Dr? Wayne Dyer, woo woo extrordinaire

Yeah_Right · 7th June 2004, 07:10 PM

I PBS must be having a pledge drive since they're parading out the quack motivatoinal speakers. Dr Wayne Dyer is on tonight and he was going on about always keeping the correct sort of "energy" around you. He gave a bizarre example of his son listening to a rap cd. To prove that this CD had negative energy he compared it to a source of positive engergy, that being a organic banana. His son held the banana to his chest and put his arm out and Wanyne attempted to put the arm down with two fingers. Supposedly the positive banana energy repelled his efforts and the arm stayed up, but when his did this same thing with CD, the dark energy apparently weakened him and the arm went down. Oh that evil rap music!

What more than likely happened is that Wayne exerted more force to make sure he made his point, or his son relented to make him go away lol. It all makes me wonder if Wayne took the CD and spun it backwards to see if it contained Satanic messages.

tamiO · 7th June 2004, 07:20 PM

Was wondering what ever happened to him.

Sanamas · 7th June 2004, 07:48 PM

A banana versus a rap cd? Are you sure this guy isn't really a very subtle stand up comic?

Yeah_Right · 7th June 2004, 08:11 PM

I guess his point is the banana is mightier than the rap cd

Mercutio · 7th June 2004, 08:34 PM

I use that demo in class every year--not with rap and bananas, but with "negative energies". It has worked every year thus far (although there are easy ways to cheat if it does not). It is the easiest way I know to very saliently demonstrate the need for double-blind testing.

I ask a volunteer to hold his/her arms out and resist my pressure, while I push down on both elbows. Then I "take down the energy from the left side" with some dramatic hand movements, comments about how strong their energy is, and very intense looks. After this, I press down on the elbows again, and (thus far) invariably, the "energy-diminished" arm drops much more easily (to the very real astonishment of the volunteer). To prove it is not me, I bring up another volunteer to push the elbows, and restore the energy of the first volunteer (verified by the new elbow-pusher), then take the energy down from the other arm (again, verified by an astonished new elbow-pusher).

Now that they are convinced in the reality of the phenomenon, I restore the energy of the volunteer, then ask for the person to now stand with closed eyes. I make all the noises of "taking down the energy", but none of the hand-waving, no movement at all, really. The arm drops like a stone, demonstrating that it is the belief of the volunteer that was crucial. We then discuss ways (I demonstrate a few) in which the elbow-pusher could (consciously or non-consciously) influence the outcome. It soon becomes very evident that both the subject and the elbow-pusher must be blind to the conditions in order to demonstrate a real phenomenon. Anything less opens the door for expectancies, either a weaker arm from the subject or a stronger push from the elbow-pusher.

It is a very nice demonstration, and my students really love it.

Oh....and I can't stand Wayne Dyer.

Chad Noles · 7th June 2004, 09:22 PM

originally posted by Mercutio:

Quote:

Oh....and I can't stand Wayne Dyer.

That's because your Karma isn't right.You need to burn some sandalwood and drink green tea.It will return your ability to care about the insane.

Zombified · 7th June 2004, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercutio
It is a very nice demonstration, and my students really love it.

From what I can tell, Dyer seems to really love it, too... I've also seen him use it to demonstrate the power of "affirmations," e.g. your arm is stronger if you say nice things about yourself. I think he's been using this for a long time.

Grommitt · 8th June 2004, 12:12 AM

I went to school with Wayne Dyer in the "60's in Detroit. He's a very clever guy who knows how to make a buck with touchy-feely
seminars, books and tapes. He was a newage con man then and I see he still is. He is so full of crap I can't believe people don't challange some of the obviously made up stories he constantly tells about himself and his family.

The story he tells in his seminars about finding his estranged father's grave is so improbable it boogles the mind to find that people believe it.

New age wisdom for Smurfs from Dr. Wayne.

Zep · 8th June 2004, 12:31 AM

He wouldn't last 10 minutes on Australian TV. "New Age" motivational speakers don't do Australian TV - they know we're a VERY cynical bunch here. They prefer the live circuit with a captive audience of paying stoog...erm...converts. This guy would be fodder for stand-up in a week.

Nigel · 8th June 2004, 05:47 AM

Great demonstration Merc! Thanks for the explanation. Now, if only we could get that sort of thing on national TV, we might have something.

