Classical history recommendations

DavidS · 1st August 2012, 03:47 PM

The thing that I've enjoyed most with my Kindle has been reading classical works and histories. Empirical evidence indicates I'd never bother to track down and lug around hardcopies, but with the Kindle they're free (probably on the web) or almost free (I'm lazy and don't mind paying $0.99 for wireless delivery). Conveniently bundled into an easily portable electronic library, I read manageable chunks over lunch, in the barber chair, etc.

I've really enjoyed these (in no particular order):

Gibbon: History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire
Herodotus: Histories
Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War
Julius Caesar: Commentaries on the Conquest of Gaul
Plutarch: Comparative Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans
Homer: Iliad, Odyssey, etc.
Bullfinch: The Age of Chivalry
Machiavelli: The Prince
Clausewitz: On War

Once I slogged through six volumes of Gibbon (admittedly just to say I did), I sampled and downloaded most of the others. That's kept me busy for some months, but I'm now working on the last of my inventory:

Tacitus: The Histories of Ancient Rome

What next? I'm looking for further recommendations along similar lines.

I'll need works or translations in English prose. I'm not multilingual, and I just can't seem to get into epic poetry (any good prose versions of Goethe:Faust, ??:Beowulf, Dante: Divine Comedy ?).

amensae · 2nd August 2012, 02:57 AM

Definitely Suetonius, The Twelve Caesars. He’s often accused of being sensationalist, but in terms of critical thinking he is arguably more reliable than Tacitus... and much more fun to read.

GeneMachine · 2nd August 2012, 03:11 AM

If you are up for another multi-volume tome on Rome, this time focused more on the early Monarchy and the Republic, I strongly recommend Theodor Mommsen's "History of Rome". It should be available in translation.

Another great work is Egon Friedell's "Kulturgeschichte des Altertums" und "Kulturgeschichte Griechenlands", but I haven't been able to find English translations for those.

Wolrab · 2nd August 2012, 05:49 AM

I recommend History of the World, Part 1 by Melvin Kaminsky.

DavidS · 3rd August 2012, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Wolrab

I recommend History of the World, Part 1 by Melvin Kaminsky.

I think I've seen that one already.

Oh, wait... wrong Mel.

Thanks!

ddt · 5th August 2012, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by DavidS

I think I've seen that one already.

Oh, wait... wrong Mel.

Thanks!

Uh, the right Mel:

Quote:

Mel Brooks (born Melvin Kaminsky; June 28, 1926)

angrysoba · 5th August 2012, 07:24 PM

How about David Hume's History of England? Or that of Thomas Babbling Macauley?

Or Thomas Carlyle?

Or Alexis de Tocqueville?

fuelair · 5th August 2012, 09:54 PM

Anything Braudel is great!!~! http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ywords=Braudel

RobDegraves · 5th August 2012, 10:05 PM

Sun Tzu's "Art of War"
Igor de Rachewiltz's translation of "The Secret History of the Mongols"
"The Oxford Illustrated History of the Crusades"

Damien Evans · 5th August 2012, 10:34 PM

Xenophon of Athens, Anabasis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_%28Xenophon%29

ETA: Oh, and Hellenica.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenica_%28Xenophon%29

Kaosium · 5th August 2012, 11:41 PM

Try the Venerable Bede, it starts in classical times and details how the inhabitants and invaders of these out-of-the-way islands were taught to bathe regularly, chew their food, and stop stuffing their sheep--with mixed success. (

)

Bede had a sense of humor, I always liked this part:

Originally Posted by Bede "Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation"

He, being moved by Divine inspiration, in the fourteenth year of the same emperor, and about the one hundred and fiftieth after the coming of the English into Britain, sent the servant of God, Augustine, and with him several other monks, who feared the Lord, to preach the word of God to the English nation. they having, in obedience to the pope's commands, undertaken that work, were, on their journey, seized with a sudden fear, and began to think of returning home, rather than proceed to a barbarous, fierce, and unbelieving nation, to whose very language they were strangers; and this they unanimously agreed was the safest course. In short, they sent back.

You won't find anything about a 'King Arthur'--unless you squint really hard. However there is something with him in it, however calling it 'history' is mighty generous, though rumor has it those Islanders didn't catch on for about 500 years. Mutton on their minds, mayhap. Anyway it's a fascinating read--for entertainment purposes only. I've always wondered if his 'technique' inspired Tolkien to use the same in Lord of the Rings, 'relying' on The Red Book of Westmarch like Geoffrey of Monmouth 'translated' from his 'source.'

SusanB-M1 · 6th August 2012, 02:03 AM

At present, I am listening to the audio version of 'Socrates' by Bettany Hughes, which I am enjoying very much. There is so much in it that I am listening in small sections at a time. I am told that her 'Helen of Troy' is also very good.

