JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Tags George Zimmerman , shooting incidents , Trayvon Martin

Closed Thread
Old 25th June 2012, 05:11 AM   #241
sgtbaker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
This would be a more persuasive comparison if, in addition to your dog walking ritual you were also the self-appointed captain of your Neighborhood Watch and had made dozens of phone calls to the police from the neighborhood in the past couple of years reporting your concerns about suspicious activities in the area.




I don't.

Three streets. Three!

Hell, as much neighborhood watching as he seems to have been doing he should know the names of all the people on all of the (three) streets ... and all their dogs' names too.

Okay. Maybe that was a bit of hyperbole, but I still ain't buyin' it.
But you hear him having trouble giving directions , multiple times, right in the phone call. To me, either he really does have trouble with it or he faked not being able to give those directions to preemptively set up a murder defense. That stumbling is the only reason why I give it credence.
sgtbaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 05:38 AM   #242
Cylinder
Philosopher
 
Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,168
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
No matter the pile-on of cherry picked baskets of bloody sounding beat downs - the fact remains they were minor injuries requiring some peroxide for a few minutes in the back of a squad car, none requiring so much as a bandage.
So point out what I omitted. Those are the notes I took while listening to the actual statement. Also, the SFD responders recomended transport to the hospital and noted that Zimmerman needed sutures. They's probably want to bandage it up after that.

Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
Cause of Injury [to Zimmerman]: Struck by blunt/thrown object. (9640) Mechanism of Injury: Blunt
Yup, SFD mis-coded or WAGed Zimmerman's injuries. Each of the responders stated that Zimmerman really didn't discuss how he obtained them.
__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm
Cylinder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 05:43 AM   #243
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,864
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
This would be a more persuasive comparison if, in addition to your dog walking ritual you were also the self-appointed captain of your Neighborhood Watch and had made dozens of phone calls to the police from the neighborhood in the past couple of years
How are you defining "couple of years"?
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 05:45 AM   #244
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,864
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
I'm going to ask you the same question. Did you listen to the latest document dump?

You can't explain some of this away with normal memory changes.

According to some of you, anything could be attributed to normal memory changes...

That's just not how it works and that is not what memory studies show happen.

You're taking the memory changes ball and running with it.

I can only assume why you would want to do that...
Perhaps you could state what you believe is a material inconsitency?

Last edited by WildCat; 25th June 2012 at 05:52 AM.
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 05:53 AM   #245
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
How are you defining "couple of years"?
33 in 3 years.

That's a record for most folks.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:11 AM   #246
Cylinder
Philosopher
 
Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,168
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
This witness then says he's going to call 911. GZ tells him no, I already called them, GZ tells him to call his wife, ('tell her I just shot someone') -
then he (sort of) jokes with Z: "did you use a 9 or a 40?"
GZ: "ah, I used a 9."
Zimmerman had called the police and knew they were en route. Is there something sinister about him asking that someone call his wife?

Also, how Flashlight Man's seemingly callous question give any insight into Zimmerman's story or state-of-mind?

It may come as a shock to you, but people sometimes say really dumb things in awkward situations. Human nature tells us not to ask the awkward question so often we go straight from there to the stupid one.
__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm
Cylinder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:17 AM   #247
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by Cylinder View Post
So point out what I omitted. Those are the notes I took while listening to the actual statement. Also, the SFD responders recomended transport to the hospital and noted that Zimmerman needed sutures. They's probably want to bandage it up after that.



Yup, SFD mis-coded or WAGed Zimmerman's injuries. Each of the responders stated that Zimmerman really didn't discuss how he obtained them.
You omitted a lot. It was a ho hum clean up. Minor laceration.

If he was actively bleeding after a few minutes, they would have provided covering to the wound, for obvious reasons.

Hell, even when a nurse takes a blood test you get a wad of gauze and a bandaid.

He refused medical treatment that night. That tells us a lot.
He refused seeking ENT specialist the next day to confirm nose broken. Tells us more.
He tells Singleton that night he feels generally OK - he also states to her that night "they told me I didn't need to go to the hospital."