Mercutio · 8th June 2004, 05:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nigel
Great demonstration Merc! Thanks for the explanation. Now, if only we could get that sort of thing on national TV, we might have something.

Wow...I always liked the demo, but never really thought about building up a lecture-circuit show based around it. That would be so easy to do, too...

...and since Mercutio is always in need of money...

Nigel · 8th June 2004, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercutio
Wow...I always liked the demo, but never really thought about building up a lecture-circuit show based around it. That would be so easy to do, too...

...and since Mercutio is always in need of money...

Maybe at TAM3....

Mercutio · 8th June 2004, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nigel

Maybe at TAM3....

Funny...I thought of that, but then realized just how difficult it would be to find a person in an audience full of skeptics for this to work on!

...I mean, I'd probably have to go outside the Meeting participants, maybe get a showgirl to volunteer, and...

...ok, TAM3 it is!

bignickel · 8th June 2004, 09:01 AM

I wonder what would have happened if he tested a Bananarama CD?

kteutsch · 8th June 2004, 09:23 AM

I am also aware of at least one chiropractor who uses the arm-pushing deal to decide on dosages for vitamins and supplements. Hold some pills in your hand, he pushes down...no, a couple more... push push... there, that's the proper dosage.

No kidding (as if you thought I was).

He also got dosages for infants by doing the same thing with the parent while the parent holds the child.

I wish I hadn't remembered this. I have to go lie down now.

Paul C. Anagnostopoulos · 8th June 2004, 09:27 AM

Welcome, Kteutsch. You forgot the part where the chiropractor first implants a programmable detector in the patient's hand. Each pill is coded and the detector reads the dosages, calculates whether they are appropriate, then activates/deactivates the patient's arm muscles.

~~ Paul

kteutsch · 8th June 2004, 10:01 AM

Gosh... I never knew how it worked.

I had assumed it was some kind of pseudoscience.

ca3799 · 8th June 2004, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kteutsch
I am also aware of at least one chiropractor who uses the arm-pushing deal to decide on dosages for vitamins and supplements. Hold some pills in your hand, he pushes down...no, a couple more... push push... there, that's the proper dosage.

No kidding (as if you thought I was).

He also got dosages for infants by doing the same thing with the parent while the parent holds the child.

I wish I hadn't remembered this. I have to go lie down now.

Well your chiropractor is obviously a quack- my neighbor's chiro can test my neighbor and prescribe supplements for her DAD who is not even in the chiro office, but at home!

zakur · 8th June 2004, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kteutsch
I am also aware of at least one chiropractor who uses the arm-pushing deal to decide on dosages for vitamins and supplements. Hold some pills in your hand, he pushes down...no, a couple more... push push... there, that's the proper dosage.

No kidding (as if you thought I was).

He also got dosages for infants by doing the same thing with the parent while the parent holds the child.

I wish I hadn't remembered this. I have to go lie down now.

I saw this "arm-pushing deal" on a TV infomercial for Phase 4 Orthotics a couple weeks ago. They were doing a "man-on-the-street" demo asking passers-by to try them. The host could push down people's arms with no problem...until they stood on the revolutionary orthotics.

lofgoernost · 8th June 2004, 02:52 PM

I've enjoyed it the couple of times I've heard Wayne Dyer, in a similar fashion to how I used to come home from school and flip on the Bob Ross painting show. Puts me in a mellow state.

pupdog · 10th June 2004, 07:35 PM

I just came across Guru Dyer giving his banana talk. I think I'll mail PBS and let them know that I shall be re-routing my donation to JREF once again.

Dyer can do his bananas all day long and still won't have appeal.

Peter S. · 10th June 2004, 08:51 PM

I made a fool out of a guy who was trying to demonstrate "chi" using the arm pushing gag.

He had me hold my arm out and pushed on it and asked me to resist. He was "apparently" was unable to push my arm down. He then waved his hands around to "disrupt" the "chi" and when he pushed again he was able to push my arm down.

The people watching were impressed...Until I got some rope and tied it in a loop around a heavy chair. I then asked him to repeat the demonstration, but instead of pushing down on my arm to hang the chair on my arm.

The guy was really puzzled as to why the trick didn't work.

