The bible condones slavery

[keale]

So um whats up with that? The OT tells you how to buy slaves and were talking men, women and children. Even Jesus has no problem with slavery and prescribes how to be a good slave. So im thinking Christians should have no problem with it also? Even the NT has instructions on how to be a good slave...how bout that? I understand most modern liberal Christians ignore these inconvenient parts but why? How do you just flat out ignore some parts while hyper focusing on others like homosexuality for example?

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

[Vortigern99]

Slavery was a fact in the ancient Mediterranean world. The authors of the various books of the Bible upheld and supported this cultural norm via their sacred Scriptures.

Slavery is no longer the norm and is today considered abhorrent. Believers in the Judeo-Christian God(s) may reject the passages condoning slavery as an outmoded facet of the ancient world.

[Aepervius]

Originally Posted by Vortigern99

Believers in the Judeo-Christian God(s) may reject the passages condoning slavery as an outmoded facet of the ancient world.

Which then cast a shadow on *any* passage of the bible, or any pretense that morality is divinely defined.

Fine by me .

[keale]

Originally Posted by Aepervius

Which then cast a shadow on *any* passage of the bible, or any pretense that morality is divinely defined.

Fine by me .

Exactly! That opens a whole can of worms.

So for the believers again why can we conveniently ignore these passages?

[Lowpro]

Originally Posted by keale

Exactly! That opens a whole can of worms.

So for the believers again why can we conveniently ignore these passages?

You pick the good parts? Thomas Jefferson did that, but then again slavery was still a cultural norm...

[Craig B]

Does the Bible permit owners to murder their slaves, as long as the slave dies slowly? See Exodus 21:20-21.

Quote:

New American Standard Bible (NASB) 20 If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21 If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

Here are some other translations of v 21. The New International Version is quite different from the others, and makes no sense. By the way, traditional Jewish and Christian commentators assume that the slave dies, and doesn't "recover", after one or two days.

Quote:

Young's Literal Translation (YLT) only if he remain a day, or two days, he is not avenged, for he [is] his money.
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA) But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money.
King James Version (KJV) Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
Good News Translation (GNT) But if the slave does not die for a day or two, the master is not to be punished. The loss of his property is punishment enough.
Wycliffe Bible (WYC) 21 Soothly if the servant liveth over this beating one day, or twain, the smiter shall not be subject to the pain of death, for the servant is his master’s chattel.
New International Version (NIV) but they are not to be punished if the slave recovers after a day or two, since the slave is their property.

[LarianLeQuella]

A little something I keep in a notepad document for easy and handy reference. Can't recall where I got it from anymore, but I will say it is NOT my own work:

Quote:

Here are ten passages from the Bible that clearly demonstrate God's position on slavery:

Genesis chapter 17, verse 12:

And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed. He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised.
In this passage god understands that people buy other people and, quite obviously, is comfortable with the concept. God wants slaves circumcised in the same way as non-slaves.

Exodus chapter 12 verse 43:

The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, "These are the regulations for the Passover: No foreigner is to eat of it. Any slave you have bought may eat of it after you have circumcised him, but a temporary resident and a hired worker may not eat of it.
God again shows that he is completely comfortable with the concept of slavery and singles out slaves for special treatment.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 1:

Now these are the ordinances which you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go out free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master's and he shall go out alone. But if the slave plainly says, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free,' then his master shall bring him to God, and he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall bore his ear through with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.
Here god describes how to become a slave for life, and shows that it is completely acceptable to separate slaves from their families. God also shows that he completely endorses the branding of slaves through mutilation.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 20:

If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Not only does god condone slavery, but he is also completely comfortable with the concept of beating your slaves, as long as you don't kill them.

Exodus Chapter 21, verse 32:

If the bull gores a male or female slave, the owner must pay thirty shekels of silver to the master of the slave, and the bull must be stoned.
Not only does god condone slavery, but here god places a value on slaves -- 30 shekels of silver. Note that god is not sophisticated enough to understand the concept of inflation. It is now 3,000 years later, and a gored slave is still worth 30 shekels of silver according to god's word.

Leviticus Chapter 22, verse 10:

No one outside a priest's family may eat the sacred offering, nor may the guest of a priest or his hired worker eat it. But if a priest buys a slave with money, or if a slave is born in his household, that slave may eat his food.
Here god shows that the children of slaves are slaves themselves, and that he is completely happy with that concept.

Leviticus Chapter 25, verse 44:

Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.
Here god states where you may purchase your slaves, and clearly specifies that slaves are property to be bought, sold and handed down.

