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Tags civil rights , gender identity , law enforcement issues , privacy , transgender

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Old 15th November 2012, 11:03 PM   #121
Folly
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Once it's cut off then you can use the girls' locker room.

Until then, if it comes down to the psychological health of an adult vs. a child, I'll go with the child.
Really? Not every TG woman goes for surgery to "get it cut off". You'll be happier with women randomly appearing in the men's changing room? Are you going to check for a penis, then breath a sigh of relief? What if they keep a towel? You'll never know! Or the other way around - do a safe google image search for Buck Angel. Should he be in the women's changing room?

Silly, Beerina.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:45 AM   #122
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Why don't they just build one locker room with a bunch of locking cubicles to shower and change in? Then no one has to see anyone naked. I'll never understand the appeal of showering and hanging around naked in front of your same-sex friends.
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Old 16th November 2012, 03:13 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
Why don't they just build one locker room with a bunch of locking cubicles to shower and change in? Then no one has to see anyone naked. I'll never understand the appeal of showering and hanging around naked in front of your same-sex friends.

Supposedly because it is more expensive. But, frankly, I don't technically buy that. It would be more expensive, but it wouldn't be that much more expensive. Definitely not anywhere near twice as expensive.

If it is a facility that provides lockers, the lockers would have to be on some type of carrousel system. So you could access your locker no matter which cubicle you are in.

If the facility does not have lockers it would be even cheaper.

So the only real other answer is, tradition.
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Old 16th November 2012, 03:36 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Supposedly because it is more expensive. But, frankly, I don't technically buy that. It would be more expensive, but it wouldn't be that much more expensive. Definitely not anywhere near twice as expensive.

If it is a facility that provides lockers, the lockers would have to be on some type of carrousel system. So you could access your locker no matter which cubicle you are in.

If the facility does not have lockers it would be even cheaper.

So the only real other answer is, tradition.
Or you could carry your stuff from the cubicle to the locker... We have a bench and hooks to rest your stuff on so you don't have to put it on the floor.
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Old 16th November 2012, 07:00 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
... Or "he".
No, he is sexist. We've been over this already, stop trying to rehash an old argument.

If you do not know the gender of the person to whom you are speaking or about whom you are speaking then, you use "they" as a pronoun. Not "he."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They
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Old 16th November 2012, 07:00 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by Folly View Post
Really? Not every TG woman goes for surgery to "get it cut off". You'll be happier with women randomly appearing in the men's changing room? Are you going to check for a penis, then breath a sigh of relief? What if they keep a towel? You'll never know! Or the other way around - do a safe google image search for Buck Angel. Should he be in the women's changing room?

Silly, Beerina.
Also transguys rarely get surgery so men will be walking into the womens changing rooms. Clearly you need a detailed genital inspection on entering
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Old 16th November 2012, 07:52 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by thaiboxerken View Post
Yes, because seeing a penis always scars a child for life.
Yes, because mildly disturbing behavior is ok as long as it doesn't completely wreck someone Ooh that's fun
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Old 16th November 2012, 07:55 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by Folly View Post
Really? Not every TG woman goes for surgery to "get it cut off". You'll be happier with women randomly appearing in the men's changing room? Are you going to check for a penis, then breath a sigh of relief? What if they keep a towel? You'll never know! Or the other way around - do a safe google image search for Buck Angel. Should he be in the women's changing room?

Silly, Beerina.
People with penises should not go into locker rooms with little girls and whip it out. Why is this difficult to understand?

There's a bunch of feigned outrage idiocy going on here. It's ok, really, to support gay rigts and other stuff and still think it wrong to expose children to the conceits of adults.
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The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?
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Old 16th November 2012, 07:58 AM   #129
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By the way, I can attack my own position better than you clownish meme regurgitators.

There are cultures with frontal nudity around the world and they don't collapse.


Boy, that was easy. You guys suck at thinking.
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Old 16th November 2012, 08:05 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Yes, because mildly disturbing behavior is ok as long as it doesn't completely wreck someone Ooh that's fun
Why is seeing a penis -or any other body part disturbing at all????

