Libraries - the countdown

lionking · 30th May 2012, 02:09 AM

Sorry Library Lady, but the clock is ticking. A number of schools here are closing their libraries and opening "media rooms". Video stores virtually gone. Bookshops soon. Libraries?

The Don · 30th May 2012, 02:48 AM

Here in the UK as part of "Call me Dave"'s big society initiative, funding for libraries is being slashed and the expectation is that they will be mainly run by volunteers under the guidance of a professional librarian.

The basis for this is that this model has been moderately successful in upper-middle-class communities (where I suppose ladies who lunch are now ladies who librarian) though I note from this story that the scheme has been successfully challenged in court. I'm not sure how well it will work in deprived areas where there are fewer well-educated people with time on their hands who are willing to volunteer (and where libraries arguably are able to do the most good)

OnlyTellsTruths · 30th May 2012, 02:58 AM

I'll believe it when I see it.

They already have eBook sections and multi-media sections...

commandlinegamer · 30th May 2012, 03:00 AM

A topical story (I thought at first when I read a Twitter link to this, thieves had broken in during the night):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ma...stripped-books

Our local library is still going. Trouble is, while I appreciate the need for it, I can't remember the last time I was in it. Probably 4-5 years ago.

Fishstick · 30th May 2012, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

A topical story (I thought at first when I read a Twitter link to this, thieves had broken in during the night):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ma...stripped-books

Our local library is still going. Trouble is, while I appreciate the need for it, I can't remember the last time I was in it. Probably 4-5 years ago.

My city's invested in its libraries over the last decade, and it's a pleasure to use since I started visiting again a few years ago. Ebook/Media/magazine selections, incredibly fast and easy lending and returning by means of barcode scanning and conveyors. I love it, and I visit at least once a month.

LibraryLady · 30th May 2012, 03:13 AM

School libraries here in my part of the world have been called "Media Centers" for years; indeed school librarians are known as "Media Specialists."

This morning there's a news story that they are getting companies to sponsor firetrucks and city buildings, by paying to plaster their names on the buildings. This could open a serious can of bookworms for the library.

JerryGarcia · 30th May 2012, 03:24 AM

I've been hearing it for 20 years, and usage at my library just keeps going up.

Marduk · 30th May 2012, 04:09 AM

Originally Posted by Fishstick

My city's invested in its libraries over the last decade, and it's a pleasure to use since I started visiting again a few years ago. Ebook/Media/magazine selections, incredibly fast and easy lending and returning by means of barcode scanning and conveyors. I love it, and I visit at least once a month.

just how do they lend an ebook ?

what is the penalty for late returns

+ do you like fishsticks ?

lionking · 30th May 2012, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by JerryGarcia

I've been hearing it for 20 years, and usage at my library just keeps going up.

I really hope you're right. When I was unemployed 20 years ago, the library was my saviour.

LibraryLady · 30th May 2012, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

just how do they lend an ebook ?

what is the penalty for late returns

+ do you like fishsticks ?

We use a program called Overdrive. You can look up the book on Overdrive, select your library, put in the card number, select the book and put it into your Kindle, Nook, or other folder for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks, the book simply disappears from your folder. There are no overdue fines.

I liked fishsticks when I was a kid, but seem to have outgrown them.

Originally Posted by lionking

I really hope you're right. When I was unemployed 20 years ago, the library was my saviour.

About 30% of my job is now helping people with job applications, creating email accounts to send job applications, and helping with resumes. And I work in the Humanities department. We are all working on this and occasionally, when someone comes in an announces they are starting work, it's a huge payoff.

Careyp74 · 30th May 2012, 06:18 AM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

We use a program called Overdrive. You can look up the book on Overdrive, select your library, put in the card number, select the book and put it into your Kindle, Nook, or other folder for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks, the book simply disappears from your folder. There are no overdue fines.

My library uses Overdrive for audiobooks, but the ebooks that I get usually come directly from Amazon. We also don't need to go to either site to search for those types, it is done directly through the main library site, although I can search the overdrive site on my phone the same way you describe. Comes up amongst the regular hard copy search returns.

DC · 30th May 2012, 06:19 AM

yeah bookshops will diapear the day we have paperless offices

Tiktaalik · 30th May 2012, 06:34 AM

The nearest library to me is moving into a big new building...its imminent demise doesn't seem too imminent.

