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Elypsis44 · 18th June 2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by anduin

I just wanted to quickly comment on this article. A retired geologist seems intent on proving the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Instead of any evidence we get a chain of far-fetched assumptions.

There were some constructions in the area where there was olive production. This is evidence that Sodom and Gomorrah MAY have existed in this area.
There were earthquakes in the area, so there MAY have been a massively huge earthquake.
This massive earthquake, if it happened, MAY have been able to liquefy the ground.
If all of the above might have happened, the earthquake MAY have also carried away the buildings.

Wishful thinking with access to a Cambridge lab.

Speaking of wishful thinking (from an Oxford guy) and MAY, I saw this yesterday:

John the Baptist's Bones Possibly Discovered in Bulgaria

Small bone pieces MAY belong to a male (how they arrived at that is unknown), MAY have lived in the region where John the Baptist MAY have also lived. Then at the end of the article, this nugget:

Quote:

"Whether that person is John the Baptist is a question that we cannot yet definitely answer and probably never will," the scientist added.

Ah, the logic of religious folks.

Belz... · 18th June 2012, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

The solution is that these words were recorded by different persons---perhaps these words collectively will give us the whole picture.

Actually, that's the problem. Collectively, they contradict one another. They should've stuck with just one book.

Belz... · 18th June 2012, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

I believe that anyone who does not want to go to heaven chooses to go to hell.

And this illustrates perfectly why believers are generally more cruel than unbelievers. You WANT us to suffer for no good reason other than disagreement.

Personally, I find both alternatives, Heaven and Hell, repulsive. We need a third party.

Marduk · 18th June 2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

Personally, I find both alternatives, Heaven and Hell, repulsive. We need a third party.

Disco

Belz... · 18th June 2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

The message has and is always very simple as Jesus put it---do to others as you would they do to you is the rule of all societies—

--except when god commands you to kill men, women and children to glorify him.

Belz... · 18th June 2012, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Disco

****, I'd choose an afterlife with non-stop disco over Heaven any day.

Lowpro · 18th June 2012, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by Belz...

--except when god commands you to kill men, women and children to glorify him.

But after He had a son, something changed in Him!

Elypsis44 · 18th June 2012, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Lowpro

But after He had a son, something changed in Him!

Well, He had Himself. Sorta. Wait.

Does that mean Mary was impregnated by her son?

Marduk · 18th June 2012, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by Lowpro

But after He had a son, something changed in Him!

Mary threatened to withold visitation unless he attended anger management classes

Originally Posted by Elypsis44

Does that mean Mary was impregnated by her son?

no, it was the ghost of her unborn son, lots of ghosts around in those days, people still believed in them then

HansMustermann · 18th June 2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
How does WW -find- that invisible plane when she's parked it?
There've been a few transparent planes, with see-through covering..
An early Fokker Eindecker, for one, but the structure is visible.
ISTR WW's plane was totally transparent.. all the bits inside also.

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/holytrinity.html

"The Holy Trinity is one of the great mysteries of the Orthodox Faith. With our finite and limited minds, we are unable to comprehend the Holy Trinity at all, and yet with our hearts, we can believe in the truth of the this mystery."

Seems to me like it would apply to Wonder Woman's airplane too. With our finite and limited minds, we can't understand how the spoon is it not just transparent, but apparently has a refraction index of 1 or very near, since it doesn't distort anything you see through it either. Or indeed, how the heck she finds it. But we must have faith that she does

I Ratant · 18th June 2012, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

...

Perhaps people do not know what love is?

.
I wanna know what love is
I want you to tell me.

I Ratant · 18th June 2012, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

I believe that anyone who does not want to go to heaven chooses to go to hell.
To go to heaven one must obey the commands of Yahweh the God of Israel as the only God.

