What is death like? - Page 5

devnull · 31st May 2012, 01:40 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

For me the first time I was drowning and second was a cocktail of drugs. Both quite traumatic.

You should try drowning in a cocktail of vermouth instead.

marplots · 31st May 2012, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Yes, but when you say reconciled is that just a resigned acceptance?

After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner.

I think resigned acceptance pretty much covers it. You don't have to see atheists at a funeral though to get the idea. I think of growing old in exactly the same way -- an unavoidable consequence of being alive.

I say unavoidable only because I am not prone to suicidal thinking.

Multivac · 31st May 2012, 03:18 AM

Belgium in the rain.

Or, to answer the question seriously: You won't be aware of it because you will be dead. Your consciousness will no longer exist. You will no longer exist, except as a dead body decomposing in the ground, or as ashes if your body is cremated.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 03:47 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I wouldn't have put incorrectly here, we are talking hypotheticals.

I presumed it would be at the time of birth not death. You would be born just like you were born in your current life.

By being born into a reality. I disagree with what you say about infinity, if its possible it will occur infinite times.

Ah looks like you considered being born. After your next life presumably you would be born again and again until you could somehow escape the wheel of rebirth. Sounds like Buddhism.

I knew you would use your favourite word.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner.

You won't know anything about it. No need to worry about being bored.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 03:51 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

In that case why did existence even bother to exist, if its only to condemn the forms which fleetingly exist to an eternity of oblivion.

Existence could choose to exist? That's a novel concept. Existence is a state of bring, not an entity that can choose. If existence did not choose to exist then where would it be hiding? How are you defining the word ''existence'' here? We'd better check that with you.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 04:08 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

You won't know anything about it. No need to worry about being bored.

No need to worry about anything then?

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

No need to worry about anything then?

Nope. Just do your best, look after your kith and kin and try to be honest in your dealings with people. Wash the dishes after every meal. Hope that when the end comes it won't be too long drawn out and painful. Try and enjoy the ride, you're only here once.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 04:38 AM

Punshhh, why don't you PM Limbo? He has traveled through the universe in his astral body, danced on the dark side of the Moon, he was present at the second coming of Jesus, which nobody else seems to have noticed. He's bound to have been dead and come back to life a few times. I bet he will have the mystical answers that you seek.

Marcus · 31st May 2012, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Yes, but when you say reconciled is that just a resigned acceptance?

After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner.

Yes. The alternative would be non-acceptance, as in convincing yourself that there is really an eternal afterlife waiting for you rather than oblivion. It's one of the big reasons people embrace religion, IMO.

Marcus · 31st May 2012, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

In that case why did existence even bother to exist, if its only to condemn the forms which fleetingly exist to an eternity of oblivion.

That's anthropomorphizing. Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is. In the same way, nature has no mercy, the lion sheds no tears over the fawn it's eating.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 04:57 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

That's anthropomorphizing. Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is. In the same way, nature has no mercy, the lion sheds no tears over the fawn it's eating.

Mystics and believers cannot accept that something just is. There always has to be an esoteric reason, hidden from most of mankind because we are not yet advanced enough to deal with such special knowledge. It's a common theme in ''mystical'' schools of thought, especially Theosophy.

Brian-M · 31st May 2012, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I disagree with what you say about infinity, if its possible it will occur infinite times.

Why? Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that it will contain every possibility. For example, you could easily have an infinite non-repeating series of decimal digits that never contains the digit 7.

Unless you mean if it can be produced by random chance, it may occur infinite times?

But your existing mind/memories at your point of death can't just randomly be reproduced in a new healthy body.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 07:24 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

That's anthropomorphizing.

Yes this is because I am talking to a human from a human point of view.

Quote:

Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is.

This can only be an assumption, or can you offer some proof of this?

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Mystics and believers cannot accept that something just is.

