ex-satanist stories....

wakawakawaka · 16th July 2012, 04:31 PM

this one is really strange....he even lists details of someone whom he claims to be a satanic priest...http://www.magus.org.uk/articles.html and heres the story if anyone actually whats to read it...www.geocities.com/joopbersee/Magus.pdf so does this sound like a typical satanic panic story..except about 20 years too late

thebicyclist · 16th July 2012, 04:48 PM

It's more entertaining then most ex-gay stories.

wakawakawaka · 16th July 2012, 05:51 PM

what i find suprising and amusing is that this guy even gives out ecplict details about a supposed satanic priest....but doestn give a name...

Accidental Martyr · 16th July 2012, 08:13 PM

Mike Warnke is a pretty well known "ex-satanist". Interesting story (to me anyway.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Warnke#_

Irish Murdoch · 17th July 2012, 05:17 AM

The "Swallowing the Camel" blog has some fascinating and beautifully researched histories of "ex-satanists" (the scare quotes are significant!):

http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...gal-witch.html

jimfish · 17th July 2012, 06:20 AM

Satanic cults and ritualistic abuse stories are always grippingly depraved. I remember reading "Thanks For the Memories", where a woman claimed she was the sex slave of Bob Hope. With a premise like that, and chapters called "JFK and the Sex Shuttle", and "All the Way with LBJ", it's impossible not to pick up. It's like a lurid gossip mag, with stories of Sylvester Stallone having cocaine-fuelled mother/daughter group-sex in Hawaii, or where the author is stuffed naked into Bing Crosby's closet. There's even a bit where Ronald Reagan watches dolphin porn.

The thought processes involved to come up with such stories...I can't even imagine.

Aepervius · 17th July 2012, 06:27 AM

SAtanism cult never made sense at face value. I mean , come on, if you believe in Satan, that means you bought the christianity schtick with everlasting heaven/hell. In which case it make no sense whatsoever to accept a reward for a few decade and get shafted for eternity. If you did not believe in everlasting punishment, then you made your own religion and it is not christian satanism except in name.

ExMinister · 17th July 2012, 01:56 PM

I don't get what they think is going to happen if they "win." What is the ultimate objective? I mean, like Aepervius says, satan is a Christian concept, and if you accept the existence of satan then I guess you accept the whole deal. And if you accept that, then the battle is uneven. I mean, God is God right, not an angel but creator of all things, including angels. Lucifer/satan is an angel, just a fallen one (according to Revelation), so isn't God by definition always going to be more powerful than his angels?

godless dave · 17th July 2012, 02:00 PM

Maybe they buy the basics of the Christian story, but they think God is lying about being the all-powerful deity who will eventually win. Maybe they think Satan has a chance of winning.

ExMinister · 17th July 2012, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch

The "Swallowing the Camel" blog has some fascinating and beautifully researched histories of "ex-satanists" (the scare quotes are significant!):

http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...gal-witch.html

Thanks for this link. Interesting blog. I read Irvine's book years ago and this article does seem to be nicely researched and well done.

ExMinister · 17th July 2012, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

Maybe they buy the basics of the Christian story, but they think God is lying about being the all-powerful deity who will eventually win. Maybe they think Satan has a chance of winning.

Maybe so, if they think God is lying.

They do seem to think Satan has a chance of winning, at least the few (two) I have known.

I just got to thinking that it seems illogical based on what Christianity says about God's role in the universe versus that of satan. * What would make him powerful enough to defeat God? It would make more sense maybe if he were taking on another angel like himself.

But yes, if they think God is lying, then maybe that's it.

* And if you read a history of the origin of satan, it is even more interesting, as it seems satan started out being an accuser of humanity who was more like God's evil side-kick, as in the story of Job. It seems like the whole fallen angel thing wasn't really even defined until the last book in the Bible, which is where satan is finally associated with the snake in the garden of eden.

godless dave · 18th July 2012, 07:23 AM

ExMinister, have you ever read "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman?

ExMinister · 18th July 2012, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by godless dave

ExMinister, have you ever read "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman?

