Higgs Boson Discovered?! - Page 2

I Ratant · 3rd July 2012, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Darat

It is hardly surprising that the scientists haven't found the Higgs boson, isn't it meant to be something to do with gravity? Yet they try to detect it in a vacuum!

.
Gravity can't be worked-around very easily.
It gets everything all the time, especially in a lab, even a lab on the ISS.

Brown · 3rd July 2012, 12:08 PM

Already I am concerned that the Higgs Boson announcement will lead to a rush of "fat jokes," if it hasn't done so already. Get ready for wit like this:

"Scientists say that the Higgs Boson is the particle that gives a body its weight. Looks like Chris Christie has discovered a whole bunch of Higgs Bosons already!"

Olowkow · 3rd July 2012, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by quarky

Hence, dog.

Hmmm, "The barking boson", I like it.

jadebox · 3rd July 2012, 12:36 PM

Laboratory accidentally posts video heralding discovery of a new particle on its website ahead of scheduled announcement:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...?newsfeed=true

-- Roger

Puppycow · 3rd July 2012, 05:14 PM

So its mass is 100 times the mass of a proton, but it doesn't interact with normal matter.

So the Higgs is dark matter, right? The dark matter question has been answered.

edd · 3rd July 2012, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

So its mass is 100 times the mass of a proton, but it doesn't interact with normal matter.

So the Higgs is dark matter, right? The dark matter question has been answered.

No. Dark matter needs to be stable. A stable Higgs wouldn't decay into detectable channels.

CapelDodger · 3rd July 2012, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by quarky

I suppose there will be a Satan particle as well?

From what I've read the super-symmetry experiment is coming up empty, so apparently not. Super-symmetric particles (sparticles?) are apparently proving obvious by their absence.

Of course the super-symmetry squad may be terminally compromised by Satanist infiltration, it's not for me to say. It could be down to something as simple as the god particle having better hair.

Puppycow · 3rd July 2012, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by edd

No. Dark matter needs to be stable. A stable Higgs wouldn't decay into detectable channels.

How stable though? Is a half-life of a trillion years stable enough to account for dark matter but still detectable (barely).

ETA: It seems to me like, to make an analogy, that there's a big part of the jigsaw puzzle of physics that has been missing its piece, and now we've found a piece that looks like it's the right size and shape, and it just remains to put the piece into the puzzle and see if it fits well enough.

Turgor · 3rd July 2012, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

How stable though? Is a half-life of a trillion years stable enough to account for dark matter but still detectable (barely).

ETA: It seems to me like, to make an analogy, that there's a big part of the jigsaw puzzle of physics that has been missing its piece, and now we've found a piece that looks like it's the right size and shape, and it just remains to put the piece into the puzzle and see if it fits well enough.

Why do you mention a hypothetical half life many times the age of the universe and the piece we found that looks the right size and shape, which means amongst other things a halflife measured in the tiniest fractions of seconds, like you're talking about the same particle?

MattusMaximus · 3rd July 2012, 07:21 PM

For anyone interested in a pretty reasonable layman's explanation, the Guardian has a pretty neat, quick video on explaining the Higgs field and Higgs boson:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/vi...gs-boson-video

I particularly like the lunch tray with the ping pong balls and sugar. Nice visual

thebicyclist · 3rd July 2012, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by MattusMaximus

Despite the fact that I hate the headline ("God particle"

) I am very, very interested to see what this is all about. Looks like a big announcement coming on Wednesday...

Anyone here got an inside scoop on this?

Great!, I've got something to blame next time I gain weight

Orphia Nay · 3rd July 2012, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dragoonster

Who was that idiot physicist who coined the term? If he ever won a Nobel he should now be stripped of it.

Originally Posted by mike3

Apparently, this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Lederman

And yes, he won a Nobel.

Originally Posted by a_unique_person

From what I have read, it was originally called the 'goddam' particle, but it wasn't seen to be a polite way to refer to it. Hence the slight change.

Lederman appears to have coined both terms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Particle_(book)

Quote:

Lederman said he gave the Higgs boson the nickname "The God Particle" because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive,"[5][6][7] but jokingly added that a second reason was because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing."[8][9]

Puppycow · 3rd July 2012, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by Turgor

Why do you mention a hypothetical half life many times the age of the universe and the piece we found that looks the right size and shape, which means amongst other things a halflife measured in the tiniest fractions of seconds, like you're talking about the same particle?

