What happens if you just disregard "political correctness"?

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

But what if someone says, "Happy Holidays" to me when it is Christmas? Can I sock him in his PC mouth and say, "Your PC thought control police stuff should be banned!"?

That would be taking offense where none is intended. Someone is trying to say something nice to you. So what if they get the form wrong? The intent was good. Only a jerk responds in a mean way to nice things.

Someone wishes me a good whatever, I say "thanks, you too". Ain't no harm meant.

[Redtail]

Originally Posted by GrouchoMarxist

Sexist pig.

Exactly.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha

Well, would you call a black person "******"? A Chinese person "*****"? Congrats, you and the JREF are part of the PC Police !

Why would I want to?

I've called people ******** and worse because of their behavior towards me or others, but I don't feel the need to bring ethicity into such situations because race doesn't have anything to do with being an *******.

I will relate a story though.

At a party, myself and a family member (Army and Marine service, respectively) were having a conversation with a WWII Marine combat veteran, a couple of invasions and the scars and medals to prove it.

During our conversation, a young lady interupted him, and told him that the word was "Japanese," not "Japs."

He told her that "today they're Japanese, I drive a Japanese truck, but when they're shooting at you on a beach in '45 they're *********** Japs!"

I understood the old guy, but I can tell you that the young lady in question really didn't.

[crimresearch]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Everyone can say whatever they like. What they can't do, though, is demand some kind of magic immunity from other people's reactions. You want to use "the n-word"? Go ahead. But don't accuse everyone else of "being PC" for responding exactly how you know they will. You're just trying to head off the inevitable reaction you know damn well you deserve, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to attack strawmen as a defense. "Oh, you're all PC and hippies that's why you're mean to me, boo hoo!"

If you think you're man enough to speak your mind, have the guts to stand by what you say without special pleading for immunity.

I would agree with that.

I do not agree with the version of PC that feigns outrage when someone uses the word 'handicapped', and spins a dishonest explanation as to why it is 'offensive'.
http://www.snopes.com/language/offense/handicap.asp

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

Ha ha! For some reason the image I have from this is some very white self-consciously liberal middle-class types, wearing spectacles and saying the word "African American" somewhat under their breath (like Les Dawson talking about "women's troubles"*) and looking around nervously.


* Les Dawson:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the JREF. The JREF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.

I AGREE

OK - here's another story.

I'm retired from a PD, but it seems to follow me around.

Neighbor moves in next door, and it's a deputy I know in passing.

I see him coming home in the afternoon and we start jawing.

I tell him that I had been down in his neck of the woods (county courthouse) testifying in an restraining order hearing wrt an assault case.

I relate the general facts, female assaults male, cuts up his face with her nails. She initiated contact and the assault, DA cdeclined to prosecute, etc. (non-domestic) The guy she assaulted is seeking an RO.

He asks how old the female was -late 30's - here it comes - he looks to his left, his right, and behind and quietly says out of the side of his mouth " maybe it's menopause?"

I laugh and tell him he just looked like a white guy getting ready to tell a racist joke - His response was classic "I'm married, you think I've lasted this long being stupid?"

It was even better because Mel is black...

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by Dipayan

I'm assuming that the first rhymes with figure... <snip>

In certain parts of the Ozarks, perhaps. Like when they do their ciphering and write down figgers?

[I Ratant]

Arkies write?
Since when?

[rustypouch]

The term "African American" instead of "black" bothers me, as there are many people who've emigrated from Africa, but who aren't black, such as those from the Maghrib...

Not that I have a better solution...

[JeanFromBNA]

Originally Posted by I Ratant

Arkies write?
Since when?

Maya Angelou, John Grisham, Billy Bob Thornton.

Other than that, I got nothin'.

[crimresearch]

I think Ice T says it all here:


http://music.yahoo.com/blogs/thats-r...145824657.html

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

That would be taking offense where none is intended. Someone is trying to say something nice to you. So what if they get the form wrong? The intent was good. Only a jerk responds in a mean way to nice things.

Someone wishes me a good whatever, I say "thanks, you too". Ain't no harm meant.

I know. I am just being silly.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by BStrong

Why would I want to?

I've called people ******** and worse because of their behavior towards me or others, but I don't feel the need to bring ethicity into such situations because race doesn't have anything to do with being an *******.

I will relate a story though.

At a party, myself and a family member (Army and Marine service, respectively) were having a conversation with a WWII Marine combat veteran, a couple of invasions and the scars and medals to prove it.

During our conversation, a young lady interupted him, and told him that the word was "Japanese," not "Japs."

He told her that "today they're Japanese, I drive a Japanese truck, but when they're shooting at you on a beach in '45 they're *********** Japs!"

I understood the old guy, but I can tell you that the young lady in question really didn't.