No, why?

kedo1981 · 18th July 2012, 08:52 AM

Just more lying Christian SOBs, they’re just role playing.
It so much more interesting to be a Satanist/Pimp/witch/warlock /drug dealer/etc, and then get saved that it is to just be a smart aleck teenager who just didn’t feel like going to church.

godless dave · 18th July 2012, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by ExMinister

No, why?

First and foremost, because it's hilarious. But also it addresses the God vs. Satan conflict. The two protagonists are on opposing sides, and each theorizes that the outcome of the battle is not as much of a done deal as they've been led to believe.

Axiom_Blade · 18th July 2012, 10:01 AM

I read the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey when I was 18. LaVey was the founder of the Church of Satan, the first "Satanic" religion. LaVeyan Satanists don't believe in an actual Satan; Satan is more like their term for a force of nature that they can draw upon. In fact, LaVeyan Satanism has very few supernatural elements in it at all. It's Objectivism (a la Ayn Rand) with costumes and ritual. (LaVey insisted that the costumes and ritual were necessary because humanity has a psychological need for them. All of their spells are psychology based. From my interpretation of LaVey, he as much admitted that you couldn't "hex" somebody who didn't believe in hexes.) The majority of Satanists are LaVeyan, but there are other, crazier, non-LaVeyan Satanists, who do believe in a deity they call Satan.

As a religion, I don't have much of a problem with it. Most of the problems I have with it are the same problems I have with Objectivism and Libertarianism, really. I think that it's far and away safer than Christianity, Islam, Scientology, and many of the other, more popular religions.

ExMinister · 18th July 2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

First and foremost, because it's hilarious. But also it addresses the God vs. Satan conflict. The two protagonists are on opposing sides, and each theorizes that the outcome of the battle is not as much of a done deal as they've been led to believe.

I usually read nonfiction but love humor and this sounds like a fun change. Will see if I can get it on kindle. Thanks!

Susheel · 18th July 2012, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by ExMinister

I usually read nonfiction but love humor and this sounds like a fun change. Will see if I can get it on kindle. Thanks!

It is and it is worth it...also give Small Gods by Terry Pratchett a go.

Marduk · 18th July 2012, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by ExMinister

satan is a ~~Christian~~ Jewish concept,

ftfy

Mark6 · 18th July 2012, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Marduk

ftfy

Where did you get that idea? I read all of Old Testament; do not recall Satan mentioned even once. Or any "fallen angels" for that matter. The snake in Garden of Eden is just a... talking snake.

Checkmite · 18th July 2012, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade

Satanists don't believe in an actual Satan; Satan is more like their term for a force of nature that they can draw upon. In fact, LaVeyan Satanism has very few supernatural elements in it at all.

...except for that imaginary "force of nature that they can draw upon", which LaVey could've named anything but chose to name "Satan" in order to troll Christians.

ExMinister · 18th July 2012, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by Mark6

Where did you get that idea? I read all of Old Testament; do not recall Satan mentioned even once. Or any "fallen angels" for that matter. The snake in Garden of Eden is just a... talking snake.

No, this is true. Satan is mentioned in the story of Job, literally "the adversary." It is just the whole fallen angel thing that comes later.

Marduk · 18th July 2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Mark6

Where did you get that idea? I read all of Old Testament; do not recall Satan mentioned even once. Or any "fallen angels" for that matter. The snake in Garden of Eden is just a... talking snake.

You might want to read it again then
particularly
Job 1:6-12 Satan mentioned 7 times
Job 2:1-8 Satan mentioned 7 times
Zechariah 3:1-3 Satan mentioned 3 times
1 Chronicles 21:1 Satan mentioned once

You may also consider that the name Satan is a Hebrew noun, so even if it didn't appear in the Bible it would still be a jewish concept

MNBrant · 18th July 2012, 04:11 PM

i clicked submit and crashed mr computer connection. maybe it was the adversary

godless dave · 19th July 2012, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by ExMinister

No, this is true. Satan is mentioned in the story of Job, literally "the adversary." It is just the whole fallen angel thing that comes later.

Much later - the fallen angel thing isn't in the New Testament either.

ExMinister · 19th July 2012, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by godless dave

Much later - the fallen angel thing isn't in the New Testament either.