Luke, Chapter 7, verse 2:

Now a centurion had a slave who was dear to him, who was sick and at the point of death. When he heard of Jesus, he sent to him elders of the Jews, asking him to come and heal his slave. And when they came to Jesus, they besought him earnestly, saying, "He is worthy to have you do this for him, for he loves our nation, and he built us our synagogue." And Jesus went with them. When he was not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying to him, "Lord, do not trouble yourself, for I am not worthy to have you come under my roof; therefore I did not presume to come to you. But say the word, and let my servant be healed. For I am a man set under authority, with soldiers under me: and I say to one, 'Go,' and he goes; and to another, 'Come,' and he comes; and to my slave, 'Do this,' and he does it." When Jesus heard this he marveled at him, and turned and said to the multitude that followed him, "I tell you, not even in Israel have I found such faith." And when those who had been sent returned to the house, they found the slave well.
Here jesus shows that he is completely comfortable with the concept of slavery. Jesus heals the slave without any thought of freeing the slave or admonishing the slave's owner.

Colossians, chapter 3, verse 22:

Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not with eyeservice, as men-pleasers, but in singleness of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever your task, work heartily...
Here god shows that he is in complete acceptance of a slave's position, and encourages slaves to work hard. This sentiment is repeated in Titus, chapter 2 verse 9:

Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect; they are not to be refractory, nor to pilfer, but to show entire and true fidelity.
Once again god shows that he is quite enamored of slavery.

God loves slavery

If the bible is written by god, and these are the words of the lord, then you can come to only one possible conclusion: God is an impressive advocate of slavery and is fully supportive of the concept.
As you can see, these slavery passages present us with an immense contradiction:

On the one hand, we all know that slavery is an outrage and a moral abomination. As a result, slavery is now completely illegal throughout the developed world.
On the other hand, most christians claim that the bible came from god. In god's word, the "creator of the universe" states that slavery is perfectly acceptable. Beating your slaves is fine. Enslaving children is fine. Separating slave families is fine. According to the bible, we should all be practicing slavery today.
The intensity of this contradiction is remarkable. It shows us quite clearly that god is imaginary.
If god were to exist, and if he were playing any role whatsoever on our planet, he would eliminate this connection between himself and slavery. There is no way that a loving god would allow himself to be perceived as condoning and encouraging slavery like this.

Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: You, as a rational human being, know that slavery is wrong. You know it. That is why every single developed nation in the world has made slavery completely illegal. Human beings make slavery illegal, in direct defiance of god's word, because we all know with complete certainty that slavery is an abomination.

What does your common sense now tell you about a bible that supports slavery in both the Old and the New Testaments?

Understanding the Rationalizations

Many believers will argue that god had to talk this way in the Old Testament in order to "fit in" with the dominant culture. This, of course, is silly. In christian mythology, god is the one who created humans and human culture. In addition, a god that condones the beating of slaves and the enslavement of children at any time is an abomination.

A believer might say, "Well, all of those verses are from the Old Testament and no longer apply because of jesus." This line of rationalization prompts several obvious questions. Why would the Old Testament still be printed in the bible if jesus overturned it? Why would God EVER tell us to beat slaves?

The most important thing that this line of rationalization misses is that jesus specifically states that the laws of the Old Testament still stand. In Matthew 5:18 Jesus says:

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not one letter, not one stroke of a letter, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.
Then he goes on to say:

Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
According to jesus, the Old Testament is alive and well. According to Isaiah 40:8, "the word of our god stands forever." The notion that these old testament verses no longer apply is completely untrue according to the bible. Christians imagine that they "no longer apply" as a way of rationalizing their religion.

Other believers rationalize that god did not write these slavery passages in the bible. The bible was somehow corrupted by slave-loving men. In that case, the obvious question to ask yourself is this: If the bible has been corrupted, how can we possibly know which parts of the bible came from god and which parts were inserted by primitive men? You have absolutely no way to know.

