Successful conspiracy at the Olympics

[Jack by the hedge]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Let's see what you have:

1. Ankie Spitzer says that Jacques Rogge said that...
2. Reportedly on Israeli Channel 2 News Thomas Bach said something said days earlier by Ankie Spitzer
3. Reuters reports on ESPN reports on some secret minutes no one has seen.

Let's see what you have:

1. A campaign group wanted a memorial event at the olympics
2. Some IOC members publicly supported it
3. At least one IOC member publicly opposed it
4. Since it wasn't decided by a public vote, we don't know who exactly opposed it or whether countries actually threatened to withdraw, but it was prevented from happening.
5. An Israeli newspaper said "it was them pesky arabs".
6. ????
7. Conspiracy theory.


It does rather look as though all of politics and all diplomacy now counts as a conspiracy theory.

[Biscuit]

So let me get this conspiracy straight.

An Israeli woman lied to the press about why the IOC did not have a minute of silence for the Munich victims, falsely blaming it on the Arab/Muslim countries participating in the Olympics.

The IOC confirmed this lie and the accused have made no attempt to clear their name?

Your only evidence is that you don't know the names of the people from the Arab/Muslim countries that are being held responsible for this?

Not a lot to go on there really.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

An Israeli woman lied to the press about why the IOC did not have a minute of silence for the Munich victims, falsely blaming it on the Arab/Muslim countries participating in the Olympics.

Yup.

Originally Posted by Biscuit

The IOC confirmed this lie

Nope.

Originally Posted by Biscuit

and the accused have made no attempt to clear their name?

The accused are vague.

Originally Posted by Biscuit

Your only evidence is that you don't know the names of the people from the Arab/Muslim countries that are being held responsible for this?

Excuse me? MY evidence? You believe Arab and muslim countries obstructed the one minute of silence campaign. YOUR evidence is the word of Spitzer and Spitzer only.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by dafydd

"Manieth" or "manyeth" is a coinage that--while it illustrates the flexibility of English--has not found currency (sorry about the pun)... has not entered the language because there are so many standard ways of saying the same thing. As a coinage, "manieth" found/finds greatest acceptance in ESL communities where the first tongue contains a similar construction. It has not found much acceptance among native American English, British English, or Australian English speakers.

Ik word misschien wel een nazi sympathisant genoemd maar tenminste geen spelling Nazi. Engels is niet mijn moedertaal.

[Tomtomkent]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Excuse me? MY evidence? You believe Arab and muslim countries obstructed the one minute of silence campaign. YOUR evidence is the word of Spitzer and Spitzer only.

Which, if true, is one more piece of evidence than you have to support your claim.

Let's make this clear: YOU make the statement, YOU supply evidence to prove it, or it is unproven speculation. Or in this case Unproven and Uninformed speculation.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by Tomtomkent

Let's make this clear: YOU make the statement, YOU supply evidence to prove it, or it is unproven speculation. Or in this case Unproven and Uninformed speculation.

Spitzer makes that statement. Let her prove it. You're asking me to provide evidence of some invisible hand behind the scenes. If I can't, the invisible hand behind the scenes is real. You believe in God? Notice the logical fallacy?

[Simon666]

I already gave evidence of her being a liar or at the very least the people reporting on her lying. It's been awfully quiet about the "hands are tied" statements.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Ik word misschien wel een nazi sympathisant genoemd maar tenminste geen spelling Nazi. Engels is niet mijn moedertaal.

Ok. Vergeven. Jij komt over als een Nazi liefhebber. Vooral in het Holocaust draad.

[swright777]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Ik word misschien wel een nazi sympathisant genoemd maar tenminste geen spelling Nazi. Engels is niet mijn moedertaal.

I think you meant grammar Nazi. The spelling wasn't wrong, the word was wrong.

[Straw Man]

Originally Posted by swright777

I think you meant grammar Nazi. The spelling wasn't wrong, the word was wrong.

I think what he said was appropriate.

