It Really is "Turtles all the Way Down".

Gord_in_Toronto · 4th June 2012, 07:33 PM

Sometime in the my dim distant past, before the days of the Internet when paper still ruled, I remember reading an article in ISTR a science fiction magazine that claimed the the Universe was a Black Hole because it was of the right density to be one -- the size of a black hole been dependent on its mass and all that.

Then today I read:

Every black hole contains a new universe

By Nikodem Poplawski ++ Published May 17, 2012 ++ Inside Science News Service

Quote:

Our universe may exist inside a black hole. This may sound strange, but it could actually be the best explanation of how the universe began, and what we observe today. It's a theory that has been explored over the past few decades by a small group of physicists including myself.

Is this TOE? Does it really link quantum-sized world with the Cosmos?

Double

Read the rest at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...ntcmp=obinsite

geni · 4th June 2012, 07:36 PM

People were playing with this back in the 90s. On the basis that your source is fox news rather than any popular science book written in the last 20 years I'm kinda worried.

not_so_new · 4th June 2012, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by geni

People were playing with this back in the 90s. On the basis that your source is fox news rather than any popular science book written in the last 20 years I'm kinda worried.

Maybe this will help with the legitimacy of the source?

http://phys.org/news/2012-05-black-h...-solution.html

I read this last week when it came out. Pretty interesting but I don't think it's really a new idea.

geni · 4th June 2012, 08:24 PM

Originally Posted by not_so_new

Maybe this will help with the legitimacy of the source?

http://phys.org/news/2012-05-black-h...-solution.html

"Ads by Google

Online psychic readings - Get your accurate psychic reading Phone today: 10 mins only £2.90 - www.theCircle.com/online"

I hate science by press release.

Nowhere Man · 4th June 2012, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Sometime in the my dim distant past, before the days of the Internet when paper still ruled, I remember reading an article in ISTR a science fiction magazine that claimed the the Universe was a Black Hole because it was of the right density to be one -- the size of a black hole been dependent on its mass and all that.

Isaac Asimov's The Collapsing Universe (1977, and probably quite out of date by now) ends with such a speculation.

Fred

MG1962 · 4th June 2012, 08:58 PM

Recent observational evidence suggesting the universe is in fact accelerating in its expansion might just put the black hole theory back in the game

Orphia Nay · 5th June 2012, 03:08 AM

So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them?

Halfcentaur · 5th June 2012, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them?

The Turtle.

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th June 2012, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them?

It probably loops around in an infinite regression such that no universe is not inside another one. Still looking for the First Cause though.

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th June 2012, 05:45 AM

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man

Isaac Asimov's The Collapsing Universe (1977, and probably quite out of date by now) ends with such a speculation.

Fred

Thanks Fred. That's a good possibility.

But I don't remember reading this book and quick Google does not show it based on any of his columns.

LarianLeQuella · 5th June 2012, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

Still looking for the First Cause though.

Sorry, that was me. Had a really big burrito and, well, refried beans do that to most anyone...

Halfcentaur · 5th June 2012, 06:53 AM

What would this mean for cosmic drift and the universe flying apart into a cold death? Would there be any indication of scale or size in terms we can relate to?

As a kid I used to be fascinated with the idea that there were infinitely regressing and progressing universes both inside and outside of each other, a never ending babushka/matryoshka doll in both directions.

Halfcentaur · 5th June 2012, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them?

The babushka-verse©?

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th June 2012, 06:59 AM

Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella

Sorry, that was me. Had a really big burrito and, well, refried beans do that to most anyone...

http://www.sixthsphere.com/forum/ima...ies/6S_479.gif

Some religions have their God breathing life into the Universe. Your approach seems to just as valid.

Hecubas · 5th June 2012, 07:54 AM

A fractal universe... just the thought made my stomach churn from that old existential feeling.

Halfcentaur · 5th June 2012, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by Hecubas

A fractal universe... just the thought made my stomach churn from that old existential feeling.