How do you know what it is that just is? or are you assuming that physical matter as described by science is all there is? Where's your proof?

nakedjuggler · 31st May 2012, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Croydon Bob

I refer the honourable gentleman to post #38 of this thread.

Ah! Sorry - missed it 1st read through.

Marcus · 31st May 2012, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Mystics and believers cannot accept that something just is. There always has to be an esoteric reason, hidden from most of mankind because we are not yet advanced enough to deal with such special knowledge. It's a common theme in ''mystical'' schools of thought, especially Theosophy.

I guess there is just a big need to feel special. Privy to secret knowledge, chosen by God, something.

Marcus · 31st May 2012, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Yes this is because I am talking to a human from a human point of view.This can only be an assumption, or can you offer some proof of this?

Anthropomorphizing is assigning human characteristics to things which are non-human. "Existence" is definitely non-human , so the default position would be that it doesn't have any human feelings like wanting something.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 07:41 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

Why? Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that it will contain every possibility. For example, you could easily have an infinite non-repeating series of decimal digits that never contains the digit 7.

In that case 7 is not a possibility. Look at it the other way around, there will be an infinite quantity of combinations of any and all units, except those which are in some way impossible given the circumstances. I have proof that the combination of atoms which form myself at birth, can form in this existence. Hence it may occur infinite times.

Quote:

Unless you mean if it can be produced by random chance, it may occur infinite times?

Not necessarily, although there is talk that the form our known universe takes is a result of random processes following the Big bang. If it may occur in an infinitely endless space and time it will occur infinite times.

Quote:

But your existing mind/memories at your point of death can't just randomly be reproduced in a new healthy body.

Yes I am not going to dispute this. My assumption is that the right conditions for you to be born again in the precise form you were last time, would result in a continuation of the same life.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by Marcus

Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is.

"It just is", it just is what?

Reivax · 31st May 2012, 07:51 AM

Probs like sitting in the car with grandma for 4 hours.

Kidding. Apparently a friend of a friend of mine was in the shower contemplating death so intensely that he passed out. Probably not true, but I like this story.

Also, as Dessi suggested, the movie Enter The Void tries to emulate the experience of smoking DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) which is apparently comparable to an near death experience.

RenaissanceBiker · 31st May 2012, 08:04 AM

What is the last thing you watched die?

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 08:16 AM

Originally Posted by Brian-M

Why? Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that it will contain every possibility. For example, you could easily have an infinite non-repeating series of decimal digits that never contains the digit 7.

Unless you mean if it can be produced by random chance, it may occur infinite times?

But your existing mind/memories at your point of death can't just randomly be reproduced in a new healthy body.

We have been through his misconceptions about infinity in another thread.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

How do you know what it is that just is? or are you assuming that physical matter as described by science is all there is? Where's your proof?

You have to provide the proof of any esoteric claim. Prove that there is something beside matter and energy.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Yes this is because I am talking to a human from a human point of view.This can only be an assumption, or can you offer some proof of this?

Once again, you have to justify anthropomorphizing existence.

Marcus · 31st May 2012, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

"It just is", it just is what?

It just is existence, it's not an entity that can care about the fate of humans.

I can't prove this any more than I can prove that there isn't an invisible pink unicorn living in my garage, but that doesn't make mystical explanations more likely.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

In that case 7 is not a possibility. Look at it the other way around, there will be an infinite quantity of combinations of any and all units, except those which are in some way impossible given the circumstances. I have proof that the combination of atoms which form myself at birth, can form in this existence. Hence it may occur infinite times.

Present this proof please.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker

What is the last thing you watched die?

My wife.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

"It just is", it just is what?

Again please, in English.

punshhh · 31st May 2012, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

Present this proof please.

I am the proof, given an infinite universe, I will reoccur an infinite number of times.

Whether the me writing this will be aware of it is another matter.

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I am the proof, given an infinite universe, I will reoccur an infinite number of times.

Whether the me writing this will be aware of it is another matter.