Careyp74 · 30th May 2012, 06:39 AM

Originally Posted by DC

yeah bookshops will diapear the day we have paperless offices

Barnes and Noble has kept up with its diversification. I was just in there yesterday. They have the coffee bar, and sell the eBook readers. There is no reason to think book stores and libraries are on their way out, just because of the internet.

Marduk · 30th May 2012, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

We use a program called Overdrive. You can look up the book on Overdrive, select your library, put in the card number, select the book and put it into your Kindle, Nook, or other folder for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks, the book simply disappears from your folder. There are no overdue fines..

Awesome, think I'll stick with Pirate Bay and Isohunt for now though, they let you have the books longer

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

I liked fishsticks when I was a kid, but seem to have outgrown them.
.

so you used to be a gay fish,

tomwaits · 30th May 2012, 07:23 AM

At my school, nobody uses the library. It's filled to the brim with reporters and law review journal archives but Lexis and Westlaw have made that all but obsolete. For a while, the school was making Lexis/WL only available to students after their first year was over so as to make them more comfortable in doing research if they didn't have access, but not anymore.

MG1962 · 30th May 2012, 07:40 AM

These institutions are going nowhere - Their purpose and resources will change over time but the basic concept of a knowledge center has remained constant through many 1000's of years and many civilizations.

Regardless of what media knowledge is stored in - you still need to learn the art of accessing that information in a meaningful way. Librarians are extremely good in teaching you that art

tomwaits · 30th May 2012, 07:46 AM

Originally Posted by MG1962

These institutions are going nowhere - Their purpose and resources will change over time but the basic concept of a knowledge center has remained constant through many 1000's of years and many civilizations.

Regardless of what media knowledge is stored in - you still need to learn the art of accessing that information in a meaningful way. Librarians are extremely good in teaching you that art

I do accept, of course, that libraries in general are definitely helpful, at least for now. I still like the idea that a homeless person, with no internet or smartphone, can have access to the sum total of human knowledge if they so choose. It's just the format of that knowledge that will change.

MG1962 · 30th May 2012, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by tomwaits

I do accept, of course, that libraries in general are definitely helpful, at least for now. I still like the idea that a homeless person, with no internet or smartphone, can have access to the sum total of human knowledge if they so choose. It's just the format of that knowledge that will change.

I have no doubt you are right - But if we just look at the format changes before the electronic age we can see how adaptable the concepts of libraries are

The Don · 30th May 2012, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by LibraryLady

We use a program called Overdrive.

Book Returner Overdrive ?

Akhenaten · 30th May 2012, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by The Don

Book Returner Overdrive ?

Nominised.

BenBurch · 30th May 2012, 08:13 AM

My library has both Amazon and Media Mail for ebook lending. I've used both. More Amazon since I have a kindle and it's less hassle.

The Library in my town is changing into a multimedia space. They have two new buildings, large computer labs, lots and lots of DVDs and games to borrow. Ebooks we mentioned. Also meeting spaces for community groups, special event coordination with the schools, etc.

And did I mention that they have these bound stacks of paper called "books"?

geni · 30th May 2012, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by MG1962

These institutions are going nowhere - Their purpose and resources will change over time but the basic concept of a knowledge center has remained constant through many 1000's of years and many civilizations.

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...versfront1.jpg ?

Quote:

Regardless of what media knowledge is stored in - you still need to learn the art of accessing that information in a meaningful way. Librarians are extremely good in teaching you that art

Only relivant if you think we need a special building to store Librarians. Automated search tools are also getting better. For the time being libiaries will surivive simply because there is a lot of stuff that isn't digitalised. Longer term it is entirely possible they will retrete to being centeral archives.

geni · 30th May 2012, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

And did I mention that they have these bound stacks of paper called "books"?

Wierd concept. 2 of my local libiary systems appear to be phasing those out. One is trying to keep one copy of everything but the other didn't bother doing that.

Careyp74 · 31st May 2012, 05:46 AM

Originally Posted by geni

Wierd concept. 2 of my local libiary systems appear to be phasing those out. One is trying to keep one copy of everything but the other didn't bother doing that.

I noticed though, there are a lot of relatively new books that I can get at the library and borrow, but if I wanted the eBook it isn't available in the library system, and I would have to buy it. This causes me to have to travel a lot around the county for certain books.