Damien Evans · 6th August 2012, 09:18 AM

Originally Posted by Kaosium

Try the Venerable Bede, it starts in classical times and details how the inhabitants and invaders of these out-of-the-way islands were taught to bathe regularly, chew their food, and stop stuffing their sheep--with mixed success. (

)

Bede had a sense of humor, I always liked this part:

You won't find anything about a 'King Arthur'--unless you squint really hard. However there is something with him in it, however calling it 'history' is mighty generous, though rumor has it those Islanders didn't catch on for about 500 years. Mutton on their minds, mayhap. Anyway it's a fascinating read--for entertainment purposes only. I've always wondered if his 'technique' inspired Tolkien to use the same in Lord of the Rings, 'relying' on The Red Book of Westmarch like Geoffrey of Monmouth 'translated' from his 'source.'

While Bede and Geoffrey of Monmouth are very interesting reads, I'd take anything they wrote with a very large pinch of salt.

calebprime · 6th August 2012, 09:43 AM

To my surprise, _The Oxford History of the American People_ by Samuel Eliot Morison is very readable and is bringing history alive for me.

oops. not classical history. oh well.

fuelair · 6th August 2012, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by calebprime

To my surprise, _The Oxford History of the American People_ by Samuel Eliot Morison is very readable and is bringing history alive for me.

oops. not classical history. oh well.

The statement was Classical works and Histories - which I interpreted as: Classical works (which may include histories) and Histories (which may include classic/al histories) thus the Braudel (and Morison..........)

Kaosium · 6th August 2012, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

While Bede and Geoffrey of Monmouth are very interesting reads, I'd take anything they wrote with a very large pinch of salt.

Geoffrey of Monmouth certainly, perhaps I didn't make that clear: lotsa stuff he just made up, 'attributing' it to a lost source, which strikes me as 'reliable' as the Red Book of Westmarch. The best part of that tale is apparently some of them didn't catch on for 500 or so years, though I cannot help but wonder if some student didn't whisper to another in those intervening years something akin to 'Troy? Anyone do a fact-check on this guy?'

But Bede? That's news to me, where's that coming from? I looked around and didn't find much, though I am aware mythmakers aren't pleased with some of his accounts. Don't be put off by his listing of 'miracles,' as through him and his less credulous accounts one gets an idea of what these 'miracles' largely were: primitive medicine, coincidence, good counsel and hero-worship.

DavidS · 6th August 2012, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Damien Evans

While Bede and Geoffrey of Monmouth are very interesting reads, I'd take anything they wrote with a very large pinch of salt.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't we take anything anybody wrote with a pinch of salt? Sure, some more than others... that's OK. I'm not reading for stuff to believe, I'm reading for stuff to think about. Half the fun is considering why and even whether the author believed what he wrote, or thought his readers might.

Originally Posted by fuelair

The statement was Classical works and Histories - which I interpreted as: Classical works (which may include histories) and Histories (which may include classic/al histories) thus the Braudel (and Morison..........)

That's what I'm now claiming is the intended interpretation. This is leisure, not livelihood; no harm in a little covey-shooting.

Many thanks for the recommendations, along with 0.9331 cubic attaboys to Wolrab for catching me flatfooted (balance to ddt for the assist).

paiute · 6th August 2012, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by ddt

Uh, the right Mel:

The Rise and Fall of a Roaming Umpire, by Edward Gibbonz, the famous Hungarian historian?

kedo1981 · 9th August 2012, 08:40 AM

Dan Carlin's hard core history podcaste

1st August 2012, 03:47 PM	#1
DavidS Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 519	Classical history recommendations The thing that I've enjoyed most with my Kindle has been reading classical works and histories. Empirical evidence indicates I'd never bother to track down and lug around hardcopies, but with the Kindle they're free (probably on the web) or almost free (I'm lazy and don't mind paying $0.99 for wireless delivery). Conveniently bundled into an easily portable electronic library, I read manageable chunks over lunch, in the barber chair, etc. I've really enjoyed these (in no particular order): Gibbon: History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire Herodotus: Histories Thucydides: The Peloponnesian War Julius Caesar: Commentaries on the Conquest of Gaul Plutarch: Comparative Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans Homer: Iliad, Odyssey, etc. Bullfinch: The Age of Chivalry Machiavelli: The Prince Clausewitz: On War Once I slogged through six volumes of Gibbon (admittedly just to say I did), I sampled and downloaded most of the others. That's kept me busy for some months, but I'm now working on the last of my inventory: Tacitus: The Histories of Ancient Rome What next? I'm looking for further recommendations along similar lines. I'll need works or translations in English prose. I'm not multilingual, and I just can't seem to get into epic poetry (any good prose versions of Goethe:Faust, ??:Beowulf, Dante: Divine Comedy ?).
DavidS Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 519