.
And yet by the sheer number of Hindus which outnumber christians over the eons, there'll be more of them in Hell.
All because of some really poor PR by Sky Daddy.

ddt · 18th June 2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

no, it was the ghost of her unborn son, lots of ghosts around in those days, people still believed in them then

Mary herself was also a babe that was not of this world. I mean, John the Baptist was so glad to see her that he jumped up in the womb.

I Ratant · 18th June 2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

Is it not what I claim as representative of what I believe?
There are many people who claim attributes with regards to their god---now it remains how many gods are there—let the true God reveal himself will be the only test.

.
Sadly, the "proof" comes after death.
No one testifies after death.

ddt · 18th June 2012, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
I wanna know what love is
I want you to tell me.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

Lowpro · 18th June 2012, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by HansMustermann

http://www.orthodox.net/articles/holytrinity.html

"The Holy Trinity is one of the great mysteries of the Orthodox Faith. With our finite and limited minds, we are unable to comprehend the Holy Trinity at all, and yet with our hearts, we can believe in the truth of the this mystery."

Seems to me like it would apply to Wonder Woman's airplane too. With our finite and limited minds, we can't understand how the spoon is it not just transparent, but apparently has a refraction index of 1 or very near, since it doesn't distort anything you see through it either. Or indeed, how the heck she finds it. But we must have faith that she does

I've always found TJ's comments on the trinity to be sublime:

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”
― Thomas Jefferson

I Ratant · 18th June 2012, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by ddt

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

.
Drat!
My computer isn't recognizing anything like that anymore.

tsig · 18th June 2012, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by Elypsis44

Well, He had Himself. Sorta. Wait.

Does that mean Mary was impregnated by her son?

Since Jesus is god, yes. She was impregnated by god to give birth to god so that he could sacrifice himself to himself thereby justifying himself to forgive mankind it's sins.

tsig · 18th June 2012, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by ddt

Mary herself was also a babe that was not of this world. I mean, John the Baptist was so glad to see her that he jumped up in the womb.

You mean it was a premature boner?

ddt · 18th June 2012, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by tsig

You mean it was a premature boner?

Something like that, yes. That whole passage sounds quite kinky. That eminent historian Luke wrote it, so it must be true according to Sir William Ramsay Geisler. Judge for yourself, Luke 1:39-42

Quote:

39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: Oh my God, Oh my God, Jesus, I come!

What is that, a threesome or a foursome or what?

tsig · 18th June 2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by ddt

Something like that, yes. That whole passage sounds quite kinky. That eminent historian Luke wrote it, so it must be true according to Sir William Ramsay Geisler. Judge for yourself, Luke 1:39-42

What is that, a threesome or a foursome or what?

So John and Jesus were special friends before birth.

Maybe the baptism was really a golden shower, it seems there's an erotic version of the NT just waiting to be written.

I Ratant · 18th June 2012, 06:06 PM

Don't get vile.
The bleevers have enough trouble "explaining" the stories as it is.

OntarioSquatch · 18th June 2012, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
I wanna know what love is
I want you to tell me.

An intense feeling of deep affection?

I Ratant · 18th June 2012, 07:12 PM

ddt actually got it..
That Foreigner video was one of the last I got off MTV before they went heavy-metal/junk.

Paul Bethke · 19th June 2012, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by I Ratant

.
I wanna know what love is
I want you to tell me.

The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you.
The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man.

It stated off with a lie.

So one aspect of love is never to lie.
Another facet of love is not to steal.
Again another feature of love is not to commit adultery—adultery being the violation of the marriage covenant.
Yet again love teaches children to obey their parents—love teaches parents to discipline their children by setting an example.

Love requires that we do not murder—so do not hate someone for no reason.
Love disciplines a person not to covet—to covet is to devise a way to deprive another of their possessions—eg. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife or his possessions.

So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other.

Because this has never been the case –God has decreed judgement on humanity, and his intension is to get mankind to alter their ways (repent).

To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents.
Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love.