Sorry. Perhaps I've misunderstood what this thing is. I'm only a layman.

So, the Higgs boson only exists for a fraction of a second before decomposing?

ETA: I looked it up. Sorry, never mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

Quote:

Like other massive particles (e.g. the top quark and W and Z bosons), Higgs bosons created in particle accelerators decay long before they reach any of the detectors. However, the Standard Model precisely predicts the possible modes of decay and their probabilities. This allows events in which a Higgs was created to be identified by examining the decay products.

ETA2: But if the Higgs boson is that last particle of the standard model and it doesn't account for dark matter, then dark matter must be something outside the standard model, right?

ben m · 3rd July 2012, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Puppycow

How stable though? Is a half-life of a trillion years stable enough to account for dark matter but still detectable (barely).

The Higgs boson is an unstable (something like 10^-25 seconds) particle whose interactions are, in the context of the Standard Model, 100% known.

Dark matter is thought to be some sort of stable or nearly-stable particle---more than a trillion years, i.e. 10^+20 seconds, is probably the right ballpark. It's not described in the Standard Model. We have a forest of hypotheses about what interactions it might have, but no idea if any of these hypotheses are true.

Quote:

ETA: It seems to me like, to make an analogy, that there's a big part of the jigsaw puzzle of physics that has been missing its piece, and now we've found a piece that looks like it's the right size and shape, and it just remains to put the piece into the puzzle and see if it fits well enough.

That's not a bad analogy. The Standard Model tells us to expect a heavyish, spin-1 particle, which couples to mass, which is produced in thus-and-such collisions, which decays to heavy particles and occasionally photons, etc.. We go to LHC and (if the rumors are true) we've seen a heavy particle, we've seen it produced in the expected ballpark, we've seen two of its decay options. It seems like a likely fit for the known "Higgs" hole in the Standard Model ... but we haven't yet placed it securely in that hole. One extra bump or divot could mean a mis-fit.

OnlyTellsTruths · 3rd July 2012, 10:09 PM

New reuters article from a few minutes ago. Some new info in it supposedly.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86008K20120704

Puppycow · 3rd July 2012, 11:53 PM

Watch Live: Higgs Boson Announcement

http://www.havewefoundthehiggsyet.com/

Orphia Nay · 4th July 2012, 12:33 AM

CERN live webcast - the source of the announcement - on now.

http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/play_higgs.html

Puppycow · 4th July 2012, 12:38 AM

Nature also has an article on it:
http://www.nature.com/news/physicist...-higgs-1.10932

Darat · 4th July 2012, 12:43 AM

Damn - I was hoping that it wasn't found - because it's getting rather boring these days in physics what with the world behaving as we thought it did!

Darat · 4th July 2012, 12:50 AM

I see that they are still waiting on the results from Atlas, I expect the results from Atlas will be really, really big and really, really impressive and have great hair.

Normal Dude · 4th July 2012, 12:52 AM

Having problems running the cast - anyone want to me fill me in?

Orphia Nay · 4th July 2012, 12:55 AM

ETA: that was the CMS presentation's conclusion.

ben m · 4th July 2012, 01:03 AM

CMS results:

The two high-resolution, actually-see-a-peak searches (Higgs decaying to two photons, and Higgs decaying to two Z-bosons, both decaying to ee or mu mu) combine for a 5+ sigma discovery. Clear as a bell, you can see the Higgs peaks with the naked eye. In the ZZ channel that means what looked like (eyeballing my memory of the viewgraph) 7-8 Higgs-like events on top of a nearly zero background.

Several the other channels, of the sort that see broad mass-insensitive excesses, have slightly lower-than-expected counts, which pulls the all-combined discovery number to 4.9 sigma.

The ATLAS talk is ongoing ...

Orphia Nay · 4th July 2012, 01:13 AM

Live blog of the CERN talks:

http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/0...inar-liveblog/

commandlinegamer · 4th July 2012, 01:32 AM

Wouldn't it be ironic that in the year of the Earth ending (thanks Mayans!), we discover how the universe works?

lionking · 4th July 2012, 01:39 AM

Fantastic. Perhaps particle physics will be front page news for the first time in decades.

ben m · 4th July 2012, 01:41 AM

ATLAS is also at 5 sigma! Aaaaaaand I'm off to bed.

lionking · 4th July 2012, 01:43 AM

There have already been "the End of Physics" blogs.