[uke2se]

Seriously, what is it about this incident you don't get, Simon? Jewish groups want a memorial service. Arab and Palestinian groups oppose the memorial service because they feel it would put sympathies with Israel in an ongoing conflict. The IOC has continuously avoided a memorial service citing different causes, the latest being that a memorial to such a dark tragedy should not be allowed to overshadow the message of peace that the spirit of the Olympics are intended to promote.

Where's the freaking conspiracy?

Here's a source you can't accuse of being pro-Jewish for what I've just said:

http://www.alarabiya.net/views/2012/07/29/229008.html

That should really end this thread.

ETA: This belongs in social issues, but here's my view on this matter. There should have been a memorial service in 1976. The IOC has, in my opinion, missed the bus on which should have been an obvious cause of action. I don't think a memorial service after such a long time would serve as anything but a political statement, and I don't think that is fitting in the Olympics.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by uke2se

Seriously, what is it about this incident you don't get, Simon? Jewish groups want a memorial service. Arab and Palestinian groups oppose the memorial service because they feel it would put sympathies with Israel in an ongoing conflict. The IOC has continuously avoided a memorial service citing different causes, the latest being that a memorial to such a dark tragedy should not be allowed to overshadow the message of peace that the spirit of the Olympics are intended to promote.

Where's the freaking conspiracy?

Here's a source you can't accuse of being pro-Jewish for what I've just said:

http://www.alarabiya.net/views/2012/07/29/229008.html

That should really end this thread.

ETA: This belongs in social issues, but here's my view on this matter. There should have been a memorial service in 1976. The IOC has, in my opinion, missed the bus on which should have been an obvious cause of action. I don't think a memorial service after such a long time would serve as anything but a political statement, and I don't think that is fitting in the Olympics.

Another one of these secret conspiracies that are public knowledge. Don't the CT fans see a contradiction in that?

[Robrob]

Originally Posted by uke2se

Seriously, what is it about this incident you don't get, Simon? Jewish groups want a memorial service. Arab and Palestinian groups oppose the memorial service because they feel it would put sympathies with Israel in an ongoing conflict. The IOC has continuously avoided a memorial service citing different causes, the latest being that a memorial to such a dark tragedy should not be allowed to overshadow the message of peace that the spirit of the Olympics are intended to promote.

There's something here I'm not getting.

In 1972, Black September terrorists murdered eleven Israeli athletes and coaches and a West German police officer. An Olympics is exactly the time and place to memorialize them. How can the Olympic Committee memorializing athletes murdered during an Olympics be somehow "taking sides" in the (external) conflict? If "Arab and Palestinian groups" oppose the memorial services isn't it them admitting they support the politicizing of the Olympics - via murder?!

It's like saying we can't have a memorial for the dead in the Colorado Theater Shooting because that would be "taking sides" in the conflict.

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Yup.

Then why is no one except you calling her a liar?

Originally Posted by Simon666

Nope.

Yes actually the IOC has 100% confirmed what was said.

Originally Posted by Simon666

The accused are vague.

So once again no one but you is contradicting the facts is this situation. The nations being accused have not said a single word to contradict this.

Originally Posted by Simon666

Excuse me? MY evidence? You believe Arab and muslim countries obstructed the one minute of silence campaign. YOUR evidence is the word of Spitzer and Spitzer only.

Yes, your evidence. You made the claim and your only evidence is suspicion because you don't know the names of the people involved. As it is there is no reason to disbelieve the reports as told and as I have not made any claims I don't have to provide any evidence. There is no there there - just an irrational bias on your part.

[000063]

Originally Posted by Bell

Ergo?

No, Simon666.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

Then why is no one except you calling her a liar?

Real Jewish victim of an act of terror. Those are allowed to lie. After all, anyone doubting HAS to be an anti semite and only anti semites want to be one.

Originally Posted by Biscuit

Yes actually the IOC has 100% confirmed what was said.

Any actual source to anything other than "Ankie Spitzer said that IOC member X said to her that..."?

Originally Posted by Biscuit

So once again no one but you is contradicting the facts is this situation. The nations being accused have not said a single word to contradict this.

None has confirmed it either. Maybe it is better just to ignore that woman. It would get more political than it already is.

