppose.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
With any luck at all.
The long disintegration of the body and the mind due to the numerous diseases, and mental failings are awful.

I know this only too well, my father is struggling with it now. Hopefully it will end peacefully.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by Soapy Sam

We must distinguish between what death feels like and what dying feels like.
Dying may be extremely unpleasant.

Death probably feels a lot like your sofa feels to your television.

In that case why did existence even bother to exist, if its only to condemn the forms which fleetingly exist to an eternity of oblivion.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

A good friend of mine dropped down stone dead two weeks ago. It was hard to lose him but rather that than see him suffer with some awful disease. Where is his ''forever'' now punshhh? He wasn't famous so when the last person who knew him dies, he will be really gone, forever.

Is this sad?

I shed a tear when someone I know dies.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Bill Thompson 75

Someone opens up your skull and takes your brain out.
They liquify your brain in a blender and put it back into your skull.
What you feel then is what it is like to be dead.

Do you know how it feels Bill?

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Muck oGentry

But what does your original question mean?

Its about an issue which we will all have to face sooner or later, but about which very little is said.

Quote:

Are you asking What is it to be dead?? If so, you probably don't need to be told the answer. You already know how to use the word dead.
Or are you asking What is it for a living person to be dead?? No answer is possible: the question is nonsense.

Yes you have pointed out an important distinction here. But you say an answer has been given, I see no answer anywhere in the thread. Apart from what can be supposed from a scientific analysis of the experience of being alive.

Quote:

Or are you asking a different question?

It is a philosophical question and will lead to more questions and hopefully will hold a mirror up to ourselves.

30th May 2012, 03:20 AM	#121
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,770	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur The great majority of people who were pronounced clinically dead and later resuscitated have reported no near death experience. The majority of people, believers and non believers, report nothing at all. A dreamless sleep no different than before you were born and were able to form memories. A slight aside - does this ever actually happen? I know people's hearts and/or respiration can fail but is that really considered "being dead"?
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

30th May 2012, 03:53 AM	#122
stokes234 Master Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: UK Posts: 2,295	It's not "like" anything, because it isn't anything. It's like asking me my thoughts on the content of a perfect vacuum. There's nothing to describe, it's simply an absence of life. The philosophical part of my brain isn't scared of being dead for this reason, but the evolutionarily programmed part is still saying I need to get lots of stuff done first, like sleep with lots of attractive girls, and then maybe have some kids and teach them how to hunt and forge basic tools.
	__________________ "I offer the world my genius. All I ask in return is that the world cover my expenses." Hugo Rune

30th May 2012, 04:08 AM	#123
Elypsis44 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,412	Originally Posted by punshhh I entirely agree, I take this view for different reasons, the result is the same. Interesting. Can you share those reasons?
Elypsis44 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,412

30th May 2012, 04:33 AM	#124
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	Originally Posted by stokes234 ...teach them how to hunt and forge basic tools. Are you one of these Italian gangsters then? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...m-1979705.html
	__________________ EDL = English Disco Lovers

30th May 2012, 04:39 AM	#125
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,467	Originally Posted by Darat A slight aside - does this ever actually happen? I know people's hearts and/or respiration can fail but is that really considered "being dead"? Clinically dead does not mean that the brain has shut down.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

30th May 2012, 05:59 AM	#126
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	Originally Posted by dafydd Clinically dead does not mean that the brain has shut down. Yes, it actually means "not dead at all": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death
Rasmus Philosopher Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6,138	__________________ "Well, the religious community could not just make it up." - JetLeg

30th May 2012, 07:21 AM	#127
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,467	Originally Posted by Rasmus Yes, it actually means "not dead at all": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death I have always found the phrase ''near death experience'' amusing. You are either dead or you're not. If you experience something, then you are alive.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

30th May 2012, 07:32 AM	#128
Croydon Bob Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2012 Location: Croydon! Posts: 468	Originally Posted by nakedjuggler AFAIK death is a 7 foot skeleton with a fondness for curry. I refer the honourable gentleman to post #38 of this thread.

30th May 2012, 08:16 AM	#129
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by punshhh I'm more interested in whether people have reconciled themselves with what it means to them and their psychology. Also focussing on our inability to imagine the state of being dead, while knowing that it is our destiny. I think you will find that atheists in general are reconciled, while many religious people simply can't accept death, they must imagine they will live forever in some form.

30th May 2012, 08:16 AM	#130
sackett Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Detroit Posts: 3,613	A question for edge Edge, why do you walk with our back to traffic?
	__________________ Dyslexic and prond!

30th May 2012, 08:31 AM	#131
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by Darat A slight aside - does this ever actually happen? I know people's hearts and/or respiration can fail but is that really considered "being dead"? "Clinical death" is when circulation ceases, but this is no longer the same as death, since some patients can be resuscitated. "Death" is now considered to be when brain activity ceases.