Aarrrgggh

BobHaulk · 4th July 2012, 01:44 AM

Maybe they'll be able to draw us a picture of this "particle". PMSL
This nonsense should be in the conspiracy theory section along with black holes, dark matter and gravity.

Orphia Nay · 4th July 2012, 01:54 AM

The concluding slide of the CERN presentation:

BobHaulk · 4th July 2012, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by Orphia Nay

The concluding slide of the CERN presentation:

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...RN040712-3.gif

So they still haven't found what they were looking for, just like Bono

Ocelot · 4th July 2012, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by geni

If they did do you think there is the faintest possibility that they would say anything? Media management generaly isn't a strong point in science but the LHC mob have shown a degree of competence in that area and are well aware that any rumours anywhere online will find their way to the the media fairly quickly.

ahem

Originally Posted by jadebox

Laboratory accidentally posts video heralding discovery of a new particle on its website ahead of scheduled announcement:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...?newsfeed=true

-- Roger

And Comic Sans

Tubbythin · 4th July 2012, 02:56 AM

Originally Posted by BobHaulk

So they still haven't found what they were looking for, just like Bono

No. More like "They're pretty sure they've found what they're looking for but they want to know more about it". Not aware of a U2 song by that name.

Orphia Nay · 4th July 2012, 03:05 AM

They seem confident they've found A Higgs boson, but just aren't 100% certain whether it's THE Higgs boson, or whether there is just one Higgs boson.

Darat · 4th July 2012, 03:10 AM

These aren't the bosons you're looking for...

Jack by the hedge · 4th July 2012, 03:11 AM

Next time they go looking for a new particle how can they go one better?

I predict the Beatles particle.

Maartenn100 · 4th July 2012, 03:14 AM

Scepticme must try to undermine the "Higgsteria-bias".

Higgsteria-bias = "Because of all our efforts, because of the million dollar project, we must find that Higgsparticle. The standard model must be right, because a lot of money, certificates and titles are depending on it. Otherwise, we stare in the unknown."

Higgsteria-quotes:

"We are closer....", "it could be the Higgsparticle". "It's a new particle, it must be that Higgsparticle. etc..."

If a pseudoscientist would mention 'it could be this' or 'it could be that', the critical thinker would answer: 'it could be this or that' is no science at all.

So, criticism to undermine it, instead of searching for comfirmation (confirmationbias because of Higgsteria) is the critical weapon against the Higgsteria, to search for the truth. The more Higgsteria, the more 'falsification-tests' needed.

Dave Rogers · 4th July 2012, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by Brown

Already I am concerned that the Higgs Boson announcement will lead to a rush of "fat jokes," if it hasn't done so already. Get ready for wit like this:

"Scientists say that the Higgs Boson is the particle that gives a body its weight. Looks like Chris Christie has discovered a whole bunch of Higgs Bosons already!"

Yo' momma's so fat, she gives the Higgs Boson its weight.

Dave

Tubbythin · 4th July 2012, 03:27 AM

Originally Posted by Maartenn100

If a pseudoscientist would mention 'it could be this' or 'it could be that', the critical thinker would answer: 'it could be this or that' is no science at all.

You are getting confused between conservatism and speculation.

Orphia Nay · 4th July 2012, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by lionking

Fantastic. Perhaps particle physics will be front page news for the first time in decades.

It's been the top 'top story' on Google News all day.

3rd July 2012, 12:08 PM	#42
Brown Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Twin Cities, Canada Posts: 12,145	Already I am concerned that the Higgs Boson announcement will lead to a rush of "fat jokes," if it hasn't done so already. Get ready for wit like this: "Scientists say that the Higgs Boson is the particle that gives a body its weight. Looks like Chris Christie has discovered a whole bunch of Higgs Bosons already!"
	__________________ Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it. Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I am very sorry. I wish it were otherwise. -- The Day The Earth Stood Still, screenplay by Edmund H. North "Don't you get me wrong. I only want to know." -- Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar, lyrics by Tim Rice

3rd July 2012, 12:30 PM	#43
Olowkow Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,790	Originally Posted by quarky Hence, dog. Hmmm, "The barking boson", I like it.
Olowkow Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 4,790	__________________ Our remedies oft in ourselves do lie, which we ascribe to heaven. --Shakespeare