There seems to be nowhere you can go to get away from these fractals. Branching bastards!

derchin · 5th June 2012, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Our universe may exist inside a black hole. This may sound strange, but it could actually be the best explanation of how the universe began, and what we observe today. It's a theory that has been explored over the past few decades by a small group of physicists...

http://www.insidescience.org/?q=cont...w-universe/566

Kid Eager · 5th June 2012, 03:44 PM

Intriguing article. I know nowhere near enough to determine whether it's credible though...

The Man · 5th June 2012, 04:24 PM

Wait, so every black hole in our universe has another universe inside it and our universe is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a…..

So its black holes all the way down now instead of turtles (heck at least the turtles were kind of a cute image).

Quote:

It also appears as a remedy to several major problems of current theory of gravity and cosmology. Physicists still need to combine the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory fully with quantum mechanics into a quantum theory of gravity.

Ah, so it hasn’t apparently remedied that major problem of the “current theory of gravity and cosmology”. Much like the cart and the horse it seems they are putting the black hole before the universe (well inside another universe with a black hole before that inside another universe with a black hole…) and thinking they might be winning the race before even jumping that first big hurdle (combine the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory fully with quantum mechanics into a quantum theory of gravity). Heck them zany Physicists need something to do anyway so why not just come up with ‘black holes all the way down’ and let the rest of them zany Physicists figure out how it fundamentally works.

gnome · 5th June 2012, 04:38 PM

Nah, not an infinite regression. Just three. The black holes inside the black holes inside the black holes don't have anything in them.

derchin · 5th June 2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Nah, not an infinite regression. Just three. The black holes inside the black holes inside the black holes don't have anything in them.

How so?

The Man · 5th June 2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by gnome

Nah, not an infinite regression. Just three. The black holes inside the black holes inside the black holes don't have anything in them.

Why three? Just because that’s how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? (you know the owl was the wisest). Without some special pleading those last terminal layers (nothing inside the black hole below and no black hole around the universe above) are going to need some real fundamental differences in the quantum gravity that explains their formation. Oops there's that big first hurdle again.

gnome · 5th June 2012, 05:16 PM

It is absolutely special pleading, in that I made it up entirely.

Halfcentaur · 5th June 2012, 05:48 PM

This thread already existed earlier today and last evening or I have somehow skipped through a sister black hole on my way back from the bat'leth tournament. Which one of you is my wife again?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237347

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th June 2012, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

This thread already existed earlier today and last evening or I have somehow skipped through a sister black hole on my way back from the bat'leth tournament. Which one of you is my wife again?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237347

I have requested they be merged.

Gord

derchin · 5th June 2012, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Halfcentaur

This thread already existed earlier today and last evening or I have somehow skipped through a sister black hole on my way back from the bat'leth tournament. Which one of you is my wife again?

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237347

Oh wow...

Jeff Corey · 5th June 2012, 06:36 PM

"I have requested they be merged.

Gord "

Then Spock will get to meet Evil Spock With A Beard and go to Quark's for a few Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters. Rowdy Starship Troopers start a brawl and are calmed down by Jame Retief in a diplomatic fashion. John Carter and his trusty Thoat, Freddy, are asking if Thuvia is still tending bar during Friday Happy Week.

Gord_in_Toronto · 5th June 2012, 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Jeff Corey

"I have requested they be merged.

Gord "

Then Spock will get to meet Evil Spock With A Beard and go to Quark's for a few Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters. Rowdy Starship Troopers start a brawl and are calmed down by Jame Retief in a diplomatic fashion. John Carter and his trusty Thoat, Freddy, are asking if Thuvia is still tending bar during Friday Happy Week.

Hang on a sec while I get out my sonic screwdriver.

Molinaro · 5th June 2012, 09:16 PM

Pretty sure I've seen Sol shoot down this idea with a very simple argument based on observations which contradict the possibility.

