What relevance does Obama's biological father or religion have?

[chuck4842]

None of the above examples equate to an act of war, and most weren't considered worthy to be broadcast on International news across the globe. I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

[kookbreaker]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

None of the above examples equate to an act of war, and most weren't considered worthy to be broadcast on International news across the globe. I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

Really?

Quit while you're behind.

[TjW]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

None of the above examples equate to an act of war, and most weren't considered worthy to be broadcast on International news across the globe. I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

Not any better, really, as an example. Wikipedia says there are 2.6 million Muslims in the U.S., at least a quarter of which are U.S. born. That's at least eight hundred thousand U.S. citizens who are Muslim and are or will be eligible to be president, as opposed to the two thousand or so members of the Communist Party.
So by one reckoning, this is about 400 times worse than your previous example.

[Loss Leader]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

None of the above examples equate to an act of war, and most weren't considered worthy to be broadcast on International news across the globe. I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

When George Washington was leading our troops, he was fighting against King George.

Also, Tim McVeigh was christian. Should we suspect Obama because he's christian? What about the other forty-odd guys, including the presidents who were sitting and elected while McVeigh was in the news?

[cwalner]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

None of the above examples equate to an act of war, and most weren't considered worthy to be broadcast on International news across the globe. I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

Really, nobody questioned the citizenship of Michael Dukakis when he ran for president, during the cold war when Mikhail (Michael) Gorbachev was the head of the Soviet Union.

[LSSBB]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

None of the above examples equate to an act of war, and most weren't considered worthy to be broadcast on International news across the globe. I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

So IRA bombings conducted as part of a drive for independance from th UK don't equate to an act of war?

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I also used communist as an example when muslim may have been a more accurate example of the current subject, since both Obama's biological father and step-father were muslim, and radical muslims were the attackers of 911.

You make the distinction between Muslim, and radical Muslim, yet you don't understand that there is a difference between the 2?

I like the Tim Mc Veigh "example"....he was a radical christian...his actions DID NOT REPRESENT the thinking of "ordinary" Christians....just as radical Muslims actions DO NOT REPRESENT the thinking of "ordinary" Muslims.


Are you getting a clue, chuck, or am I wasting my time?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by R.A.F.

You make the distinction between Muslim, and radical Muslim, yet you don't understand that there is a difference between the 2?

I like the Tim Mc Veigh "example"....he was a radical christian...his actions DID NOT REPRESENT the thinking of "ordinary" Christians....just as radical Muslims actions DO NOT REPRESENT the thinking of "ordinary" Muslims.


Are you getting a clue, chuck, or am I wasting my time?

If someone sneak attacks the US and leaves evidence proclaiming their religion wouldn't it be reasonable to question that religions community? When Mcveigh attacked I wasn't cautious of men in turbans. I kept an eye out for skinhead and klan like people. You are right in assuming I don't understand your point.

[cwalner]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If someone sneak attacks the US and leaves evidence proclaiming their religion wouldn't it be reasonable to question that religions community? When Mcveigh attacked I wasn't cautious of men in turbans. I kept an eye out for skinhead and klan like people. You are right in assuming I don't understand your point.

Clearly.

Why is it that the terrorists attacks from a Muslim group make you wary of all Muslims, but a terrorist attack from a Christian group does not make you ware of all Christians?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by cwalner

Clearly.

Why is it that the terrorists attacks from a Muslim group make you wary of all Muslims, but a terrorist attack from a Christian group does not make you ware of all Christians?

Pathetic attempt to place words in my mouth again. I have both muslim and christian friends. I've said in extremely simple to understand terms, I felt it was odd when the US was attacked by muslims, a man would run for office with a muslim name( 1st ever ), AND win. I'd feel the same way if Russia bombed NY and the next election had a russian name as the GOP ticket.

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by Loss Leader

When George Washington was leading our troops, he was fighting against King George.

Also, Tim McVeigh was christian. Should we suspect Obama because he's christian? What about the other forty-odd guys, including the presidents who were sitting and elected while McVeigh was in the news?

straw man

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If someone sneak attacks the US and leaves evidence proclaiming their religion wouldn't it be reasonable to question that religions community?

Apparently you are unaware of what Muslims actually believe... they DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES believe in harming a child.

In other words, THE TERRORISTS, RESPONSIBLE WERE NOT PRACTICING THE MUSLIM RELIGION.

Quote:

When Mcveigh attacked I wasn't cautious of men in turbans. I kept an eye out for skinhead and klan like people.