You make sense of it.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:26 AM   #248
TheL8Elvis
Illuminator
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,552
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Here's a great example.

If you are saying that what Bob001 says isn't true then back it up with what was really said! Even if it has been posted a thousand times before! That is how you drill the truth into peoples heads. If it is in fact the truth of course.

If you say the highlighted sentence above, then immediately follow it up with what you found the evidence says that Z "really" reported.
Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:35 AM   #249
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by sgtbaker View Post
But you hear him having trouble giving directions , multiple times, right in the phone call. To me, either he really does have trouble with it or he faked not being able to give those directions to preemptively set up a murder defense. That stumbling is the only reason why I give it credence.
I find it curious Z claims he knows all the residents there.

At a minimum, we are talking 4 to 500 people, many renters in and out in the last few years due to housing slump and foreclosures.

Dude claims he knows everyone there - but doesn't know the three streets in the complex.

Bizarre.

Last edited by Rare Truth; 25th June 2012 at 06:36 AM.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:37 AM   #250
TheL8Elvis
Illuminator
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,552
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
Some may find this interesting viewing, some may not: http://imgur.com/a/bcAII
"cartridge case found under his body"
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:43 AM   #251
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
"cartridge case found under his body"
I don't know why you're rolling your eyes. That's where it was found.

Didn't you read the report?
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:46 AM   #252
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Perhaps the wording of "where his dead body had lain" might have been more precise.

Is that your gripe?
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:47 AM   #253
TheL8Elvis
Illuminator
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,552
Originally Posted by Noztradamus View Post
Even if he decided to go to the T-walkway, before he reached it he would see, almost directly in front of him, the House on the Corner

http://i311.photobucket.com/albums/k...3front1211.jpg
Address does not do him any good if he doesn't recall the street name.

I really thought the entire time the isse was the street address (number) , not the street name.
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 06:51 AM   #254
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Zimmerman: "I was looking for a street sign."
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:00 AM   #255
Cylinder
Philosopher
 
Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,168
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
"cartridge case found under his body"
That's one of the things I want to clear up with the crime scene diagram that should be released by Wednesday.

The shell casing was recovered after Martin's body was removed. It may well have been under Martin's body after it was flipped by SPD officers. That seems to correspond with Object Marker 6 (which is never referenced in the police reports) being Martin's body. Another possible explanation is that OM-6 is the initial marker for the metal detector tone. Presumably if it marked some trace evidence, that would have been referenced in the police reports as well.

Det Ceisla narrates this portion of the initial investigation in the police summary on page 19:

Quote:
After a visual search of the area failed to turn up the cartridge, I got the metal detector and began to scan the area where the victim had lain. I did one sweep of the area with negative results and then reset the sensitivity of the metal detector. As I started again I heard a strong tone and looked in the area. I did not see anything so I marked the area and instructed CST smith to check the area again visually and I moved on. Before I got to the end of the sweep CST Smith told me she had found [the] casing just inches from where I had placed the marker.
__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm
Cylinder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:00 AM   #256
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Exact words:

"...I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign and the direction the suspect was."


Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:01 AM   #257
TheL8Elvis
Illuminator
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,552
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
I don't know why you're rolling your eyes. That's where it was found.

Didn't you read the report?
Yes, I read the report.

The report that says they found a small flashlight that was "on" ?

A can of Iced tea ? A victim in khaki pants ?

The report where the LEO heard GZ say things he didn't say because the SFD EMT didn't hear them ?

The report that says LEOs arrived within 40 seconds, but that is not possible because the witness said they didn't arrive for minutes ?

That report ? From the awesome SPD who did a stellar job that night ?