I hope the hard copies don't die out. Either that, or allow a broader range of eBooks for borrowing.

tyr_13 · 31st May 2012, 09:41 AM

The director of our local library, the James Prendergast Library, has been taking a lot of heat for, well, everything real and imagined by some 'old schoolers' and people who like to get riled up about everything. I get the feeling these people complain about any changes in Jamestown because it might make the city better and then they'd lose their hobby of whine, bitch and moan about how things suck in Jamestown.

She was accused of destroying books. This is because she did cull something like 10% of the reference section. This was done because the books culled (not destroyed, just removed) were redundant and outdated. She did exactly what should be done with what was mostly medical texts from the 30's and 40's. She removed them and is working on getting updated books.

She was accused of wanting to destroy the library because she's expanding the e-book program and computer access dramatically. This is a direct result of increased demand for these programs. The e-book program specifically is one of the most popular programs in the building.

She was accused of wanting to turn the library into a coffee shop book store. This was because she suggested spinning of the entertainment 'light lit' section, which has been growing, off into a coffee house book store/library in one of the "wonderful buildings in Jamestown that sadly go unused." Of course she was also attacked for pointing out that Jamestown has wonderful buildings that are going unused, which is completely true. (Side note, that has made it possible for me to maybe actually have my first home purchase be a townhouse building or the old Viking's lodge as these historic downtown structures are priced less than many homes only a few blocks away.) It is actually a good idea supported by the users of that section of books that could make money for the library system. But it's different.

Then there are the things that are made up whole cloth, like her wanting to destroy the painting in the children's section. As far as I've been able to tell, she has proposed nothing with that wall art.

Some smaller libraries will probably die out. Hell, some larger ones that refuse to change might too. But libraries as a concept will still be around and still be useful, still provide knowledge, but have fewer physical books.

A rose by any other name and all that.

Malcolm Kirkpatrick · 31st May 2012, 09:57 AM

What Tyr said, times 100. Libraries are not about ink-stained slabs of processed wood but about storing and sharing information. I like those ink-stained slabs of wood and don't own a Kindle or Nook, but I have to admit that if you want to take a wide variety of reading matter on a four day hike to the Mauna Loa summit, one Kindle beats 1000 pounds of paper, hands down. Libraries receive limited budgets. E-books are cheaper to buy and to store. Library buildings may follow newspaper printing presses and communism onto the ash heap of history.

Weak Kitten · 31st May 2012, 11:11 AM

I really would hate to see our local library go. On top of all of the excellent books they also have a DVD section. Much to my joy they have a lot of the expensive boxed sets of educational shows that I've been thinking about buying but couldn't find the money. I now don't have to worry about my child never seeing "Connections"!

pipelineaudio · 31st May 2012, 11:34 AM

Libraries are primarily IP, just like the music, software and film industries. They've always been mentioned as similarly doomed alongside the medical field in pessimistic "the coming technological dark age" discussions since at least the early 90's

Pup · 31st May 2012, 12:03 PM

Maybe I'm coming at this from a minority perspective--historical research--but the only thing I use libraries for is to access information that hasn't been digitized yet. I would much prefer to use searchable digitized copies, and would much prefer them to be accessible in my own home on my home computer. The only point to a library is to house things that haven't been transferred over yet, or to keep original copies of things, like a museum, just for their sentimental value and not their informational value (except for the information they contain in their physical form and not their words--one could potentially analyze paper or ink in an original document suspected of being fake, for example).

Old tricks to make information accessible, like indexes and alphabetization, are obsolete. Traveling to a central repository used to be necessary when traveling was easier than reproducing information, but now the opposite is true. It's as silly to expect patrons to visit a central repository to get information nowadays, as to expect a doctor to spend his time half his day traveling on the way to house calls. Similarly, it's silly to drive somewhere to borrow a physical disk, when the technology is here and expanding, to rent anything immediately through one's home computer.

I can see libraries hanging on for special circumstances, like the few interurban streetcars or long distance trains that still find a few routes profitable, or as a novelty experience like taking a horse-and-carriage ride, or as combination charity buildings for the homeless, but I don't see them surviving indefinitely as buildings you go to for information, when information is available anywhere.

Where are all the passenger train stations, or the river packets, or the intercontinental ocean liners, now that we have cars and planes? Technology really does make some things obsolete.

Damien Evans · 31st May 2012, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Pup

Maybe I'm coming at this from a minority perspective--historical research--but the only thing I use libraries for is to access information that hasn't been digitized yet. I would much prefer to use searchable digitized copies, and would much prefer them to be accessible in my own home on my home computer. The only point to a library is to house things that haven't been transferred over yet, or to keep original copies of things, like a museum, just for their sentimental value and not their informational value (except for the information they contain in their physical form and not their words--one could potentially analyze paper or ink in an original document suspected of being fake, for example).