Mercutio · 10th June 2004, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter S.

The guy was really puzzled as to why the trick didn't work.

So...did dawn break for this guy? Did he realize that he might....just might...have been able to tip the scales a bit due to his own expectations?

(I take your description to imply that he was honest in his ignorance)

Peter S. · 11th June 2004, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mercutio

So...did dawn break for this guy? Did he realize that he might....just might...have been able to tip the scales a bit due to his own expectations?

(I take your description to imply that he was honest in his ignorance)

I'm quite sure the guy is still a believer, but the whole thing made quite an impression on the people who were watching.

T'ai Chi · 11th June 2004, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zakur
I saw this "arm-pushing deal" on a TV infomercial for Phase 4 Orthotics a couple weeks ago. They were doing a "man-on-the-street" demo asking passers-by to try them. The host could push down people's arms with no problem...until they stood on the revolutionary orthotics.

hehe

Without the product, your body lines go all non-horizontal apparently.

7th June 2004, 07:10 PM	#1
Yeah_Right Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 474	Dr? Wayne Dyer, woo woo extrordinaire I PBS must be having a pledge drive since they're parading out the quack motivatoinal speakers. Dr Wayne Dyer is on tonight and he was going on about always keeping the correct sort of "energy" around you. He gave a bizarre example of his son listening to a rap cd. To prove that this CD had negative energy he compared it to a source of positive engergy, that being a organic banana. His son held the banana to his chest and put his arm out and Wanyne attempted to put the arm down with two fingers. Supposedly the positive banana energy repelled his efforts and the arm stayed up, but when his did this same thing with CD, the dark energy apparently weakened him and the arm went down. Oh that evil rap music! What more than likely happened is that Wayne exerted more force to make sure he made his point, or his son relented to make him go away lol. It all makes me wonder if Wayne took the CD and spun it backwards to see if it contained Satanic messages.
	__________________ I didn't believe in reincarnation in a past life either. CEO_ESQ:"Something about pyramids seems to cause a shutdown of critical faculties in certain people."

7th June 2004, 07:20 PM	#2
tamiO Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,287	Was wondering what ever happened to him.
tamiO Illuminator Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 3,287

7th June 2004, 07:48 PM	#3
Sanamas Thinker Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 173	A banana versus a rap cd? Are you sure this guy isn't really a very subtle stand up comic?
Sanamas Thinker Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 173

7th June 2004, 08:11 PM	#4
Yeah_Right Critical Thinker Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 474	I guess his point is the banana is mightier than the rap cd
	__________________ I didn't believe in reincarnation in a past life either. CEO_ESQ:"Something about pyramids seems to cause a shutdown of critical faculties in certain people."

7th June 2004, 08:34 PM	#5
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,140	I use that demo in class every year--not with rap and bananas, but with "negative energies". It has worked every year thus far (although there are easy ways to cheat if it does not). It is the easiest way I know to very saliently demonstrate the need for double-blind testing. I ask a volunteer to hold his/her arms out and resist my pressure, while I push down on both elbows. Then I "take down the energy from the left side" with some dramatic hand movements, comments about how strong their energy is, and very intense looks. After this, I press down on the elbows again, and (thus far) invariably, the "energy-diminished" arm drops much more easily (to the very real astonishment of the volunteer). To prove it is not me, I bring up another volunteer to push the elbows, and restore the energy of the first volunteer (verified by the new elbow-pusher), then take the energy down from the other arm (again, verified by an astonished new elbow-pusher). Now that they are convinced in the reality of the phenomenon, I restore the energy of the volunteer, then ask for the person to now stand with closed eyes. I make all the noises of "taking down the energy", but none of the hand-waving, no movement at all, really. The arm drops like a stone, demonstrating that it is the belief of the volunteer that was crucial. We then discuss ways (I demonstrate a few) in which the elbow-pusher could (consciously or non-consciously) influence the outcome. It soon becomes very evident that both the subject and the elbow-pusher must be blind to the conditions in order to demonstrate a real phenomenon. Anything less opens the door for expectancies, either a weaker arm from the subject or a stronger push from the elbow-pusher. It is a very nice demonstration, and my students really love it. Oh....and I can't stand Wayne Dyer.
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