Jeff Corey · 5th June 2012, 09:59 PM

How was that falsified?
Which prediction?
Which observation?

boooeee · 5th June 2012, 10:09 PM

I didn't know High Times had a science column.

The Man · 6th June 2012, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by boooeee

I didn't know High Times had a science column.

Well, like Playboy, don't just look at the pictures and you just might find some science (probably more in High Times than Playboy though).

Duffy Moon · 6th June 2012, 01:38 AM

Originally Posted by boooeee

I didn't know High Times had a science column.

Like, what if the universe, man, was like one of an infinite number and they were inside black holes, but inside each other too.

And what if, it stopped expanding and collapsed and.........

...dude, what was I just talking about?

The Man · 6th June 2012, 03:15 AM

I don't know dude but that was like so excrementally phantasmagorically deep. You should like do that thing where you know you like write stuff down and then people like read it. Dude that would be so assume. You could bifurcate the disestablishment and recoflabulate it to a more incohesive, sorry, dicocohesive embellishment. You know what I'm saying!! Ok, who's got the liter?

OnlyTellsTruths · 6th June 2012, 03:54 AM

Originally Posted by Nowhere Man

Isaac Asimov's The Collapsing Universe (1977, and probably quite out of date by now) ends with such a speculation.

Fred

Didn't Hawkings' 1993 book "Black Holes and The Baby Universes" deal with this as well?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_H...d_Other_Essays

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 07:11 AM

Baby universes don't need black holes to hide in. They can be spawned by random quantum fluctuations, breaking off from the underlying Void into their own private spacetimes.

The black hole speculation requires that a universe must already exist, to make the black holes the baby ones are born in. This is madness. How did the first one come about? If you imagine an infinite regression, then how did the entire infinite regression come about? What kind of hole was IT born in?

Therein lies madness, and then religion.

Cuddles · 6th June 2012, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by geni

I hate science by press release.

How about science by science. Just because this article is the first you've heard of it doesn't mean the same is true for everyone else. This is absolutely real science. It may well be wrong, but that's a very different matter.

Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto

It probably loops around in an infinite regression such that no universe is not inside another one. Still looking for the First Cause though.

Indeed. I doubt we'll ever get an answer that will settle that part. Either you need to get something from nothing, or it's infinite turtles. Even if we manage to come up with what seems to be a definitive answer, it's just not going to satisfy most people since neither of those options really seem to make sense from a human-scale perspective.

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Cuddles

Indeed. I doubt we'll ever get an answer that will settle that part. Either you need to get something from nothing, or it's infinite turtles. Even if we manage to come up with what seems to be a definitive answer, it's just not going to satisfy most people since neither of those options really seem to make sense from a human-scale perspective.

We don't need to get something from nothing if 'nothing' is a bogus concept to begin with. All that's really required is a fundamental, timeless Void (the closest possible 'something' to the contradictory nothingness), and you've got your bottom turtle. Then all you need is quantum mechanics, which apparently thrives in a Void. Both Void and mechanics were noticed decades ago, and have been successfully toyed with since.

Skeptic Ginger · 6th June 2012, 08:17 AM

Black holes are finite in size, they have event horizons and at least from the outside would appear to have a middle. Also, don't they collapse inward, not expand outward?

[The author of this post admits having not yet read the articles and to only skimming the other thread posts.

]

Toontown · 6th June 2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger

Black holes are finite in size, they have event horizons and at least from the outside would appear to have a middle. Also, don't they collapse inward, not expand outward?

[The author of this post admits having not yet read the articles and to only skimming the other thread posts.

]

The event horizon of a black hole does expand as the black hole consumes mass and becomes more massive. But the contents of the hole, the mass, is squinched down to a point.

They're hard-pulling bastards, but I very seriously doubt they're universes.