It's funny - when I wrote that above, I was thinking of this:

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

From Revelation. But actually satan is here associated with the serpent, and cast out with "his angels" but he himself is not referred to as an angel.

I knew the passage in Isaiah referred to a Babylonian king, but I didn't realize fallen angels are not mentioned anywhere in the Old or New Testaments until looking into it this morning.

So Satan is viewed in connection with the serpent, associated with a dragon, cast out, the prince of this world, but nowhere does it say he is an angel, and yet that is what most people seem to believe.

Biblically speaking then wouldn't it be more correct to view him as a more of a talking evil serpent or dragon than an angel?

godless dave · 19th July 2012, 12:06 PM

I think it's one of those beliefs that's so old most Christians just assume it's in the Bible - like Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. Or the Trinity, for that matter.

Foster Zygote · 19th July 2012, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr

Mike Warnke is a pretty well known "ex-satanist". Interesting story (to me anyway.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Warnke#_

Ah yes, I remember Mike Warnke. During my evangelical upbringing I heard a number of his stories. I seem to remember him on James Dobson's Focus on the Family radio program as well. I remember that pretty much everyone bought his outlandish fictions hook, line and sinker. Later, when I had only recently abandoned my Christian beliefs, I was not the least bit surprised that he was exposed as a fraud.

Foster Zygote · 19th July 2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by godless dave

I think it's one of those beliefs that's so old most Christians just assume it's in the Bible - like Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. Or the Trinity, for that matter.

Or the conversion of Pontius Pilate, or the Rapture.

Foster Zygote · 19th July 2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch

The "Swallowing the Camel" blog has some fascinating and beautifully researched histories of "ex-satanists" (the scare quotes are significant!):

http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...gal-witch.html

Thanks. Bookmarked.

Marduk · 21st July 2012, 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by ExMinister

Biblically speaking then wouldn't it be more correct to view him as a more of a talking evil serpent or dragon than an angel?

Christian theology has only three types of being
God
Angels/Demons
Humans
and as he was once in league with God as in his role in Job, it can only be possible that he was once an Angel
so it doesn't actually say it, but there's very little support for any other conclusion

Brattus · 22nd July 2012, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by Marduk

Christian theology has only three types of being
God
Angels/Demons
Humans
and as he was once in league with God as in his role in Job, it can only be possible that he was once an Angel
so it doesn't actually say it, but there's very little support for any other conclusion

What about Christ? Christ wasn't a God, angel/demon or human.
Satan could be what Christ was. Satan could be just a talking snake.
A talking snake wouldn't be a God, angel/demon or human.

A talking snake wouldn't be as weird as a hearing snake though because all snakes are born without ears.

Marduk · 22nd July 2012, 02:46 AM

Originally Posted by Brattus

What about Christ? Christ wasn't a God, .

oh really ?

Jeff Corey · 22nd July 2012, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by Brattus

What about Christ? Christ wasn't a God, angel/demon or human.
Satan could be what Christ was. Satan could be just a talking snake.
A talking snake wouldn't be a God, angel/demon or human.

A talking snake wouldn't be as weird as a hearing snake though because all snakes are born without ears.

How about eyelids?

sentry579 · 23rd July 2012, 05:21 PM

How many of these ex-Satanists have memories recovered via hypnosis? Or is that just the speciality of their victims?

CynicalSkeptic · 24th July 2012, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by Brattus

A talking snake wouldn't be as weird as a hearing snake though because all snakes are born without ears.

It's actually a Serpent, not a snake.

wakawakawaka · 16th August 2012, 10:47 AM

his is a part of a letter i got from the book writter I dont know to laugh or be shocked
You have never seen Lama Tibetan monks levitating and moving swiftly in a circle of 23 monks

round the bell on Thursday Tony . . so you are really way out of your league here.

I do not have time debating your ‘man made’ theories about karate coming from Japan, but I

noticed you purposely left out the Zen part of Karate’ Zen – being the fundamental occult aspect

and why it was and is used by Tibetan monks NEVER in public.

2 - Guru Roby is a real living person, as I have his entire service on CD, where he shares openly

how he taught westerns at the age of 7 to do yoga and this sermon/ service was given to Phil

Botha on a C90 cassette in the early eighties and I digitally re-mastered it myself.