I honestly don't get it. Without penises, there would be no children.... These parents/college admins/whoever sent a pack of small children into a locker room with adult strangers, knowing those strangers would be in various stages of undress.

I knew when I was three years old that sometimes people have odd body parts.

Would exposing a third breast be "mildly disturbing"? How about having a surgical scar? Being in the third trimester? Would seeing a navel inside out disturb little Mary? How about wounds? Will little Baby Jane have nightmares if she sees a recluse bite or a long row of sutures?

If those children are so small and so delicate and so fragile and have such refined sensibilities, why in hell did anyone allow them to enter a locker room filled with adult strangers?
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Old 16th November 2012, 08:10 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
People with penises should not go into locker rooms with little girls and whip it out. Why is this difficult to understand?

There's a bunch of feigned outrage idiocy going on here. It's ok, really, to support gay rigts and other stuff and still think it wrong to expose children to the conceits of adults.

If we are going by this logic they also shouldn't "whip it out" in front of little boys. Because something "disturbing" could happen.

Which conceits are those children exposed to exactly?
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Old 16th November 2012, 09:38 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
Why don't they just build one locker room with a bunch of locking cubicles to shower and change in? Then no one has to see anyone naked. I'll never understand the appeal of showering and hanging around naked in front of your same-sex friends.
Originally Posted by OnlyTellsTruths View Post
Supposedly because it is more expensive. But, frankly, I don't technically buy that. It would be more expensive, but it wouldn't be that much more expensive. Definitely not anywhere near twice as expensive.

If it is a facility that provides lockers, the lockers would have to be on some type of carrousel system. So you could access your locker no matter which cubicle you are in.

If the facility does not have lockers it would be even cheaper.

So the only real other answer is, tradition.
Originally Posted by DreamingNaiad View Post
Or you could carry your stuff from the cubicle to the locker... We have a bench and hooks to rest your stuff on so you don't have to put it on the floor.
That is my preferred system, a communal both sexes area with lots of cubicals where people are expected to dress in privacy and then you take your clothes to a nearby locker. There is no nudity outside of a cubical. There are single cubicals but you also get larger ones for families who are OK about being nude in front of each other.

The showers and toilets are split into male and female.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:34 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Why is seeing a penis -or any other body part disturbing at all????
Because penises are the root of all evil.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:52 AM   #134
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No. That's "the love of money".

Rolfe.
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Old 16th November 2012, 10:58 AM   #135
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So money penises are right out, then? And it was such a good theme for a party!
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Old 16th November 2012, 11:50 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by DragonLady View Post
Why is seeing a penis -or any other body part disturbing at all????

I honestly don't get it. Without penises, there would be no children.... These parents/college admins/whoever sent a pack of small children into a locker room with adult strangers, knowing those strangers would be in various stages of undress.

I knew when I was three years old that sometimes people have odd body parts.

Would exposing a third breast be "mildly disturbing"? How about having a surgical scar? Being in the third trimester? Would seeing a navel inside out disturb little Mary? How about wounds? Will little Baby Jane have nightmares if she sees a recluse bite or a long row of sutures?

