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Old 31st July 2012, 05:38 PM   #1
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Freethought blogs as your skeptical stewards?

I'm being attacked there now-- they accuse me (among other things) of running an anonymous, racist (?) twitter account because, well, they said so.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdi...mong-atheists/

I post my reply to them below (am I owed an apology on the twitter thing? I don't care about them claiming I am racist).

This thread's purpose, though, is to complain on general principle about the lack of intellectual and academic integrity displayed often by FTB (and their precursor, "science" blogs).

I'm curious whether others have experienced censorship, bullying, moderators literally editing comments; and conduct unbecoming a skeptic there?

***

Hi Stephanie.

1. That's not my twitter account. I have one account there; haven't used it in something like a year.

You should present even some tiny bit of evidence the account referenced above is mine, or retract?

2. I do not consider myself active in the "movement". To the contrary, and to the extent that FTB is representative, I take pains to distance myself from the movement. The only skeptical place I post regularly on is the JREF.

The Myspace group's fame was a fluke. It was originally called Community (of) United Non-Theistic Skeptics (Counts, of course). The group hasn't existed on Myspace in years, and I never use the monicker "Atheists & Agnostics". As proof, see the shell group on Facebook. It has the group's original name.

3. I do not consider you qualified to comment on many things scientific. I bet lots that if you were male, there's no way in hell Scientific American would post your thoughts as written there (nice privilege, btw). These are my opinions only.

4. I imagine that if a thread like this were posted by me against you, the ensuing drama / charges of "isms" would be epic. I bet laden would even show up at my door with a pipe wrench.

5. Show me anywhere on here or “science” blogs where I state race differences on IQ tests are caused by genes.
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Old 31st July 2012, 05:47 PM   #2
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Wow, instead of retracting or apologizing on the twitter accusation, she updates the post-- at the very end-- with this:

Update: Pesta says that it is simply a coincidence that a MySpace group tweeting under the name Atheists&Agnostics, that this is not his Twitter account.
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Old 31st July 2012, 06:10 PM   #3
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Does she think there would be a rational reason to make a twitter account named atheistsagnostics, write a bunch of tweets with it, and then falsely proclaim it's not yours?
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Old 31st July 2012, 06:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cornsail View Post
Does she think there would be a rational reason to make a twitter account named atheistsagnostics, write a bunch of tweets with it, and then falsely proclaim it's not yours?
Nice!

I have a long history with her and Laden (and to a lesser degree, PZ) debating all things IQ. At one point, I mentioned I was on paxil. They now use that to mock me when they got no rational counter-argument (see her recent comment on how it's my mental state that's causing me to question her fairness here).
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Old 1st August 2012, 06:49 AM   #5
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Well, it's always important not to generalize "Free thought blogs" since not all there are [censored adjective] [censored plural noun].

But as rational people pull away from there and the fringe thinkers keep coming in, I wonder if they will just distance themselves, going further and further away from center, crystallize as a subgroup that just embraces that identity?
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Old 2nd August 2012, 10:51 AM   #6
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At least Greg Osama Laden doesn't blog there anymore.
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Old 2nd August 2012, 03:52 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Fascination View Post
At least Greg Osama Laden doesn't blog there anymore.
He's still at "science"blogs
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Old 3rd August 2012, 02:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by bpesta22 View Post
Wow, instead of retracting or apologizing on the twitter accusation, she updates the post-- at the very end-- with this:

Update: Pesta says that it is simply a coincidence that a MySpace group tweeting under the name Atheists&Agnostics, that this is not his Twitter account.
To be fair she doesn't mention you by name until the paragraph before that update, and it's right after the line about them being your tweets.

To be pedantic it's one sentence before "the very end"

... and she responded to you in the comments. You had a whole dialogue there. Why bring it here?

... and why did I read this?

... and why did I respond?

... and why am I suddenly seized by ennui?
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Old 3rd August 2012, 03:31 PM   #9
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Freethought Blogs looks like a joke to me, especially after their recent intra-wars of which I'm vaguely aware. Can't for my life understand why PZ Myers moved away from Science Blogs to there.
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Old 4th August 2012, 08:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Humes fork View Post
Freethought Blogs looks like a joke to me, especially after their recent intra-wars of which I'm vaguely aware. Can't for my life understand why PZ Myers moved away from Science Blogs to there.
You could ask him, or maybe just read his blog.


http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/


That way you might be vaguely aware of what you're talking about before you comment.