After the victim was transported, Sgt. CIesla and I looked for a cartridge case while It was stili raining. Sgt.Ciesla uttlized a metal detector as I searched In the areas the detector would deteot. A short time later, a 9mm Luger S&B cartrldge case was located, documented, and recovered

After a visual search of tOe area felled to turn up the cartridge I got the metal deleolor and began to soan the area where the vicflm had lainlain. I did one sweep of the area with negative results and then reset thesensitivity of the metal det$ctor. As I s;tarted again I neard a strong tone and looked In the area. I did not seeanything so I marked the area, ahd Instruoted CST Smith to check ttDe 31'$8 again visually and I moved on. Before t got to the end of the sweep CST Smith told me that she had found casing just Inches from where I hadp.aeed the marker. CST Smith documented and recovered a 9mm Luger S&B cartridge oase.

If you think that means under the body , *shrugs*
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:09 AM   #258
LTC8K6
Penultimate Amazing
 
LTC8K6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Directly under a deadly chemtrail
Posts: 15,452
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
Exact words:

"...I was out of my vehicle looking for a street sign and the direction the suspect was."

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y22...-statement.jpg
He meant "house number".
__________________
What a fool believes, no wise man has the power to reason away. What seems to be, is always better than nothing.

2 prints, same midtarsal crock..., I mean break?
LTC8K6 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:23 AM   #259
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,759
Originally Posted by Cylinder View Post
"I would say maybe 45% [of his head and face] were covered in blood. He had a substantial amount of dried blood on his cheeks and on the back of his head."

...

Blood on arms amd hands

...

Blood on face

...

Cleaned blood from head and face - a "signifigant amount" of dried blood. "It took a while to clean him up."
45% of head and face covered with blood.
Anyone care to offer a theory as to how Martin managed to keep this blood off of him while he was repeatedly bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground and trying to smother him with his hands?
__________________
Lost your faith in humanity?

Click here to have it restored.

Or here.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:23 AM   #260
Cylinder
Philosopher
 
Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,168
Motion to Set Reasonable Bond

Quote:
Mr. Zimmerman's failure to advise the Court of the existence of the donated funds at the initial bail hearing was wrong and Mr. Zimmerman accepts responsibility for his part in allowing the Court to be misled as to his true financial circumstances. Counsel, however, points to Mr. Zimmerman's voluntary discosure of the fund and immediate surrender of any interest in the donated money through transfer of the fund to counsel to deposit in trust. Mr. Zimmerman has no control over any of the money in the legal defense fund at this point in time and while the fund is authorized to pay Mr. Zimmerman's reasonable living expenses, those expenditures must be approved by the independant administrator.
__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm
Cylinder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:28 AM   #261
sgtbaker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
You are literally taking these things to extremes.

Memory studies are not proof of anything. You can never be sure. Some people have good memories some people have bad ones. Just like with most everything there is a bell curve.

We do know that, according to Z, he is on the lower end of that bell curve when it comes to memory. But then again, we have proof that he is a liar and a conspirator from the jailhouse phone calls.

I say they are a wash.

So, in light of that, and the size of the change in his story, and the clear motive for the change, I am going to have to err on the side of the he is trying to make his story show him in the best light as possible.

That's not to say that someone who truly used self defense wouldn't do the same as well.

There's just no way to know at this point if he is innocent or not.
I am not deciding innocence. I am saying if we have variations (some rather stark variations) in witness testimony, and we have stark variations in Zimmerman's testimony; where we can attribute memory in one, it must be admitted that memory is certainly possible in the other.

What I am confronting; Zimmerman is lying, how can anyone not know the name of the street?
Well, he certainly had trouble over the phone. Was that an elaborate setup, so he can later claim he didn't know or is it entirely possible that this guy really, really blows when it comes to directions?

His story has changed so he must be lying.

In the 911 call, "Are you following him?"
"yeah..."

In his initial interview, he states that he got out to get definitive address and to see what direction Trayvon ran, coincidentally, a moment after the operator asked him which direction he ran (which, IMHO, makes that claim plausible).