2nd August 2012, 05:49 AM	#4
Wolrab Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Beautiful Finger Lakes Posts: 1,711	I recommend History of the World, Part 1 by Melvin Kaminsky.
	__________________ "Such reports are usually based on the sighting of something the sighters cannot explain and that they (or someone else on their behalf) explain as representing an interstellar spaceship-often by saying "But what else can it be?" as though thier own ignorance is a decisive factor." Isaac Asimov

3rd August 2012, 11:25 AM	#5
DavidS Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 519	Originally Posted by Wolrab I recommend History of the World, Part 1 by Melvin Kaminsky. I think I've seen that one already. Oh, wait... wrong Mel. Thanks!
DavidS Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 519

5th August 2012, 02:19 PM	#6
ddt Mafia Penguin Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Netherlands Posts: 10,331	Originally Posted by DavidS I think I've seen that one already. Oh, wait... wrong Mel. Thanks! Uh, the right Mel: Quote: Mel Brooks (born Melvin Kaminsky; June 28, 1926)
	__________________ Proud member of the Solipsistic Autosycophant's Group

5th August 2012, 09:54 PM	#8
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Anything Braudel is great!!~! http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...ywords=Braudel
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

2nd August 2012, 02:57 AM	#2
amensae Suspended Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 223	Definitely Suetonius, The Twelve Caesars. He’s often accused of being sensationalist, but in terms of critical thinking he is arguably more reliable than Tacitus... and much more fun to read.

2nd August 2012, 03:11 AM	#3
GeneMachine Critical Thinker Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Bavaria Posts: 332	If you are up for another multi-volume tome on Rome, this time focused more on the early Monarchy and the Republic, I strongly recommend Theodor Mommsen's "History of Rome". It should be available in translation. Another great work is Egon Friedell's "Kulturgeschichte des Altertums" und "Kulturgeschichte Griechenlands", but I haven't been able to find English translations for those.

5th August 2012, 07:24 PM	#7
angrysoba Philosopher Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Osaka, Japan Posts: 8,605	How about David Hume's History of England? Or that of Thomas Babbling Macauley? Or Thomas Carlyle? Or Alexis de Tocqueville?

5th August 2012, 10:05 PM	#9
RobDegraves Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 787	Sun Tzu's "Art of War" Igor de Rachewiltz's translation of "The Secret History of the Mongols" "The Oxford Illustrated History of the Crusades"
RobDegraves Muse Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 787

5th August 2012, 10:34 PM	#10
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,311	Xenophon of Athens, Anabasis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_%28Xenophon%29 ETA: Oh, and Hellenica. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenica_%28Xenophon%29
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi Last edited by Damien Evans; 5th August 2012 at 11:00 PM.

5th August 2012, 11:41 PM	#11
Kaosium Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4,347	Try the Venerable Bede, it starts in classical times and details how the inhabitants and invaders of these out-of-the-way islands were taught to bathe regularly, chew their food, and stop stuffing their sheep--with mixed success. () Bede had a sense of humor, I always liked this part: Originally Posted by Bede "Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation" He, being moved by Divine inspiration, in the fourteenth year of the same emperor, and about the one hundred and fiftieth after the coming of the English into Britain, sent the servant of God, Augustine, and with him several other monks, who feared the Lord, to preach the word of God to the English nation. they having, in obedience to the pope's commands, undertaken that work, were, on their journey, seized with a sudden fear, and began to think of returning home, rather than proceed to a barbarous, fierce, and unbelieving nation, to whose very language they were strangers; and this they unanimously agreed was the safest course. In short, they sent back. You won't find anything about a 'King Arthur'--unless you squint really hard. However there is something with him in it, however calling it 'history' is mighty generous, though rumor has it those Islanders didn't catch on for about 500 years. Mutton on their minds, mayhap. Anyway it's a fascinating read--for entertainment purposes only. I've always wondered if his 'technique' inspired Tolkien to use the same in Lord of the Rings, 'relying' on The Red Book of Westmarch like Geoffrey of Monmouth 'translated' from his 'source.'
Kaosium Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4,347	__________________ "Honi soit qui mal y pense."

