JREF Homepage Swift Blog Events Calendar $1 Million Paranormal Challenge The Amaz!ng Meeting Useful Links Support Us
James Randi Educational Foundation JREF Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   JREF Forum » General Topics » History, Literature, and the Arts
Click Here To Donate

Notices


Welcome to the JREF Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

Tags alternate history , Nazi Germany history , World War II history

Reply
Old 26th October 2012, 12:47 PM   #201
Captain_Swoop
Philosopher
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 5,215
It was done in the UK so that something was seen to be done.
As for the home guard, they were not altogether as portrayed in the sit com 'Dads Army'

Those along the SOuth coast largely accepted they were probably going to die if there was an invasion. Their job was to hold up and delay any invaders for as long as possible to allow the regular forces stationed inland time to get into action. They were to block roads, blow bridges and ambush. Although lightly armed themselves they were fighting on home ground and defending their own homes etc.
Captain_Swoop is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2012, 12:50 PM   #202
anglolawyer
Philosopher
 
anglolawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey, england
Posts: 7,978
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I see your point! So why was it done in the UK?
To give the yokels, armed to the teeth with pitchforks and secure behind impassable barricades of hay bales, upturned carts and old bedsteads, a sense of involvement and superiority over the enemy.
anglolawyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2012, 12:57 PM   #203
Madalch
The Jester
 
Madalch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: The wet coast.
Posts: 9,436
Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
To give the yokels, armed to the teeth with pitchforks and secure behind impassable barricades of hay bales, upturned carts and old bedsteads, a sense of involvement and superiority over the enemy.
But they were English- didn't they already have a sense of superiority over the foreigners?
__________________
As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of resolving approaches zero. -Vaarsuvius
It's a rum state of affairs when you feel like punching a jar of mayonnaise in the face. -Charlie Brooker
Madalch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th October 2012, 01:45 PM   #204
Border Reiver
Illuminator
 
Border Reiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 3,175
"Wogs begin at Calais."

While not that bad, initially the Home Guard were definitely not front line troops. They were generally older men (which in the UK meant that they probably had military experience from WWI). The HG were a last line of defence which could be used for non-combat duty and shore watching to free up the better trained and equipped forces for other duties.

By making the HG a branch of the MoD would also mean that they were lawful combatant according to international law.
__________________
Questions, comments, queries, bitches, complaints, rude gestures and/or remarks?
Border Reiver is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 09:35 AM   #205
anglolawyer
Philosopher
 
anglolawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey, england
Posts: 7,978
Originally Posted by Madalch View Post
But they were English- didn't they already have a sense of superiority over the foreigners?
Of course, you are quite correct. The English were lucky nothing untoward happened to shake this happy fantasy - or unlucky, depending on your POV, but that's a topic for another thread.
anglolawyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 05:44 PM   #206
Henry Skinner
Scholar
 
Henry Skinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Rotterdam, Netherlands
Posts: 113
Originally Posted by Nick Terry View Post
FYI, my doctoral supervisor was Richard Overy, and I'm an inside-cover-listed contributor to Occupied Economies: An Economic History of Nazi-Occupied Europe 1939-1945.
My knowledge of Dutch economy under Nazi occupation is spotty. AIUI the Germans had high hopes of integrating Dutch industry into the war economy, which failed miserably. After this became apparent they carted off everything they could, including labour.

I don't know Prof. Klemann's work, but I'll have a look at it as soon as I can.
__________________
Give a man a fire and he's warm for the day. But set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett - Jingo
Henry Skinner is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 11:05 PM   #207
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
All the Nazis had to do was stop being Nazis during the invasion of the Soviet Union. If they had painted it as a liberation of the oppressed, Germany could have gained huge support from the Ukraine and Belorussians. Instead their treatment of the local, managed to make them look worse than the Soviet leadership
I thought the Germans were received as liberators? Many of the oppressed peoples under the Soviet regime joined the SS, especially in the Baltic countries.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 11:09 PM   #208
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
The Nazis werent in much of a position to attack Russia in Spring of 1940.

The things about the Germans in WWII is that they never really 'got' concepts like strategy and logistics. I think this is a lot to do with the fact that most senior Nazis were just a bunch of perverts with no basic competences beyond conniving and cruelty.

So on the most fundamental level, the Germans could never have won WWII unless they somehow acquired a fundamental understanding of things they never understood.
I see you got most of your Nazi history from menís magazines from the 1950s.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 11:13 PM   #209
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Rwalsh View Post
If American would of allied with Hitler.
And if Charles Lindbergh ran for president in 1940 and won.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 11:21 PM   #210
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by h.g.Whiz View Post
If what's his face, Himmler I believe it was, hadn't got paranoid and removed a certain leading scientist from their V project. Then Hitler might have got that Trump card he was so desperately counting on
They had the bomb by March 1945, a bit too late.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Thuringia_(nuclear_test)
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 11:29 PM   #211
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Hubert Cumberdale View Post
Making nothing but a string of colossal strategic and logistic errors is indeed to not really 'getting' strategy or logistics.