30th May 2012, 08:37 AM	#132
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,467	Originally Posted by Marcus "Death" is now considered to be when brain activity ceases. In some cases this has been known to happen when the subject is very much alive.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

30th May 2012, 08:56 AM	#133
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by BoogieWoogieWookie I concur with the surgery and anesthesia comments. I have had more than thirty major operations (ones that require more than local anesthesia). Without going back and looking at my records, I believe that more than twenty of those required general anesthesia. The longest one required about twelve hours. This is a very long time to "be under", I was told. What I remember of it is the anesthesiologist asking if I was OK. I replied something to the effect of being quite used to it by now, but still a little scared because of the length of time it would take. He then told me that he had all kinds of good drugs to take care of that and I wouldn't be scared of anything in just a few seconds. Then, as if by magic, I was lying in a different room with people sitting and standing around my bed. I was quite groggy and very uncomfortable with the breathing tube down my throat and tied down such that one arm is all that I could move. There was no sensation or memory of anything between. It was exactly the same with the other times I was put to sleep. I suppose this is what it is like to "not exist". . That's my experience.. the guy said "I'll be your anesthesologist".. I was gone, and woke up in a different room with "no sensation of anything between". But conscious of the void.

30th May 2012, 08:59 AM	#134
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by punshhh Not existing "forever", it doesn't compute. . Nothing that is "you" exists past death. Your components do, and become components of other things as they disintegrate. But those daisies your corpse is pushing up aren't "you". You are gone. Forever.

30th May 2012, 09:01 AM	#135
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by Ocelot In twenty years time I will either be alive or dead. I find it difficult to imagine what being alive will be like at that age. I have no difficulty knowing whether a state of non-existence will feel like anything at all . Talked to an active 87 year old at the Mall yesterday. I wonder about the next 14 years...

30th May 2012, 09:03 AM	#136
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by punshhh Instantaneous? . With any luck at all. The long disintegration of the body and the mind due to the numerous diseases, and mental failings are awful.

30th May 2012, 09:09 AM	#137
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885	We must distinguish between what death feels like and what dying feels like. Dying may be extremely unpleasant. Death probably feels a lot like your sofa feels to your television.
Soapy Sam NLH Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 25,885

30th May 2012, 09:10 AM	#138
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,467	Originally Posted by I Ratant . With any luck at all. The long disintegration of the body and the mind due to the numerous diseases, and mental failings are awful. A good friend of mine dropped down stone dead two weeks ago. It was hard to lose him but rather that than see him suffer with some awful disease. Where is his ''forever'' now punshhh? He wasn't famous so when the last person who knew him dies, he will be really gone, forever.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

30th May 2012, 09:12 AM	#139
NoahFence Psycho Kitty Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Patriot Nation Posts: 9,320	Originally Posted by ANTPogo Pittsburgh. You mean legions of ignorant Steelers fans thinking "Spygate" actually helped the Pats beat them at home twice in the AFC Championship Game?
	__________________ Our truest life is when we are in our dreams awake. -Henry David Thoreau

30th May 2012, 10:22 AM	#140
cos Student Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 48	This quote from Wittgenstein seems relevant: Originally Posted by Ludvig Wittgenstein Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits. I've never really grasped the idea of "never waking up again." I realize that it seems like the most likely result but I can't get a handle on it. The metaphor of gaps in consciousness while still alive doesn't really cover it, because you are always looking at those from across the gap, so to speak. How can experience of the present moment be like anything at all if at some later point there will be absolutely no memory or experience? Not that the alternative makes any sense either; the lack of a functioning brain seems to rule out experience of any kind.
cos Student Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 48

30th May 2012, 11:41 AM	#141
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by dafydd A good friend of mine dropped down stone dead two weeks ago. It was hard to lose him but rather that than see him suffer with some awful disease. Where is his ''forever'' now punshhh? He wasn't famous so when the last person who knew him dies, he will be really gone, forever. . "The evil men do lives after them the good is oft interred with their bones" Willy Shaky.

30th May 2012, 12:06 PM	#142
Croc411 Scholar Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 95	Originally Posted by punshhh But if existence is endless, this would happen surely. IF our time dimension is infinite and IF complex structures can form out of nothing due to random fluctuations, then maybe yes. But those are BIG IF's IMO. I would rather put my money on the universe being appropriately large or that there is a multiverse, these could accomplish the same.
Croc411 Scholar Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 95

30th May 2012, 12:56 PM	#143
Croc411 Scholar Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 95	Originally Posted by Soapy Sam We must distinguish between what death feels like and what dying feels like. Dying may be extremely unpleasant. Yeah, and this might be an example where our sophisticated medical technology is not necessarily a good thing. It can delay the inevitable a lot. Before my grandmother passed away a few years ago at age 92, she went through 2 full days of agony (at least her body showed the signs, I don't know how much consciousness was left in her). They gave her painkillers of course, but I guess when multiple internal organs slowly cease working nothing short of general anesthesia really helps. And they won't do that. I plan to dodge that when it's my turn.
Croc411 Scholar Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 95