The Bible highlights where man has failed to love.

dafydd · 19th June 2012, 01:51 AM

Originally Posted by jond

I think it starts with blinding James Randi, then moves on to withering the grass of the football pitch during the world cup.

More bollocks. Try reality for a change.

dafydd · 19th June 2012, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

The Bible highlights where man has failed to love.

But the bible is a load of crap written by primitive men. We have moved on since then. You haven't.

HansMustermann · 19th June 2012, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lowpro

I've always found TJ's comments on the trinity to be sublime:

"Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.”
― Thomas Jefferson

Aye, TJ is great.

But yeah, he's right. And I always found it... strange how basically you could apply Gresham's law ("Bad money drives out good") to religion.

The oldest religions, granted, were still wishful thinking, but were simple to understand and indeed flowing from natural tendencies of the brain. Animism for example flows naturally from the human tendency to anthropomorphise. (And arguably not just humans. Your cat or dog accept you as the alpha -- although for cats that means very little -- because they can see you as weird big cat or dog.) It's very easy to comprehend how a bear would have some mental processes, or a "spirit", and it's a distinct and clear idea.

But from there it goes increasingly less logical with every iteration, and religions more clearly born out of the deranged mind of schizophrenic idiots, stuff that doesn't even make sense unless you're equally schizophrenic, drives out the less deranged ones.

It's not even a Christian innovation.

Long before there was a Jesus or even the OT, you had to believe that the moon you see above as clearly a ball that doesn't do anything, is also the god Sin, who's anthropomorphic and does lots of stuff. Or that the sky above which you see as just a blue hemisphere, is also a cow, i.e., the deity Nut of Egypt.

And really, it goes downhill all the way to Christianity and it's "trinity" and other nonsense, supplanting some deities which at least made SOME sense.

It's as if the more nonsensical the thing one is asked to believe, the harder their cognitive dissonance will make them fight to defend that nonsense. And the harder they'll shove it down everyone else's throat.

I'm pretty much getting the idea if you could go back in time and found the religion of the pink invisible flying Man-Bear-Pig, who's in the sky AND under the ground at the same time, and it's a great mystery whether he's half man and half bear-pig or half man-bear and half pig, it would probably mop the floor with every other religion

Craig B · 19th June 2012, 02:48 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

I believe that anyone who does not want to go to heaven chooses to go to hell.
To go to heaven one must obey the commands of Yahweh the God of Israel as the only God.

Does that mean that a person who believes in another god, or that there is no god, and no hell, has "chosen" to go to hell? How can I choose to go to hell, or Cloud Cuckoo Land? I don't believe these places exist. And even if hell does exist and I end up there, how can it possibly be asserted that I've "chosen" to go there? What revolting language you use!

Back in the middle ages people were tortured by the inquisition for disbelieving the doctrines of the dominant Church. Did that mean they "chose" to have their toenails pulled out? What a vile idea!

Belz... · 19th June 2012, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you.

That's not the concept of love. That's the concept of compassion.

Quote:

The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man.

And the Lord of the Rings tells of the Dark Lord Sauron. So ?

Quote:

It stated off with a lie.

Yes, a lie by God that eating the fruit would result in death.

Quote:

So one aspect of love is never to lie.

This does not follow.

Quote:

Another facet of love is not to steal.

What the hell does that have to do with love ?

Quote:

So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other.

You've just made up another version of the theory of everything. No, love is none of these things.

Quote:

To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents.

He's a damn glory whore. Pray to me and I'll forgive anything, no matter what.

Quote:

Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love.

No. That is a thoughtcrime and that is cruel. Your god is cruel.

Quote:

The Bible highlights where man has failed to love.

If by "failed to love" you mean "done something against the will of god" is seems we were right in doing so.

HansMustermann · 19th June 2012, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you.
The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man.

It stated off with a lie.

So one aspect of love is never to lie.
Another facet of love is not to steal.
Again another feature of love is not to commit adultery—adultery being the violation of the marriage covenant.
Yet again love teaches children to obey their parents—love teaches parents to discipline their children by setting an example.