3rd July 2012, 12:36 PM	#44
jadebox Muse Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Oviedo, FL Posts: 904	Laboratory accidentally posts video heralding discovery of a new particle on its website ahead of scheduled announcement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...?newsfeed=true -- Roger
	__________________ "Everyone should own a little jade box." - Harry Nilsson

3rd July 2012, 05:14 PM	#45
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,704	So its mass is 100 times the mass of a proton, but it doesn't interact with normal matter. So the Higgs is dark matter, right? The dark matter question has been answered.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

3rd July 2012, 05:16 PM	#46
edd Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,547	Originally Posted by Puppycow So its mass is 100 times the mass of a proton, but it doesn't interact with normal matter. So the Higgs is dark matter, right? The dark matter question has been answered. No. Dark matter needs to be stable. A stable Higgs wouldn't decay into detectable channels.
edd Graduate Poster Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,547	__________________ When I look up at the night sky and think about the billions of stars out there, I think to myself: I'm amazing. - Peter Serafinowicz

3rd July 2012, 12:05 PM	#41
I Ratant Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 15,305	Originally Posted by Darat It is hardly surprising that the scientists haven't found the Higgs boson, isn't it meant to be something to do with gravity? Yet they try to detect it in a vacuum! . Gravity can't be worked-around very easily. It gets everything all the time, especially in a lab, even a lab on the ISS.

3rd July 2012, 05:50 PM	#47
CapelDodger Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Cardiff, South Wales Posts: 16,740	Originally Posted by quarky I suppose there will be a Satan particle as well? From what I've read the super-symmetry experiment is coming up empty, so apparently not. Super-symmetric particles (sparticles?) are apparently proving obvious by their absence. Of course the super-symmetry squad may be terminally compromised by Satanist infiltration, it's not for me to say. It could be down to something as simple as the god particle having better hair.
	__________________ It's a poor sort of memory that only works backward - Lewis Carroll (1832-1898) God can make a cow out of a tree, but has He ever done so? Therefore show some reason why a thing is so, or cease to hold that it is so - William of Conches, c1150

3rd July 2012, 05:52 PM	#48
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,704	Originally Posted by edd No. Dark matter needs to be stable. A stable Higgs wouldn't decay into detectable channels. How stable though? Is a half-life of a trillion years stable enough to account for dark matter but still detectable (barely). ETA: It seems to me like, to make an analogy, that there's a big part of the jigsaw puzzle of physics that has been missing its piece, and now we've found a piece that looks like it's the right size and shape, and it just remains to put the piece into the puzzle and see if it fits well enough.
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Last edited by Puppycow; 3rd July 2012 at 05:57 PM.

3rd July 2012, 07:18 PM	#49
Turgor Critical Thinker Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Amsterdam Posts: 276	Originally Posted by Puppycow How stable though? Is a half-life of a trillion years stable enough to account for dark matter but still detectable (barely). ETA: It seems to me like, to make an analogy, that there's a big part of the jigsaw puzzle of physics that has been missing its piece, and now we've found a piece that looks like it's the right size and shape, and it just remains to put the piece into the puzzle and see if it fits well enough. Why do you mention a hypothetical half life many times the age of the universe and the piece we found that looks the right size and shape, which means amongst other things a halflife measured in the tiniest fractions of seconds, like you're talking about the same particle?

3rd July 2012, 07:21 PM	#50
MattusMaximus Intellectual Gladiator Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the midst of a vast, beautiful & uncaring universe Posts: 14,175	For anyone interested in a pretty reasonable layman's explanation, the Guardian has a pretty neat, quick video on explaining the Higgs field and Higgs boson: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/vi...gs-boson-video I particularly like the lunch tray with the ping pong balls and sugar. Nice visual
	__________________ Visit my blog: The Skeptical Teacher The Times They Are A-Changin'

3rd July 2012, 07:43 PM	#51
thebicyclist Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 109	Originally Posted by MattusMaximus Despite the fact that I hate the headline ("God particle" ) I am very, very interested to see what this is all about. Looks like a big announcement coming on Wednesday... Anyone here got an inside scoop on this? Great!, I've got something to blame next time I gain weight
thebicyclist Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 109