30th May 2012, 01:09 PM	#144
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,384	Originally Posted by Croc411 Yeah, and this might be an example where our sophisticated medical technology is not necessarily a good thing. It can delay the inevitable a lot. Before my grandmother passed away a few years ago at age 92, she went through 2 full days of agony (at least her body showed the signs, I don't know how much consciousness was left in her). They gave her painkillers of course, but I guess when multiple internal organs slowly cease working nothing short of general anesthesia really helps. And they won't do that. I plan to dodge that when it's my turn. It's hard to say. When the only thing left to eat are the moldy crusts of life's bread, I might give them a go.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,384

30th May 2012, 01:24 PM	#145
Bill Thompson 75 Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 1,420	Originally Posted by punshhh In your mind what it is like to be dead? Someone opens up your skull and takes your brain out. They liquify your brain in a blender and put it back into your skull. What you feel then is what it is like to be dead.

30th May 2012, 04:21 PM	#146
Lord Muck oGentry Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 986	Originally Posted by dafydd It's like not being dead. I expect you're right about that. But what does your original question mean? Are you asking What is it to be dead?? If so, you probably don't need to be told the answer. You already know how to use the word dead. Or are you asking What is it for a living person to be dead?? No answer is possible: the question is nonsense. Or are you asking a different question?
Lord Muck oGentry Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 986

30th May 2012, 04:51 PM	#147
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,467	Punshhh seems to have abandoned his own thread.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

30th May 2012, 05:08 PM	#148
Lord Muck oGentry Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 986	Originally Posted by dafydd Punshhh seems to have abandoned his own thread. Apologies to you, dafydd. My last post was addressed to Punshhh, not to you.
Lord Muck oGentry Muse Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 986

30th May 2012, 05:19 PM	#149
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,467	Originally Posted by Lord Muck oGentry Apologies to you, dafydd. My last post was addressed to Punshhh, not to you. No apology needed. I was just wondering where punshhh is and why he started this thread.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

30th May 2012, 11:48 PM	#150
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,264	Originally Posted by dafydd Originally Posted by Marcus "Death" is now considered to be when brain activity ceases. In some cases this has been known to happen when the subject is very much alive. There are many politicians who are living proof of this. Let's hope that one day a cure will be found.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim

30th May 2012, 11:53 PM	#151
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Brian-M Why? And how? Even assuming (incorrectly) that existence is endless? I wouldn't have put incorrectly here, we are talking hypotheticals. Quote: What possible set of circumstances could possibly result in all the correct molecules forming together to exactly reproduce a specific brain complete with memories at time of death, along with a viable functional body? I presumed it would be at the time of birth not death. You would be born just like you were born in your current life. Quote: I don't mean just because it's absurdly incredibly unlikely, or even because infinity doesn't necessarily mean that all possibilities eventuate, but how would it be physically possible for all the molecules to just assemble that way? By being born into a reality. I disagree with what you say about infinity, if its possible it will occur infinite times. Quote: What kind of environment would allow this, other than a new body being born with identical genes and living an exactly identical life... and presumably dying again? But in that case you don't get to continue living. You still die at the same point, or at best die at a slightly later point in time (with your maximum possible life expectancy being the limit for this kind of life "extension")? Ah looks like you considered being born. After your next life presumably you would be born again and again until you could somehow escape the wheel of rebirth. Sounds like Buddhism.

30th May 2012, 11:57 PM	#152
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by stokes234 It's not "like" anything, because it isn't anything. It's like asking me my thoughts on the content of a perfect vacuum. There's nothing to describe, it's simply an absence of life. The philosophical part of my brain isn't scared of being dead for this reason, but the evolutionarily programmed part is still saying I need to get lots of stuff done first, like sleep with lots of attractive girls, and then maybe have some kids and teach them how to hunt and forge basic tools. Wouldn't you still have regrets however philosophical your view?

31st May 2012, 12:00 AM	#153
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Elypsis44 Interesting. Can you share those reasons? I regard being alive as a great privilege, as such I treat it with reverence and gratitude in respect of what ever mechanism produced it.

31st May 2012, 12:03 AM	#154
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Marcus I think you will find that atheists in general are reconciled, while many religious people simply can't accept death, they must imagine they will live forever in some form. Yes, but when you say reconciled is that just a resigned acceptance? After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner.

31st May 2012, 12:05 AM	#155
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by I Ratant . Nothing that is "you" exists past death. Your components do, and become components of other things as they disintegrate. But those daisies your corpse is pushing up aren't "you". You are gone. Forever. For yourself it is absolutely nothing, as though nothing ever existed. A quite chilled state I suppose.