You are proof of something, but not that. You are proof that your mother and father were very friendly. You have no proof that you will re-occur an infinite number of times, that is just a fantasy of yours. Unless you can prove it? How many times have you been here already? I bet you can't remember.

Pup · 31st May 2012, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

In that case 7 is not a possibility. Look at it the other way around, there will be an infinite quantity of combinations of any and all units, except those which are in some way impossible given the circumstances. I have proof that the combination of atoms which form myself at birth, can form in this existence. Hence it may occur infinite times.

It's also possible to have an infinite sequence of numbers in which 7 occurs only once.

But let's say another "you" springs into existence in the future, one or more times. You wouldn't know it, because if you did, it wouldn't be exactly like "you" are now. You may already have sprung into existence dozens of times in the past, and you aren't aware of it.

I'm not sure of the point of imagining such a thing. If it's supposed to be comforting because it removes the finality of death, well, death will still seem just as final. If it's just speculation, then it's no more or less interesting than any of the other thousands of possible speculations.

I Ratant · 31st May 2012, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

No need to worry about anything then?

.
Sure there is.
Stepping in front of the 18-wheeler barreling down the road is still not a good idea.
Crossing against the light.
Contraindicated.
Tugging on Superman's cape, spitting into the wind..
Take care of yourself, and you -will die- when you can no longer live, not before.
But die you will.

I Ratant · 31st May 2012, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker

What is the last thing you watched die?

.
Buncha ants this morning.. that ant killer does not work all the time!

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Pup

I'm not sure of the point of imagining such a thing. If it's supposed to be comforting because it removes the finality of death, well, death will still seem just as final. If it's just speculation, then it's no more or less interesting than any of the other thousands of possible speculations.

Ditto. Games of ''let's pretend'' get boring after a while.

marplots · 31st May 2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

I am the proof, given an infinite universe, I will reoccur an infinite number of times.

Whether the me writing this will be aware of it is another matter.

This cannot be true because of the hierarchy of infinites required. For you to exist as you do now, the entire universe (at least in our light cone) would have to be duplicated, and so on, and on. The same logic can be used to say, "If I exist twice, then I must exist four times and an infinite number of times." And the same argument, if it were valid, could be made for all of time and space and all the rearrangements of the same. Will you also ask that the whole charade be played out, in the same sequence, an infinite number of times?

You could set it up al la Godel with a dash of Cantor to see why this doesn't work.

"Infinity" is being misused here as a kind of hand waving, mystical, "don't take me seriously."

dafydd · 31st May 2012, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by marplots

This cannot be true because of the hierarchy of infinites required. For you to exist as you do now, the entire universe (at least in our light cone) would have to be duplicated, and so on, and on. The same logic can be used to say, "If I exist twice, then I must exist four times and an infinite number of times." And the same argument, if it were valid, could be made for all of time and space and all the rearrangements of the same. Will you also ask that the whole charade be played out, in the same sequence, an infinite number of times?

You could set it up al la Godel with a dash of Cantor to see why this doesn't work.

"Infinity" is being misused here as a kind of hand waving, mystical, "don't take me seriously."

As it was used in another thread.

Bill Thompson 75 · 31st May 2012, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by punshhh

Do you know how it feels Bill?

I imagine it's like if your consciousness only existed within an online forum.

jhunter1163 · 31st May 2012, 11:03 AM

I imagine it's like going under anesthesia; you're just gone. One minute you're there, perhaps suffering, physically or mentally... and then you're just not.

I'm in no hurry to find out empirically.

Hokulele · 31st May 2012, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by NoahFence

You mean legions of ignorant Steelers fans thinking "Spygate" actually helped the Pats beat them at home twice in the AFC Championship Game?

ANTPogo and steve s were both quoting the Calvin and Hobbes cartoon where Calvin asks about where people go when they die.

