LGBT rights with Mitt Romney: it gets worse - Page 2

TimCallahan · 23rd July 2012, 08:24 AM

Gays have asserted in the past that the whole anti-gay stance of religious conservatives is an effective cash cow. A televangelist can go o the air and promise that the first $100,000.00 callers pledge will go to combat the scourge of homosexuality. So, across the country 100,000 of his supporters call in, each pledging $10.00. So, true to his word, the televangelist spends $100,000.00 of the pledges on fighting homosexuality (how, I'm not sure) -- and put the other $900,000.00 into a political war chest.

Romney can hardly kill his cash cow by allowing the tiny minority of lesbians and gays - who, together, may amount to little over 1% of the population - marriage rights. Taking a tough stance against gay marriage ensures that his coffers remain full.

Wuglife · 23rd July 2012, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

Gays have asserted in the past that the whole anti-gay stance of religious conservatives is an effective cash cow. A televangelist can go o the air and promise that the first $100,000.00 callers pledge will go to combat the scourge of homosexuality. So, across the country 100,000 of his supporters call in, each pledging $10.00. So, true to his word, the televangelist spends $100,000.00 of the pledges on fighting homosexuality (how, I'm not sure) -- and put the other $900,000.00 into a political war chest.

Romney can hardly kill his cash cow by allowing the tiny minority of lesbians and gays - who, together, may amount to little over 1% of the population - marriage rights. Taking a tough stance against gay marriage ensures that his coffers remain full.

I don't think lesbians and gays make up just over 1% of the population, really. I think that's a big underestimation. Plus, LGBT people as a whole probably make up a lot more. Plus those who may not be LGBT but to whom their rights are important

BenBurch · 23rd July 2012, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Wuglife

I don't think lesbians and gays make up just over 1% of the population, really. I think that's a big underestimation. Plus, LGBT people as a whole probably make up a lot more. Plus those who may not be LGBT but to whom their rights are important

According to Wikipedia (and this is a controversial subject, so likely to be a battleground there) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_de..._United_States

Quote:

<SNIP>

According to a Williams Institute survey conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual, while 0.3% are transgender—approximately 11.7 million Americans.[1] However, a significantly higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction without identifying as LGB. This makes it difficult to accurately record the demographics of LGBT people in the US.

<SNIP>

Dessi · 23rd July 2012, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

Romney can hardly kill his cash cow by allowing the tiny minority of lesbians and gays - who, together, may amount to little over 1% of the population - marriage rights. Taking a tough stance against gay marriage ensures that his coffers remain full.

LGBT people make up 3-4% of the population, and 2/3rds of Americans support their right to legal recognition. Its not just gay people who support gay rights.

aggle-rithm · 23rd July 2012, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by BenBurch

When I researched this for a radio piece last year, the LDS official who responded to my email said that the church had no policy on that matter, but that the church believes that homosexuality offends chastity, and so is abhorrent.

Some artful circular thinking there...

It offends chastity because it's outside of marriage.

It's outside of marriage because they CAN'T be married.

And they can't be married because it offends chastity.

And so on...

TimCallahan · 24th July 2012, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Dessi

LGBT people make up 3-4% of the population, and 2/3rds of Americans support their right to legal recognition. Its not just gay people who support gay rights.

Despite the fact that most Americans support gay rights, Proposition 8 did pass in California, a fairly liberal state. Unfortunately, political minorities can be mobilized to overwhelm a less focused majority. A case in point would be when Newt Gingrich and company managed to promulgate their"Contract ~~with~~ on America." In many districts there was only a 25% voter turnout. A mobilized conservative cadre did turn out, supplying Newt and company with 15% of the electorate, meaning that the vote was 15% v. 10%, giving Newt and company a 2/3 majority. The mobilized anti-gay minority will likely contribute more than the less mobilized 2/3 who would just as soon leave gays and lesbians alone.

I'll back off the 1% assertion, since there seems to be a lot of controversy regarding whether the LGBT population of the U.S. is as low as 1% or as high as 4%. My point is that LGBT's are no threat to anyone (of course, they still wouldn't be a threat in much greater numbers). Those who use the gay issue as a cash cow play on the morbid fears of people who have a siege mentality. In their minds, civilization (defined as what they believe in) is about to be overwhelmed by ravening hordes of gays, lesbians, welfare queens, evolutionists, etc.

BenBurch · 24th July 2012, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by TimCallahan

...

Those who use the gay issue as a cash cow play on the morbid fears of people who have a siege mentality. In their minds, civilization (defined as what they believe in) is about to be overwhelmed by ravening hordes of gays, lesbians, welfare queens, evolutionists, etc.

They need to be reminded that Sally Ride was a lifelong lesbian.