Love requires that we do not murder—so do not hate someone for no reason.
Love disciplines a person not to covet—to covet is to devise a way to deprive another of their possessions—eg. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife or his possessions.

So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other.

Because this has never been the case –God has decreed judgement on humanity, and his intension is to get mankind to alter their ways (repent).

To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents.
Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love.

The Bible highlights where man has failed to love.

No, it doesn't work that way. You can't just string random words to make word X mean whatever unrelated BS meaning Y you mean. E.g., love to mean brown nosing your imaginary friend.

Unless you're going for dadaism, I suppose.

I mean, geeze, watch me do the same for some other random word: Honour is to buy a round for everyone at the pub. Honour is to skip a rope that's too long. Honour is to suck my cock. So, you know, get to it

tsig · 19th June 2012, 04:00 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you.
The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man.

It stated off with a lie.

So one aspect of love is never to lie.
Another facet of love is not to steal.
Again another feature of love is not to commit adultery—adultery being the violation of the marriage covenant.
Yet again love teaches children to obey their parents—love teaches parents to discipline their children by setting an example.

Love requires that we do not murder—so do not hate someone for no reason.
Love disciplines a person not to covet—to covet is to devise a way to deprive another of their possessions—eg. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife or his possessions.

So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other.

Because this has never been the case –God has decreed judgement on humanity, and his intension is to get mankind to alter their ways (repent).

To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents.
Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love.

The Bible highlights where man has failed to love.

Your god sounds like a rather ineffective hall monitor.

dafydd · 19th June 2012, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

Your god sounds like a rather ineffective hall monitor.

He can't even blind people or cause grass to wither. What a wimp.

jond · 19th June 2012, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

More bollocks. Try reality for a change.

Are you not familiar with Paul's history here on the forums? Quite the thrill ride last summer, I can tell you.

dafydd · 19th June 2012, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by jond

Are you not familiar with Paul's history here on the forums? Quite the thrill ride last summer, I can tell you.

I remember. James Randi can still see, what a surprise.

Paul Bethke · 19th June 2012, 05:36 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

I remember. James Randi can still see, what a surprise.

It is good that you can remember—so when it happens you will be reminded!

Paul Bethke · 19th June 2012, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by dafydd

He can't even blind people or cause grass to wither. What a wimp.

In due time—in the time allocated.

dafydd · 19th June 2012, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

It is good that you can remember—so when it happens you will be reminded!

It's not going to happen.

Paul Bethke · 19th June 2012, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by tsig

Your god sounds like a rather ineffective hall monitor.

You are correct for now—but later you will have a different view!

psionl0 · 19th June 2012, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Paul Bethke

Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love.

Way to minimize hell.

18th June 2012, 01:38 PM	#961
Elypsis44 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,902	Originally Posted by anduin I just wanted to quickly comment on this article. A retired geologist seems intent on proving the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Instead of any evidence we get a chain of far-fetched assumptions. There were some constructions in the area where there was olive production. This is evidence that Sodom and Gomorrah MAY have existed in this area. There were earthquakes in the area, so there MAY have been a massively huge earthquake. This massive earthquake, if it happened, MAY have been able to liquefy the ground. If all of the above might have happened, the earthquake MAY have also carried away the buildings. Wishful thinking with access to a Cambridge lab. Speaking of wishful thinking (from an Oxford guy) and MAY, I saw this yesterday: John the Baptist's Bones Possibly Discovered in Bulgaria Small bone pieces MAY belong to a male (how they arrived at that is unknown), MAY have lived in the region where John the Baptist MAY have also lived. Then at the end of the article, this nugget: Quote: "Whether that person is John the Baptist is a question that we cannot yet definitely answer and probably never will," the scientist added. Ah, the logic of religious folks.
Elypsis44 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,902	Last edited by Elypsis44; 18th June 2012 at 01:40 PM.