3rd July 2012, 08:22 PM	#52
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,345	Originally Posted by Dragoonster Who was that idiot physicist who coined the term? If he ever won a Nobel he should now be stripped of it. Originally Posted by mike3 Apparently, this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Lederman And yes, he won a Nobel. Originally Posted by a_unique_person From what I have read, it was originally called the 'goddam' particle, but it wasn't seen to be a polite way to refer to it. Hence the slight change. Lederman appears to have coined both terms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Particle_(book) Quote: Lederman said he gave the Higgs boson the nickname "The God Particle" because the particle is "so central to the state of physics today, so crucial to our final understanding of the structure of matter, yet so elusive,"[5][6][7] but jokingly added that a second reason was because "the publisher wouldn't let us call it the Goddamn Particle, though that might be a more appropriate title, given its villainous nature and the expense it is causing."[8][9]
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

3rd July 2012, 09:02 PM	#53
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,704	Originally Posted by Turgor Why do you mention a hypothetical half life many times the age of the universe and the piece we found that looks the right size and shape, which means amongst other things a halflife measured in the tiniest fractions of seconds, like you're talking about the same particle? Sorry. Perhaps I've misunderstood what this thing is. I'm only a layman. So, the Higgs boson only exists for a fraction of a second before decomposing? ETA: I looked it up. Sorry, never mind. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson Quote: Like other massive particles (e.g. the top quark and W and Z bosons), Higgs bosons created in particle accelerators decay long before they reach any of the detectors. However, the Standard Model precisely predicts the possible modes of decay and their probabilities. This allows events in which a Higgs was created to be identified by examining the decay products. ETA2: But if the Higgs boson is that last particle of the standard model and it doesn't account for dark matter, then dark matter must be something outside the standard model, right?
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Last edited by Puppycow; 3rd July 2012 at 09:27 PM.

3rd July 2012, 09:27 PM	#54
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638	Originally Posted by Puppycow How stable though? Is a half-life of a trillion years stable enough to account for dark matter but still detectable (barely). The Higgs boson is an unstable (something like 10^-25 seconds) particle whose interactions are, in the context of the Standard Model, 100% known. Dark matter is thought to be some sort of stable or nearly-stable particle---more than a trillion years, i.e. 10^+20 seconds, is probably the right ballpark. It's not described in the Standard Model. We have a forest of hypotheses about what interactions it might have, but no idea if any of these hypotheses are true. Quote: ETA: It seems to me like, to make an analogy, that there's a big part of the jigsaw puzzle of physics that has been missing its piece, and now we've found a piece that looks like it's the right size and shape, and it just remains to put the piece into the puzzle and see if it fits well enough. That's not a bad analogy. The Standard Model tells us to expect a heavyish, spin-1 particle, which couples to mass, which is produced in thus-and-such collisions, which decays to heavy particles and occasionally photons, etc.. We go to LHC and (if the rumors are true) we've seen a heavy particle, we've seen it produced in the expected ballpark, we've seen two of its decay options. It seems like a likely fit for the known "Higgs" hole in the Standard Model ... but we haven't yet placed it securely in that hole. One extra bump or divot could mean a mis-fit.
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638

3rd July 2012, 10:09 PM	#55
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,779	New reuters article from a few minutes ago. Some new info in it supposedly. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...86008K20120704
OnlyTellsTruths Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 5,779	__________________ ________________________

3rd July 2012, 11:53 PM	#56
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,704	Watch Live: Higgs Boson Announcement http://www.havewefoundthehiggsyet.com/
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22 Last edited by Puppycow; 3rd July 2012 at 11:55 PM.

4th July 2012, 12:33 AM	#57
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,345	CERN live webcast - the source of the announcement - on now. http://webcast.web.cern.ch/webcast/play_higgs.html
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

4th July 2012, 12:38 AM	#58
Puppycow Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Japan Posts: 15,704	Nature also has an article on it: http://www.nature.com/news/physicist...-higgs-1.10932
	__________________ “Some men are born mediocre, some men achieve mediocrity, and some men have mediocrity thrust upon them. With Major Major it had been all three.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

4th July 2012, 12:43 AM	#59
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,739	Damn - I was hoping that it wasn't found - because it's getting rather boring these days in physics what with the world behaving as we thought it did!
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

4th July 2012, 12:50 AM	#60
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,739	I see that they are still waiting on the results from Atlas, I expect the results from Atlas will be really, really big and really, really impressive and have great hair.
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008

4th July 2012, 12:52 AM	#61
Normal Dude Space Shuttle Door Gunner Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: W/ The Evil Council Posts: 3,959	Having problems running the cast - anyone want to me fill me in?
	__________________ "At some point, you just get past the horror of someone having these beliefs, and begin to enjoy the sheer comedy of it all." Complexity And I dont care if your name is Norm or Jack, Or Dick. I dont see why you have to post your name everytime you make a comment./ its IRRELIVANT -Rwalsh

4th July 2012, 12:55 AM	#62
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,345	ETA: that was the CMS presentation's conclusion.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum. Last edited by Orphia Nay; 4th July 2012 at 01:06 AM.