It is when you start thinking about the bible in this way that you understand something very important about the bible. Either the entire bible really is god's word, or the entire bible was written by primitive men with absolutely no input from god. Here is the reason for this very strong dividing line:

If part of the bible came from god and part came from primitive men, you do not know which is which. You do not know if jesus really is resurrected, or if that's just a make-believe story inserted by primitive men. How do you know if god wrote the Ten Commandments or not? If any part of the bible has been polluted by primitive men, you have to reject the whole thing. There is no way to know who wrote what, so the entire book is invalid.
There really is no middle ground and the bible has to be an all-or-nothing book. Either the entire bible came from god, or none of it did. With this all-or-nothing reality about the bible now understood, you can see that there are only two possible explanations for the slavery passages in the bible:

The bible is right, and god loves slavery. The entire bible is god's word, so these slavery passages must be god's word too. The laws in the United States and other modern nations that make slavery illegal defy god's word. Justice Scalia should be promoting slavery in exactly the same way that he promotes the Ten Commandments.
The bible condones slavery because the bible was written by slave-owning men, not by god. God is imaginary.
Chances are that you have a problem with the first explanation. God would not champion the abomination that is slavery. We all know that. Therefore, what you are left with is the second explanation.

[Craig B]

LarianLeQuella

I'm pretty sure Exodus 21:21 is even worse than you think!

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by Craig B

@LarianLeQuella

I'm pretty sure Exodus 21:21 is even worse than you think!

See Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible:

Quote:

Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two,.... And does not die immediately, or the same day, but lives twenty four hours, as the Jewish writers interpret it; ... he shall not be punished; that is, with death:

for he is his money; is bought with his money, and is good as money, and therefore it is a loss sufficient to him to lose him; and it may be reasonably thought he did not smite his servant with an intention to kill him, since he himself is the loser by it.

[keale]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

You pick the good parts? Thomas Jefferson did that, but then again slavery was still a cultural norm...

So it was a cultural norm because god made the rules. since god made the rules and had them written down in the bible we can conclude that slavery is fine and dandy. I would formally like to convert and choose my foreign slave girl. I love exotic women

[keale]

Really? No takers on the issue of slavery???? I would have expected our resident believers to be all over this one.

[Lowpro]

Originally Posted by keale

So it was a cultural norm because god made the rules. since god made the rules and had them written down in the bible we can conclude that slavery is fine and dandy. I would formally like to convert and choose my foreign slave girl. I love exotic women

Not because God chose the rules, because people chose them and claimed God chose the rules. People did bad things and lied about it. I hope you were sitting down for that.

[keale]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

Not because God chose the rules, because people chose them and claimed God chose the rules. People did bad things and lied about it. I hope you were sitting down for that.

I still fell off my chair

[steve s]

This is the same god that goes out of his way to condemn such trivial things as eating shellfish and wearing clothing made from more than one type of fiber, but he can't be bothered to speak out against something as abhorrent as slavery.

Steve S

[keale]

Originally Posted by steve s

This is the same god that goes out of his way to condemn such trivial things as eating shellfish and wearing clothing made from more than one type of fiber, but he can't be bothered to speak out against something as abhorrent as slavery.

Steve S

Interesting isnt it?

Well guys, any believers want to take a stab at this one? GIBHOR? EDGE?. If indeed morality is divinely inspired then are we doing it wrong by not taking slaves? Ive always wanted my very own slave girl and that should be fine as long as shes a foreigner right???? It plainly says so as posted in the OP.

[Kaylee]

On a related note, I always wonder how the abolition of slavery came about in the Western World considering that most of its citizens were Christians and presumably believed in the bible at the time.

That question may belong in the history forum.

[jasonpatterson]

Originally Posted by Kaylee

On a related note, I always wonder how the abolition of slavery came about in the Western World considering that most of its citizens were Christians and presumably believed in the bible at the time.

That question may belong in the history forum.

The same way that not stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday got started. Some people realized that it was wrong and convinced other people of their point of view. Eventually nearly everyone agreed and it became a thing of the past. There's no reason to believe that earlier christians were any less prone to picking and choosing from the bible than current ones, at least those who were able to read it. Then as now, most hadn't done that...

[Robrob]

Obviously society has changed (for the better) since then. Sadly in their zealotry to proclaim the inherent nature of their book, the fundies end up having to tap dance around such issues. Much simpler to pull a Latter Day Saints and say, polygamy? Not anymore.

[Kaylee]

Originally Posted by jasonpatterson

The same way that not stoning people to death for doing things like picking up sticks on a Saturday got started. Some people realized that it was wrong and convinced other people of their point of view. Eventually nearly everyone agreed and it became a thing of the past. There's no reason to believe that earlier christians were any less prone to picking and choosing from the bible than current ones, at least those who were able to read it. Then as now, most hadn't done that...

Interesting point -- I had forgotten that the bible also condones stoning.