George MacDonald Fraser made some similar points about that on the radio when he was talking about his wartime service. The interviewer was expressing some disapproval of his pejorative epithets towards his Japanese adversaries in World War Two and his callousness in bayoneting them. I can't help thinking that he had slipped into the Twilight Zone. He said somethign along the lines of, Yes, yes, of course those words sound bad today but what do you think we were feeling in the middle of a bloody war?

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by angrysoba

George MacDonald Fraser made some similar points about that on the radio when he was talking about his wartime service. The interviewer was expressing some disapproval of his pejorative epithets towards his Japanese adversaries in World War Two and his callousness in bayoneting them. I can't help thinking that he had slipped into the Twilight Zone. He said somethign along the lines of, Yes, yes, of course those words sound bad today but what do you think we were feeling in the middle of a bloody war?

I'm really unable to parse this. Why are you comparing this and quoting BStrong's anecdote about a personal argument in a video store?

I gather you're not saying that BStrong should've just bayoneted the lady or that a discussion between individuals in a video store is analogous to war?

[Darat]

Originally Posted by crimresearch

Because it is a exactly that. An example of PC run amok.

Are you seriouly unaware that the label which was supposed to foster sensitivity and shared communication was promptly turned into a weapon to beat down those same things?

No the example that I was commenting on was about two rude people having an exchange in a public place. That has nothing to do with "PC" gone mad or otherwise.

And PC as used in the opening post is an example of the srawman purposefully created by self labeled "right wingers" a few decades back. Sadly they almost achieved all that they wanted to achieve. As the OP and many of the replies in this thread -such as yours- demonstrates.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Everyone can say whatever they like. What they can't do, though, is demand some kind of magic immunity from other people's reactions. You want to use "the n-word"? Go ahead. But don't accuse everyone else of "being PC" for responding exactly how you know they will. You're just trying to head off the inevitable reaction you know damn well you deserve, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to attack strawmen as a defense. "Oh, you're all PC and hippies that's why you're mean to me, boo hoo!"

If you think you're man enough to speak your mind, have the guts to stand by what you say without special pleading for immunity.

Well said chimp man!

[Dcdrac]

I have seen right and left wing political correctness in action adversly effecting peoples lives and like neither

[bluesjnr]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

I'm really unable to parse this. Why are you comparing this and quoting BStrong's anecdote about a personal argument in a video store?

I gather you're not saying that BStrong should've just bayoneted the lady or that a discussion between individuals in a video store is analogous to war?

I think you need to read that quote again.

[Darat]

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

I think you need to read that quote again.

As if there would be anything wrong with bayoneting someone who got in your face - bloody typical PC - always trying to control us.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by bluesjnr

I think you need to read that quote again.

Yeah, that might've helped. I'd have sworn he'd quoted another post.




Never mind.

[angrysoba]

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

I'm really unable to parse this. Why are you comparing this and quoting BStrong's anecdote about a personal argument in a video store?

I'm not.

Originally Posted by Foolmewunz

Yeah, that might've helped. I'd have sworn he'd quoted another post.

I have quoted lots of posts in my time.

Nae bother!

[Cain]

What's this ******** about treating traditionally oppressed groups with dignity and respect? You know, it used to be they couldn't say jack-**** back, but now they have special "in" words and organizations.

Case in point: Sarah Silverman was a potential juror in a trial involving an Asian aggressor. They asked if she had any racial animus toward Chinese people. Her answer: "No, I love chinks!" Then some Azn organization popped up, and created such a ruckus that even the Jew-controlled media had to struggle to save her. Thank ****in' Yahweh they did.

[Howie Felterbush]

Originally Posted by BStrong

During our conversation, a young lady interupted him, and told him that the word was "Japanese," not "Japs."

He told her that "today they're Japanese, I drive a Japanese truck, but when they're shooting at you on a beach in '45 they're *********** Japs!"

I understood the old guy, but I can tell you that the young lady in question really didn't.

Don't let her see this.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by Cain

Case in point: Sarah Silverman was a potential juror in a trial involving an Asian aggressor. They asked if she had any racial animus toward Chinese people. Her answer: "No, I love chinks!" Then some Azn organization popped up, and created such a ruckus that even the Jew-controlled media had to struggle to save her. Thank ****in' Yahweh they did.

I believe you're confusing what happened. Silverman told a joke on a panel television show, and one of the other guests was unable to grasp the nature of the joke, which was explictly mocking racism.

[fleabeetle]

Originally Posted by BStrong

Two incidents, both of which where I'm aware of the facts.

National level politician tours county facility with entourage.

Politician has aide that is flamboyantly gay.

Security at the facility is provided by the county sheriff's office.

Deputy on duty responds to a question from another county employee - "I just hope the sprinklers don't get tripped."