Beerina · 25th July 2012, 07:07 AM

As a side note, religious people worrying about the evil, secular state recognizing gay marriage for the purpose of legal issues is just silly. It is the religious ceremony that gives it sanctity, right?

This is part of a long-term failure to conflate governmemt with being a generic background against which to measure daily life, instead of freedom, as was designed for this nation when The People created it.

If anyone is to blame for this situation, it is The People themselves, who got into a century-long (and counting) battle to insinuate the government into every damned thing.

Now "We" aren't, in your mind, "free people living their own lives pursuing happiness", but rather "we as guided and belonging to government dictates."

Looking for blame? Look in the mirror.

Taarkin · 25th July 2012, 08:01 AM

Yes, we were on the verge of gay marriage back in the 1780s until Big Gov't stepped in and squashed it.

RandFan · 25th July 2012, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Taarkin

Yes, we were on the verge of gay marriage back in the 1780s until Big Gov't stepped in and squashed it.

BenBurch · 25th July 2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by RandFan

Well, as we all know, Martha Washington was a "beard" and the Revolutionary War was a falling-out between George Washington and his longtime companion General Thomas Gage.

TimCallahan · 25th July 2012, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Beerina

As a side note, religious people worrying about the evil, secular state recognizing gay marriage for the purpose of legal issues is just silly. It is the religious ceremony that gives it sanctity, right? . . . (major snip) . . .

Those supporting California's Proposition 8, banning gay marriage, actually asserted that priests, ministers and rabbis would be forced to marry gays in their churches and synagogues against their will if gay marriage were completely legal, an outrageous assertion, considering that, for example, a Catholic priest can't even be forced to marry a Catholic to a non-Catholic. Once the hysteria takes hold, it's impossible to reason with people.

Unfortunately, the Republican Party has been quite happy to cynically support such hysteria as a sop to one of its important voting blocks.

23rd July 2012, 08:24 AM	#41
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,117	Gays have asserted in the past that the whole anti-gay stance of religious conservatives is an effective cash cow. A televangelist can go o the air and promise that the first $100,000.00 callers pledge will go to combat the scourge of homosexuality. So, across the country 100,000 of his supporters call in, each pledging $10.00. So, true to his word, the televangelist spends $100,000.00 of the pledges on fighting homosexuality (how, I'm not sure) -- and put the other $900,000.00 into a political war chest. Romney can hardly kill his cash cow by allowing the tiny minority of lesbians and gays - who, together, may amount to little over 1% of the population - marriage rights. Taking a tough stance against gay marriage ensures that his coffers remain full.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,117

23rd July 2012, 08:27 AM	#42
Wuglife Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 400	Originally Posted by TimCallahan Gays have asserted in the past that the whole anti-gay stance of religious conservatives is an effective cash cow. A televangelist can go o the air and promise that the first $100,000.00 callers pledge will go to combat the scourge of homosexuality. So, across the country 100,000 of his supporters call in, each pledging $10.00. So, true to his word, the televangelist spends $100,000.00 of the pledges on fighting homosexuality (how, I'm not sure) -- and put the other $900,000.00 into a political war chest. Romney can hardly kill his cash cow by allowing the tiny minority of lesbians and gays - who, together, may amount to little over 1% of the population - marriage rights. Taking a tough stance against gay marriage ensures that his coffers remain full. I don't think lesbians and gays make up just over 1% of the population, really. I think that's a big underestimation. Plus, LGBT people as a whole probably make up a lot more. Plus those who may not be LGBT but to whom their rights are important
Wuglife Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 400

23rd July 2012, 08:35 AM	#43
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,089	Originally Posted by Wuglife I don't think lesbians and gays make up just over 1% of the population, really. I think that's a big underestimation. Plus, LGBT people as a whole probably make up a lot more. Plus those who may not be LGBT but to whom their rights are important According to Wikipedia (and this is a controversial subject, so likely to be a battleground there) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_de..._United_States Quote: <SNIP> According to a Williams Institute survey conducted in April 2011, approximately 3.5% of American adults identify themselves as lesbian, gay or bisexual, while 0.3% are transgender—approximately 11.7 million Americans.[1] However, a significantly higher percentage acknowledge having same-sex attraction without identifying as LGB. This makes it difficult to accurately record the demographics of LGBT people in the US. <SNIP>
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23rd July 2012, 09:30 AM	#44
Dessi Graduate Poster Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 1,904	Originally Posted by TimCallahan Romney can hardly kill his cash cow by allowing the tiny minority of lesbians and gays - who, together, may amount to little over 1% of the population - marriage rights. Taking a tough stance against gay marriage ensures that his coffers remain full. LGBT people make up 3-4% of the population, and 2/3rds of Americans support their right to legal recognition. Its not just gay people who support gay rights.
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23rd July 2012, 09:41 AM	#45
aggle-rithm Ardent Formulist Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 14,149	Originally Posted by BenBurch When I researched this for a radio piece last year, the LDS official who responded to my email said that the church had no policy on that matter, but that the church believes that homosexuality offends chastity, and so is abhorrent. Some artful circular thinking there... It offends chastity because it's outside of marriage. It's outside of marriage because they CAN'T be married. And they can't be married because it offends chastity. And so on...
	__________________ To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. Woo's razor: Never attribute to stupidity that which can be adequately explained by aliens.