Originally Posted by Robrob

Obviously society has changed (for the better) since then. Sadly in their zealotry to proclaim the inherent nature of their book, the fundies end up having to tap dance around such issues. Much simpler to pull a Latter Day Saints and say, polygamy? Not anymore.

and more interesting points.

But still, the cognitive dissonance ...

[Craig B]

Originally Posted by keale

Really? No takers on the issue of slavery???? I would have expected our resident believers to be all over this one.

It's not hard to see why the believers feel inclined to leave this one alone. Here is an extract from a Bull Romanus Pontifex written by Pope Nicholas V in 1455 in favour of King Alfonso V of Portugal permitting him to exploit newly discovered lands in Africa. It is in essence the founding charter of the West African slave trade.

Quote:

we had formerly by other letters of ours granted among other things free and ample faculty to the aforesaid King Alfonso -- to invade, search out, capture, vanquish, and subdue all Saracens and pagans whatsoever, and other enemies of Christ wheresoever placed ... and to reduce their persons to perpetual slavery, and to apply and appropriate to himself and his successors the ... possessions, and goods, and to convert them to his and their use and profit

[MsFortune]

There are plenty of white evangelicals and baptists that I think would be right comfortable with slavery making a reappearance. Matter of fact, there's a whole forum full of Birthers that probably would not mind a literal interpretation of Leviticus.

They'd be so happy to have slaves they would willingly give up wearing garments made of mixed fibers.

[keale]

Originally Posted by MsFortune

There are plenty of white evangelicals and baptists that I think would be right comfortable with slavery making a reappearance. Matter of fact, there's a whole forum full of Birthers that probably would not mind a literal interpretation of Leviticus.

They'd be so happy to have slaves they would willingly give up wearing garments made of mixed fibers.

WHOA now back the truck up!!! Mixed fibers is where I draw the line there buddy. How the hell am I supposed to look dope if I cant wear those mixed fibers?

[keale]

Originally Posted by Craig B

It's not hard to see why the believers feel inclined to leave this one alone. Here is an extract from a Bull Romanus Pontifex written by Pope Nicholas V in 1455 in favour of King Alfonso V of Portugal permitting him to exploit newly discovered lands in Africa. It is in essence the founding charter of the West African slave trade.

Yeah im expecting a tumble weed to roll through this thread before the believers show up.

[Multivac]

deleted

[catsmate1]

Originally Posted by keale

Really? No takers on the issue of slavery???? I would have expected our resident believers to be all over this one.

Mostly the deny, ignore and obfuscate the issue.

[Silly Green Monkey]

Originally Posted by keale

So it was a cultural norm because god made the rules. since god made the rules and had them written down in the bible we can conclude that slavery is fine and dandy. I would formally like to convert and choose my foreign slave girl. I love exotic women

Marduk might be able to help you there.

[TimCallahan]

Originally Posted by Craig B

Does the Bible permit owners to murder their slaves, as long as the slave dies slowly? See Exodus 21:20-21. Here are some other translations of v 21. The New International Version is quite different from the others, and makes no sense. By the way, traditional Jewish and Christian commentators assume that the slave dies, and doesn't "recover", after one or two days.

Looking at my King James Version, I see that what is variously translated as "survives" or "recovers" is rendered "continue" in the KJV. Looking "continue" up in my copy of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (which happens, in my version, to be keyed to the KJV), I find that the original Hebrew word is 'amad, which means "stand." Thus, if the slave you smacked up side the head stands (i.e. lives) a day or two, you're home free. So, the trick, if you want to be rid of this particular slave, and you don't think you can get a good price for him - maybe he's an old codger and eats more than he can produce in labor - is to smack him just hard enough that he'll eventually die of the blow, just not right then and there. So, this calls for a certain degree of subtlety and finesse. Perhaps one needs the services of a professional slave-smacker.

[keale]

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

Looking at my King James Version, I see that what is variously translated as "survives" or "recovers" is rendered "continue" in the KJV. Looking "continue" up in my copy of Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible (which happens, in my version, to be keyed to the KJV), I find that the original Hebrew word is 'amad, which means "stand." Thus, if the slave you smacked up side the head stands (i.e. lives) a day or two, you're home free. So, the trick, if you want to be rid of this particular slave, and you don't think you can get a good price for him - maybe he's an old codger and eats more than he can produce in labor - is to smack him just hard enough that he'll eventually die of the blow, just not right then and there. So, this calls for a certain degree of subtlety and finesse. Perhaps one needs the services of a professional slave-smacker.

Maybe a weekend at Bernies?