31st May 2012, 01:40 AM	#161
devnull Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 4,532	Originally Posted by punshhh For me the first time I was drowning and second was a cocktail of drugs. Both quite traumatic. You should try drowning in a cocktail of vermouth instead.
	__________________ no, i don't think i need to read naturalistic literature more accurately, to be convinced its true. - Gibhor

31st May 2012, 02:00 AM	#162
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,361	Originally Posted by punshhh Yes, but when you say reconciled is that just a resigned acceptance? After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner. I think resigned acceptance pretty much covers it. You don't have to see atheists at a funeral though to get the idea. I think of growing old in exactly the same way -- an unavoidable consequence of being alive. I say unavoidable only because I am not prone to suicidal thinking.
marplots Philosopher Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 5,361

31st May 2012, 03:47 AM	#164
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh I wouldn't have put incorrectly here, we are talking hypotheticals. I presumed it would be at the time of birth not death. You would be born just like you were born in your current life. By being born into a reality. I disagree with what you say about infinity, if its possible it will occur infinite times. Ah looks like you considered being born. After your next life presumably you would be born again and again until you could somehow escape the wheel of rebirth. Sounds like Buddhism. I knew you would use your favourite word.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 03:48 AM	#165
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner. You won't know anything about it. No need to worry about being bored.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 31st May 2012 at 03:53 AM.

31st May 2012, 03:51 AM	#166
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh In that case why did existence even bother to exist, if its only to condemn the forms which fleetingly exist to an eternity of oblivion. Existence could choose to exist? That's a novel concept. Existence is a state of bring, not an entity that can choose. If existence did not choose to exist then where would it be hiding? How are you defining the word ''existence'' here? We'd better check that with you.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 31st May 2012 at 03:53 AM.

31st May 2012, 03:18 AM	#163
Multivac Graduate Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,931	Belgium in the rain. Or, to answer the question seriously: You won't be aware of it because you will be dead. Your consciousness will no longer exist. You will no longer exist, except as a dead body decomposing in the ground, or as ashes if your body is cremated.

31st May 2012, 04:08 AM	#167
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by dafydd You won't know anything about it. No need to worry about being bored. No need to worry about anything then?

31st May 2012, 04:17 AM	#168
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh No need to worry about anything then? Nope. Just do your best, look after your kith and kin and try to be honest in your dealings with people. Wash the dishes after every meal. Hope that when the end comes it won't be too long drawn out and painful. Try and enjoy the ride, you're only here once.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 31st May 2012 at 04:26 AM.

31st May 2012, 04:38 AM	#169
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Punshhh, why don't you PM Limbo? He has traveled through the universe in his astral body, danced on the dark side of the Moon, he was present at the second coming of Jesus, which nobody else seems to have noticed. He's bound to have been dead and come back to life a few times. I bet he will have the mystical answers that you seek.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 04:47 AM	#170
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by punshhh Yes, but when you say reconciled is that just a resigned acceptance? After all one is referring to an eternity of non existence, waiting just around the corner. Yes. The alternative would be non-acceptance, as in convincing yourself that there is really an eternal afterlife waiting for you rather than oblivion. It's one of the big reasons people embrace religion, IMO.

31st May 2012, 04:53 AM	#171
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by punshhh In that case why did existence even bother to exist, if its only to condemn the forms which fleetingly exist to an eternity of oblivion. That's anthropomorphizing. Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is. In the same way, nature has no mercy, the lion sheds no tears over the fawn it's eating.

31st May 2012, 04:57 AM	#172
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by Marcus That's anthropomorphizing. Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is. In the same way, nature has no mercy, the lion sheds no tears over the fawn it's eating. Mystics and believers cannot accept that something just is. There always has to be an esoteric reason, hidden from most of mankind because we are not yet advanced enough to deal with such special knowledge. It's a common theme in ''mystical'' schools of thought, especially Theosophy.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 31st May 2012 at 05:35 AM.