I've so far not seen a single Arab or muslim threaten to leave the Olympics or make a call for doing such should the one minute of silence not be held. There have been however calls out there (for Israel) to boycott the Olympics should the one minute not be held:

http://melchettmike.wordpress.com/20...-the-olympics/
joshuapundit.blogspot.be/2012/07/why-im-boycotting-olympics-ioc-admits.html

Some guy named Finkelstein wrote a book about professional victims and their industry.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by uke2se

ETA: This belongs in social issues, but here's my view on this matter. There should have been a memorial service in 1976. The IOC has, in my opinion, missed the bus on which should have been an obvious cause of action. I don't think a memorial service after such a long time would serve as anything but a political statement, and I don't think that is fitting in the Olympics.

I will wholeheartedly agree to that entire statement however.

[Dcdrac]

This threads starting premise seems to be uttely confusing balderdash

[LukeB]

Originally Posted by Robrob

How can the Olympic Committee memorializing athletes murdered during an Olympics be somehow "taking sides" in the (external) conflict?

This is a reasonable question.
Unfortunately reason has damned little to do with the whole ungodly conflict.

[phunk]

I think the controversy has received a lot more attention than the actual moment of silence would have. Doesn't seem like a very well executed conspiracy.

[jaydeehess]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Real Jewish victim of an act of terror. Those are allowed to lie. After all, anyone doubting HAS to be an anti semite and only anti semites want to be one.

You actually have no evidence that she lied about this particular subject. To my knowledge neither Rogge nor any Arab nation has come out and denied her allegations.

Furthermore it has the ring of truth about it certainly.

So you have two choices to call this a conspiracy
1) Arab nations tried to have a hush hush demand of theirs honoured. Pretty minor conspiracy.
2) Spitzer lied, also a pretty lame exercise to refer to as a conspiracy.

IMHO of course but tilt at whatever windmills you cae to Simon.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by jaydeehess

You actually have no evidence that she lied about this particular subject.

People keep posting the second part of this particular post:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...1&postcount=81

[ANTPogo]

Originally Posted by Simon666

People keep posting the second part of this particular post:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...1&postcount=81

And?

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by Simon666

People keep posting the second part of this particular post:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php...1&postcount=81

And?

[Simon666]

Source of July 20th, so before Ankie Spitzer making the comment on July 21st. It appears there never was an interview with Israeli Channel 2 as alleged around and after July 24th but instead with Deutsche Welle. Thomas Bach is German. This might just be the one and original source. Arab nations didn't threaten to boycott the Olympics, just the opening ceremony should the one minute of silence be held:

IOC vice president Thomas Bach told Deutsche Welle that he is opposed to a moment of silence, fearing it could inflame Arab tensions.

He told the German broadcaster he had heard Arab countries could boycott the opening ceremony if a moment of silence was arranged.
http://aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=40652

It is further again second hand reporting: " Thomas Bach has heard..." and "could". I can not however find it back on http://www.dw.de

[ANTPogo]

Originally Posted by Simon666

IOC vice president Thomas Bach told Deutsche Welle that he is opposed to a moment of silence, fearing it could inflame Arab tensions.

He told the German broadcaster he had heard Arab countries could boycott the opening ceremony if a moment of silence was arranged.
http://aroundtherings.com/articles/view.aspx?id=40652

More confirmation from the IOC directly that this isn't any kind of conspiracy theory. Thanks, Simon!

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

And?

You know what it implies but you'll die before you acknowledge.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

More confirmation from the IOC directly that this isn't any kind of conspiracy theory. Thanks, Simon!

If only that interview were anywhere on Deutsche Welle. It does show you that you believed the conspiracy theory that Arab nations blocked the one minute of silence by boycotting the Olympics instead of just the ceremony, IF even THAT is true as opposed to merely "I have heard that... could...". Again it shows you don't know what a direct source is.

[Spindrift]

Originally Posted by Simon666

You know what it implies but you'll die before you acknowledge.

I have no idea what it implies. Care to explain?

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Real Jewish victim of an act of terror. Those are allowed to lie. After all, anyone doubting HAS to be an anti semite and only anti semites want to be one.