Old tricks to make information accessible, like indexes and alphabetization, are obsolete. Traveling to a central repository used to be necessary when traveling was easier than reproducing information, but now the opposite is true. It's as silly to expect patrons to visit a central repository to get information nowadays, as to expect a doctor to spend his time half his day traveling on the way to house calls. Similarly, it's silly to drive somewhere to borrow a physical disk, when the technology is here and expanding, to rent anything immediately through one's home computer.

I can see libraries hanging on for special circumstances, like the few interurban streetcars or long distance trains that still find a few routes profitable, or as a novelty experience like taking a horse-and-carriage ride, or as combination charity buildings for the homeless, but I don't see them surviving indefinitely as buildings you go to for information, when information is available anywhere.

Where are all the passenger train stations, or the river packets, or the intercontinental ocean liners, now that we have cars and planes? Technology really does make some things obsolete.

You are joking there, yes?

Because the alternative is that you are profoundly ignorant, and should heard down to your local Library to learn about it.

Lamuella · 31st May 2012, 11:45 PM

Libraries won't go, but they will change. Individual library services will sadly close, but there will still be a need for community based information and entertainment gateways.

Lamuella · 31st May 2012, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Pup

Where are all the passenger train stations, or the river packets, or the intercontinental ocean liners, now that we have cars and planes? Technology really does make some things obsolete.

the fact that you live in a part of the world too backwards to have a decent public transport infrastructure doesn't mean such a thing is obsolete.

Orphia Nay · 31st May 2012, 11:54 PM

Originally Posted by Lamuella

Libraries won't go, but they will change. Individual library services will sadly close, but there will still be a need for community based information and entertainment gateways.

Indeed. I think our local library's "mobile library service" (a library on wheels visiting smaller communities in the area) is rumoured to be shutting down.

But the main library recently had a big refurbishment and now includes loads of computer stations for public use, which are usually all being used whenever I go in.

tomwaits · 1st June 2012, 02:07 AM

Before I moved to the city, I used to take the train every day to and from work. Seeing all the Amtrak passengers mulling around Union Station would also indicate passenger trains are not dead, but whether Amtrak is actually cost effective is sort of controversial.

marplots · 1st June 2012, 02:14 AM

Last time I went to the library was for a class on PowerPoint. Guess what. It was taught by a librarian.

Librarians are pretty clever monkeys when it comes to adopting technology and still remaining indispensable themselves.

Lamuella · 1st June 2012, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by marplots

Last time I went to the library was for a class on PowerPoint. Guess what. It was taught by a librarian.

Depending on where and when it was, there's a percentage chance it was taught by me.

I sometimes miss public libraries. Gave them 6 years of my life before interesting times left me managing a medical library.

Kid Eager · 1st June 2012, 02:51 AM

I go to the local library regularly - you could call it a symbiotic relationship, as I both borrow books and donate books once I have read them.

The days of donating books might be coming to an end soon, though. I donate well in excess of $500 worth of books per year every year for the past decade at least, but I'm now considering converting to an iPad and ebooks. Still thinking about it, no decision as yet.

Captain.Sassy · 1st June 2012, 02:51 AM

I think the idea of re-purposing some parts of public libraries for tech-spaces / hacker-labs / fab-labs is pretty cool:

http://www.fayettevillefreelibrary.o...ervices/fablab

This is also a kind of interesting idea:

http://biblioottawalibrary.ca/en/main/about/comm/human

Dunno how much people actually used it though. I wonder if the stripper was hot?

Pup · 1st June 2012, 06:12 AM

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

You are joking there, yes?

Because the alternative is that you are profoundly ignorant, and should heard down to your local Library to learn about it.

You must be assuming I'm speaking worldwide, when I'm actually speaking about the U.S.

But apparently even tomwaits, who understood I was talking about Amtrak in America, doesn't get it.

Here's a couple links (no need to go to a library):
Amtrak routes today
1875 railroad routes
Zoom in on that 1875 map. Every one of those little black lines is a railroad, and every one of those little circles is a station. And they weren't done building them yet. Where are those stations today?

That's a dramatic change.

I googled railroads in Australia, and though I'm not familiar with Australia's railroad history, in a quick look at Victoria at least, there seems to be a similar trend there:

1930 Railway Map of Victoria
2000 Railway Map of Victoria

Notice not only how sparse the 2000 map is, but how many stations were removed from the routes that remain.