Comment is overheard.

A few weeks after the visit, a piece appears in the political gossip column of the local newspaper about a deputy "making a homophobic comment." during the politico's visit and the SO gets a letter from the politico demanding investigation and punishment (the news article appeared first, just so you know where a leak to the reporter came from)

Rather late on the scene here -- but (and am perhaps in this, an ignorant Brit oblivious to what's plain-and-clear in the USA) -- what does this comment mean? Someone setting water-sprinklers off by virtue of their being flamboyantly gay -- this makes no sense to me. Is this a long-standing American "gay scene" joke, not making sense elsewhere -- or was the deputy voicing a "poetic conceit" which clearly communicated itself as being homophobic? Would be grateful for enlightenment, however stupid said enlightening might make me feel.

[gnome]

The problem with the term PC is that it's so easily equivocated. There's no agreed upon definition, so arguments about it go on forever. It can mean the worst excesses of hypersensitive people abusing authority to force their political views upon others, but just as often is brought up by people who don't enjoy that another point of view has become popular and anticipate a rude response by saying something different. It can mean the heartless santization of our language, or the abandonment of inaccurate and pejorative terms. It can mean attempting to silence different political points of view, or it can mean that someone has mistaken disagreement for an attempt to silence them.

It's such a jumbled up, overused, broad brush that it's far more effective to simply describe what you object to without bothering with a clumsy term like PC.

[gnome]

Originally Posted by fleabeetle

Rather late on the scene here -- but (and am perhaps in this, an ignorant Brit oblivious to what's plain-and-clear in the USA) -- what does this comment mean? Someone setting water-sprinklers off by virtue of their being flamboyantly gay -- this makes no sense to me. Is this a long-standing American "gay scene" joke, not making sense elsewhere -- or was the deputy voicing a "poetic conceit" which clearly communicated itself as being homophobic? Would be grateful for enlightenment, however stupid said enlightening might make me feel.

The suggestion is that they are "flaming" (a term used to describe extremely flamboyant behaving homosexual men) and thus set off the fire suppression system.

Funny thing is the same thing could be used as a crappy come on line

"Baby you so hot the sprinklers gonna come on"

[commandlinegamer]

Originally Posted by fleabeetle

Rather late on the scene here -- but (and am perhaps in this, an ignorant Brit oblivious to what's plain-and-clear in the USA) -- what does this comment mean? Someone setting water-sprinklers off by virtue of their being flamboyantly gay -- this makes no sense to me. Is this a long-standing American "gay scene" joke, not making sense elsewhere -- or was the deputy voicing a "poetic conceit" which clearly communicated itself as being homophobic? Would be grateful for enlightenment, however stupid said enlightening might make me feel.

Substitute "flamboyantly" for "flaming" in your post, and I think that why it's a homophobic comment. That particular adjective may not have been spoken, but from that context of sprinklers being set off it might be assumed.

[crimresearch]

Originally Posted by Darat

No the example that I was commenting on was about two rude people having an exchange in a public place. That has nothing to do with "PC" gone mad or otherwise.

And PC as used in the opening post is an example of the srawman purposefully created by self labeled "right wingers" a few decades back. Sadly they almost achieved all that they wanted to achieve. As the OP and many of the replies in this thread -such as yours- demonstrates.

So taking offense at jokes about issues of sex and gender has nothing to do with PC? Because, *you* say so, right?

My replies have been to point out that PC was merely a label and a strawman for those who want to manufacture offense...

But when you say the same thing, and toss in a snide jab (that because I'm non-white, and I was uppity enough to dare disagree with you, I'm a 'right winger') that's pure genius right?

Same old Argumentum ad moderatorem, and still a logical fallacy in defense of your bigotry.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by crimresearch

So taking offense at jokes about issues of sex and gender has nothing to do with PC?

Sometimes people take offense to things because they are offensive. It seems to me that accusing people of "being PC" is an attempt to assert that nobody's allowed to be offended by offensive things. It's an attempt to garner immunity to have your cake and eat it, too: say whatever idiotic things you like but escape all criticism for it.

[Salerio]

Originally Posted by gnome

The suggestion is that they are "flaming" (a term used to describe extremely flamboyant behaving homosexual men) and thus set off the fire suppression system.

Ahhhhh THAT'S what it means I always thought it was a general term like "******* homosexuals"

So Quentin Crisp would be a "flaming homosexual" while, oh, Rock Hudson (say) would just be "homosexual"?

[crimresearch]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

Sometimes people take offense to things because they are offensive. It seems to me that accusing people of "being PC" is an attempt to assert that nobody's allowed to be offended by offensive things. It's an attempt to garner immunity to have your cake and eat it, too: say whatever idiotic things you like but escape all criticism for it.