6th August 2012, 02:03 AM	#12
SusanB-M1 Incurable Optimist Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Almost in the New Forest, Hampshire, UK Posts: 2,867	At present, I am listening to the audio version of 'Socrates' by Bettany Hughes, which I am enjoying very much. There is so much in it that I am listening in small sections at a time. I am told that her 'Helen of Troy' is also very good.
	__________________ I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

6th August 2012, 09:18 AM	#13
Damien Evans Up The Irons Tagger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 25,311	Originally Posted by Kaosium Try the Venerable Bede, it starts in classical times and details how the inhabitants and invaders of these out-of-the-way islands were taught to bathe regularly, chew their food, and stop stuffing their sheep--with mixed success. () Bede had a sense of humor, I always liked this part: You won't find anything about a 'King Arthur'--unless you squint really hard. However there is something with him in it, however calling it 'history' is mighty generous, though rumor has it those Islanders didn't catch on for about 500 years. Mutton on their minds, mayhap. Anyway it's a fascinating read--for entertainment purposes only. I've always wondered if his 'technique' inspired Tolkien to use the same in Lord of the Rings, 'relying' on The Red Book of Westmarch like Geoffrey of Monmouth 'translated' from his 'source.' While Bede and Geoffrey of Monmouth are very interesting reads, I'd take anything they wrote with a very large pinch of salt.
	__________________ WHAT CAN THE HARVEST HOPE FOR, IF NOT THE CARE OF THE REAPER MAN? - Death "Racism is a disease in society. We're all equal. I don't care what their colour is, or religion. Just as long as they're human beings they're my buddies." - Mandawuy Yunupingu, lead singer of Yothu Yindi

6th August 2012, 09:43 AM	#14
calebprime Somewhat Elitist Parasite Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 7,760	To my surprise, _The Oxford History of the American People_ by Samuel Eliot Morison is very readable and is bringing history alive for me. oops. not classical history. oh well.
	__________________ Mr. DeBakey's free, but he's a little bit conciliatory.

6th August 2012, 10:08 AM	#15
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	Originally Posted by calebprime To my surprise, _The Oxford History of the American People_ by Samuel Eliot Morison is very readable and is bringing history alive for me. oops. not classical history. oh well. The statement was Classical works and Histories - which I interpreted as: Classical works (which may include histories) and Histories (which may include classic/al histories) thus the Braudel (and Morison..........)
fuelair Cythraul Enfys Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,961	__________________ There is no problem so great that it cannot be fixed by small explosives carefully placed. Wash this space! We fight for the Lady Babylon!!!

6th August 2012, 12:27 PM	#16
Kaosium Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4,347	Originally Posted by Damien Evans While Bede and Geoffrey of Monmouth are very interesting reads, I'd take anything they wrote with a very large pinch of salt. Geoffrey of Monmouth certainly, perhaps I didn't make that clear: lotsa stuff he just made up, 'attributing' it to a lost source, which strikes me as 'reliable' as the Red Book of Westmarch. The best part of that tale is apparently some of them didn't catch on for 500 or so years, though I cannot help but wonder if some student didn't whisper to another in those intervening years something akin to 'Troy? Anyone do a fact-check on this guy?' But Bede? That's news to me, where's that coming from? I looked around and didn't find much, though I am aware mythmakers aren't pleased with some of his accounts. Don't be put off by his listing of 'miracles,' as through him and his less credulous accounts one gets an idea of what these 'miracles' largely were: primitive medicine, coincidence, good counsel and hero-worship.
Kaosium Illuminator Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 4,347	__________________ "Honi soit qui mal y pense."

6th August 2012, 04:11 PM	#17
DavidS Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 519	Originally Posted by Damien Evans While Bede and Geoffrey of Monmouth are very interesting reads, I'd take anything they wrote with a very large pinch of salt. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but shouldn't we take anything anybody wrote with a pinch of salt? Sure, some more than others... that's OK. I'm not reading for stuff to believe, I'm reading for stuff to think about. Half the fun is considering why and even whether the author believed what he wrote, or thought his readers might. Originally Posted by fuelair The statement was Classical works and Histories - which I interpreted as: Classical works (which may include histories) and Histories (which may include classic/al histories) thus the Braudel (and Morison..........) That's what I'm now claiming is the intended interpretation. This is leisure, not livelihood; no harm in a little covey-shooting. Many thanks for the recommendations, along with 0.9331 cubic attaboys to Wolrab for catching me flatfooted (balance to ddt for the assist).
DavidS Muse Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 519

6th August 2012, 05:18 PM	#18
paiute Graduate Poster Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Smack in the middle of a de Broglie wavelength. Posts: 1,140	Originally Posted by ddt Uh, the right Mel: The Rise and Fall of a Roaming Umpire, by Edward Gibbonz, the famous Hungarian historian?
	__________________ A Novel and Efficient Synthesis of Cadaverine Organic chemistry, vengeful ghosts, and high explosives. What could possibly go wrong? Now free for download! http://www.scribd.com/doc/36568510/A...-of-Cadaverine

9th August 2012, 08:40 AM	#19
kedo1981 Master Poster Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: ohio Posts: 2,083	Dan Carlin's hard core history podcaste
	__________________ "Prove all things, hold fast that which is good" (I Thessalonians 5:21) I readily admit I don’t know enough to say for sure that there is no God. But I do know enough so say that anyone who claims to know the mind and will of a being such as God is a liar. I have no problem with Jesus, but his fan club sucks!