3 - And Voodoo isn’t African – it is a demonic subject/ doctrine used IN Satanism.

And though countless blacks use it in Jamaica, Haiti and in Africa . . . . the only tiny part that

is even closely relevant to an African – is the song they sing to the demon of Voodoo until

the human high priest goes thru’ lycanthropy (which you obviously will refuse to believe)

and his outward flesh bone and body changes 200% into that of whatever animal he deems fit.

Unfortunately for you and millions like you – the word is used in the best dictionaries around

the globe because the FACT event has taken place, does take place and has to take place on

the 13th Feb every year – black Mass.

4 - Something I’ve already placed in the follow up, which you also won’t believe – NO African person

is allowed to be recruited, join Satanism, ever attend or be part of ANY ritual or ceremony at all.

So if you want to call the devil a racist – be my guest, but I’m JUST sharing directly from the only

high priest of Satanism – who converted to Christ and was personally was possessed by his spirit

guide when he HAD TO teach those doctrines of devils weekly to the thousands attending.

GeneMachine · 16th August 2012, 11:06 AM

Originally Posted by godless dave

Much later - the fallen angel thing isn't in the New Testament either.

Actually, not much later - the as far as I recall, the whole fallen angel thing comes from the non-canonical Book of Enoch, around 300 BCE.

aggle-rithm · 16th August 2012, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Foster Zygote

Ah yes, I remember Mike Warnke. During my evangelical upbringing I heard a number of his stories. I seem to remember him on James Dobson's Focus on the Family radio program as well. I remember that pretty much everyone bought his outlandish fictions hook, line and sinker. Later, when I had only recently abandoned my Christian beliefs, I was not the least bit surprised that he was exposed as a fraud.

The sad thing is that he could have been very successful without all the ridiculous Satanist claims. He's a very funny and entertaining speaker.

Of course, the Satanist angle is what got him noticed in the first place. Then it just took on a life of its own.

Quietus · 17th August 2012, 01:36 PM

I can't believe that idiot is connected to my country.

And the largest online bookseller here wants to sell his nonsense for R217.

If I want to read absolute cowdung, I can buy Fifty Shades of Grey for R90.

Unfortunately, belief in this nonsense is still strong in conservative religious circles here.

16th July 2012, 04:31 PM	#1
wakawakawaka Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vancouver,Canada Posts: 459	ex-satanist stories.... this one is really strange....he even lists details of someone whom he claims to be a satanic priest...http://www.magus.org.uk/articles.html and heres the story if anyone actually whats to read it...www.geocities.com/joopbersee/Magus.pdf so does this sound like a typical satanic panic story..except about 20 years too late

16th July 2012, 04:48 PM	#2
thebicyclist Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 111	It's more entertaining then most ex-gay stories.
thebicyclist Scholar Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 111

16th July 2012, 08:13 PM	#4
Accidental Martyr Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Treading water in a sea of retarded sexuality and bad poetry. Posts: 1,852	Mike Warnke is a pretty well known "ex-satanist". Interesting story (to me anyway.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Warnke#_
	__________________ "Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!" Kurt Vonnegut

17th July 2012, 05:17 AM	#5
Irish Murdoch Critical Thinker Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 373	The "Swallowing the Camel" blog has some fascinating and beautifully researched histories of "ex-satanists" (the scare quotes are significant!): http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...gal-witch.html
	__________________ Most people would rather die than think. In fact they do. (Bertrand Russell)

17th July 2012, 06:20 AM	#6
jimfish Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 269	Satanic cults and ritualistic abuse stories are always grippingly depraved. I remember reading "Thanks For the Memories", where a woman claimed she was the sex slave of Bob Hope. With a premise like that, and chapters called "JFK and the Sex Shuttle", and "All the Way with LBJ", it's impossible not to pick up. It's like a lurid gossip mag, with stories of Sylvester Stallone having cocaine-fuelled mother/daughter group-sex in Hawaii, or where the author is stuffed naked into Bing Crosby's closet. There's even a bit where Ronald Reagan watches dolphin porn. The thought processes involved to come up with such stories...I can't even imagine.
jimfish Critical Thinker Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 269	Last edited by jimfish; 17th July 2012 at 07:43 AM.