31st May 2012, 05:47 AM	#173
Brian-M Daydreamer Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Downunder Posts: 4,237	Originally Posted by punshhh I disagree with what you say about infinity, if its possible it will occur infinite times. Why? Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that it will contain every possibility. For example, you could easily have an infinite non-repeating series of decimal digits that never contains the digit 7. Unless you mean if it can be produced by random chance, it may occur infinite times? But your existing mind/memories at your point of death can't just randomly be reproduced in a new healthy body.
	__________________ "That is just what you feel, that isn't reality." - hamelekim Last edited by Brian-M; 31st May 2012 at 05:53 AM.

31st May 2012, 07:24 AM	#174
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Marcus That's anthropomorphizing. Yes this is because I am talking to a human from a human point of view. Quote: Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is. This can only be an assumption, or can you offer some proof of this?

31st May 2012, 07:26 AM	#175
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by dafydd Mystics and believers cannot accept that something just is. How do you know what it is that just is? or are you assuming that physical matter as described by science is all there is? Where's your proof?

31st May 2012, 07:27 AM	#176
nakedjuggler Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: If sunny, Spielplatz Posts: 406	Originally Posted by Croydon Bob I refer the honourable gentleman to post #38 of this thread. Ah! Sorry - missed it 1st read through.

31st May 2012, 07:30 AM	#177
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by dafydd Mystics and believers cannot accept that something just is. There always has to be an esoteric reason, hidden from most of mankind because we are not yet advanced enough to deal with such special knowledge. It's a common theme in ''mystical'' schools of thought, especially Theosophy. I guess there is just a big need to feel special. Privy to secret knowledge, chosen by God, something.

31st May 2012, 07:37 AM	#178
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by punshhh Yes this is because I am talking to a human from a human point of view.This can only be an assumption, or can you offer some proof of this? Anthropomorphizing is assigning human characteristics to things which are non-human. "Existence" is definitely non-human , so the default position would be that it doesn't have any human feelings like wanting something.

31st May 2012, 07:41 AM	#179
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Brian-M Why? Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that it will contain every possibility. For example, you could easily have an infinite non-repeating series of decimal digits that never contains the digit 7. In that case 7 is not a possibility. Look at it the other way around, there will be an infinite quantity of combinations of any and all units, except those which are in some way impossible given the circumstances. I have proof that the combination of atoms which form myself at birth, can form in this existence. Hence it may occur infinite times. Quote: Unless you mean if it can be produced by random chance, it may occur infinite times? Not necessarily, although there is talk that the form our known universe takes is a result of random processes following the Big bang. If it may occur in an infinitely endless space and time it will occur infinite times. Quote: But your existing mind/memories at your point of death can't just randomly be reproduced in a new healthy body. Yes I am not going to dispute this. My assumption is that the right conditions for you to be born again in the precise form you were last time, would result in a continuation of the same life.

31st May 2012, 07:45 AM	#180
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by Marcus Existence can't bother to do anything or condemn anyone, it just is. "It just is", it just is what?

31st May 2012, 07:51 AM	#181
Reivax Thinker Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Australia Posts: 194	Probs like sitting in the car with grandma for 4 hours. Kidding. Apparently a friend of a friend of mine was in the shower contemplating death so intensely that he passed out. Probably not true, but I like this story. Also, as Dessi suggested, the movie Enter The Void tries to emulate the experience of smoking DMT (Dimethyltryptamine) which is apparently comparable to an near death experience.
	__________________ You will find easily More than sufficient doubt That these colours you see Were picked in advance By some careful hand With an absolute concept of beauty

31st May 2012, 08:04 AM	#182
RenaissanceBiker Eats shoots and leaves. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: South Carolina Posts: 6,793	What is the last thing you watched die?
	__________________ "Truth does not contradict truth." - St. Augustine "Faith often contradicts faith. Therefore faith is not an indication of truth." - RenaissanceBiker

31st May 2012, 08:16 AM	#183
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by Brian-M Why? Just because something is infinite doesn't mean that it will contain every possibility. For example, you could easily have an infinite non-repeating series of decimal digits that never contains the digit 7. Unless you mean if it can be produced by random chance, it may occur infinite times? But your existing mind/memories at your point of death can't just randomly be reproduced in a new healthy body. We have been through his misconceptions about infinity in another thread.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 08:18 AM	#184
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh How do you know what it is that just is? or are you assuming that physical matter as described by science is all there is? Where's your proof? You have to provide the proof of any esoteric claim. Prove that there is something beside matter and energy.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 31st May 2012 at 08:23 AM.