4th June 2012, 07:33 PM	#1
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,411	It Really is "Turtles all the Way Down". Sometime in the my dim distant past, before the days of the Internet when paper still ruled, I remember reading an article in ISTR a science fiction magazine that claimed the the Universe was a Black Hole because it was of the right density to be one -- the size of a black hole been dependent on its mass and all that. Then today I read: Every black hole contains a new universe By Nikodem Poplawski ++ Published May 17, 2012 ++ Inside Science News Service Quote: Our universe may exist inside a black hole. This may sound strange, but it could actually be the best explanation of how the universe began, and what we observe today. It's a theory that has been explored over the past few decades by a small group of physicists including myself. Is this TOE? Does it really link quantum-sized world with the Cosmos? Double Read the rest at: http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/...ntcmp=obinsite
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

4th June 2012, 08:30 PM	#5
Nowhere Man Scholar Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 108	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Sometime in the my dim distant past, before the days of the Internet when paper still ruled, I remember reading an article in ISTR a science fiction magazine that claimed the the Universe was a Black Hole because it was of the right density to be one -- the size of a black hole been dependent on its mass and all that. Isaac Asimov's The Collapsing Universe (1977, and probably quite out of date by now) ends with such a speculation. Fred
Nowhere Man Scholar Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 108

5th June 2012, 03:08 AM	#7
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,349	So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them?
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

5th June 2012, 03:58 AM	#8
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them? The Turtle.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937

5th June 2012, 05:40 AM	#9
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,411	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them? It probably loops around in an infinite regression such that no universe is not inside another one. Still looking for the First Cause though.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

4th June 2012, 07:36 PM	#2
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,561	People were playing with this back in the 90s. On the basis that your source is fox news rather than any popular science book written in the last 20 years I'm kinda worried.

4th June 2012, 08:07 PM	#3
not_so_new Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,544	Originally Posted by geni People were playing with this back in the 90s. On the basis that your source is fox news rather than any popular science book written in the last 20 years I'm kinda worried. Maybe this will help with the legitimacy of the source? http://phys.org/news/2012-05-black-h...-solution.html I read this last week when it came out. Pretty interesting but I don't think it's really a new idea.

4th June 2012, 08:24 PM	#4
geni Anti-homeopathy illuminati member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: UK Posts: 26,561	Originally Posted by not_so_new Maybe this will help with the legitimacy of the source? http://phys.org/news/2012-05-black-h...-solution.html "Ads by Google Online psychic readings - Get your accurate psychic reading Phone today: 10 mins only £2.90 - www.theCircle.com/online" I hate science by press release.

4th June 2012, 08:58 PM	#6
MG1962 Guest Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kansas (Australia) Posts: 14,750	Recent observational evidence suggesting the universe is in fact accelerating in its expansion might just put the black hole theory back in the game

5th June 2012, 05:45 AM	#10
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,411	Originally Posted by Nowhere Man Isaac Asimov's The Collapsing Universe (1977, and probably quite out of date by now) ends with such a speculation. Fred Thanks Fred. That's a good possibility. But I don't remember reading this book and quick Google does not show it based on any of his columns.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

5th June 2012, 05:47 AM	#11
LarianLeQuella Elf Wino Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun Posts: 1,995	Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto Still looking for the First Cause though. Sorry, that was me. Had a really big burrito and, well, refried beans do that to most anyone...
	__________________ My crappy blog that no one should be forced to read. Ever... But I like traffic and comments, so have at it if you please. Larian LeQuella Armyn ab Treanid

5th June 2012, 06:53 AM	#12
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937	What would this mean for cosmic drift and the universe flying apart into a cold death? Would there be any indication of scale or size in terms we can relate to? As a kid I used to be fascinated with the idea that there were infinitely regressing and progressing universes both inside and outside of each other, a never ending babushka/matryoshka doll in both directions.
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937

5th June 2012, 06:57 AM	#13
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay So, if the universe is in a black hole, what do we call the thing that has all the black holes with universes in them? The babushka-verse©?
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937	Last edited by Halfcentaur; 5th June 2012 at 07:20 AM.