16th July 2012, 05:51 PM	#3
wakawakawaka Critical Thinker Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Vancouver,Canada Posts: 459	what i find suprising and amusing is that this guy even gives out ecplict details about a supposed satanic priest....but doestn give a name...

17th July 2012, 06:27 AM	#7
Aepervius Philosopher Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bierland. I mean , germany. Posts: 7,761	SAtanism cult never made sense at face value. I mean , come on, if you believe in Satan, that means you bought the christianity schtick with everlasting heaven/hell. In which case it make no sense whatsoever to accept a reward for a few decade and get shafted for eternity. If you did not believe in everlasting punishment, then you made your own religion and it is not christian satanism except in name.
	__________________ Omnes Blessant Ultima necat "I want, and this is my last and most dear wish, I want that the last of the king be strangled with the guts of the last priest" (Jean Meslier / 1664-1729 / Testament) A very early french atheist, a catholic priest in life.

17th July 2012, 01:56 PM	#8
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	I don't get what they think is going to happen if they "win." What is the ultimate objective? I mean, like Aepervius says, satan is a Christian concept, and if you accept the existence of satan then I guess you accept the whole deal. And if you accept that, then the battle is uneven. I mean, God is God right, not an angel but creator of all things, including angels. Lucifer/satan is an angel, just a fallen one (according to Revelation), so isn't God by definition always going to be more powerful than his angels?
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

17th July 2012, 02:00 PM	#9
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,131	Maybe they buy the basics of the Christian story, but they think God is lying about being the all-powerful deity who will eventually win. Maybe they think Satan has a chance of winning.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

17th July 2012, 02:23 PM	#10
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch The "Swallowing the Camel" blog has some fascinating and beautifully researched histories of "ex-satanists" (the scare quotes are significant!): http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...gal-witch.html Thanks for this link. Interesting blog. I read Irvine's book years ago and this article does seem to be nicely researched and well done.
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

17th July 2012, 02:39 PM	#11
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	Originally Posted by godless dave Maybe they buy the basics of the Christian story, but they think God is lying about being the all-powerful deity who will eventually win. Maybe they think Satan has a chance of winning. Maybe so, if they think God is lying. They do seem to think Satan has a chance of winning, at least the few (two) I have known. I just got to thinking that it seems illogical based on what Christianity says about God's role in the universe versus that of satan. * What would make him powerful enough to defeat God? It would make more sense maybe if he were taking on another angel like himself. But yes, if they think God is lying, then maybe that's it. * And if you read a history of the origin of satan, it is even more interesting, as it seems satan started out being an accuser of humanity who was more like God's evil side-kick, as in the story of Job. It seems like the whole fallen angel thing wasn't really even defined until the last book in the Bible, which is where satan is finally associated with the snake in the garden of eden.
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

18th July 2012, 07:23 AM	#12
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,131	ExMinister, have you ever read "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman?
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

18th July 2012, 08:37 AM	#13
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	Originally Posted by godless dave ExMinister, have you ever read "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman? No, why?
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

18th July 2012, 08:52 AM	#14
kedo1981 Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: ohio Posts: 2,081	Just more lying Christian SOBs, they’re just role playing. It so much more interesting to be a Satanist/Pimp/witch/warlock /drug dealer/etc, and then get saved that it is to just be a smart aleck teenager who just didn’t feel like going to church.
	__________________ "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good" (I Thessalonians 5:21) I readily admit I don’t know enough to say for sure that there is no God. But I do know enough so say that anyone who claims to know the mind and will of a being such as God is a liar. I have no problem with Jesus, but his fan club sucks!