If those children are so small and so delicate and so fragile and have such refined sensibilities, why in hell did anyone allow them to enter a locker room filled with adult strangers?
This is absolutely ridiculous. Not sure what fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world, it IS a crime and should CONTINUE to be a crime for men to go showing their genitals off to little girls. Utterly disgusting, and it's quite a bit more disgusting that there are individuals on this very forum encouraging that kind of behavior.
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Old 16th November 2012, 11:57 AM   #137
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Some cultures do not distinguish between nudity and sexual activity, except in very narrowly defined circumstances. There is also some entrenched sexism that makes male nudity much more taboo than female nudity. A nude female is the victim of the lecherous observer, but a nude male is the perpetrator of an aggressive sexual act. Culture is, of course, full of stupid.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:00 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Some cultures do not distinguish between nudity and sexual activity, except in very narrowly defined circumstances. There is also some entrenched sexism that makes male nudity much more taboo than female nudity. A nude female is the victim of the lecherous observer, but a nude male is the perpetrator of an aggressive sexual act. Culture is, of course, full of stupid.
I don't know about other cultures, but in the one here in the United States, full grown men flashing their genitals to young girls is a crime.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:01 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
This is absolutely ridiculous. Not sure what fantasy world you live in, but here in the real world, it IS a crime and should CONTINUE to be a crime for men to go showing their genitals off to little girls. Utterly disgusting, and it's quite a bit more disgusting that there are individuals on this very forum encouraging that kind of behavior.
So that is why nudist clubs are illegal as well as nude beaches. Or it could be that it is rather context dependant.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:02 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
I don't know about other cultures, but in the one here in the United States, full grown men flashing their genitals to young girls is a crime.
Do you classify every possible instance of a child seeing a nude adult as a criminal act? Does it only apply if the child is female and the adult male?
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:05 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
I don't know about other cultures, but in the one here in the United States, full grown men flashing their genitals to young girls is a crime.
And yet taking a young girl to a nude beach is legal. That is because one is a form of non consensual sexual relations and the other is just being naked.

You will note that exposing himself to young boys is the same crime as well, instead of no big deal like you seem to be arguing.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:12 PM   #142
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In the sauna facility that I frequent, everyone sits, swims, and walks about with all body parts bobbing and dangling freely. People of all ages can see them, and nobody seems to take any notice, including the little children. I don't think the sauna bathers are all criminals.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:12 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
So acording to you, this person should be using the Men's Locker Room?
Well, I don't know about anyone else, but that would suit me just fine.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:24 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
I don't know about other cultures, but in the one here in the United States, full grown men flashing their genitals to young girls is a crime.
I am sure it is the same in many other countries, it is in the UK. However, it is not illegal for a young girl to accidentally see a naked man in circumstances where there is no intentional flashing by the male. In some countries nudity is not really an issue at all, depending on the circumstances. In the UK it is not acceptable at a public swimming pool.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:30 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by Femke View Post
In the sauna facility that I frequent, everyone sits, swims, and walks about with all body parts bobbing and dangling freely. People of all ages can see them, and nobody seems to take any notice, including the little children. I don't think the sauna bathers are all criminals.
The swimming pool/sauna I went to in the Hague was not nudie at all. Neither was one in Zurich. But other places have been, including a hotel in Salzburg where we were prepared to strip off, but as people heard us speaking they all got into their costumes or covered themselves with towels. I assumed it was because they associate us with being a country that does not do public nudity much.
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Old 16th November 2012, 12:34 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by Stomatopoda View Post
Why don't they just build one locker room with a bunch of locking cubicles to shower and change in? Then no one has to see anyone naked. I'll never understand the appeal of showering and hanging around naked in front of your same-sex friends.
You don't?

I do it daily after hot yoga and it rocks. I love the communal nudey showers, and I'm not a dyke. It's just girls together, dude.

On age... we have young girls of eight/nine upwards who shower with us after doing some of class. Kids over that age are allowed to come and do the second half of class if their parent/guardian is in the class. I think it's good that girls that age see grown women's bodies. They learn that most women don't look like the bikini-clad celebrities in the magazines.

I realise this is a bit off-topic from the OP, but we've drifted a bit.
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Old 16th November 2012, 01:36 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
So that is why nudist clubs are illegal as well as nude beaches. Or it could be that it is rather context dependant.
Context dependent. If you go to a nudist beach, you know exactly what type of thing you are going to see. If you go to a female locker room, you do not expect to see a grown mans penis.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 16th November 2012, 01:38 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Do you classify every possible instance of a child seeing a nude adult as a criminal act? Does it only apply if the child is female and the adult male?
No, I don't. I do however classify a male going into a female locker room and getting naked a criminal act (And vice versa). That is not an accident, it is intentional.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 16th November 2012, 01:40 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet taking a young girl to a nude beach is legal. That is because one is a form of non consensual sexual relations and the other is just being naked.