Your personal paranoia is irrational and irrelevant, and is avoiding the point, being that McVeigh DID NOT REPRESENT THE CHRISTIAN RELIGION when he attacked....meaning there is NO REASON to believe that "ordinary" (NOT RADICAL) christians will behave like McVeigh.

Quote:

You are right in assuming I don't understand your point.

Are you really so "dense" that you don't see my point?, or is it simply that you do not "want" to see my point, because it makes you look like a fool.

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by cwalner

Clearly.

Why is it that the terrorists attacks from a Muslim group make you wary of all Muslims, but a terrorist attack from a Christian group does not make you ware of all Christians?

Why are you afraid of this question, chucky??

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by Travis

Whoa, Whoa, WHOA!

What in the hell is a wealthy Communist?

Li Yanhong, Liang Wengen , Zong Qinghou, Julio Lobo,General Khamtai Siphandon, Pham Nat Vuong....

Although I WAS using it in an analogy, Muslim would've been better. I avoided the Muslims because of the obviously sensitive members here.

Originally Posted by Travis

And where is the law that states Americans can't vote in a Communist as President if we so choose?

Better yet, where did I say that? You're reading and comprehension skills could use some refresher courses.

Originally Posted by Travis

Also if both parents have to be natural born citizens for you to be a natural born citizen how many people in America are now ineligible because their great, great, great grandparents were immigrants?

This was obviously addressed when Washington became president, and the next few presidents. Feel free to read about it. I'm not in the business of spoon-feeding easily accessible information.

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by R.A.F.

Why are you afraid of this question, chucky??

I never said I was wary of all Muslims and I'm tired of answering questions after being misquoted.

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by R.A.F.

In other words, THE TERRORISTS, RESPONSIBLE WERE NOT PRACTICING THE MUSLIM RELIGION.

Osam bin Laden- not Muslim? Does anybody practice their religion perfectly?
Are you defending a religion?

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I never said I was wary of all Muslims...

Backpeddling? How long will you be able to maintain this before you contradict yourself....oh, wait.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

If someone sneak attacks the US and leaves evidence proclaiming their religion wouldn't it be reasonable to question that religions community?

Not if we knew that the organization responsible wasn't the Muslim religion.

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Osam bin Laden- not Muslim?

Why do you continue IGNORING the fact that Muslims, and radical Muslims ARE NOT THE SAME THING?

Is it because it completely destroyes your argument? there is no shame in admitting error, but there is shame in ignoring the rational answer.


....and you're really starting to shame yourself, here....

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by R.A.F.

Not if we knew that the organization responsible wasn't the Muslim religion.

Are you saying investigators didn't use profiling when they discovered who was responsible for 911, and that the profiling did not include the Muslim community? Also does that make the investigators guilty of the same prejudicial slander you are accusing me of?

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Are you saying...

No, I'm didn't say any of that crap...stop avoiding the issue...


Do you understand that there is a difference between Muslims and radical Muslims...YES OR NO.

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by R.A.F.

Why do you continue IGNORING the fact that Muslims, and radical Muslims ARE NOT THE SAME THING?

Is it because it completely destroyes your argument? there is no shame in admitting error, but there is shame in ignoring the rational answer.


....and you're really starting to shame yourself, here....

I officially and repeatedly acknowledge they aren't the same and I officially and repeatedly acknowledge I never have stated this.

You should be ashamed if you ever again say I did.

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by R.A.F.

No, I'm didn't say any of that crap...stop avoiding the issue...


Do you understand that there is a difference between Muslims and radical Muslims...YES OR NO.

refer to post 5602 and many others several times. Are you a broken record or afflicted with tourets?

[KDLarsen]

What on earth does all of this have to do with President Obama's birth certificate / SSN and the conspiracy theories centered upon those?

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by KDLarsen

What on earth does all of this have to do with President Obama's birth certificate / SSN and the conspiracy theories centered upon those?

We were discussing "Natural Born Citizen" when I noted Binghams interpretation that if one parent wasn't , than the child isn't either. Bingham cited security risks to wit I agreed, relating attackers of 911 as Muslim and Obama's Muslim name, to wit I'm considered a prejudiced racist.

Which reminds me, would the following phrase be categorized as a radical christian if it came from a Christian Pastor- "God damn America!"

[JayUtah]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

We were discussing "Natural Born Citizen" when I noted Binghams interpretation that if one parent wasn't , than the child isn't either.