18th June 2012, 02:34 PM	#962
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,972	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke The solution is that these words were recorded by different persons---perhaps these words collectively will give us the whole picture. Actually, that's the problem. Collectively, they contradict one another. They should've stuck with just one book.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

18th June 2012, 02:37 PM	#963
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,972	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke I believe that anyone who does not want to go to heaven chooses to go to hell. And this illustrates perfectly why believers are generally more cruel than unbelievers. You WANT us to suffer for no good reason other than disagreement. Personally, I find both alternatives, Heaven and Hell, repulsive. We need a third party.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

18th June 2012, 02:39 PM	#965
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,972	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke The message has and is always very simple as Jesus put it---do to others as you would they do to you is the rule of all societies— --except when god commands you to kill men, women and children to glorify him.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

18th June 2012, 02:41 PM	#966
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,972	Originally Posted by Marduk Disco ****, I'd choose an afterlife with non-stop disco over Heaven any day.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

18th June 2012, 02:39 PM	#964
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by Belz... Personally, I find both alternatives, Heaven and Hell, repulsive. We need a third party. Disco

18th June 2012, 03:55 PM	#967
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,639	Originally Posted by Belz... --except when god commands you to kill men, women and children to glorify him. But after He had a son, something changed in Him!
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

18th June 2012, 03:59 PM	#968
Elypsis44 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,902	Originally Posted by Lowpro But after He had a son, something changed in Him! Well, He had Himself. Sorta. Wait. Does that mean Mary was impregnated by her son?
Elypsis44 Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 3,902

18th June 2012, 04:07 PM	#969
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by Lowpro But after He had a son, something changed in Him! Mary threatened to withold visitation unless he attended anger management classes Originally Posted by Elypsis44 Does that mean Mary was impregnated by her son? no, it was the ghost of her unborn son, lots of ghosts around in those days, people still believed in them then
	Last edited by Marduk; 18th June 2012 at 04:09 PM.

18th June 2012, 04:11 PM	#970
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,902	Originally Posted by I Ratant . How does WW -find- that invisible plane when she's parked it? There've been a few transparent planes, with see-through covering.. An early Fokker Eindecker, for one, but the structure is visible. ISTR WW's plane was totally transparent.. all the bits inside also. http://www.orthodox.net/articles/holytrinity.html "The Holy Trinity is one of the great mysteries of the Orthodox Faith. With our finite and limited minds, we are unable to comprehend the Holy Trinity at all, and yet with our hearts, we can believe in the truth of the this mystery." Seems to me like it would apply to Wonder Woman's airplane too. With our finite and limited minds, we can't understand how the spoon is it not just transparent, but apparently has a refraction index of 1 or very near, since it doesn't distort anything you see through it either. Or indeed, how the heck she finds it. But we must have faith that she does

18th June 2012, 04:15 PM	#971
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke ... Perhaps people do not know what love is? . I wanna know what love is I want you to tell me.

18th June 2012, 04:17 PM	#972
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke I believe that anyone who does not want to go to heaven chooses to go to hell. To go to heaven one must obey the commands of Yahweh the God of Israel as the only God. . And yet by the sheer number of Hindus which outnumber christians over the eons, there'll be more of them in Hell. All because of some really poor PR by Sky Daddy.

18th June 2012, 04:19 PM	#973
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by Marduk no, it was the ghost of her unborn son, lots of ghosts around in those days, people still believed in them then Mary herself was also a babe that was not of this world. I mean, John the Baptist was so glad to see her that he jumped up in the womb.
	__________________ Proud member of the Solipsistic Autosycophant's Group

18th June 2012, 04:19 PM	#974
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke Is it not what I claim as representative of what I believe? There are many people who claim attributes with regards to their god---now it remains how many gods are there—let the true God reveal himself will be the only test. . Sadly, the "proof" comes after death. No one testifies after death.