7th June 2004, 09:22 PM	#6
Chad Noles Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 534	originally posted by Mercutio: Quote: Oh....and I can't stand Wayne Dyer. That's because your Karma isn't right.You need to burn some sandalwood and drink green tea.It will return your ability to care about the insane.
Chad Noles Muse Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 534	__________________ Breathe,breathe from the bag of visions-South Park

7th June 2004, 10:21 PM	#7
Zombified Back From The Dead Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Inside my brain Posts: 1,373	Quote: Originally posted by Mercutio It is a very nice demonstration, and my students really love it. From what I can tell, Dyer seems to really love it, too... I've also seen him use it to demonstrate the power of "affirmations," e.g. your arm is stronger if you say nice things about yourself. I think he's been using this for a long time.

8th June 2004, 12:12 AM	#8
Grommitt Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 93	I went to school with Wayne Dyer in the "60's in Detroit. He's a very clever guy who knows how to make a buck with touchy-feely seminars, books and tapes. He was a newage con man then and I see he still is. He is so full of crap I can't believe people don't challange some of the obviously made up stories he constantly tells about himself and his family. The story he tells in his seminars about finding his estranged father's grave is so improbable it boogles the mind to find that people believe it. New age wisdom for Smurfs from Dr. Wayne.
Grommitt Scholar Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 93

8th June 2004, 12:31 AM	#9
Zep Guest Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 24,230	He wouldn't last 10 minutes on Australian TV. "New Age" motivational speakers don't do Australian TV - they know we're a VERY cynical bunch here. They prefer the live circuit with a captive audience of paying stoog...erm...converts. This guy would be fodder for stand-up in a week.
Zep Guest Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 24,230

8th June 2004, 05:47 AM	#10
Nigel Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981	Great demonstration Merc! Thanks for the explanation. Now, if only we could get that sort of thing on national TV, we might have something.
Nigel Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981	__________________ "I won't drive one of those crapwagons." - Paul Tracy

8th June 2004, 05:56 AM	#11
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,140	Quote: Originally posted by Nigel Great demonstration Merc! Thanks for the explanation. Now, if only we could get that sort of thing on national TV, we might have something. Wow...I always liked the demo, but never really thought about building up a lecture-circuit show based around it. That would be so easy to do, too... ...and since Mercutio is always in need of money...
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

8th June 2004, 06:28 AM	#12
Nigel Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981	Quote: Originally posted by Mercutio Wow...I always liked the demo, but never really thought about building up a lecture-circuit show based around it. That would be so easy to do, too... ...and since Mercutio is always in need of money... Maybe at TAM3....
Nigel Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 1,981	__________________ "I won't drive one of those crapwagons." - Paul Tracy

8th June 2004, 06:43 AM	#13
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,140	Quote: Originally posted by Nigel Maybe at TAM3.... Funny...I thought of that, but then realized just how difficult it would be to find a person in an audience full of skeptics for this to work on! ...I mean, I'd probably have to go outside the Meeting participants, maybe get a showgirl to volunteer, and... ...ok, TAM3 it is!
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

8th June 2004, 09:01 AM	#14
bignickel Mad Mod Poet God Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,582	I wonder what would have happened if he tested a Bananarama CD?
	__________________ "You can find that book everywhere and the risk is that many people who read it believe that those fairy tales are real. I think I have the responsibility to clear things up to unmask the cheap lies contained in books like that." - Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone

8th June 2004, 09:23 AM	#15
kteutsch New Blood Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 10	Arms and the man I am also aware of at least one chiropractor who uses the arm-pushing deal to decide on dosages for vitamins and supplements. Hold some pills in your hand, he pushes down...no, a couple more... push push... there, that's the proper dosage. No kidding (as if you thought I was). He also got dosages for infants by doing the same thing with the parent while the parent holds the child. I wish I hadn't remembered this. I have to go lie down now.
kteutsch New Blood Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 10

8th June 2004, 09:27 AM	#16
Paul C. Anagnostopoulos Looking for Fountain of Smart Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: a little toolshed Posts: 16,757	Welcome, Kteutsch. You forgot the part where the chiropractor first implants a programmable detector in the patient's hand. Each pill is coded and the detector reads the dosages, calculates whether they are appropriate, then activates/deactivates the patient's arm muscles. ~~ Paul
	__________________ Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. ---Susan Ertz