Those maps are from here, which describes the decline in stations in the 1950s-1970s.

That's what it'll be like for libraries one day. Not only will they be gone, people apparently won't even remember when every little city had its own.

30th May 2012, 02:09 AM	#1
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,653	Libraries - the countdown Sorry Library Lady, but the clock is ticking. A number of schools here are closing their libraries and opening "media rooms". Video stores virtually gone. Bookshops soon. Libraries?
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th May 2012, 02:58 AM	#3
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,790	I'll believe it when I see it. They already have eBook sections and multi-media sections...
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,790	__________________ ________________________

30th May 2012, 03:00 AM	#4
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,896	A topical story (I thought at first when I read a Twitter link to this, thieves had broken in during the night): http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ma...stripped-books Our local library is still going. Trouble is, while I appreciate the need for it, I can't remember the last time I was in it. Probably 4-5 years ago.
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house. Last edited by commandlinegamer; 30th May 2012 at 03:03 AM.

30th May 2012, 03:13 AM	#6
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,075	School libraries here in my part of the world have been called "Media Centers" for years; indeed school librarians are known as "Media Specialists." This morning there's a news story that they are getting companies to sponsor firetrucks and city buildings, by paying to plaster their names on the buildings. This could open a serious can of bookworms for the library.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

30th May 2012, 03:24 AM	#7
JerryGarcia Muse Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Montpelier, VT Posts: 785	I've been hearing it for 20 years, and usage at my library just keeps going up.
	__________________ "It was better than "Cries and Whispers", man!"

30th May 2012, 02:48 AM	#2
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,239	Here in the UK as part of "Call me Dave"'s big society initiative, funding for libraries is being slashed and the expectation is that they will be mainly run by volunteers under the guidance of a professional librarian. The basis for this is that this model has been moderately successful in upper-middle-class communities (where I suppose ladies who lunch are now ladies who librarian) though I note from this story that the scheme has been successfully challenged in court. I'm not sure how well it will work in deprived areas where there are fewer well-educated people with time on their hands who are willing to volunteer (and where libraries arguably are able to do the most good)

30th May 2012, 03:11 AM	#5
Fishstick Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,303	Originally Posted by commandlinegamer A topical story (I thought at first when I read a Twitter link to this, thieves had broken in during the night): http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/ma...stripped-books Our local library is still going. Trouble is, while I appreciate the need for it, I can't remember the last time I was in it. Probably 4-5 years ago. My city's invested in its libraries over the last decade, and it's a pleasure to use since I started visiting again a few years ago. Ebook/Media/magazine selections, incredibly fast and easy lending and returning by means of barcode scanning and conveyors. I love it, and I visit at least once a month.

30th May 2012, 04:09 AM	#8
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by Fishstick My city's invested in its libraries over the last decade, and it's a pleasure to use since I started visiting again a few years ago. Ebook/Media/magazine selections, incredibly fast and easy lending and returning by means of barcode scanning and conveyors. I love it, and I visit at least once a month. just how do they lend an ebook ? what is the penalty for late returns + do you like fishsticks ?

30th May 2012, 04:16 AM	#9
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,653	Originally Posted by JerryGarcia I've been hearing it for 20 years, and usage at my library just keeps going up. I really hope you're right. When I was unemployed 20 years ago, the library was my saviour.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

30th May 2012, 05:37 AM	#10
LibraryLady ...but not JUST a LibraryLady Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Building a house in the common ground Posts: 13,075	Originally Posted by Marduk just how do they lend an ebook ? what is the penalty for late returns + do you like fishsticks ? We use a program called Overdrive. You can look up the book on Overdrive, select your library, put in the card number, select the book and put it into your Kindle, Nook, or other folder for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks, the book simply disappears from your folder. There are no overdue fines. I liked fishsticks when I was a kid, but seem to have outgrown them. Originally Posted by lionking I really hope you're right. When I was unemployed 20 years ago, the library was my saviour. About 30% of my job is now helping people with job applications, creating email accounts to send job applications, and helping with resumes. And I work in the Humanities department. We are all working on this and occasionally, when someone comes in an announces they are starting work, it's a huge payoff.
	__________________ What would Hüsker Dü? I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. Mildred Loving

30th May 2012, 06:18 AM	#11
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by LibraryLady We use a program called Overdrive. You can look up the book on Overdrive, select your library, put in the card number, select the book and put it into your Kindle, Nook, or other folder for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks, the book simply disappears from your folder. There are no overdue fines. My library uses Overdrive for audiobooks, but the ebooks that I get usually come directly from Amazon. We also don't need to go to either site to search for those types, it is done directly through the main library site, although I can search the overdrive site on my phone the same way you describe. Comes up amongst the regular hard copy search returns.