After the battle of France there is not a single German campaign that was not ruinously affected by crass strategic mismanagement and misadventure and disastrous logistics.
Itís quite surprising you would say this. Arenít Germans especially good at these sorts of things?
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th October 2012, 11:34 PM   #212
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Itís quite surprising you would say this. Arenít Germans especially good at these sorts of things?
Hi MaGZ. Hope you don't mind, we've been saying bad things about your chums.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 12:40 AM   #213
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by The Central Scrutinizer View Post
Then they could have carved up Turkey and mopped up Greece.
But only after they got Hungary.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 12:54 AM   #214
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Scott Haley View Post
Before the U.S. entered the war, a lot of prominent Americans were pro-Nazi. Is it plausible that the United States might have allied with Nazi Germany?
Some in Congress would.

http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/List_of...sh_congressmen
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:05 AM   #215
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by MG1962 View Post
The German economy was well into the hole before the start of the war. Capital works like the famed autobahns were virtually built with slave labor with over a 1000 construction and transport companies going bankrupt because they could not get paid for their work
evidence
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:14 AM   #216
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Simon666 View Post
They planned to exterminate the mad Arabs too, Abdul? I'm starting to like the Nazis more and more...
Wrong.
There were Arabs in the German Army.
http://en.metapedia.org/wiki/Foreign_volunteers_in_the_German_Army_(WWII)
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:20 AM   #217
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
What about the sane Arabs? As far as mad is concerned, Hitler exterminated all sorts of mad people, including flaxen-haired Aryan maidens. Gas vans were first employed, as far as I have read, to facilitate this enterprise. But don't let me spoil your touching love for Nazidom.
Show me a picture if a death gas van.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:29 AM   #218
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by StankApe View Post
I disagree, how were they going to pay the 6 million unemployed that had either been put to work by the state building up the war machine or put into concentration camps? The state was not in good enough shape to just perpetuate the status quo forever. They were going into horrible debt. The only way Hitler's plan works is to invade Poland.
Nonsense
In debt to who, Jewish bankers?
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:35 AM   #219
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Lots of tired old arguments: the Nazis wanted to make people speak German; Hitler started the war by invading Poland. And you say it can't be so, because if somebody else had invaded Poland that other person would have started the war. I'll think about all this. What if somebody else had murdered the Jews? Then Hitler wouldn't have been responsible, so it is a tired old argument to suggest that he was, the poor maligned and persecuted man!
Are you suggesting if Hitler had not antagonized the Jews other countries would have remained neutral?
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:38 AM   #220
anglolawyer
Philosopher
 
anglolawyer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: surrey, england
Posts: 7,978
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
I thought the Germans were received as liberators? Many of the oppressed peoples under the Soviet regime joined the SS, especially in the Baltic countries.
They were but to see what happened in The Ukraine, read Babi Yar.
anglolawyer is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:38 AM   #221
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post
I'm not sure what you're getting at but I think I was trying to say the same thing.

Germany didn't have (much) oil which is one of the reasons Hitler wanted Russia. But it wasn't just oil, it was iron ore and a whole lot of other metals that were vital to industrial economies.

However, I do remember reading somewhere (I apologise, it's been a while since I've read this stuff but I can check the bookshelf if I have to although Mien Kampf went in the bin years ago), that Hitler saw the Ukraine as a potential food source for Greater Germany in the future. But I'd be more than happy to be corrected/educated on that.
I have noticed in the last few posts you are trying to convince us you are anti-Hitler.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 01:49 AM   #222
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
MaGZ and Simon666 going to slug it out? Can I get a ringside seat?
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 02:09 AM   #223
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Show me a picture if a death gas van.
It would look like any other van, and you would say it was delivering laundry in Dusseldorf. Instead, here's a picture of the side of a coach of a troop train bearing Wehrmacht soldiers on their way to Poland. http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/p026det.htm

There is ample evidence of the Nazi policy of murdering physically or mentally disabled or disturbed people. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_e...n_Nazi_Germany
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 02:39 AM   #224
Krikkiter
Graduate Poster
 
Krikkiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,282
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
I have noticed in the last few posts you are trying to convince us you are anti-Hitler.

And you'd be mistaken. I've been discussing the topic at hand. Talking about whether or not one is pro or anti Hitler would be off topic.
__________________
"Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."
Krikkiter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 02:46 AM   #225
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post
And you'd be mistaken. I've been discussing the topic at hand. Talking about whether or not one is pro or anti Hitler would be off topic.
Go on! Tell us anyway! The mods won't bite you.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 03:03 AM   #226
Krikkiter
Graduate Poster
 
Krikkiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,282
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Go on! Tell us anyway! The mods won't bite you.
Ha ha!