[Paulhoff]

Originally Posted by Lowpro

You pick the good parts? Thomas Jefferson did that, but then again slavery was still a cultural norm...

He got rid of all the magic stuff, one day I hope to see what he left in that I would cut out.

Paul

[Kaylee]

Originally Posted by Craig B

It's not hard to see why the believers feel inclined to leave this one alone. Here is an extract from a Bull Romanus Pontifex written by Pope Nicholas V in 1455 in favour of King Alfonso V of Portugal permitting him to exploit newly discovered lands in Africa. It is in essence the founding charter of the West African slave trade.

Combine that papal bull with the concept of papal infallibility and there are probably a lot of things that many people would want to gloss over.

[Jodie]

In regards to slavery, the whole relationship of man with God is described as one of servitude. I believe in something more than just this life but I have absolutely no faith or confidence in an ancient good ole boy's interpretation of what God thinks.

As for slavery, it is still in existence today although we call it by other names; human trafficking, being trapped in the welfare system, slave labor in sweat shops, pretty much any situation or institution that removes the equality of men and women is a form of modern day slavery. It is alive and well in every country on earth, including the U.S.

To be honest, the problem isn't about God and whether he exists, or what some old guy sitting up on a mountain talking to a burning bush says he will or won't allow. The problem lies with us as a general rule because we simply aren't capable of rising above it all and being unselfish. Morals evolve as a matter of learning to live together, choosing to adhere to them on an individual basis is what continues to create conflict regardless of what one thinks of the existence of a deity.

[keale]

Originally Posted by Jodie

In regards to slavery, the whole relationship of man with God is described as one of servitude. I believe in something more than just this life but I have absolutely no faith or confidence in an ancient good ole boy's interpretation of what God thinks.

As for slavery, it is still in existence today although we call it by other names; human trafficking, being trapped in the welfare system, slave labor in sweat shops, pretty much any situation or institution that removes the equality of men and women is a form of modern day slavery. It is alive and well in every country on earth, including the U.S.

To be honest, the problem isn't about God and whether he exists, or what some old guy sitting up on a mountain talking to a burning bush says he will or won't allow. The problem lies with us as a general rule because we simply aren't capable of rising above it all and being unselfish. Morals evolve as a matter of learning to live together, choosing to adhere to them on an individual basis is what continues to create conflict regardless of what one thinks of the existence of a deity.

Thats fair and I understand your POV. Its true modern day slavery still exists in many forms. Seems almost human nature to take advantage of the weaker among us. I hope in the future we can work towards eliminating this.

id like to get input from other believers.

This is a question of whether morality is divinely inspired by the bible god and if so why can we ignore something the bible clearly condones. Are we smarter than the bible god? Or are we doing it wrong by not taking the virgins as war booty?

[kerikiwi]

Originally Posted by Jodie

As for slavery, it is still in existence today although we call it by other names; human trafficking, being trapped in the welfare system, slave labor in sweat shops, pretty much any situation or institution that removes the equality of men and women is a form of modern day slavery. It is alive and well in every country on earth, including the U.S.

Except what you describe is not slavery.
Any situation which removes equality is slavery? The fact that one person has a lower income than another removes equality, but is not slavery.

[Gawdzilla]

[Pup]

Originally Posted by Kaylee

On a related note, I always wonder how the abolition of slavery came about in the Western World considering that most of its citizens were Christians and presumably believed in the bible at the time.

That question may belong in the history forum.

If one wants to read Christians arguing whether slavery is moral, from a Biblical point of view, 19th century American publications are one of the best places.

[Gawdzilla]

Originally Posted by Pup

If one wants to read Christians arguing whether slavery is moral, from a Biblical point of view, 19th century American publications are one of the best places.

William Lloyd Garrison.

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla

William Lloyd Garrison.

Pretty sure Frederick Douglass as well.

But you'd be improving yourself by reading him regardless.

[Gawdzilla]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Pretty sure Frederick Douglass as well.

But you'd be improving yourself by reading him regardless.

Thank you, I was about to get out my paper notes. Douglass was a magnificent writer. Garrison was a fire-and-brimstone preacher of abolition.

Of some slight interest, Garrison's son helped the NAACP in their counter-attack of "Birth of a Nation".

[MG1962]

Originally Posted by Gawdzilla

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...56125133_n.jpg

What is that an image of?

[MG1962]

Originally Posted by Pup

If one wants to read Christians arguing whether slavery is moral, from a Biblical point of view, 19th century American publications are one of the best places.

Which needs to ignore what Christians in many other countries were saying and more importantly doing