30th May 2012, 06:19 AM	#12
DC dedicated aphilatelist Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Switzerland Posts: 21,654	yeah bookshops will diapear the day we have paperless offices
	__________________ AGW is a fact, including the A, face it

30th May 2012, 06:34 AM	#13
Tiktaalik Half True Scotsperson Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,988	The nearest library to me is moving into a big new building...its imminent demise doesn't seem too imminent.

30th May 2012, 06:39 AM	#14
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by DC yeah bookshops will diapear the day we have paperless offices Barnes and Noble has kept up with its diversification. I was just in there yesterday. They have the coffee bar, and sell the eBook readers. There is no reason to think book stores and libraries are on their way out, just because of the internet.

30th May 2012, 06:43 AM	#15
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by LibraryLady We use a program called Overdrive. You can look up the book on Overdrive, select your library, put in the card number, select the book and put it into your Kindle, Nook, or other folder for two weeks. At the end of the two weeks, the book simply disappears from your folder. There are no overdue fines.. Awesome, think I'll stick with Pirate Bay and Isohunt for now though, they let you have the books longer Originally Posted by LibraryLady I liked fishsticks when I was a kid, but seem to have outgrown them. . so you used to be a gay fish,

30th May 2012, 07:23 AM	#16
tomwaits Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 2,288	At my school, nobody uses the library. It's filled to the brim with reporters and law review journal archives but Lexis and Westlaw have made that all but obsolete. For a while, the school was making Lexis/WL only available to students after their first year was over so as to make them more comfortable in doing research if they didn't have access, but not anymore.

30th May 2012, 07:40 AM	#17
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	These institutions are going nowhere - Their purpose and resources will change over time but the basic concept of a knowledge center has remained constant through many 1000's of years and many civilizations. Regardless of what media knowledge is stored in - you still need to learn the art of accessing that information in a meaningful way. Librarians are extremely good in teaching you that art

30th May 2012, 07:46 AM	#18
tomwaits Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 2,288	Originally Posted by MG1962 These institutions are going nowhere - Their purpose and resources will change over time but the basic concept of a knowledge center has remained constant through many 1000's of years and many civilizations. Regardless of what media knowledge is stored in - you still need to learn the art of accessing that information in a meaningful way. Librarians are extremely good in teaching you that art I do accept, of course, that libraries in general are definitely helpful, at least for now. I still like the idea that a homeless person, with no internet or smartphone, can have access to the sum total of human knowledge if they so choose. It's just the format of that knowledge that will change.

30th May 2012, 07:56 AM	#19
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Originally Posted by tomwaits I do accept, of course, that libraries in general are definitely helpful, at least for now. I still like the idea that a homeless person, with no internet or smartphone, can have access to the sum total of human knowledge if they so choose. It's just the format of that knowledge that will change. I have no doubt you are right - But if we just look at the format changes before the electronic age we can see how adaptable the concepts of libraries are

30th May 2012, 07:59 AM	#20
The Don Philosopher Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Cymru Posts: 8,239	Originally Posted by LibraryLady We use a program called Overdrive. Book Returner Overdrive ?

30th May 2012, 08:06 AM	#21
Akhenaten Heretic Pharaoh Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Pi-Broadford, Australia Posts: 24,666	Originally Posted by The Don Book Returner Overdrive ? Nominised.
	__________________ Life is mostly Froth and Bubble - Adam Lindsay Gordon The Australasian Skeptics Forum

30th May 2012, 08:13 AM	#22
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,154	My library has both Amazon and Media Mail for ebook lending. I've used both. More Amazon since I have a kindle and it's less hassle. The Library in my town is changing into a multimedia space. They have two new buildings, large computer labs, lots and lots of DVDs and games to borrow. Ebooks we mentioned. Also meeting spaces for community groups, special event coordination with the schools, etc. And did I mention that they have these bound stacks of paper called "books"?
	__________________ Are you IN? Join the IN crowd now!