Now back to the 29th interview, he said, "once he said not to follow him, and I wasn't following him..." he emphasises following. "...I was just going in the same direction he was, once he said..." and then Serino cuts him off, then he says, "I thought he was long gone." Singleton says, at this point, the other day, you didn't tell me that you got out right after you said he was running. When I asked you if you looked for him, you told me no. In the first interview, she did not ask him that, directly, he did say he got out to get an address and to see which direction Trayvon ran. Then, he says that dispatcher asked, "where are you?" and he told dispatcher, "I am trying to find out where he went." In the second part of that interview, he says a shorter version of the same thing, the dispatcher asked him if he was following him, and he replied that he didn't know where he was at.


Lastly, if he lied once.... I think it is perfectly fair to lack trust in his statements. I think it's bunk to say well he lied once, so everything must be a lie. There is a difference in seeing where things are lining up and assuming he is telling the truth.
sgtbaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:28 AM   #262
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Anyone care to offer a theory as to how Martin managed to keep this blood off of him while he was repeatedly bashing Zimmerman's head into the ground and trying to smother him with his hands?
Another curiosity:

Puzzle me this...

Dude A hits dude B with a punch to the nose.
Knocks dude B down.
Dude B bleeds from his nose and lip
Dude A continues to punch nose/face over and over
Dude B face becomes bloodied
Dude A slams head.
More blood on dude B.
Dude A puts hands on bloody mouth and nose to smother.
Dude A then runs hand alongside torso of dude B to reach for gun.
Dude B tightens arm to lock dude A's hand to successfully reach behind to command gun.
Dude B shoots, kills.

******
Forensic evidence: Dude A has no blood or DNA of Dude B on hands, under nails on cuffs, or lower sleeves.
Dude B's clothing have no torso smear of blood on either shirt or jacket.

It's a puzzle, dude.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:30 AM   #263
sgtbaker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He meant "house number".
Didn't he actually specifically say that the signs were on the houses?
sgtbaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:38 AM   #264
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by LTC8K6 View Post
He meant "house number".
Not only are you accepting as rock solid truth all of Z's statement, you're taking his actual written statement captured that night - and telling us what he meant to say?

That's pushing devotion a bit too far, wouldn't you say?
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:38 AM   #265
sgtbaker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
Another curiosity:

Puzzle me this...

Dude A hits dude B with a punch to the nose.
Knocks dude B down.
Dude B bleeds from his nose and lip
Dude A continues to punch nose/face over and over
Dude B face becomes bloodied
Dude A slams head.
More blood on dude B.
Dude A puts hands on bloody mouth and nose to smother.
Dude A then runs hand alongside torso of dude B to reach for gun.
Dude B tightens arm to lock dude A's hand to successfully reach behind to command gun.
Dude B shoots, kills.

******
Forensic evidence: Dude A has no blood or DNA of Dude B on hands, under nails on cuffs, or lower sleeves.
Dude B's clothing have no torso smear of blood on either shirt or jacket.

It's a puzzle, dude.
Did any of the witness report him beating himself up, between the time that they arrived and the police arrived? Did the police, at any time when he was in custody, report him assaulting himself? Regardless of whether or not you think they are severe, they exist. He has cuts and lumps on the back of his head, a broken nose, and scratches on his face. Is it odd that Trayvon did not have any blood on him? Yes, however, where do you think GZ got his injuries from?
sgtbaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:45 AM   #266
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by sgtbaker View Post
Did any of the witness report him beating himself up, between the time that they arrived and the police arrived? Did the police, at any time when he was in custody, report him assaulting himself? Regardless of whether or not you think they are severe, they exist. He has cuts and lumps on the back of his head, a broken nose, and scratches on his face. Is it odd that Trayvon did not have any blood on him? Yes, however, where do you think GZ got his injuries from?
Your first two question are ridiculous on their face.

There are many scenarios, many of which do not include taking at face value what the accused murderer says as fact.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:49 AM   #267
Cylinder
Philosopher
 
Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,168
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
Your first two question are ridiculous on their face.
Yes they are. IIRC, sarge was mocking that weeks ago when those theories were being proposed here on this very board.