18th July 2012, 09:27 AM	#15
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,131	Originally Posted by ExMinister No, why? First and foremost, because it's hilarious. But also it addresses the God vs. Satan conflict. The two protagonists are on opposing sides, and each theorizes that the outcome of the battle is not as much of a done deal as they've been led to believe.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

18th July 2012, 10:01 AM	#16
Axiom_Blade Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,748	I read the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey when I was 18. LaVey was the founder of the Church of Satan, the first "Satanic" religion. LaVeyan Satanists don't believe in an actual Satan; Satan is more like their term for a force of nature that they can draw upon. In fact, LaVeyan Satanism has very few supernatural elements in it at all. It's Objectivism (a la Ayn Rand) with costumes and ritual. (LaVey insisted that the costumes and ritual were necessary because humanity has a psychological need for them. All of their spells are psychology based. From my interpretation of LaVey, he as much admitted that you couldn't "hex" somebody who didn't believe in hexes.) The majority of Satanists are LaVeyan, but there are other, crazier, non-LaVeyan Satanists, who do believe in a deity they call Satan. As a religion, I don't have much of a problem with it. Most of the problems I have with it are the same problems I have with Objectivism and Libertarianism, really. I think that it's far and away safer than Christianity, Islam, Scientology, and many of the other, more popular religions.

18th July 2012, 12:00 PM	#17
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	Originally Posted by godless dave First and foremost, because it's hilarious. But also it addresses the God vs. Satan conflict. The two protagonists are on opposing sides, and each theorizes that the outcome of the battle is not as much of a done deal as they've been led to believe. I usually read nonfiction but love humor and this sounds like a fun change. Will see if I can get it on kindle. Thanks!
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

18th July 2012, 12:13 PM	#18
Susheel Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 528	Originally Posted by ExMinister I usually read nonfiction but love humor and this sounds like a fun change. Will see if I can get it on kindle. Thanks! It is and it is worth it...also give Small Gods by Terry Pratchett a go.
Susheel Muse Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 528	__________________ I've got to get to a library...fast Robert Langdon

18th July 2012, 01:24 PM	#19
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by ExMinister satan is a ~~Christian~~ Jewish concept, ftfy

18th July 2012, 01:34 PM	#20
Mark6 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,176	Originally Posted by Marduk ftfy Where did you get that idea? I read all of Old Testament; do not recall Satan mentioned even once. Or any "fallen angels" for that matter. The snake in Garden of Eden is just a... talking snake.
Mark6 Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 4,176	__________________ Gamemaster: "A horde of rotting zombies is shambling toward you. The sign over the door says 'Accounting'"

18th July 2012, 01:38 PM	#21
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Third in line Posts: 14,887	Originally Posted by Axiom_Blade Satanists don't believe in an actual Satan; Satan is more like their term for a force of nature that they can draw upon. In fact, LaVeyan Satanism has very few supernatural elements in it at all. ...except for that imaginary "force of nature that they can draw upon", which LaVey could've named anything but chose to name "Satan" in order to troll Christians.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

18th July 2012, 01:50 PM	#22
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	Originally Posted by Mark6 Where did you get that idea? I read all of Old Testament; do not recall Satan mentioned even once. Or any "fallen angels" for that matter. The snake in Garden of Eden is just a... talking snake. No, this is true. Satan is mentioned in the story of Job, literally "the adversary." It is just the whole fallen angel thing that comes later.
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	__________________ www.stopsylvia.com

18th July 2012, 02:26 PM	#23
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by Mark6 Where did you get that idea? I read all of Old Testament; do not recall Satan mentioned even once. Or any "fallen angels" for that matter. The snake in Garden of Eden is just a... talking snake. You might want to read it again then particularly Job 1:6-12 Satan mentioned 7 times Job 2:1-8 Satan mentioned 7 times Zechariah 3:1-3 Satan mentioned 3 times 1 Chronicles 21:1 Satan mentioned once You may also consider that the name Satan is a Hebrew noun, so even if it didn't appear in the Bible it would still be a jewish concept

18th July 2012, 04:11 PM	#24
MNBrant Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,165	i clicked submit and crashed mr computer connection. maybe it was the adversary
MNBrant Master Poster Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 2,165