Bingham doesn't make the rules. His opinion is irrelevant. There are a lot of people who think they know what "natural-born citizen" should mean. Fortunately the people we elected to decide such things have rendered a decision and according to that decision Obama is eligible to be President of the United States.

Quote:

Bingham cited security risks...

Bingham invoked a paranoid delusion that you seem to have subscribed to. But please, tell us another Commie baby-daddy story. Those are funny.

Quote:

...to wit I'm considered a prejudiced racist.

You were considered a racist because you claimed it was natural to be suspicious of someone with an Arabic-sounding name. That's racism.

Quote:

Which reminds me, would the following phrase be categorized as a radical christian if it came from a Christian Pastor- "God damn America!"

I doubt that a Christian pastor would say such a thing. The problem people are pointing out, instead, is that there is a radical branch of Christianity, and it is blatantly trying to take over the reigns of U.S. government. You seem more intent on chasing down imaginary, farfetched threats to the Constitution based on racism and the 100-year-old interpretation of some doddering old single legislator, than on the real and present threat, admitted to by its proponents.

If you'd rather chase down pixels in a bad PDF, then yeah, good luck with that.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Which reminds me, would the following phrase be categorized as a radical christian if it came from a Christian Pastor- "God damn America!"

Ummm.

Wright *is* a Christian pastor -- he was ordained into and served the United Church of Christ until he retired.

[Travis]

I take it he'd have been fine with Obama if he had changed his name to Applepie Jesus McBaseball.

Can't argue with that logic.

[Travis]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Although I WAS using it in an analogy, Muslim would've been better. I avoided the Muslims because of the obviously sensitive members here.

We are sensitive to bigotry. Being a Muslim is no reason to exclude someone from public office.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Better yet, where did I say that? You're reading and comprehension skills could use some refresher courses.

Then you know that some convoluted pregnancy plot isn't necessary to get a Communist in power.

But you still seem to think that ideology (you've changed it to being a Muslim) is passed on genetically which is weird.

My grandparents were Lutheran. My parents were Mormon. I am an atheist.

People are individuals and will go their own way when it comes to religion and other personal philosophies.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

This was obviously addressed when Washington became president, and the next few presidents. Feel free to read about it. I'm not in the business of spoon-feeding easily accessible information.

And yet you still don't realize the implications of this insane idea:

Originally Posted by chuck4842

We were discussing "Natural Born Citizen" when I noted Binghams interpretation that if one parent wasn't , than the child isn't either.

Think about it for just a second.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Bingham cited security risks to wit I agreed, relating attackers of 911 as Muslim and Obama's Muslim name, to wit I'm considered a prejudiced racist.

Because, yeah, saying we shouldn't trust people because of religion or names is pretty darned prejudiced. In fact it is the quintessential example of being prejudiced.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Which reminds me, would the following phrase be categorized as a radical christian if it came from a Christian Pastor- "God damn America!"

Nope. There are lots of legitimate reasons to say that and yet not be a subversive radical anything.

[JayUtah]

Originally Posted by Travis

I take it he'd have been fine with Obama if he had changed his name to Applepie Jesus McBaseball.

"Applepie" sounds like a hippie. Unelectable; too radical left.

"Jesus" is obviously Mexican. Again, too ethnic to be elected President.

"McBaseball" is obviously Irish. Middle Easterners are the new Irish, you know.

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

I officially and repeatedly acknowledge they aren't the same...

Then why do you insist on treating them the same???

Quote:

You should be ashamed if you ever again say I did.

You continually, and consciously "confused" the difference between the 2.

You should be ashamed for jerking this board around...

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by JayUtah

You were considered a racist because you claimed it was natural to be suspicious of someone with an Arabic-sounding name. That's racism.

Yep....wonder how long it will take before chuck denies this?

[cwalner]

Originally Posted by TSR

Ummm.

Wright *is* a Christian pastor -- he was ordained into and served the United Church of Christ until he retired.

And when looked at in full context, it can be construed as a very patriotic quote, if, like me and some others who have posted here, you think that pointing out the flaws that the USA still has, so that they can be corrected is a form of patriotism.

If you look at the whole quote, Reverend Wright was pointing out how people use the phrase 'God Bless America' as a way to ignore its imperfections. He then goes down a litany of specific imperfections (mostly related to race and racism) and completes each with 'God Damn America!'.