30th May 2012, 08:33 AM	#23
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,568	Originally Posted by MG1962 These institutions are going nowhere - Their purpose and resources will change over time but the basic concept of a knowledge center has remained constant through many 1000's of years and many civilizations. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:...versfront1.jpg ? Quote: Regardless of what media knowledge is stored in - you still need to learn the art of accessing that information in a meaningful way. Librarians are extremely good in teaching you that art Only relivant if you think we need a special building to store Librarians. Automated search tools are also getting better. For the time being libiaries will surivive simply because there is a lot of stuff that isn't digitalised. Longer term it is entirely possible they will retrete to being centeral archives.

30th May 2012, 08:35 AM	#24
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,568	Originally Posted by BenBurch And did I mention that they have these bound stacks of paper called "books"? Wierd concept. 2 of my local libiary systems appear to be phasing those out. One is trying to keep one copy of everything but the other didn't bother doing that.

31st May 2012, 05:46 AM	#25
Careyp74 Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Trevose, PA Posts: 3,407	Originally Posted by geni Wierd concept. 2 of my local libiary systems appear to be phasing those out. One is trying to keep one copy of everything but the other didn't bother doing that. I noticed though, there are a lot of relatively new books that I can get at the library and borrow, but if I wanted the eBook it isn't available in the library system, and I would have to buy it. This causes me to have to travel a lot around the county for certain books. I hope the hard copies don't die out. Either that, or allow a broader range of eBooks for borrowing.

31st May 2012, 09:41 AM	#26
tyr_13 Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Falconer, NY Posts: 9,662	The director of our local library, the James Prendergast Library, has been taking a lot of heat for, well, everything real and imagined by some 'old schoolers' and people who like to get riled up about everything. I get the feeling these people complain about any changes in Jamestown because it might make the city better and then they'd lose their hobby of whine, bitch and moan about how things suck in Jamestown. She was accused of destroying books. This is because she did cull something like 10% of the reference section. This was done because the books culled (not destroyed, just removed) were redundant and outdated. She did exactly what should be done with what was mostly medical texts from the 30's and 40's. She removed them and is working on getting updated books. She was accused of wanting to destroy the library because she's expanding the e-book program and computer access dramatically. This is a direct result of increased demand for these programs. The e-book program specifically is one of the most popular programs in the building. She was accused of wanting to turn the library into a coffee shop book store. This was because she suggested spinning of the entertainment 'light lit' section, which has been growing, off into a coffee house book store/library in one of the "wonderful buildings in Jamestown that sadly go unused." Of course she was also attacked for pointing out that Jamestown has wonderful buildings that are going unused, which is completely true. (Side note, that has made it possible for me to maybe actually have my first home purchase be a townhouse building or the old Viking's lodge as these historic downtown structures are priced less than many homes only a few blocks away.) It is actually a good idea supported by the users of that section of books that could make money for the library system. But it's different. Then there are the things that are made up whole cloth, like her wanting to destroy the painting in the children's section. As far as I've been able to tell, she has proposed nothing with that wall art. Some smaller libraries will probably die out. Hell, some larger ones that refuse to change might too. But libraries as a concept will still be around and still be useful, still provide knowledge, but have fewer physical books. A rose by any other name and all that.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

31st May 2012, 09:57 AM	#27
Malcolm Kirkpatrick Illuminator Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,136	What Tyr said, times 100. Libraries are not about ink-stained slabs of processed wood but about storing and sharing information. I like those ink-stained slabs of wood and don't own a Kindle or Nook, but I have to admit that if you want to take a wide variety of reading matter on a four day hike to the Mauna Loa summit, one Kindle beats 1000 pounds of paper, hands down. Libraries receive limited budgets. E-books are cheaper to buy and to store. Library buildings may follow newspaper printing presses and communism onto the ash heap of history.

31st May 2012, 11:11 AM	#28
Weak Kitten Graduate Poster Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lost and lonely...will you be my friend? Posts: 1,725	I really would hate to see our local library go. On top of all of the excellent books they also have a DVD section. Much to my joy they have a lot of the expensive boxed sets of educational shows that I've been thinking about buying but couldn't find the money. I now don't have to worry about my child never seeing "Connections"!
	__________________ A quick reminder to all participants that although incomprehensibility is not against the Membership Agreement, incivility is. Please try and remember this, and keep your exchanges polite and respectful. -arthwollipot

31st May 2012, 11:34 AM	#29
pipelineaudio Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wickenburg, AZ Posts: 3,670	Libraries are primarily IP, just like the music, software and film industries. They've always been mentioned as similarly doomed alongside the medical field in pessimistic "the coming technological dark age" discussions since at least the early 90's
	__________________ Can someone give me a better name for SLAG FAIRY?