18th June 2012, 04:31 PM	#976
Lowpro Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 4,639	Originally Posted by HansMustermann http://www.orthodox.net/articles/holytrinity.html "The Holy Trinity is one of the great mysteries of the Orthodox Faith. With our finite and limited minds, we are unable to comprehend the Holy Trinity at all, and yet with our hearts, we can believe in the truth of the this mystery." Seems to me like it would apply to Wonder Woman's airplane too. With our finite and limited minds, we can't understand how the spoon is it not just transparent, but apparently has a refraction index of 1 or very near, since it doesn't distort anything you see through it either. Or indeed, how the heck she finds it. But we must have faith that she does I've always found TJ's comments on the trinity to be sublime: "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.” ― Thomas Jefferson
	__________________ "If I actually believed that Jesus was coming to end the world in 2050, I'd be preparing by stocking up on timber and nails" - PZ Myers

18th June 2012, 04:47 PM	#978
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27,241	Originally Posted by Elypsis44 Well, He had Himself. Sorta. Wait. Does that mean Mary was impregnated by her son? Since Jesus is god, yes. She was impregnated by god to give birth to god so that he could sacrifice himself to himself thereby justifying himself to forgive mankind it's sins.

18th June 2012, 04:49 PM	#979
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27,241	Originally Posted by ddt Mary herself was also a babe that was not of this world. I mean, John the Baptist was so glad to see her that he jumped up in the womb. You mean it was a premature boner?

18th June 2012, 04:58 PM	#980
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,406	Originally Posted by tsig You mean it was a premature boner? Something like that, yes. That whole passage sounds quite kinky. That eminent historian Luke wrote it, so it must be true according to Sir William Ramsay Geisler. Judge for yourself, Luke 1:39-42 Quote: 39 At that time Mary got ready and hurried to a town in the hill country of Judea, 40 where she entered Zechariah’s home and greeted Elizabeth. 41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. 42 In a loud voice she exclaimed: Oh my God, Oh my God, Jesus, I come! What is that, a threesome or a foursome or what?
	__________________ Proud member of the Solipsistic Autosycophant's Group Last edited by ddt; 18th June 2012 at 05:02 PM.

18th June 2012, 05:22 PM	#981
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27,241	Originally Posted by ddt Something like that, yes. That whole passage sounds quite kinky. That eminent historian Luke wrote it, so it must be true according to Sir William Ramsay Geisler. Judge for yourself, Luke 1:39-42 What is that, a threesome or a foursome or what? So John and Jesus were special friends before birth. Maybe the baptism was really a golden shower, it seems there's an erotic version of the NT just waiting to be written.

18th June 2012, 06:06 PM	#982
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Don't get vile. The bleevers have enough trouble "explaining" the stories as it is.

18th June 2012, 06:21 PM	#983
OntarioSquatch Muse Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 502	Originally Posted by I Ratant . I wanna know what love is I want you to tell me. An intense feeling of deep affection?
OntarioSquatch Muse Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 502

18th June 2012, 07:12 PM	#984
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	ddt actually got it.. That Foreigner video was one of the last I got off MTV before they went heavy-metal/junk.

19th June 2012, 01:34 AM	#985
Paul Bethke Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cape Town South Africa Posts: 2,595	Originally Posted by I Ratant . I wanna know what love is I want you to tell me. The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you. The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man. It stated off with a lie. So one aspect of love is never to lie. Another facet of love is not to steal. Again another feature of love is not to commit adultery—adultery being the violation of the marriage covenant. Yet again love teaches children to obey their parents—love teaches parents to discipline their children by setting an example. Love requires that we do not murder—so do not hate someone for no reason. Love disciplines a person not to covet—to covet is to devise a way to deprive another of their possessions—eg. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife or his possessions. So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other. Because this has never been the case –God has decreed judgement on humanity, and his intension is to get mankind to alter their ways (repent). To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents. Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love. The Bible highlights where man has failed to love.
	__________________ Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near.