31st May 2012, 08:19 AM	#185
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh Yes this is because I am talking to a human from a human point of view.This can only be an assumption, or can you offer some proof of this? Once again, you have to justify anthropomorphizing existence.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 08:19 AM	#186
Marcus Graduate Poster Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Austin Posts: 1,840	Originally Posted by punshhh "It just is", it just is what? It just is existence, it's not an entity that can care about the fate of humans. I can't prove this any more than I can prove that there isn't an invisible pink unicorn living in my garage, but that doesn't make mystical explanations more likely.

31st May 2012, 08:20 AM	#187
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh In that case 7 is not a possibility. Look at it the other way around, there will be an infinite quantity of combinations of any and all units, except those which are in some way impossible given the circumstances. I have proof that the combination of atoms which form myself at birth, can form in this existence. Hence it may occur infinite times. Present this proof please.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 08:22 AM	#188
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker What is the last thing you watched die? My wife.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 08:23 AM	#189
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh "It just is", it just is what? Again please, in English.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

31st May 2012, 09:54 AM	#190
punshhh Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rural England Posts: 4,165	Originally Posted by dafydd Present this proof please. I am the proof, given an infinite universe, I will reoccur an infinite number of times. Whether the me writing this will be aware of it is another matter.

31st May 2012, 10:04 AM	#191
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by punshhh I am the proof, given an infinite universe, I will reoccur an infinite number of times. Whether the me writing this will be aware of it is another matter. You are proof of something, but not that. You are proof that your mother and father were very friendly. You have no proof that you will re-occur an infinite number of times, that is just a fantasy of yours. Unless you can prove it? How many times have you been here already? I bet you can't remember.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 31st May 2012 at 10:06 AM.

31st May 2012, 10:13 AM	#192
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,587	Originally Posted by punshhh In that case 7 is not a possibility. Look at it the other way around, there will be an infinite quantity of combinations of any and all units, except those which are in some way impossible given the circumstances. I have proof that the combination of atoms which form myself at birth, can form in this existence. Hence it may occur infinite times. It's also possible to have an infinite sequence of numbers in which 7 occurs only once. But let's say another "you" springs into existence in the future, one or more times. You wouldn't know it, because if you did, it wouldn't be exactly like "you" are now. You may already have sprung into existence dozens of times in the past, and you aren't aware of it. I'm not sure of the point of imagining such a thing. If it's supposed to be comforting because it removes the finality of death, well, death will still seem just as final. If it's just speculation, then it's no more or less interesting than any of the other thousands of possible speculations.
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,587

31st May 2012, 10:14 AM	#193
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by punshhh No need to worry about anything then? . Sure there is. Stepping in front of the 18-wheeler barreling down the road is still not a good idea. Crossing against the light. Contraindicated. Tugging on Superman's cape, spitting into the wind.. Take care of yourself, and you -will die- when you can no longer live, not before. But die you will.

31st May 2012, 10:17 AM	#194
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by RenaissanceBiker What is the last thing you watched die? . Buncha ants this morning.. that ant killer does not work all the time!

31st May 2012, 10:17 AM	#195
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,443	Originally Posted by Pup I'm not sure of the point of imagining such a thing. If it's supposed to be comforting because it removes the finality of death, well, death will still seem just as final. If it's just speculation, then it's no more or less interesting than any of the other thousands of possible speculations. Ditto. Games of ''let's pretend'' get boring after a while.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.