Well, based on what I've read (because you know, I never got to meet him), the guy was a complete nut with multiple personality disorders. I'm not usually a fan of these kinds of people.

But what else is there to say really? Responsible for the death of millions, many in concentration camps and gas chambers. He threw the entire globe into catastrophic conflict and it was a shame he committed suicide. Even had he been captured alive, a hanging death would have been too good for him.

Let me know if I haven't been clear enough.
__________________
"Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."
Krikkiter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 03:26 AM   #227
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post
Ha ha!

Well, based on what I've read (because you know, I never got to meet him), the guy was a complete nut with multiple personality disorders. I'm not usually a fan of these kinds of people.

But what else is there to say really? Responsible for the death of millions, many in concentration camps and gas chambers. He threw the entire globe into catastrophic conflict and it was a shame he committed suicide. Even had he been captured alive, a hanging death would have been too good for him.

Let me know if I haven't been clear enough.
Amply clear. I was merely a bit confused by something MaGZ stated (which often happens, by the way), about you "trying" to convince us you're anti-Hitler. You have certainly convinced me!
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 03:27 AM   #228
Mikeys
Muse
 
Mikeys's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Loonar Orbit
Posts: 502
Originally Posted by Nick Terry View Post
It's true if you have only a basic understanding of the Eastern Front you might well conclude that the Wehrmacht's logistics were poor. But this was not in fact the case.
Good or bad, they relied on good fortune and hope.
Quote:
In 1941/2, Army Groups North and South held virtually all of their ground and were able to ward off numerous Soviet offensives from December 1941 onwards without real difficulty. Both army groups had to withdraw overextended salients (to Tikhvin and Rostov), but this was largely because of a shortage of forces and the strength of the opposing Red Army forces, not because of logistics. Army Group North benefited considerably from not only sea transport but also the shorter rail links through the Baltic states to the Leningrad front, and had little difficulty in maintaining the siege until January 1944. Certainly no real logistical difficulties.
Which was of no consequence since the war was decided at the Don.The Russians battered everywhere for the jack of it but lacked logistical support to chase westward. Have a look at who participated in the Stalingrad counterstrike, all top rank of Russian military. They didn't care about elsewhere at that point in time. Wherever priorities were shifted the Germans would be battered out of strength in short order. I call it good strategy, something the Wehrmacht was never able to come up with in the course of war.
Quote:
Soviet offensives on the southern flank of Army Group North, advancing in parallel to offensives against the northern flank of Army Group Centre - and achieving their original penetration more or less along the army group boundary - succeeded in temporarily encircling II Corps at Demyansk, which was then supplied by air. That was the very first time aerial resupply was used on a major scale in military history, and the success of the operation led to a fatal overestimation of Luftwaffe capabilities at Stalingrad.
The losses for Luftwaffe to spring Demiansk were not worth it on paper. Stalingrad was a sacrifice. Hitler didn't plan to relieve it from the first. Take it or die was the game. Luftwaffe was not ordered to do all they could. Paulus became marshal for a reason. The thing is the 6th army had not even been informed of the impending counterstrike until they themselves could have done nothing to save it, the only reasonable decision being withdrawal.

Quote:
The defeat before Moscow was extremely serious, and was in part caused by overextended supply lines which were very close to breaking point in November 1941. Undoubtedly, the Wehrmacht suffered heavier losses than it needed to because of the failure to provide winter uniforms, and it was unable to resist the Soviet winter offensive as well as it might have done. But it did resist, it resupplied and it reinforced (using rail, road and air transport) successfully, stopping the offensive in its tracks.
Everything was missing. A general, don't remember which when asked how many Panzer 4 were still in operation answered 4 is the correct number. Actually, there was no such a thing like final attack on Moscow. It was not possible in wildest dreams or on paper, save for newspaper.

Quote:
Wehrmacht logistics on the Eastern Front in 1942/43 functioned very well for Army Groups North, Centre and A; it was only Army Group B, and more specifically 6th Army plus the flanking Axis forces, which experienced problems, and then only in the immediate context of the Soviet counteroffensive at Stalingrad.
__________________
There is no escape from truth.

Last edited by Mikeys; 28th October 2012 at 03:29 AM.
Mikeys is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 03:39 AM   #229
Krikkiter
Graduate Poster
 
Krikkiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,282
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Amply clear. I was merely a bit confused by something MaGZ stated (which often happens, by the way), about you "trying" to convince us you're anti-Hitler. You have certainly convinced me!