It is clear from the full context that he is not literally asking his Christian God to bring damnation upon the USA, but is calling for his country (and specifically his parishioners) to take up the mantle of correcting the lingering racism in American society and politics.

You can feel free to disagree with his vision of a more perfect union, and oppose him on those grounds, but to claim that he (and by extension his parishioners - including Barack Obama) are not patriotic because of that rhetoric just doesn't fly will me and won't with many other critical thinkers.

[chuck4842]

Originally Posted by JayUtah

You were considered a racist because you claimed it was natural to be suspicious of someone with an Arabic-sounding name. That's racism.

You conveniently left out during an act of war committed by attackers, all of which were muslim with mid-eastern names.
That's my thesis, twist it as you like. When a crime is committed, investigators use profiling to identify the suspect. When an act of war is committed , even more so.

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

You conveniently left out during an act of war committed by attackers, all of which were muslim with mid-eastern names.

Irrelevant...did you have some reason to believe that Obama was in "cahoots" with the terrorists?

If not, then you are just an ignorant racist.

Quote:

That's my thesis, twist it as you like.

If by "thesis" you mean ignorant racist ramblings, and if by "twist", you mean accurately describing your racist words, then sure.

[R.A.F.]

Originally Posted by cwalner

It is clear from the full context that he is not literally asking his Christian God to bring damnation upon the USA, but is calling for his country (and specifically his parishioners) to take up the mantle of correcting the lingering racism in American society and politics.

So chuck ignored the context in order to promote his racist, ignorant, idiotic ideas?


What was it chuck said about twisting words.

[Loss Leader]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

Are you saying investigators didn't use profiling when they discovered who was responsible for 911, and that the profiling did not include the Muslim community?

Nobody in this thread has said anything like that. What they have said is that being suspicious of Muslims because of the 9/11 attacks is racist.

Quote:

Also does that make the investigators guilty of the same prejudicial slander you are accusing me of?

Any investigator who was suspicious of Muslims in general after 9/11 was guilty of the same prejudice I am accusing you of. As regards slander, the legal definition does not apply.

Originally Posted by chuck4842

When Mcveigh attacked I wasn't cautious of men in turbans. I kept an eye out for skinhead and klan like people.

So, basically, just everybody at the meeting?

[Travis]

Originally Posted by chuck4842

You conveniently left out during an act of war committed by attackers, all of which were muslim with mid-eastern names.
That's my thesis, twist it as you like. When a crime is committed, investigators use profiling to identify the suspect. When an act of war is committed , even more so.

I don't even need to twist your words. You just said we should engage in racial, religious and name profiling.

The idea that Obama should have been kept from running for office because of the name he took from a father he hardly knew and the actions of terrorists with whom he did not associate or share any semblance of a value system (religion or otherwise) is just the height of xenophobic bigotry.

[Myron Proudfoot]

Originally Posted by cwalner

And when looked at in full context, it can be construed as a very patriotic quote, if, like me and some others who have posted here, you think that pointing out the flaws that the USA still has, so that they can be corrected is a form of patriotism.

If you look at the whole quote, Reverend Wright was pointing out how people use the phrase 'God Bless America' as a way to ignore its imperfections. He then goes down a litany of specific imperfections (mostly related to race and racism) and completes each with 'God Damn America!'.

It is clear from the full context that he is not literally asking his Christian God to bring damnation upon the USA, but is calling for his country (and specifically his parishioners) to take up the mantle of correcting the lingering racism in American society and politics.

You can feel free to disagree with his vision of a more perfect union, and oppose him on those grounds, but to claim that he (and by extension his parishioners - including Barack Obama) are not patriotic because of that rhetoric just doesn't fly will me and won't with many other critical thinkers.

And he blamed the 9/11 attacks on American gays and said it was God's punishment! Oh wait, no, that was a couple rightwing WHITE pastors who said that, Falwell and Robertson. oh well, that's DIFFERENT.

[Myron Proudfoot]

Of course Muslims come in all races and skin colors (I used to know an American Indian Muslim from New Mexico) so as soon as we start profiling swarthy mideastern young men with names like "Mohammed" all a would-be terrorist has to do is recruit people that don't fit the profile. Forget so called "Political Correctness"----profiling is STUPID.

[TSR]

Originally Posted by Myron Proudfoot

profiling is STUPID.

Yeah, they always draw them with those abnormally big heads and tiny little bodies. But what can you expect for $5 from someone that couldn't even afford a proper booth at the State Fair...