4th July 2012, 01:03 AM	#63
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638	CMS results: The two high-resolution, actually-see-a-peak searches (Higgs decaying to two photons, and Higgs decaying to two Z-bosons, both decaying to ee or mu mu) combine for a 5+ sigma discovery. Clear as a bell, you can see the Higgs peaks with the naked eye. In the ZZ channel that means what looked like (eyeballing my memory of the viewgraph) 7-8 Higgs-like events on top of a nearly zero background. Several the other channels, of the sort that see broad mass-insensitive excesses, have slightly lower-than-expected counts, which pulls the all-combined discovery number to 4.9 sigma. The ATLAS talk is ongoing ...
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638

4th July 2012, 01:13 AM	#64
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,345	Live blog of the CERN talks: http://www.quantumdiaries.org/2012/0...inar-liveblog/
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

4th July 2012, 01:32 AM	#65
commandlinegamer Philosopher Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Mazes of Menace Posts: 5,886	Wouldn't it be ironic that in the year of the Earth ending (thanks Mayans!), we discover how the universe works?
	__________________ He bade me take any rug in the house.

4th July 2012, 01:39 AM	#66
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,644	Fantastic. Perhaps particle physics will be front page news for the first time in decades.
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

4th July 2012, 01:41 AM	#67
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638	ATLAS is also at 5 sigma! Aaaaaaand I'm off to bed.
ben m Illuminator Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,638

4th July 2012, 01:43 AM	#68
lionking In the Peanut Gallery Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Melbourne Posts: 29,644	There have already been "the End of Physics" blogs. Aarrrgggh
	__________________ A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject. Sir Winston Churchill

4th July 2012, 01:44 AM	#69
BobHaulk Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 690	Maybe they'll be able to draw us a picture of this "particle". PMSL This nonsense should be in the conspiracy theory section along with black holes, dark matter and gravity.
BobHaulk Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 690

4th July 2012, 01:54 AM	#70
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,345	The concluding slide of the CERN presentation:
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum. Last edited by Orphia Nay; 4th July 2012 at 02:01 AM.

4th July 2012, 02:04 AM	#71
BobHaulk Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 690	Originally Posted by Orphia Nay The concluding slide of the CERN presentation: http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w...RN040712-3.gif So they still haven't found what they were looking for, just like Bono
BobHaulk Muse Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 690

4th July 2012, 02:25 AM	#72
Ocelot Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: London Posts: 3,016	Originally Posted by geni If they did do you think there is the faintest possibility that they would say anything? Media management generaly isn't a strong point in science but the LHC mob have shown a degree of competence in that area and are well aware that any rumours anywhere online will find their way to the the media fairly quickly. ahem Originally Posted by jadebox Laboratory accidentally posts video heralding discovery of a new particle on its website ahead of scheduled announcement: http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...?newsfeed=true -- Roger And Comic Sans
	__________________ EDL = English Disco Lovers

4th July 2012, 02:56 AM	#73
Tubbythin Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,206	Originally Posted by BobHaulk So they still haven't found what they were looking for, just like Bono No. More like "They're pretty sure they've found what they're looking for but they want to know more about it". Not aware of a U2 song by that name.
Tubbythin Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 3,206

4th July 2012, 03:05 AM	#74
Orphia Nay Penguilicious Spodmaster. Tagger Join Date: May 2005 Location: Ponylandistan Presidential Palace (above the Spods' stables). Posts: 28,345	They seem confident they've found A Higgs boson, but just aren't 100% certain whether it's THE Higgs boson, or whether there is just one Higgs boson.
	__________________ Are you an ex-Truther? Please share your story. ~ The Australasian Skeptics Forum.

4th July 2012, 03:10 AM	#75
Darat Lackey Administrator / JREF Forum Liaison Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: South East, UK Posts: 64,739	These aren't the bosons you're looking for...
	__________________ If it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart? - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn 1918-2008