5th June 2012, 06:59 AM	#14
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,411	Originally Posted by LarianLeQuella Sorry, that was me. Had a really big burrito and, well, refried beans do that to most anyone... http://www.sixthsphere.com/forum/ima...ies/6S_479.gif Some religions have their God breathing life into the Universe. Your approach seems to just as valid.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

5th June 2012, 07:54 AM	#15
Hecubas Thinker Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 207	A fractal universe... just the thought made my stomach churn from that old existential feeling.
Hecubas Thinker Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 207

5th June 2012, 08:44 AM	#16
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937	Originally Posted by Hecubas A fractal universe... just the thought made my stomach churn from that old existential feeling. There seems to be nowhere you can go to get away from these fractals. Branching bastards!
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937

5th June 2012, 03:16 PM	#17
derchin Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Here Posts: 324	Every Black Hole Could Contain a New Universe Quote: Our universe may exist inside a black hole. This may sound strange, but it could actually be the best explanation of how the universe began, and what we observe today. It's a theory that has been explored over the past few decades by a small group of physicists... http://www.insidescience.org/?q=cont...w-universe/566
	__________________ "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall in an open sewer and die." —Mel Brooks

5th June 2012, 03:44 PM	#18
Kid Eager Illuminator Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Australia Posts: 3,479	Intriguing article. I know nowhere near enough to determine whether it's credible though...
	__________________ What do Narwhals, Magnets and Apollo 13 have in common? Think about it....

5th June 2012, 04:24 PM	#19
The Man Scourge, of the supernatural Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 7,517	Black Holes all the way down (who would have guessed). Wait, so every black hole in our universe has another universe inside it and our universe is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a black hole of some other universe that is inside a….. So its black holes all the way down now instead of turtles (heck at least the turtles were kind of a cute image). Quote: It also appears as a remedy to several major problems of current theory of gravity and cosmology. Physicists still need to combine the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory fully with quantum mechanics into a quantum theory of gravity. Ah, so it hasn’t apparently remedied that major problem of the “current theory of gravity and cosmology”. Much like the cart and the horse it seems they are putting the black hole before the universe (well inside another universe with a black hole before that inside another universe with a black hole…) and thinking they might be winning the race before even jumping that first big hurdle (combine the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory fully with quantum mechanics into a quantum theory of gravity). Heck them zany Physicists need something to do anyway so why not just come up with ‘black holes all the way down’ and let the rest of them zany Physicists figure out how it fundamentally works.
	__________________ "Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius") Last edited by The Man; 5th June 2012 at 04:28 PM. Reason: typos

5th June 2012, 04:38 PM	#20
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	Nah, not an infinite regression. Just three. The black holes inside the black holes inside the black holes don't have anything in them.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	__________________

5th June 2012, 04:44 PM	#21
derchin Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Here Posts: 324	Originally Posted by gnome Nah, not an infinite regression. Just three. The black holes inside the black holes inside the black holes don't have anything in them. How so?
	__________________ "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall in an open sewer and die." —Mel Brooks

5th June 2012, 04:58 PM	#22
The Man Scourge, of the supernatural Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 7,517	Originally Posted by gnome Nah, not an infinite regression. Just three. The black holes inside the black holes inside the black holes don't have anything in them. Why three? Just because that’s how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop? (you know the owl was the wisest). Without some special pleading those last terminal layers (nothing inside the black hole below and no black hole around the universe above) are going to need some real fundamental differences in the quantum gravity that explains their formation. Oops there's that big first hurdle again.
	__________________ "Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius")

5th June 2012, 05:16 PM	#23
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	It is absolutely special pleading, in that I made it up entirely.
gnome Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 9,869	__________________

5th June 2012, 05:48 PM	#24
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937	This thread already existed earlier today and last evening or I have somehow skipped through a sister black hole on my way back from the bat'leth tournament. Which one of you is my wife again? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237347
Halfcentaur Philosopher Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 5,937

5th June 2012, 06:16 PM	#25
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,411	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur This thread already existed earlier today and last evening or I have somehow skipped through a sister black hole on my way back from the bat'leth tournament. Which one of you is my wife again? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237347 I have requested they be merged. Gord
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