I already said that I agreed that was part of it.
Are you denying that the counter-example from Snopes ever happens?

[I Ratant]

Originally Posted by JeanFromBNA

Maya Angelou, John Grisham, Billy Bob Thornton.

Other than that, I got nothin'.

.
Oh, those guys/gals... Humph!
There's exceptions to every blanket bigoted put down!

[Tricky]

"I want to be able to describe people as *******, chinks, japs, faggots, retards and bitches. But I don't want you to be able to call me a bigot for using those words."

The essence of the anti-PC movement.

[rwguinn]

Originally Posted by commandlinegamer

Substitute "flamboyantly" for "flaming" in your post, and I think that why it's a homophobic comment. That particular adjective may not have been spoken, but from that context of sprinklers being set off it might be assumed.

And that (bolded) is a PC assumption on your part.
Anybody who says something assumed (by the PC crowd) to be derogatory about anyone is whatever-ophobic. Or racist. You're swinging a wide loop, there.

[rwguinn]

Originally Posted by Tricky

"I want to be able to describe people as *******, chinks, japs, faggots, retards and bitches. But I don't want you to be able to call me a bigot for using those words."

The essence of the anti-PC movement.

Horse feathers! An assumption on your part. There's that damned wide loop again.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by fleabeetle

Rather late on the scene here -- but (and am perhaps in this, an ignorant Brit oblivious to what's plain-and-clear in the USA) -- what does this comment mean? Someone setting water-sprinklers off by virtue of their being flamboyantly gay -- this makes no sense to me. Is this a long-standing American "gay scene" joke, not making sense elsewhere -- or was the deputy voicing a "poetic conceit" which clearly communicated itself as being homophobic? Would be grateful for enlightenment, however stupid said enlightening might make me feel.

As others pointed out, it was a reference to "flaming," and the comment was not deemed homophobic in itself by the IA investigation.

What this incident illustrates is the concept that an innocent comment that in no way rises to insult can be construed (for political gain in this case imo) as being offensive.

My earlier post about the incident at the video store illustrates that an offended party, not even an involved participant, can feel impowered to interject their pov into someone elses life uninvited due to the acceptance of political correctness as status quo.

[BStrong]

Originally Posted by Tricky

"I want to be able to describe people as *******, chinks, japs, faggots, retards and bitches. But I don't want you to be able to call me a bigot for using those words."

The essence of the anti-PC movement.

Tricky - I don't know of anyone in my circle that would assert that any of those terms is acceptable, PC or not, but I also know from my own experiences that words and phrases far removed from any possible pejorative inference have been cited as racist, homphobic and sexist by individuals with an axe to grind or a agenda.

An example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...district27.htm

"The director of D.C. Mayor Anthony A. Williams's constituent services office resigned after being accused of using a racial slur, the mayor's office said yesterday.

David Howard, head of the Office of Public Advocate, said he used the word "niggardly" in a Jan. 15 conversation about funding with two employees.

"I used the word 'niggardly' in reference to my administration of a fund," Howard said in a written statement yesterday. "Although the word, which is defined as miserly, does not have any racial connotations, I realize that staff members present were offended by the word.

"I immediately apologized," Howard said. " . . . I would never think of making a racist remark. I regret that the word I did use offended anyone."

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by crimresearch

I already said that I agreed that was part of it.
Are you denying that the counter-example from Snopes ever happens?

I'd say that actual "PC" crap happens much less frequently than is suggested by popular right wing media and hearsay anecdotes from the same people who believe there is a "War on Christmas".

And that most of what does occur is due to people trying to escape imaginary complaints and lawsuits that haven't happened. There is a large amount of paranoia in certain bodies, particularly ones like public school systems. They know whatever they do, someone's going to complain, so they overcompensate trying not to give the faintest possibility of grounds for a complaint...which itself leads to behavior which is worthy of complaint.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by TragicMonkey

I believe you're confusing what happened. Silverman told a joke on a panel television show, and one of the other guests was unable to grasp the nature of the joke, which was explictly mocking racism.

No, it happened exactly as I said it did.
Evidence: http://www.waybetterstories.com/poli...vermans-chinks

[TragicMonkey]

Originally Posted by BStrong

As others pointed out, it was a reference to "flaming," and the comment was not deemed homophobic in itself by the IA investigation.

What this incident illustrates is the concept that an innocent comment that in no way rises to insult can be construed (for political gain in this case imo) as being offensive.

I think there is more than just two valuations, "homophobic" and "innocent". Calling someone flaming isn't "innocent"; at the very least it's guilty of basic rudeness. Commenting on other people's appearance and manner is uncivil. It doesn't have to be fire-worthy, lawsuit-grounds to be improper. Just because you couldn't win a million dollars for someone saying it doesn't mean what they said is "innocent" and blameless.