I still have no idea why he would think that I was "pro Hitler" (whatever that actually means), or even where he got the idea that I was trying to come across as putting forward an opinion either way but I strongly suspect his intention was just to get a reaction. Which is why I responded the way I did.
__________________
"Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."
Krikkiter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 04:09 AM   #230
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post


I still have no idea why he would think that I was "pro Hitler" (whatever that actually means)
Maybe MaGZ could help you to understand what being "pro Hitler" means.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 05:24 AM   #231
Garrison
Master Poster
 
Garrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Milton Keynes UK
Posts: 2,000
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Nonsense
In debt to who, Jewish bankers?
It couldn't pay for imports, and would have had to print large amounts of paper money to carry on paying it's workers with the inevitable and crippling consequences of inflation. In the simplest terms they didn't have the material wealth to back up the cheques they were writing.
Garrison is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 05:37 AM   #232
Krikkiter
Graduate Poster
 
Krikkiter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,282
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Maybe MaGZ could help you to understand what being "pro Hitler" means.
Or... not?
__________________
"Even among men lacking all distinction he inevitably stood out as a man lacking more distinction than all the rest, and people who met him were always impressed by how unimpressive he was."
Krikkiter is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 08:18 AM   #233
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by anglolawyer View Post
They were but to see what happened in The Ukraine, read Babi Yar.
My understanding is the local Ukrainians wanted to avenge their suffering under the hands of the Jewish Bolsheviks so the local Jewish population had to pay the price.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 08:24 AM   #234
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
It would look like any other van, and you would say it was delivering laundry in Dusseldorf. Instead, here's a picture of the side of a coach of a troop train bearing Wehrmacht soldiers on their way to Poland. http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/gallery/p026det.htm

There is ample evidence of the Nazi policy of murdering physically or mentally disabled or disturbed people. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_e...n_Nazi_Germany
So, Nazi death vans were being used on Jews as early as September 1939. I didnít know that.
And they used them on their own little children. I didnít know that either.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 08:41 AM   #235
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Krikkiter View Post


I still have no idea why he would think that I was "pro Hitler" (whatever that actually means), or even where he got the idea that I was trying to come across as putting forward an opinion either way but I strongly suspect his intention was just to get a reaction. Which is why I responded the way I did.
In post 97 you said: ďAlso, Hitler was a nut."
To me that seemed a bit gratuitous.

Throwing your copy of Mien Kampf into a bin was also a clue. It just seemed to me you had a need to prove something to others here and to yourself as well. Perhaps there is something deep inside of you that you can not come to terms with?
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 08:45 AM   #236
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
It couldn't pay for imports, and would have had to print large amounts of paper money to carry on paying it's workers with the inevitable and crippling consequences of inflation. In the simplest terms they didn't have the material wealth to back up the cheques they were writing.
Didnít Hitlerís Germany liberate itself from the international banking system? And wasnít that the real reason the Allies wanted to destroy Germany?
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 08:59 AM   #237
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
Didnít Hitlerís Germany liberate itself from the international banking system? And wasnít that the real reason the Allies wanted to destroy Germany?
No.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 09:04 AM   #238
Craig B
Philosopher
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 9,335
Originally Posted by MaGZ View Post
So, Nazi death vans were being used on Jews as early as September 1939. I didn’t know that.
And they used them on their own little children. I didn’t know that either.
I didn't say they were being used on Jews in 1939. Can we agree that they were subsequently used for the purpose of killing Jews? And the Nazis may have exclusively used other methods of killing their own little children, but kill them they did, as my linked source shows.

May I thank you for helping Krikkiter understand what being "pro Hitler" means. I'm sure he must have grasped the concept by now.
Craig B is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 09:16 AM   #239
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
No.
I know that when Hitler came to power in Germany, he wanted to repay the war debt; but wasnít there a time when he repudiated the debt and broke from the international banking system?
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th October 2012, 09:37 AM   #240
MaGZ
Philosopher
 
MaGZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,846
Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I didn't say they were being used on Jews in 1939. Can we agree that they were subsequently used for the purpose of killing Jews? And the Nazis may have exclusively used other methods of killing their own little children, but kill them they did, as my linked source shows.
I’m really skeptical of the Nazi gas van claim, I have always thought it the weakest link of the grand Holocaust.

I cannot verify this statement supposedly given by Hitler in 1929 as reported in his paper, "that an average annual removal of 700,000-800,000 of the weakest of a million babies meant an increase in the power of the nation and not a weakening"

To suggest Hitler wanted 4/5th of the German babies born to be eliminated is not creditable.

I supposed this is presented to cause outrage even thou the Spartans and perhaps other cultures engaged in this practice on a more brutal level. And yet today we have abortions on a record scale for no other reason than convenience.

Last edited by MaGZ; 28th October 2012 at 09:42 AM.
MaGZ is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

JREF Forum » General Topics » History, Literature, and the Arts

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:10 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2001-2013, James Randi Educational Foundation. All Rights Reserved.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.