8th June 2004, 10:01 AM	#17
kteutsch New Blood Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 10	Gosh... I never knew how it worked. I had assumed it was some kind of pseudoscience.
kteutsch New Blood Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 10

8th June 2004, 10:30 AM	#18
ca3799 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 126	Re: Arms and the man Quote: Originally posted by kteutsch I am also aware of at least one chiropractor who uses the arm-pushing deal to decide on dosages for vitamins and supplements. Hold some pills in your hand, he pushes down...no, a couple more... push push... there, that's the proper dosage. No kidding (as if you thought I was). He also got dosages for infants by doing the same thing with the parent while the parent holds the child. I wish I hadn't remembered this. I have to go lie down now. Well your chiropractor is obviously a quack- my neighbor's chiro can test my neighbor and prescribe supplements for her DAD who is not even in the chiro office, but at home!
ca3799 Thinker Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 126

8th June 2004, 01:45 PM	#19
zakur Illuminator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 3,265	Re: Arms and the man Quote: Originally posted by kteutsch I am also aware of at least one chiropractor who uses the arm-pushing deal to decide on dosages for vitamins and supplements. Hold some pills in your hand, he pushes down...no, a couple more... push push... there, that's the proper dosage. No kidding (as if you thought I was). He also got dosages for infants by doing the same thing with the parent while the parent holds the child. I wish I hadn't remembered this. I have to go lie down now. I saw this "arm-pushing deal" on a TV infomercial for Phase 4 Orthotics a couple weeks ago. They were doing a "man-on-the-street" demo asking passers-by to try them. The host could push down people's arms with no problem...until they stood on the revolutionary orthotics.
	__________________ "I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance." -Thomas Carlyle "That's the problem these days: nobody thinks of the tumors." -steinhenge

8th June 2004, 02:52 PM	#20
lofgoernost Critical Thinker Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 401	I've enjoyed it the couple of times I've heard Wayne Dyer, in a similar fashion to how I used to come home from school and flip on the Bob Ross painting show. Puts me in a mellow state.

10th June 2004, 07:35 PM	#21
pupdog Muse Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 627	I just came across Guru Dyer giving his banana talk. I think I'll mail PBS and let them know that I shall be re-routing my donation to JREF once again. Dyer can do his bananas all day long and still won't have appeal.
	__________________ Professor Pupdog

10th June 2004, 08:51 PM	#22
Peter S. Magician Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arlington, MA Posts: 832	I made a fool out of a guy who was trying to demonstrate "chi" using the arm pushing gag. He had me hold my arm out and pushed on it and asked me to resist. He was "apparently" was unable to push my arm down. He then waved his hands around to "disrupt" the "chi" and when he pushed again he was able to push my arm down. The people watching were impressed...Until I got some rope and tied it in a loop around a heavy chair. I then asked him to repeat the demonstration, but instead of pushing down on my arm to hang the chair on my arm. The guy was really puzzled as to why the trick didn't work.

10th June 2004, 09:28 PM	#23
Mercutio Shakespeare's Sock Puppet Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Live Free Or Die Posts: 16,140	Quote: Originally posted by Peter S. The guy was really puzzled as to why the trick didn't work. So...did dawn break for this guy? Did he realize that he might....just might...have been able to tip the scales a bit due to his own expectations? (I take your description to imply that he was honest in his ignorance)
	__________________ "But to see her was to love her Love but her, and love forever."

11th June 2004, 09:10 PM	#24
Peter S. Magician Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Arlington, MA Posts: 832	Quote: Originally posted by Mercutio So...did dawn break for this guy? Did he realize that he might....just might...have been able to tip the scales a bit due to his own expectations? (I take your description to imply that he was honest in his ignorance) I'm quite sure the guy is still a believer, but the whole thing made quite an impression on the people who were watching.

11th June 2004, 10:36 PM	#25
T'ai Chi Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 11,233	Re: Re: Arms and the man Quote: Originally posted by zakur I saw this "arm-pushing deal" on a TV infomercial for Phase 4 Orthotics a couple weeks ago. They were doing a "man-on-the-street" demo asking passers-by to try them. The host could push down people's arms with no problem...until they stood on the revolutionary orthotics. hehe Without the product, your body lines go all non-horizontal apparently.
	__________________ http://www.statisticool.com