31st May 2012, 12:03 PM	#30
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,590	Maybe I'm coming at this from a minority perspective--historical research--but the only thing I use libraries for is to access information that hasn't been digitized yet. I would much prefer to use searchable digitized copies, and would much prefer them to be accessible in my own home on my home computer. The only point to a library is to house things that haven't been transferred over yet, or to keep original copies of things, like a museum, just for their sentimental value and not their informational value (except for the information they contain in their physical form and not their words--one could potentially analyze paper or ink in an original document suspected of being fake, for example). Old tricks to make information accessible, like indexes and alphabetization, are obsolete. Traveling to a central repository used to be necessary when traveling was easier than reproducing information, but now the opposite is true. It's as silly to expect patrons to visit a central repository to get information nowadays, as to expect a doctor to spend his time half his day traveling on the way to house calls. Similarly, it's silly to drive somewhere to borrow a physical disk, when the technology is here and expanding, to rent anything immediately through one's home computer. I can see libraries hanging on for special circumstances, like the few interurban streetcars or long distance trains that still find a few routes profitable, or as a novelty experience like taking a horse-and-carriage ride, or as combination charity buildings for the homeless, but I don't see them surviving indefinitely as buildings you go to for information, when information is available anywhere. Where are all the passenger train stations, or the river packets, or the intercontinental ocean liners, now that we have cars and planes? Technology really does make some things obsolete.
Pup Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,590

31st May 2012, 10:56 PM	#31
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,295	Originally Posted by Pup Maybe I'm coming at this from a minority perspective--historical research--but the only thing I use libraries for is to access information that hasn't been digitized yet. I would much prefer to use searchable digitized copies, and would much prefer them to be accessible in my own home on my home computer. The only point to a library is to house things that haven't been transferred over yet, or to keep original copies of things, like a museum, just for their sentimental value and not their informational value (except for the information they contain in their physical form and not their words--one could potentially analyze paper or ink in an original document suspected of being fake, for example). Old tricks to make information accessible, like indexes and alphabetization, are obsolete. Traveling to a central repository used to be necessary when traveling was easier than reproducing information, but now the opposite is true. It's as silly to expect patrons to visit a central repository to get information nowadays, as to expect a doctor to spend his time half his day traveling on the way to house calls. Similarly, it's silly to drive somewhere to borrow a physical disk, when the technology is here and expanding, to rent anything immediately through one's home computer. I can see libraries hanging on for special circumstances, like the few interurban streetcars or long distance trains that still find a few routes profitable, or as a novelty experience like taking a horse-and-carriage ride, or as combination charity buildings for the homeless, but I don't see them surviving indefinitely as buildings you go to for information, when information is available anywhere. Where are all the passenger train stations, or the river packets, or the intercontinental ocean liners, now that we have cars and planes? Technology really does make some things obsolete. You are joking there, yes? Because the alternative is that you are profoundly ignorant, and should heard down to your local Library to learn about it.
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi

31st May 2012, 11:45 PM	#32
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480	Libraries won't go, but they will change. Individual library services will sadly close, but there will still be a need for community based information and entertainment gateways.
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480

31st May 2012, 11:46 PM	#33
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480	Originally Posted by Pup Where are all the passenger train stations, or the river packets, or the intercontinental ocean liners, now that we have cars and planes? Technology really does make some things obsolete. the fact that you live in a part of the world too backwards to have a decent public transport infrastructure doesn't mean such a thing is obsolete.
Lamuella Master Poster Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,480

31st May 2012, 11:54 PM	#34
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,369	Originally Posted by Lamuella Libraries won't go, but they will change. Individual library services will sadly close, but there will still be a need for community based information and entertainment gateways. Indeed. I think our local library's "mobile library service" (a library on wheels visiting smaller communities in the area) is rumoured to be shutting down. But the main library recently had a big refurbishment and now includes loads of computer stations for public use, which are usually all being used whenever I go in.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

1st June 2012, 02:07 AM	#35
tomwaits Master Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago, IL, USA Posts: 2,288	Before I moved to the city, I used to take the train every day to and from work. Seeing all the Amtrak passengers mulling around Union Station would also indicate passenger trains are not dead, but whether Amtrak is actually cost effective is sort of controversial.