You weren't in on that, were you?
__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm
Cylinder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:49 AM   #268
WildCat
NWO Master Conspirator
 
WildCat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Albany Park, Chicago
Posts: 53,864
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
33 in 3 years.

That's a record for most folks.
That's wildly different from any documentation I've seen, posted much earlier in this thread.

Do you have a cite?
WildCat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:52 AM   #269
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by WildCat View Post
That's wildly different from any documentation I've seen, posted much earlier in this thread.

Do you have a cite?
Yes.

Apparently Zimmerman found an awful lot of people suspicious.

For example:
Feb. 2, 2012 – 8:29 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “BM lsw: black leather jacket, black hat, printed PJ pants, he keeps going going to this” location

Oct. 1, 2011 – 12:53 a.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black male suspects “20–30 YOA in [white] Chevy poss Impala at the gate of the community.” Zimmerman “does not recognize subjs or veh and is concerned due to recent” burglaries in the area

Aug. 6, 2011 – 10:20 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Two black males, one wearing a black tank top and black shorts, the second wearing a black t-shirt and jeans … “Subjs are in their teens”

Aug. 3, 2011 – 6:45 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Black male last seen wearing a white tank top and black shorts … Zimmerman “believes subject is involved in recent” burglaries in the neighborhood

April 22, 2011 – 7:09 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: Juvenile black male “apprx 7–9” years old, four feet tall “skinny build short blk hair” last seen wearing a blue t-shirt and blue shorts

Oct. 2, 2010 – 1:55 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Disturbance
Report: Zimmerman reports “blu jeep grand Cherokee female driver yelling at elderly passengers … windows are tinted” … “the veh was rocking back and forth and he could hear the female yelling”

Type: TEL
Subject: Suspicious activity
Report: “Gold Caprice … male driving with no headlights … speeding”
Subject: Conflict
Report: “Landlord is trying to take [Zimmerman’s] money for rent … and home in foreclosure”

46 Calls: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html

All 46 calls are listed. Count 'em up. 33 in the last 3 years.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:54 AM   #270
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: A floating island above the clouds
Posts: 24,250
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
Your first two question are ridiculous on their face.

There are many scenarios, many of which do not include taking at face value what the accused murderer says as fact.
Well, he "should" have Z's blood on him.

"Unless," as House might say, "he doesn't."
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:54 AM   #271
Cylinder
Philosopher
 
Cylinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,168
Media Motion to Intervene

The media group is arguing for W9 statements and all jail calls that have been transcribed.
__________________
If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed ; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than live as slaves. - Winston Churchill, The Gathering Storm
Cylinder is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:56 AM   #272
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by Cylinder View Post
Yes they are. IIRC, sarge was mocking that weeks ago when those theories were being proposed here on this very board.

You weren't in on that, were you?
See if you can find one post from me saying as much.

You're welcome to try.

In the interest of saving time though, I'll let you know: you can't.
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 07:58 AM   #273
TheL8Elvis
Illuminator
 
TheL8Elvis's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 4,552
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
See if you can find one post from me saying as much.

You're welcome to try.

In the interest of saving time though, I'll let you know: you can't.
No, your silly conspiracy theories all involve the police lying to cover things up ... right ?

Still waiting for the cite in the report that describes the cartridge underneath the body ...
TheL8Elvis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:05 AM   #274
crimresearch
Alumbrado
 
crimresearch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,618
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.
Even repeating it a thousand times isn't going to convince people who have no interest in the facts.
crimresearch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:08 AM   #275
Unabogie
Philosopher
 
Unabogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 8,920
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
No, your silly conspiracy theories all involve the police lying to cover things up ... right ?

Still waiting for the cite in the report that describes the cartridge underneath the body ...
Serious question: is proposing an alternate explanation for some of Zimmerman's injuries in which an admitted killer, with a demonstrable willingness to lie, may have inflicted some of his own injuries, a "conspiracy theory"? Especially when we're trying to explain why even though he claims Trayvon placed both hands on his bleeding nose and abrasioned face, none of the blood transferred to his hands?