5th June 2012, 06:25 PM	#26
derchin Critical Thinker Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Here Posts: 324	Originally Posted by Halfcentaur This thread already existed earlier today and last evening or I have somehow skipped through a sister black hole on my way back from the bat'leth tournament. Which one of you is my wife again? http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=237347 Oh wow...
	__________________ "Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you fall in an open sewer and die." —Mel Brooks

5th June 2012, 06:36 PM	#27
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	"I have requested they be merged. Gord " Then Spock will get to meet Evil Spock With A Beard and go to Quark's for a few Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters. Rowdy Starship Troopers start a brawl and are calmed down by Jame Retief in a diplomatic fashion. John Carter and his trusty Thoat, Freddy, are asking if Thuvia is still tending bar during Friday Happy Week.
	Last edited by Jeff Corey; 5th June 2012 at 06:39 PM.

5th June 2012, 09:12 PM	#28
Gord_in_Toronto Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 13,411	Originally Posted by Jeff Corey "I have requested they be merged. Gord " Then Spock will get to meet Evil Spock With A Beard and go to Quark's for a few Pan-Galactic Gargle Blasters. Rowdy Starship Troopers start a brawl and are calmed down by Jame Retief in a diplomatic fashion. John Carter and his trusty Thoat, Freddy, are asking if Thuvia is still tending bar during Friday Happy Week. Hang on a sec while I get out my sonic screwdriver.
	__________________ "Reality is what's left when you cease to believe." Philip K. Dick

5th June 2012, 09:16 PM	#29
Molinaro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 3,027	Pretty sure I've seen Sol shoot down this idea with a very simple argument based on observations which contradict the possibility.
	__________________ 100% Cannuck!

5th June 2012, 09:59 PM	#30
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	How was that falsified? Which prediction? Which observation?

5th June 2012, 10:09 PM	#31
boooeee Dart Fener Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Lando System Posts: 2,394	I didn't know High Times had a science column.
	__________________ my nerdy sports blog: betting market analytics

6th June 2012, 12:48 AM	#32
The Man Scourge, of the supernatural Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 7,517	Originally Posted by boooeee I didn't know High Times had a science column. Well, like Playboy, don't just look at the pictures and you just might find some science (probably more in High Times than Playboy though).
	__________________ "Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius")

6th June 2012, 01:38 AM	#33
Duffy Moon Graduate Poster Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Coventry, UK Posts: 1,592	Originally Posted by boooeee I didn't know High Times had a science column. Like, what if the universe, man, was like one of an infinite number and they were inside black holes, but inside each other too. And what if, it stopped expanding and collapsed and......... ...dude, what was I just talking about?

6th June 2012, 03:15 AM	#34
The Man Scourge, of the supernatural Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Poughkeepsie, NY Posts: 7,517	I don't know dude but that was like so excrementally phantasmagorically deep. You should like do that thing where you know you like write stuff down and then people like read it. Dude that would be so assume. You could bifurcate the disestablishment and recoflabulate it to a more incohesive, sorry, dicocohesive embellishment. You know what I'm saying!! Ok, who's got the liter?
	__________________ "Not a seat but a springboard” (1942 Winston Churchill) "As he who, seeking asses, found a kingdom" (1671 Milton "Paradise Regained") "for it seem'd A void was made in nature, all her bonds Crack'd; and I saw the flaring atom-streams And torrents of her myriad universe, Ruining along the illimitable inane, Fly on to clash together again, and make Another and another frame of things For ever." (1868 Tennyson "Lucretius")

6th June 2012, 03:54 AM	#35
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,786	Originally Posted by Nowhere Man Isaac Asimov's The Collapsing Universe (1977, and probably quite out of date by now) ends with such a speculation. Fred Didn't Hawkings' 1993 book "Black Holes and The Baby Universes" deal with this as well? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_H...d_Other_Essays
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,786	__________________ ________________________