19th June 2012, 01:51 AM	#986
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by jond I think it starts with blinding James Randi, then moves on to withering the grass of the football pitch during the world cup. More bollocks. Try reality for a change.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away. Last edited by dafydd; 19th June 2012 at 02:03 AM.

19th June 2012, 02:05 AM	#987
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke The Bible highlights where man has failed to love. But the bible is a load of crap written by primitive men. We have moved on since then. You haven't.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

19th June 2012, 02:41 AM	#988
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,902	Originally Posted by Lowpro I've always found TJ's comments on the trinity to be sublime: "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.” ― Thomas Jefferson Aye, TJ is great. But yeah, he's right. And I always found it... strange how basically you could apply Gresham's law ("Bad money drives out good") to religion. The oldest religions, granted, were still wishful thinking, but were simple to understand and indeed flowing from natural tendencies of the brain. Animism for example flows naturally from the human tendency to anthropomorphise. (And arguably not just humans. Your cat or dog accept you as the alpha -- although for cats that means very little -- because they can see you as weird big cat or dog.) It's very easy to comprehend how a bear would have some mental processes, or a "spirit", and it's a distinct and clear idea. But from there it goes increasingly less logical with every iteration, and religions more clearly born out of the deranged mind of schizophrenic idiots, stuff that doesn't even make sense unless you're equally schizophrenic, drives out the less deranged ones. It's not even a Christian innovation. Long before there was a Jesus or even the OT, you had to believe that the moon you see above as clearly a ball that doesn't do anything, is also the god Sin, who's anthropomorphic and does lots of stuff. Or that the sky above which you see as just a blue hemisphere, is also a cow, i.e., the deity Nut of Egypt. And really, it goes downhill all the way to Christianity and it's "trinity" and other nonsense, supplanting some deities which at least made SOME sense. It's as if the more nonsensical the thing one is asked to believe, the harder their cognitive dissonance will make them fight to defend that nonsense. And the harder they'll shove it down everyone else's throat. I'm pretty much getting the idea if you could go back in time and found the religion of the pink invisible flying Man-Bear-Pig, who's in the sky AND under the ground at the same time, and it's a great mystery whether he's half man and half bear-pig or half man-bear and half pig, it would probably mop the floor with every other religion

19th June 2012, 02:48 AM	#989
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,320	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke I believe that anyone who does not want to go to heaven chooses to go to hell. To go to heaven one must obey the commands of Yahweh the God of Israel as the only God. Does that mean that a person who believes in another god, or that there is no god, and no hell, has "chosen" to go to hell? How can I choose to go to hell, or Cloud Cuckoo Land? I don't believe these places exist. And even if hell does exist and I end up there, how can it possibly be asserted that I've "chosen" to go there? What revolting language you use! Back in the middle ages people were tortured by the inquisition for disbelieving the doctrines of the dominant Church. Did that mean they "chose" to have their toenails pulled out? What a vile idea!
Craig B Illuminator Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 4,320

19th June 2012, 03:11 AM	#990
Belz... Fiend God Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: In the details... Posts: 28,972	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you. That's not the concept of love. That's the concept of compassion. Quote: The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man. And the Lord of the Rings tells of the Dark Lord Sauron. So ? Quote: It stated off with a lie. Yes, a lie by God that eating the fruit would result in death. Quote: So one aspect of love is never to lie. This does not follow. Quote: Another facet of love is not to steal. What the hell does that have to do with love ? Quote: So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other. You've just made up another version of the theory of everything. No, love is none of these things. Quote: To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents. He's a damn glory whore. Pray to me and I'll forgive anything, no matter what. Quote: Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love. No. That is a thoughtcrime and that is cruel. Your god is cruel. Quote: The Bible highlights where man has failed to love. If by "failed to love" you mean "done something against the will of god" is seems we were right in doing so.
	__________________ The Onmyouza Theatre, An unofficial international fanclub forum dedicated to the Japanese heavy metal band Onmyo-Za. "In the interests of time and space, it is not unreasonable to cite one point at a time. Citing 30 is the equivalent of citing none. Obviously." - Robert Prey