24th July 2012, 10:08 AM	#46
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,117	Originally Posted by Dessi LGBT people make up 3-4% of the population, and 2/3rds of Americans support their right to legal recognition. Its not just gay people who support gay rights. Despite the fact that most Americans support gay rights, Proposition 8 did pass in California, a fairly liberal state. Unfortunately, political minorities can be mobilized to overwhelm a less focused majority. A case in point would be when Newt Gingrich and company managed to promulgate their"Contract ~~with~~ on America." In many districts there was only a 25% voter turnout. A mobilized conservative cadre did turn out, supplying Newt and company with 15% of the electorate, meaning that the vote was 15% v. 10%, giving Newt and company a 2/3 majority. The mobilized anti-gay minority will likely contribute more than the less mobilized 2/3 who would just as soon leave gays and lesbians alone. I'll back off the 1% assertion, since there seems to be a lot of controversy regarding whether the LGBT population of the U.S. is as low as 1% or as high as 4%. My point is that LGBT's are no threat to anyone (of course, they still wouldn't be a threat in much greater numbers). Those who use the gay issue as a cash cow play on the morbid fears of people who have a siege mentality. In their minds, civilization (defined as what they believe in) is about to be overwhelmed by ravening hordes of gays, lesbians, welfare queens, evolutionists, etc.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,117

24th July 2012, 10:20 AM	#47
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,089	Originally Posted by TimCallahan ... Those who use the gay issue as a cash cow play on the morbid fears of people who have a siege mentality. In their minds, civilization (defined as what they believe in) is about to be overwhelmed by ravening hordes of gays, lesbians, welfare queens, evolutionists, etc. They need to be reminded that Sally Ride was a lifelong lesbian.
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25th July 2012, 07:07 AM	#48
Beerina Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: A floating island above the clouds Posts: 23,835	As a side note, religious people worrying about the evil, secular state recognizing gay marriage for the purpose of legal issues is just silly. It is the religious ceremony that gives it sanctity, right? This is part of a long-term failure to conflate governmemt with being a generic background against which to measure daily life, instead of freedom, as was designed for this nation when The People created it. If anyone is to blame for this situation, it is The People themselves, who got into a century-long (and counting) battle to insinuate the government into every damned thing. Now "We" aren't, in your mind, "free people living their own lives pursuing happiness", but rather "we as guided and belonging to government dictates." Looking for blame? Look in the mirror.
	__________________ "Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales *now!* More, cheaper, better games, right? Right? Last edited by Beerina; 25th July 2012 at 07:09 AM.

25th July 2012, 08:01 AM	#49
Taarkin Strider Style Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Land of Heat and Clockwork Posts: 1,221	Yes, we were on the verge of gay marriage back in the 1780s until Big Gov't stepped in and squashed it.
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25th July 2012, 09:51 AM	#50
RandFan Mormon Atheist Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Southern California Posts: 53,105	Originally Posted by Taarkin Yes, we were on the verge of gay marriage back in the 1780s until Big Gov't stepped in and squashed it.
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25th July 2012, 09:55 AM	#51
BenBurch Gatekeeper of The Left Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: The Universe 35.2 ms ahead of this one. Posts: 32,089	Originally Posted by RandFan Well, as we all know, Martha Washington was a "beard" and the Revolutionary War was a falling-out between George Washington and his longtime companion General Thomas Gage.
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25th July 2012, 10:36 AM	#52
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,117	Originally Posted by Beerina As a side note, religious people worrying about the evil, secular state recognizing gay marriage for the purpose of legal issues is just silly. It is the religious ceremony that gives it sanctity, right? . . . (major snip) . . . Those supporting California's Proposition 8, banning gay marriage, actually asserted that priests, ministers and rabbis would be forced to marry gays in their churches and synagogues against their will if gay marriage were completely legal, an outrageous assertion, considering that, for example, a Catholic priest can't even be forced to marry a Catholic to a non-Catholic. Once the hysteria takes hold, it's impossible to reason with people. Unfortunately, the Republican Party has been quite happy to cynically support such hysteria as a sop to one of its important voting blocks.
TimCallahan Philosopher Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 5,117