You will note that exposing himself to young boys is the same crime as well, instead of no big deal like you seem to be arguing.
Context dependent, see my response to your previous post.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 16th November 2012, 01:41 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
I am sure it is the same in many other countries, it is in the UK. However, it is not illegal for a young girl to accidentally see a naked man in circumstances where there is no intentional flashing by the male. In some countries nudity is not really an issue at all, depending on the circumstances. In the UK it is not acceptable at a public swimming pool.
I acknowledge that it is context dependent. Going into a member of the opposite sex's locker room and getting naked is intentional, and should be prosecuted as such.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 16th November 2012, 01:51 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by foxholeatheist View Post
Eh... Flame suit on.

Call me crazy... But I reckon that boys are boys and girls are girls and the difference between the two is not limited to genitals. I have been absolutely hounded on this forum for admitting that gender exists.

I can understand why a person would be physically one gender and 'feel' that they are another, that alone shows that gender is more than sexual organs.

But if you got the boy parts you go to the boys locker room. I don't see why this is a violation of his civil rights. If I, a boy inside and out, were to use the girls locker room I would be (and should be) prosecuted. But if I am a pre-op transgender it is suddenly OK? I don't get that. I think the girls were not out of line to say that they were made to feel uncomfortable.

Come on man, just use the boys locker room.



They are not man boobs. They are pecs.
Bolding mine. Yeah I have had the same issues. There are individuals on this very forum who believe that gender does not exist at all, and that everyone should just be showering together because it's not a big deal to them, so that means everyone else should think that way as well.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:08 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
Context dependent. If you go to a nudist beach, you know exactly what type of thing you are going to see. If you go to a female locker room, you do not expect to see a grown mans penis.
And you were not. You were seeing a grown womans penis.

And it clearly give lie to the idea that a girl seeing a penis is fundamentally illegal.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:14 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And you were not. You were seeing a grown womans penis.

And it clearly give lie to the idea that a girl seeing a penis is fundamentally illegal.
You are one of those individuals that refuses to acknowledge gender. So you think it's perfectly alright for any man to dress up as a woman and go into a womans locker room and walk around naked? This is acceptable behavior to you?
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:17 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
You are one of those individuals that refuses to acknowledge gender. So you think it's perfectly alright for any man to dress up as a woman and go into a womans locker room and walk around naked? This is acceptable behavior to you?
Pro-tip: genitals != gender.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:24 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
In some countries nudity is not really an issue at all, depending on the circumstances.
Really? Where are these countries?

Of course, "depending on the circumstances" covers a lot of ground. There are clothing optional places in the US where there's no issue either.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:38 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
You are one of those individuals that refuses to acknowledge gender. So you think it's perfectly alright for any man to dress up as a woman and go into a womans locker room and walk around naked? This is acceptable behavior to you?
Here is a tip, I acknowledged her gender. It is you who are refusing to.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:40 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Quad4_72 View Post
You are one of those individuals that refuses to acknowledge gender. So you think it's perfectly alright for any man to dress up as a woman and go into a womans locker room and walk around naked? This is acceptable behavior to you?
Was that what they were doing? I thought the girl caught sight of her dressing and there was no intention to expose the penis.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:45 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by Meadmaker View Post
Really? Where are these countries?

Of course, "depending on the circumstances" covers a lot of ground. There are clothing optional places in the US where there's no issue either.
The Northern Europeans are not so bothered. A friend who has run a few marathons in Germany has found communal showers were provided where many of both sexes stripped off. Then I was watching a new series with Michael Palin traveling around Brazil and some tribes there clearly have no issue with nudity.

There are still certain rules as such, like many hotels do not allow topless women inside, but are quite happy for them to lounge around the swimming pool.
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:46 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Here is a tip, I acknowledged her gender. It is you who are refusing to.
Ok, so you didn't answer the question. Do you believe it is alright for any male to dress up as a woman, claim he is a woman, and then go into a locker room and get naked?
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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Old 16th November 2012, 02:47 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
Was that what they were doing? I thought the girl caught sight of her dressing and there was no intention to expose the penis.
Doesn't matter. He was in a place that he shouldn't have been.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken
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