You are the only one accusing her of lying and you have yet to provide any evidence.

No one has contested her statements. You have nothing to go on but your own bias.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

You are the only one accusing her of lying and you have yet to provide any evidence.

I have provided evidence that she's lying about the statement of the 'hands being tied' and evidence she's lying about Arab nations threatening to boycott the Olympics, or at the very least deliberately distorting "boycotting the opening ceremony" into "boycotting the entire Olympics".

[ANTPogo]

Originally Posted by Simon666

I have provided evidence that she's lying about the statement of the 'hands being tied'

No, you haven't done that.

Quote:

and evidence she's lying about Arab nations threatening to boycott the Olympics, or at the very least deliberately distorting "boycotting the opening ceremony" into "boycotting the entire Olympics".

No, you haven't done that either.

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

No, you haven't done that.

Originally Posted by ANTPogo

No, you haven't done that either.

Confusing "evidence" with "proof"? I never claimed proof.

[ANTPogo]

Originally Posted by Simon666

Confusing "evidence" with "proof"?

No.

Quote:

I never claimed proof.

You didn't have to.

[Simon666]

I can only bring forward the elements pointing to lies, aka evidence. If you refuse to believe it and instead believe Ankie Spitzer on her word and believe that all mighty Arab and muslim nations behind the scenes threatened to boycott the Olympics, overpowering Obama, US Congress and several nation's parliaments and top politicians, that's your choice. It shows you're a hardcore conspiracy believer.

[ANTPogo]

Originally Posted by Simon666

I can only bring forward the elements pointing to lies, aka evidence.

Well, then I wish you'd start.

Quote:

If you refuse to believe it and instead believe Ankie Spitzer on her word

Don't worry, I don't.

Quote:

and believe that all mighty Arab and muslim nations behind the scenes threatened to boycott the Olympics, overpowering Obama, US Congress and several nation's parliaments and top politicians, that's your choice.

Don't worry, they didn't.

Quote:

It shows you're a hardcore conspiracy believer.

No, it doesn't.

[Biscuit]

Originally Posted by Simon666

I can only bring forward the elements pointing to lies, aka evidence. If you refuse to believe it and instead believe Ankie Spitzer on her word and believe that all mighty Arab and muslim nations behind the scenes threatened to boycott the Olympics, overpowering Obama, US Congress and several nation's parliaments and top politicians, that's your choice. It shows you're a hardcore conspiracy believer.

The evidence points to Spitzers statements being true.

- The minutes from the IOC meetings 12 years ago confirm this
- The lack of denial from ANY Arab or Muslim IOC representative, nation, athlete, or even editorial. NO one denies this.
- Spitzer went on to call the IOC corrupt and anti-semetic yet the IOC still doesn't deny her claims.

You have nothing.

[Spindrift]

Originally Posted by Simon666

I can only bring forward the elements pointing to lies, aka evidence. If you refuse to believe it and instead believe Ankie Spitzer on her word and believe that all mighty Arab and muslim nations behind the scenes threatened to boycott the Olympics, overpowering Obama, US Congress and several nation's parliaments and top politicians, that's your choice. It shows you're a hardcore conspiracy believer.

I have no idea if Arab and muslim nations threatened a boycott, but are you aware that if there is anything the IOC fears more than anything else, it's a multi-nation boycott? It's bad for business. After the African nations boycott (1976), the American-led boycott (1980), the Soviet-led boycott (1984) and even the North Korean-led boycott (1988), the IOC will bend over backward to avoid a boycott.

[dafydd]

Originally Posted by Simon666

You know what it implies but you'll die before you acknowledge.

Ooh, dramatic. You read minds as well now?

[Simon666]

Originally Posted by Biscuit

- The minutes from the IOC meetings 12 years ago confirm this
- The lack of denial from ANY Arab or Muslim IOC representative, nation, athlete, or even editorial. NO one denies this.
- Spitzer went on to call the IOC corrupt and anti-semetic yet the IOC still doesn't deny her claims.

- What minutes? Source?
- Did Obama officially deny having gay sex with Donald Young?
- Because not responding or denying means truth right? Fallacy.