Last edited by tsig; 4th August 2012 at 08:59 AM.
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Old 4th August 2012, 09:32 AM   #11
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These two posts explain why Ed Brayton and PZ founded FTB.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngu...-the-new-digs/
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatch...ion-statement/

NatGeo the new owners of ScienceBlogs told them they would be applying their corporate standards and practices policy to the bloggers, so they set up a place where they could post their thoughts without any restrictions.
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Old 4th August 2012, 09:40 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Aoidoi View Post
To be fair she doesn't mention you by name until the paragraph before that update, and it's right after the line about them being your tweets.

To be pedantic it's one sentence before "the very end"

... and she responded to you in the comments. You had a whole dialogue there. Why bring it here?

... and why did I read this?

... and why did I respond?

... and why am I suddenly seized by ennui?
I wanted an in-real-time record of the exchanges off site, in case things got weird.
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Old 4th August 2012, 11:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
These two posts explain why Ed Brayton and PZ founded FTB.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngu...-the-new-digs/
http://freethoughtblogs.com/dispatch...ion-statement/

NatGeo the new owners of ScienceBlogs told them they would be applying their corporate standards and practices policy to the bloggers, so they set up a place where they could post their thoughts without any restrictions.
And after the thing with Thunderf00t they're going to introduce a bunch of rules.
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Old 4th August 2012, 08:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
You could ask him, or maybe just read his blog.


http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/


That way you might be vaguely aware of what you're talking about before you comment.
Thanks for the link Tsig!
I haven't been on there in awhile so I wasn't sure why he moved either.

Last edited by Fascination; 4th August 2012 at 08:21 PM.
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Old 4th August 2012, 08:36 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Humes fork View Post
Freethought Blogs looks like a joke to me, especially after their recent intra-wars of which I'm vaguely aware. Can't for my life understand why PZ Myers moved away from Science Blogs to there.
PZ isn't much better....... for certain subjects there is no skepticism allowed. Elevatorgate was a classic example.
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Old 4th August 2012, 08:43 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
PZ isn't much better....... for certain subjects there is no skepticism allowed. Elevatorgate was a classic example.

Right, saying "Guys don't do that" was so inflammatory that it was worth rape threats.
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Old 4th August 2012, 08:49 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Fascination View Post
Thanks for the link Tsig!
I haven't been on there in awhile so I wasn't sure why he moved either.
He rubs a lot of people the wrong way but a lot of people need to be rubbed the wrong way.
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Old 4th August 2012, 09:23 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Right, saying "Guys don't do that" was so inflammatory that it was worth rape threats.
Nice red herring there. In your effort to defend PZ you've changed the subject.

Care to try again and actually respond to what devnull wrote?
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Old 5th August 2012, 04:50 AM   #19
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The general forum is now also a place where skepticism goes to die?
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Old 5th August 2012, 05:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
He rubs a lot of people the wrong way but a lot of people need to be rubbed the wrong way.
But is there any statistical correlation that he's hitting that group? You could say that an incompetent cop busts a lot of people but a lot of people need to be busted, but you haven't addressed whether the cop's busting the right people or just busting people for the hell of it and occasionally getting one right.
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Old 5th August 2012, 06:52 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
Nice red herring there. In your effort to defend PZ you've changed the subject.

Care to try again and actually respond to what devnull wrote?
I don't expect much more than the offer of sodomy utilising various dead animals.

Yes, that's what passes for argument over there.
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Old 5th August 2012, 07:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
PZ isn't much better....... for certain subjects there is no skepticism allowed. Elevatorgate was a classic example.
Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Right, saying "Guys don't do that" was so inflammatory that it was worth rape threats.
Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
Nice red herring there. In your effort to defend PZ you've changed the subject.

Care to try again and actually respond to what devnull wrote?

I hilited the relevant word for you.
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Old 5th August 2012, 07:19 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
But is there any statistical correlation that he's hitting that group? You could say that an incompetent cop busts a lot of people but a lot of people need to be busted, but you haven't addressed whether the cop's busting the right people or just busting people for the hell of it and occasionally getting one right.
He's getting a reaction from you.
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Old 5th August 2012, 07:28 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
I don't expect much more than the offer of sodomy utilising various dead animals.