19th June 2012, 03:49 AM	#991
HansMustermann Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,902	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you. The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man. It stated off with a lie. So one aspect of love is never to lie. Another facet of love is not to steal. Again another feature of love is not to commit adultery—adultery being the violation of the marriage covenant. Yet again love teaches children to obey their parents—love teaches parents to discipline their children by setting an example. Love requires that we do not murder—so do not hate someone for no reason. Love disciplines a person not to covet—to covet is to devise a way to deprive another of their possessions—eg. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife or his possessions. So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other. Because this has never been the case –God has decreed judgement on humanity, and his intension is to get mankind to alter their ways (repent). To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents. Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love. The Bible highlights where man has failed to love. No, it doesn't work that way. You can't just string random words to make word X mean whatever unrelated BS meaning Y you mean. E.g., love to mean brown nosing your imaginary friend. Unless you're going for dadaism, I suppose. I mean, geeze, watch me do the same for some other random word: Honour is to buy a round for everyone at the pub. Honour is to skip a rope that's too long. Honour is to suck my cock. So, you know, get to it
	Last edited by HansMustermann; 19th June 2012 at 03:51 AM.

19th June 2012, 04:00 AM	#992
tsig a carbon based life-form Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 27,241	Originally Posted by Paul Bethke The concept of love is very simple---do to others that you would have them do to you. The Scriptures deal with the fact that humanity has departed from what God the Creator intended for man. It stated off with a lie. So one aspect of love is never to lie. Another facet of love is not to steal. Again another feature of love is not to commit adultery—adultery being the violation of the marriage covenant. Yet again love teaches children to obey their parents—love teaches parents to discipline their children by setting an example. Love requires that we do not murder—so do not hate someone for no reason. Love disciplines a person not to covet—to covet is to devise a way to deprive another of their possessions—eg. Do not covet your neighbour’s wife or his possessions. So love is the way a society should live---to love God is to choose to live this way in consideration of each other. Because this has never been the case –God has decreed judgement on humanity, and his intension is to get mankind to alter their ways (repent). To love is to proclaim that God is willing to forgive if a person repents. Love is to decrees sentences for people who violate the concept of love. The Bible highlights where man has failed to love. Your god sounds like a rather ineffective hall monitor.

19th June 2012, 04:30 AM	#993
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by tsig Your god sounds like a rather ineffective hall monitor. He can't even blind people or cause grass to wither. What a wimp.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

19th June 2012, 04:47 AM	#994
jond Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,454	Originally Posted by dafydd More bollocks. Try reality for a change. Are you not familiar with Paul's history here on the forums? Quite the thrill ride last summer, I can tell you.
jond Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,454	Last edited by jond; 19th June 2012 at 04:51 AM. Reason: ETA: Dude's thing about blinding and withering is far beyond bollocks. Whack of the highest order...

19th June 2012, 05:23 AM	#995
dafydd Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Belgium (Flatland) Posts: 31,680	Originally Posted by jond Are you not familiar with Paul's history here on the forums? Quite the thrill ride last summer, I can tell you. I remember. James Randi can still see, what a surprise.
	__________________ Yesterday upon the stairs I met a man who wasn't there He wasn't there again today I wish that he would go away.

19th June 2012, 05:36 AM	#996
Paul Bethke Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cape Town South Africa Posts: 2,595	Originally Posted by dafydd I remember. James Randi can still see, what a surprise. It is good that you can remember—so when it happens you will be reminded!
	__________________ Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near.

19th June 2012, 05:38 AM	#997
Paul Bethke Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cape Town South Africa Posts: 2,595	Originally Posted by dafydd He can't even blind people or cause grass to wither. What a wimp. In due time—in the time allocated.
	__________________ Luke 21:31---Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the Kingdom of God is near.