19th July 2012, 07:32 AM	#25
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,131	Originally Posted by ExMinister No, this is true. Satan is mentioned in the story of Job, literally "the adversary." It is just the whole fallen angel thing that comes later. Much later - the fallen angel thing isn't in the New Testament either.
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19th July 2012, 08:08 AM	#26
ExMinister RSL Acolyte Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 2,749	Originally Posted by godless dave Much later - the fallen angel thing isn't in the New Testament either. It's funny - when I wrote that above, I was thinking of this: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. From Revelation. But actually satan is here associated with the serpent, and cast out with "his angels" but he himself is not referred to as an angel. I knew the passage in Isaiah referred to a Babylonian king, but I didn't realize fallen angels are not mentioned anywhere in the Old or New Testaments until looking into it this morning. So Satan is viewed in connection with the serpent, associated with a dragon, cast out, the prince of this world, but nowhere does it say he is an angel, and yet that is what most people seem to believe. Biblically speaking then wouldn't it be more correct to view him as a more of a talking evil serpent or dragon than an angel?
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19th July 2012, 12:06 PM	#27
godless dave Great Dalmuti Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: St. Paul, Minnesota Posts: 6,131	I think it's one of those beliefs that's so old most Christians just assume it's in the Bible - like Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. Or the Trinity, for that matter.
	__________________ "If it's real, then it gets more interesting the closer you examine it. If it's not real, just the opposite is true." - aggle-rithm

19th July 2012, 12:44 PM	#28
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,400	Originally Posted by Accidental Martyr Mike Warnke is a pretty well known "ex-satanist". Interesting story (to me anyway.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Warnke#_ Ah yes, I remember Mike Warnke. During my evangelical upbringing I heard a number of his stories. I seem to remember him on James Dobson's Focus on the Family radio program as well. I remember that pretty much everyone bought his outlandish fictions hook, line and sinker. Later, when I had only recently abandoned my Christian beliefs, I was not the least bit surprised that he was exposed as a fraud.
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19th July 2012, 12:46 PM	#29
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,400	Originally Posted by godless dave I think it's one of those beliefs that's so old most Christians just assume it's in the Bible - like Mary Magdalene being a prostitute. Or the Trinity, for that matter. Or the conversion of Pontius Pilate, or the Rapture.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

19th July 2012, 12:48 PM	#30
Foster Zygote Dental Floss Tycoon Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge Posts: 14,400	Originally Posted by Irish Murdoch The "Swallowing the Camel" blog has some fascinating and beautifully researched histories of "ex-satanists" (the scare quotes are significant!): http://swallowingthecamel.blogspot.c...gal-witch.html Thanks. Bookmarked.
	__________________ It looks just like a Telefunken U47... You'll love it.

21st July 2012, 08:24 AM	#31
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by ExMinister Biblically speaking then wouldn't it be more correct to view him as a more of a talking evil serpent or dragon than an angel? Christian theology has only three types of being God Angels/Demons Humans and as he was once in league with God as in his role in Job, it can only be possible that he was once an Angel so it doesn't actually say it, but there's very little support for any other conclusion

22nd July 2012, 12:15 AM	#32
Brattus Graduate Poster Join Date: May 2007 Location: The bowels of death and despair Posts: 1,223	Originally Posted by Marduk Christian theology has only three types of being God Angels/Demons Humans and as he was once in league with God as in his role in Job, it can only be possible that he was once an Angel so it doesn't actually say it, but there's very little support for any other conclusion What about Christ? Christ wasn't a God, angel/demon or human. Satan could be what Christ was. Satan could be just a talking snake. A talking snake wouldn't be a God, angel/demon or human. A talking snake wouldn't be as weird as a hearing snake though because all snakes are born without ears.
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22nd July 2012, 02:46 AM	#33
Marduk Banned Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Newbury, Berkshire Posts: 10,242	Originally Posted by Brattus What about Christ? Christ wasn't a God, . oh really ?

22nd July 2012, 04:54 AM	#34
Jeff Corey New York Skeptic Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 13,794	Originally Posted by Brattus What about Christ? Christ wasn't a God, angel/demon or human. Satan could be what Christ was. Satan could be just a talking snake. A talking snake wouldn't be a God, angel/demon or human. A talking snake wouldn't be as weird as a hearing snake though because all snakes are born without ears. How about eyelids?

23rd July 2012, 05:21 PM	#35
sentry579 New Blood Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21	How many of these ex-Satanists have memories recovered via hypnosis? Or is that just the speciality of their victims?
sentry579 New Blood Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 21