Yes, that's what passes for argument over there.
They don't suffer fools gladly but then why should they since there's enough goody two shoes out there who think religion is something special that should be respected no matter what.
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Old 5th August 2012, 08:21 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
I hilited the relevant word for you.
Ah, so you have a poor memory then. It was Rebecca who used the phrase "Guys don't do that". It was PZ, et. al. who conflated Elevator Guy's clumsy come on with the advances of a potential rapist - exactly as devnull connoted in his comment. You might try reading the three posts you quoted again in that context and, again, try responding to what devnull actually wrote rather than what you think he wrote.
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Old 5th August 2012, 08:24 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
They don't suffer fools gladly but then why should they since there's enough goody two shoes out there who think religion is something special that should be respected no matter what.
So, how's this straw man version of those of use who support Phil Plait's "don't be a dick" mentality working out vs. the let's punch 'em in the balls mentality?
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Old 5th August 2012, 08:58 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
He's getting a reaction from you.
You're getting worse at this as the day wears on. YOU are getting a reaction from me. I don't follow PZ, do not read his blogs, and don't comment on them. It's your insisting on defending him against all comers that piques my curiosity. I suppose we all need heroes, even in the skeptical community.
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Old 5th August 2012, 09:28 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
He's getting a reaction from you.
I think the how and why does matter. And "because it is accurate" isn't the only possible cause for a reaction.
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Old 5th August 2012, 11:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by tsig View Post
Right, saying "Guys don't do that" was so inflammatory that it was worth rape threats.
Yes, that is exactly what devnull said.
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Old 5th August 2012, 10:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
It was PZ, et. al. who conflated Elevator Guy's clumsy come on with the advances of a potential rapist
This, except perhaps without the word "potential". According to some over there, the mere act of him asking (stupid as it was) amounted to direct threats of rape and violence, and anybody who doesnt agree can sodomise themselves with a dead porcupine, cupcake.

After seeing that kind of amazing repartee, oh, a thousand times, I stopped reading and havent been back.

It also looked as if PZ no longer cared about biology and the other sciences, and merely liked to post stuff along the lines of "hey resident foam-mouthed feminists! Here's a statement by someone that could be twisted in a way that would make them seem slightly misogynistic! Have at it!".

And who could forget the classic PZ thread of "all people who disagree with my resident foam-mouthed feminists are misogynostic wankers! Oh, my daughter disagrees with them? errr.... cough... look over there! A squid!"

Pass.
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Old 5th August 2012, 10:29 PM   #31
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But he's feisty! Er.. he smacks people around who need to be smacked around, especially those stupid religious doo doo heads. That means he's cool.


It never ceases to amaze me at how many critical thinkers get caught up on personality cults, but then I remember Shermer's chapter in "Why people believe weird things" that covers Ayn Rand and the personality cult that developed around her.
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Old 6th August 2012, 06:29 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
But he's feisty! Er.. he smacks people around who need to be smacked around, especially those stupid religious doo doo heads. That means he's cool.


It never ceases to amaze me at how many critical thinkers get caught up on personality cults, but then I remember Shermer's chapter in "Why people believe weird things" that covers Ayn Rand and the personality cult that developed around her.
What a crock, you're obviously just a Shermer fanboi....
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Old 6th August 2012, 12:20 PM   #33
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Just stumbled across this lady-- "girl writes what."

Anyone ever hear of her? She seems to be the anti-ftb.

Her vids are long but worth watching, esp. if you are at work and bored:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-N9daqANcw&feature=plcp
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Old 6th August 2012, 05:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by bpesta22 View Post
Just stumbled across this lady-- "girl writes what."

Anyone ever hear of her? She seems to be the anti-ftb.

Her vids are long but worth watching, esp. if you are at work and bored:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-N9daqANcw&feature=plcp
I posted a video of hers in the "Sexual Harrasment At Tam?!" thread a few days ago.
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Old 6th August 2012, 08:06 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Fascination View Post
I posted a video of hers in the "Sexual Harrasment At Tam?!" thread a few days ago.
Missed it; sorry!
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Old 6th August 2012, 08:35 PM   #36
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I liked meeting PZ at CSICon, I pretty much skip his blog.
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Old 6th August 2012, 08:49 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by UnrepentantSinner View Post
It never ceases to amaze me at how many critical thinkers get caught up on personality cults
This.

OMG this!
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Old 6th August 2012, 11:25 PM   #38
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See, now, she must have a crush on me, or am I being paranoid?

http://freethoughtblogs.com/almostdi...ualifications/
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Old 7th August 2012, 05:07 AM   #39
Squeegee Beckenheim
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Every time I've ever read anything on any sceptical blog, it's been one bunch of sceptics arguing with and bitching about another bunch of sceptics.

I don't read sceptical blogs.
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Old 7th August 2012, 08:08 AM   #40
Moss
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Originally Posted by devnull View Post
This.

OMG this!
I've been thinking more of bandwagons of late. I wonder why.
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