Aside from that, my question was actually about how he looked on his walkthrough. He claimed he was punched in the face 30 times, including 3 times directly to the nose. He claims that he was hit with what felt like "bricks", meaning they were not light punches, but extremely hard punches. Did he look like a beating victim to you (well, aside from the three bandaids he put on his own head before the taping)?

Last edited by Unabogie; 25th June 2012 at 08:11 AM.
Unabogie is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:10 AM   #276
sgtbaker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by Rare Truth View Post
See if you can find one post from me saying as much.

You're welcome to try.

In the interest of saving time though, I'll let you know: you can't.
Are you just pointing out something weird or are you actually getting at something by posting this oddity? What is it you think it means?
sgtbaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:11 AM   #277
crimresearch
Alumbrado
 
crimresearch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 10,618
Originally Posted by Cylinder View Post
Zimmerman had called the police and knew they were en route. Is there something sinister about him asking that someone call his wife?

Also, how Flashlight Man's seemingly callous question give any insight into Zimmerman's story or state-of-mind?

It may come as a shock to you, but people sometimes say really dumb things in awkward situations. Human nature tells us not to ask the awkward question so often we go straight from there to the stupid one.
Don't you get it? Everything proves that Zimmerman is lying.
Even if someone else said it, even if it never existed, no matter what, it can be spun until it breaks, if needed, to prove his guilt.
crimresearch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:12 AM   #278
sgtbaker
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,141
Originally Posted by Unabogie View Post
Serious question: is proposing and alternate explanation for some of Zimmerman's injuries in which an admitted killer, with a demonstrable willingness to lie, may have inflicted some of his own injuries, a "conspiracy theory"? Especially when we're trying to explain why even though he claims Trayvon placed both hands on his bleeding nose and abrasioned face, none of the blood transferred to his hands?

Aside from that, my question was actually about how he looked on his walkthrough. He claimed he was punched in the face 30 times, including 3 times directly to the nose. He claims that he was hit with what felt like "bricks", meaning they were not light punches, but extremely hard punches. Did he look like a beating victim to you (well, aside from the three bandaids he put on his own head before the taping)?
So you are proposing that GZ self inflicted those wounds which makes my questions not all that silly. Is there any report, considering from less than a minute after the gunshot, till his photos were taken, Zimmerman was never alone, it is reasonable to assume that those self inflicted injuries would have been witnessed by someone.
sgtbaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:13 AM   #279
Rare Truth
Graduate Poster
 
Rare Truth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The road less travelled
Posts: 1,373
Originally Posted by TheL8Elvis View Post
No, your silly conspiracy theories all involve the police lying to cover things up ... right ?

Still waiting for the cite in the report that describes the cartridge underneath the body ...
Always a run to the Conspiracy Theory theme to deride a poster.

I'm still waiting for you to back up this: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...ostcount=12699

You refused to reply. Is this the point at which you tell me again I'm on ignore?
Rare Truth is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Old 25th June 2012, 08:13 AM   #280
johnny karate
... and your little dog too.
 
johnny karate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,759
Originally Posted by sgtbaker View Post
Did any of the witness report him beating himself up, between the time that they arrived and the police arrived? Did the police, at any time when he was in custody, report him assaulting himself? Regardless of whether or not you think they are severe, they exist. He has cuts and lumps on the back of his head, a broken nose, and scratches on his face. Is it odd that Trayvon did not have any blood on him? Yes, however, where do you think GZ got his injuries from?
So... No theory as to how Martin remained amazingly free of Zimmerman's blood, then. Just straw men arguments.

Anyone else want give it a go?

How did Martin keep all of that blood off of him while he repeatedly punched Zimmerman's bloody face, repeatedly bashed Zimmerman's bloody head onto the ground, and attempted to smother him with his bare hands?
__________________
Lost your faith in humanity?

Click here to have it restored.

Or here.
johnny karate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Back to Top
Closed Thread

JREF Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:58 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.